Need Help Definitive List of Comfort Meds for Opiate Detox/ log of fent detox.

[NY2soFlo]

That's a very good point and probably widely underestimated when navigating detox/WD.
Even more relevant when using daily pro-metabolic tactics like low-dose aspirin, caffeine with proper support, agmatine, theanine, Rhodiola, vitamin B1, nicotinamide.

I'm literally taking all of that except the NAD+. I can feel by blood sugar drop almost an hour or two after a big meal. The honey shots and honestly just small snacks smooth it out a bit between meals. I'm also trying to gain some weight back, so I'm eating everything good that I can.

 

[Allylbenzene]

I also don't want to get into benzos since this WD did come technically with its own mini Benzo detox (alongside mainly the fent). That is why I really made sure not to overuse the limited supply of (real) benzos I had. I took the valium taper as serious and smooth as I could. I know a little valium would help sleep but I've already crossed the bridge on that and have to just push through.

I listed some of the best OTC benzo alternatives here, you already know most of them.
I didn't mention muscimol or kava, but combined with magnolia they'd easily outperform valium imo.

I'm also quitting vaping too, although using a patch... so I don't think I'm feeling much negative from that, although who knows.

Nicotine does have several theraputic benefits btw, inline with the other things you're taking.

 

[NY2soFlo]

I listed some of the best OTC benzo alternatives here, you already know most of them.
I didn't mention muscimol or kava, but combined with magnolia they'd easily outperform valium imo.


Nicotine does have several theraputic benefits btw, inline with the other things you're taking.

I think I'm taking most of what you recommended- at least the bulk of it. Magnolia extract comes in tomorrow, so I'm very excited for that and for sleep. Hopefully. Today was 10x easier and more normal then any point of this detox. I almost completely attribute that to me sleeping decently last night. I do feel like I'm past most of the real WD symptoms- from whatever drug they're coming from. I feel like I'm at the point where I can push just a little harder and kind of power through early PAWS, as long as I have sleep on my side.

Also, I'm currently using a 21mg nicotine patch, which is one of the highest doses. So between that and the 8-10 baby hits I take off my vape (vs 100 per day).. I'm getting enough nicotine to be seeing any type of meaningful WD right now. Even the little hits I take just aren't gratifying anymore. I doubt I'll even be hitting it at all a week from now.

 

[NY2soFlo]

Have you considered pharmaceutical psilocybin or pharmaceutical ibogaine?

Nope. This unfortunately isn't my first time through it, and I've tried and eliminated most other paths through it. Just detoxing straight up and fucking glad for it.

 

[Allylbenzene]

That's a very good point and probably widely underestimated when navigating detox/WD.
Even more relevant when using daily pro-metabolic tactics like low-dose aspirin, caffeine with proper support, agmatine, theanine, Rhodiola, vitamin B1, nicotinamide.

I'm literally taking all of that except the NAD+.

To put this into context, supporting and repairing metabolic function is key to successful drug detox and long-term recovery. That's partly because it addresses the motivating factors for drug use.

I'm currently using a 21mg nicotine patch, which is one of the highest doses. So between that and the 8-10 baby hits I take off my vape

A nicotine patch is ideal since it doesn't contain any pyrazines which "might be used to enhance tobacco addiction".

https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/tobaccocontrol/25/4/444.full.pdf

...Addition of pyrazines to electronic cigarettes should be regulated, because they act synergistically with nicotine to increase product appeal, ease smoking initiation, and discourage cessation.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6141037/

 

[NY2soFlo]

To put this into context, supporting and repairing metabolic function is key to successful drug detox and long-term recovery. That's partly because it addresses the motivating factors for drug use.


A nicotine patch is ideal since it doesn't contain any pyrazines which "...might be used to enhance tobacco addiction".

https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/tobaccocontrol/25/4/444.full.pdf

And that's all exactly why I want to kick the vape now too. When I switched from smoking to vaping my lungs definitely got better, but my nicotine intake went up 100 fold. And god knows what's in these disposable vapes. Whatever is in them, I was getting a full dose of lol.

 

[barberX]

Thank you! Black seed oil is something I keep seeing come up. I need to look into it. In terms of buying any potential remedies, I’m open to all. Luckily I’ve progressed to a point where I can afford to get a couple things for my comfort.

I had a cbd vape last time and I needed to hit it a lot but it definitely helped. I’m not looking to be high so cbd is attractive in that sense.

Also, I’ve never tried any of the real “Z drugs” for sleep, so thank you. I believe generic ambien is Zolpidem.


And lastly (to your second post), here’s the thing… I got precips after waiting over 72 hours (it was really like at the end of DAY 3). That is something that scarred me for life and if I was going to add even a small (say 3-4 day) sub taper I would wait until day 4/5 now out of safety. My thought is, if I’m already at day 4/5 I mind as well just ride it out instead of prolonging it a little bit softening the blow. I have time here, but for many reasons I’d rather just bang through this fast and hard. I respond decently well to comfort meds. Also, I know the doc will end up writing me a script for subs regardless (he did last time). So if I get to day 5 and am still getting worse then I may reconsider then, I know enough to know my feelings may change by then lol. Either way, I’ll test the waters first with a mini dose, if I’m clear of precips I’d taper something like 2-2-1-1-.5. I just don’t want any surprises on day 10-12 when the subs clear and I’m back to the shit.

Why not use oxycodone to soften the fall? If you dont stay on it anyways.

 

[NY2soFlo]

Why not use oxycodone to soften the fall? If you dont stay on it anyways.

honestly, I never really considered it bc 90% of pills around here are pressed, and I am so far removed from the oxy world that I don’t know anyone with real scripts. All I know is I’ve been 2-3 days into sickness before and 3 30s didn’t even touch it.

 

[NY2soFlo]

General Update: 19 days clean.

Really the only thing worth mentioning is the insomnia. It happens every time at this stage for me. When inpatient, this gets attention and by now I'd have gotten some type of sleep med. From home- I'm delaying on going back to the doc for meds, but I do have access to others supps and am obviously more comfortable. My magnolia bark extract came in yesterday... I took 300mg (90% pure) + 600mg Theanine + Passionflower extract.... and it seemingly had no effect. Laid around awake all night, sleeping briefly between 2:30am-4:30am.

I'm going to up it to 450mg of the magnolia extract tonight. Between me feeling decent enough to work from home, and the small workouts and good eating, I thought id be able to push through the insomnia stage faster. Not feeling super confident about that atm... but you have to sleep eventually, right?

EDIT: I was able to get a script for Ambien. Picking it up today- will DEFF be using tonight. I usually am good to sleep by 30-40 days in, so I figure I'll take as needed for the next 7-10 days then taper off. I haven't taken an Ambien in years- what's the normal dose?

 

[Allylbenzene]

What's the latest time you're having caffeine, and what dose?

I took 300mg (90% pure) + 600mg Theanine + Passionflower extract.... and it seemingly had no effect.
...
I'm going to up it to 450mg of the magnolia extract tonight.

You could jump to 600mg of the magnolia extract.
Are you taking that combo on an empty stomach?

 

[NY2soFlo]

What's the latest time you're having caffeine, and what dose?


You could jump to 600mg of the magnolia extract.
Are you taking that combo on an empty stomach?

Last caffeine dose is my pre workout around 5pm. I go to bed at around midnight/1am. Granted my body chemistry is obviously different now (vs. 19 days ago), but I've always had a pretty decent tolerance to caffeine. Just a few weeks ago I'd have up to 600mg some nights and still pass right out. Now, I'm barely taking 150 pre workout and that feels more then enough.

I'll probably take the 300mg again tonight WITH 5-7.5mg Ambien. I'm done with playing around here, I need to sleep tonight. I plan to use the ambien on as short of a timescale as possible. If it works, I'm going to take it 3-4 nights just to catch up on sleep. I actually feel great physically- It feels like everything negative going on is now more so from sleep- rather then WD. If I sleep well for a few nights and catch up, I'm fully willing to experiment with different doses of my current (non-Rx) sleep supps. One or two isolated sleepless nights are totally different then 6 or more consistently.

I'm taking it on as empty of a stomach as possible. At least 2.5-3 hours after my last food of the night.

 

[Allylbenzene]

You'll notice I didn't mention Ambien in my post, by all means take it!

Last caffeine dose is my pre workout around 5pm. I go to bed at around midnight/1am. Granted my body chemistry is obviously different now (vs. 19 days ago), but I've always had a pretty decent tolerance to caffeine. Just a few weeks ago I'd have up to 600mg some nights and still pass right out. Now, I'm barely taking 150 pre workout and that feels more then enough.

150mg caffeine at 5pm is pretty late imo. It's a metabolic stimulant remember.

Symptoms to expect when you do coffee right are calmness, focus, motivation, warmth, and stable energy. (source)

 

[NY2soFlo]

You'll notice I didn't mention Ambien in my post, by all means take it!

150mg caffeine at 5pm is pretty late imo. It's a metabolic stimulant remember.

I know... but I'm just an evening workout person. I suppose any thoughts I have on caffeine and sleeping should also be considering the fact I was doing fent all day and night. Quite the sleep aid.

 

[Allylbenzene]

I know... but I'm just an evening workout person. I suppose any thoughts I have on caffeine and sleeping should also be considering the fact I was doing fent all day and night. Quite the sleep aid.

IIRC you're using caffeine tablets right? Have you thought about using 50mg sublingual for an instant kick?
I used to do this with caffeine powder many years ago.

Remember that caffeine isn't your average stimulant. eg Amphetamine will wear off after x hours but caffeine doesn't work like that.

 

[NY2soFlo]

IIRC you're using caffeine tablets right? Have you thought about using 50mg sublingual for an instant kick?
I used to do this with caffeine powder many years ago.

Remember that caffeine isn't your average stimulant. eg Amphetamine will wear off after x hours but caffeine doesn't work like that.

I do have caffeine tabs, but thats not what I use. I generally just make fresh espresso or measured portions of energy drinks/PWO. I usually pair it with the b complex and its a good mix. Never tried sublingually.

 

[Allylbenzene]

When do you take the B complex?
[edit]
Just read your earlier post, you said B complex @ AM.

Theanine (200mg per pill) 200-400mg with my caffeine and honey. Usually around 11am and 5-6pm.

If you're taking 150mg caffeine at ~5pm then definitely pair it with at least 400mg theanine.

 

[NY2soFlo]

When do you take the B complex?
[edit]
Just read your earlier post, you said B complex @ AM.

If you're taking 150mg caffeine at ~5pm then definitely pair it with at least 400mg theanine.

I do, the only problem is that the evening caffeine is via a preworkout. So sure it’s better than a stomach full of food, but theanine is probably still competing with the decent doses of certain aminos in the pwo.

In other news, I tired myself out as much as possible yesterday, and took 5mg ambien right as I was going to bed (stayed up a bit later then normal too since I could sleep in)… and got a SOLID 7 hours last night. Goddamn needed. I’ll probably take the next 2 nights so I wake up full and rested on Monday. I’ll take Monday off and see what happens without it. Very conscious of not wanting to become dependent on something readily available to me. Rx wise, that is.

 

[NY2soFlo]

General Update: Last night I folded and got a bag. I did half and flushed it, slept like a baby, and here I am this morning. I'm not happy with myself- I really don't think I wanted to get high, rather just knew there was only one thing that would help me get a night of sleep. I've tried cocktails of OTC sleep supplements, Rx Meds, smoking weed, tiring myself out as much as I can before bed.... nothing has been substantially helping. I've had a few "decent" nights of sleep but they have been few and far between.

So- moving forward. I expect I may feel worse off for a few days after this (we'll see how today progresses... its 8:30am rn). I'm hoping that after over 3 weeks off everything that one small use wont set me back too far. Either way, as I see it, there isn't any choice. I'm going to have to just keep pushing, whether this extends things out a lot or not. Physically, I've been feeling almost fully back, energy is improving, not tired and stuck in bed or on the couch. Looking at the biggest issue here- sleep- I'm going to just use this Ambien and Herbal cocktail mentioned above and take sleeping as seriously as I can. I believe if I'm sleeping at least decently, consistently, then I'm addressing a major weakpoint.

I'm also going to a meeting tonight. I've gone to a couple random ones over the last week or two, but tonight I'm meeting with a few people I know. I'm hoping to get looped in a bit. Regardless, based on my life experience dealing with recovery and trying to get/stay clean, I know for me this is the really the best shot. I resisted meetings for a long time and still am not fully on board. But the truth is, therapy won't do it, living well and being mindful of my addiction won't do it, living well and pretending I'm normal won't do it. I need to be looped in with other people who are also doing it... at least for now and the foreseeable future.

The fight continues, I truly, deeply do not want to use or have anything to do with that life. I'm in a spot now where I can really start living my life well if I stay away from everything. I wish willpower was enough to lean on, and no matter how much willpower I have in the coming days, I know better then to rely on that. It can obviously change fast. As it did last night. For now I need to be stubborn and have tunnel vision and just get through the next few days/weeks and build up some time. Everything gets easier once you rack of some legit time.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

I'm sure this has been mentioned but DXM (with or without the Tylenol and Benadryl) all three may be helpful depending on if you are using vic's, hydro/acet combos in the taper

 

[NY2soFlo]

I'm sure this has been mentioned but DXM (with or without the Tylenol and Benadryl) all three may be helpful depending on if you are using vic's, hydro/acet combos in the taper

Thanks for the suggestion... I've tried DXM a few times (years ago) and while it helped some WD symptoms it also made me feel kind of worse. I'm not tapering anything- I stopped fent CT and then did a small 5 day sub taper several days into WD. Since then, I've used nothing other than Rx comfort meds, and OTC supplements (aimed at restoring Dopamine and GABA functioning). Really, everything was going extremely well, as I was expecting to get hit pretty hard with WD but it was relatively OK for what it was, and compared to past detoxes.

It really all just comes down to me sleeping. If I sleep, I can function through the day. I do what I have to do, I eat well, I'll go to the gym, and all those things have always helped me really power on through PAWS. Again, outside of the insomnia, I was feeling pretty damn good for just over 3 weeks.