Supplements Supplements that increase recovery time for BJJ/MMA

[Mycophile]

So, I do Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and also sometimes cross train in other arts (wrestling, boxing, MMA, etc) and I'm 44 and I've had quite a few injuries. I've torn my ACLs 3 times (left twice, right once) and had surgery all 3 times, I've torn a right wrist ligament, and I have cervical disk disease which I guess essentially means that discs in my neck are worn out so I get pain in my neck and left arm whenever I have a flare up. I've done TONS of physical therapy for these injuries, and I continue to do neck exercises 3-5 days a week and leg exercises 1-2 days a week.

A few days ago I had a flare up of my CDD because someone cranked on my neck too hard during wrestling/BJJ training, and my neck and left arm and left pec have been hurting for days. I was talking with my teacher about different things that can increase recovery time and was wondering people's thoughts on the following:

1) generally speaking, what supplements/drugs do people here think would help recovery time from hard workouts and injuries without having too many negative side effects and without having negative interactions with the medications I take which are prozac (SSRI) and Klonopin??

2) What are people's opinions on Bp-c 157? I know this is a peptide and can be beneficial (some sites even see it can have an antidepressant effect) and most sites seem to say that it MIGHT have interactions with SSRIs and/or benzos. However, none of these seem to say that it specifically does have negative interactions with them or even that they interact for sure.

1A) Has anyone here tried it? 1B) If so, how did you like it? 1C) Does it significantly reduce recovery time from hard workouts? 1D) And do people think it truly has negative interactions with SSRIs?

3) Other peptides: Are there any other peptides that might increase recovery time, and if so, which?

4) Alpha Methylene Blue: I have some of this but I've been afraid to try it because I heard it has negative interactions with SSRIs. 4A) Does anyone know if it's truly dangerous to take it with SSRIs or won't work well with them? Is it one of those things where they say not to mix it with certain things but it's actually fine?

4B) And overall, what benefits do people notice from Alpha Methylene blue?

5) TRT: So, everyone knows that it can increase recovery time depending on the dose. I have no idea what my test levels are. One person I know who uses it says that many doctors are willing to prescribe it if your levels are significantly below 900 and that they usually want to get your levels between 900 and 1,100. I'm reluctant as is to even try TRT and would not use actual steroids.

5A) So, do people here think TRT is worth it? 5B) Do you think it actually can lead to cancer, or is that unlikely? 5C) Have people found it significantly improves recovery time?

Cause when it comes to the world of BJJ/MMA/combat sports, SOOO many guys in their 40s and older that train are on TRT. However, I would be concerned about the following:

1) I had high cholesterol and was able to get it normal by losing weight, but my doctor said if it goes back up (it shouldn't unless I gain weight) I would need statins (obviously I don't want to need them), and I know steroids raise cholesterol, but I'm not sure about TRT.

2) I hear that it might be possible for TRT/steroids/test in general in too high a dosage to sometimes lead to various cancers. 5D) Is this really a significant risk with TRT doses at no higher than 1,100mgs?

3) Of course I'd be concerned about somehow losing access to TRT injections if I became totally dependent and somehow couldn't get them. 5E) Could that lead to death or serious complications if someone was dependent on it and couldn't get it? And how likely is that to happen?

My neurodiverse way of organizing things has me numbering and lettering the different questions here to hopefully make answering easier, but if people only want to answer one or two then that's fine. And I'd especially like to hear from anyone who actually does martial arts and who has seen the effects that these PEDs have on their recovery time and overall performance.

Thanks

 

[Voxide]

I’m bumping this to give a special shout out to 10mg of MK677

Do your own research. Ancillaries are cheap and sides aren’t hard to manage with the right protocol, mainly blood sugar related, but.

 

[Genetic Freak]

Maybe look into Molecular Hydrogen...

 

[Deleted member 290563]

Unless you’re genetically gifted 44 is a bit old to be doing boxing and mma and ppl
Cranking your already damaged neck. Is it really worth being in pain all the time and potentially being crippled in 5-10 more years?


Like do you really love these sports that bad are are you just doing them to stay in shape and because they are trendy rn?

 

[jveiojajoivioedsac]

So, I do Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and also sometimes cross train in other arts (wrestling, boxing, MMA, etc) and I'm 44 and I've had quite a few injuries. I've torn my ACLs 3 times (left twice, right once) and had surgery all 3 times, I've torn a right wrist ligament, and I have cervical disk disease which I guess essentially means that discs in my neck are worn out so I get pain in my neck and left arm whenever I have a flare up. I've done TONS of physical therapy for these injuries, and I continue to do neck exercises 3-5 days a week and leg exercises 1-2 days a week.

A few days ago I had a flare up of my CDD because someone cranked on my neck too hard during wrestling/BJJ training, and my neck and left arm and left pec have been hurting for days. I was talking with my teacher about different things that can increase recovery time and was wondering people's thoughts on the following:

1) generally speaking, what supplements/drugs do people here think would help recovery time from hard workouts and injuries without having too many negative side effects and without having negative interactions with the medications I take which are prozac (SSRI) and Klonopin??

2) What are people's opinions on Bp-c 157? I know this is a peptide and can be beneficial (some sites even see it can have an antidepressant effect) and most sites seem to say that it MIGHT have interactions with SSRIs and/or benzos. However, none of these seem to say that it specifically does have negative interactions with them or even that they interact for sure.

1A) Has anyone here tried it? 1B) If so, how did you like it? 1C) Does it significantly reduce recovery time from hard workouts? 1D) And do people think it truly has negative interactions with SSRIs?

3) Other peptides: Are there any other peptides that might increase recovery time, and if so, which?

4) Alpha Methylene Blue: I have some of this but I've been afraid to try it because I heard it has negative interactions with SSRIs. 4A) Does anyone know if it's truly dangerous to take it with SSRIs or won't work well with them? Is it one of those things where they say not to mix it with certain things but it's actually fine?

4B) And overall, what benefits do people notice from Alpha Methylene blue?

5) TRT: So, everyone knows that it can increase recovery time depending on the dose. I have no idea what my test levels are. One person I know who uses it says that many doctors are willing to prescribe it if your levels are significantly below 900 and that they usually want to get your levels between 900 and 1,100. I'm reluctant as is to even try TRT and would not use actual steroids.

5A) So, do people here think TRT is worth it? 5B) Do you think it actually can lead to cancer, or is that unlikely? 5C) Have people found it significantly improves recovery time?

Cause when it comes to the world of BJJ/MMA/combat sports, SOOO many guys in their 40s and older that train are on TRT. However, I would be concerned about the following:

1) I had high cholesterol and was able to get it normal by losing weight, but my doctor said if it goes back up (it shouldn't unless I gain weight) I would need statins (obviously I don't want to need them), and I know steroids raise cholesterol, but I'm not sure about TRT.

2) I hear that it might be possible for TRT/steroids/test in general in too high a dosage to sometimes lead to various cancers. 5D) Is this really a significant risk with TRT doses at no higher than 1,100mgs?

3) Of course I'd be concerned about somehow losing access to TRT injections if I became totally dependent and somehow couldn't get them. 5E) Could that lead to death or serious complications if someone was dependent on it and couldn't get it? And how likely is that to happen?

My neurodiverse way of organizing things has me numbering and lettering the different questions here to hopefully make answering easier, but if people only want to answer one or two then that's fine. And I'd especially like to hear from anyone who actually does martial arts and who has seen the effects that these PEDs have on their recovery time and overall performance.

Thanks

Maybe stop messing up your one body and get a less disastrous hobby?

 

[Mycophile]

Unless you’re genetically gifted 44 is a bit old to be doing boxing and mma and ppl
Cranking your already damaged neck. Is it really worth being in pain all the time and potentially being crippled in 5-10 more years?


Like do you really love these sports that bad are are you just doing them to stay in shape and because they are trendy rn?

I really love them that badly. I'll always train BJJ regardless of whether I try other combat sports. I won't likely be "crippled in 5-10 more years or in pain all the time." I will get more pain as I get older for sure, but what's done is done, so I've already accepted that. I may as well get as much out of the ride as I can cause the wheels are already torn up lol. I CONSTANTLY do physical therapy and my neck and body are holding up quite well now to training. I wasn't when I first wrote this post, but now I'm doing well. I get tired faster than a lot of the young guys, but that's probably just my age.

And "because they are trendy right now?" hahahhaha. You clearly don't realize how long I've been doing this. I've been training BJJ on and off since age 16 in 1996 and saw the first UFC live at age 13. I was involved in this shit LONG before it was trendy or anyone knew what the fuck it was.

I'm beginning to understand from the last couple comments that people here don't get it.

Oh well, this is a drug forum and not a sports/martial arts forum.

 

[Mycophile]

Maybe stop messing up your one body and get a less disastrous hobby?

How about NOT. I just got my black belt from a very esteemed trainer because I DIDN'T quit after decades of training, and it's one of the biggest achievements of my life, if not the biggest. And I still give a lot of the younger guys hell. Also, it's not a "hobby" it's a passion. There are ways to still train but train smarter, but you clearly wouldn't understand if you've never done something like this.

 

[Mycophile]

Maybe look into Molecular Hydrogen...

You mean just that hydrogen water stuff? Does that really help?

Now I'm more interested in peptides like BPC-157 and sermorelin because my friends, who are former MMA fighters and BJJ black belts, have gotten MASSIVE recovery results from them.

However, one of them also says he thinks that using them for too long could cause cancer so he doesn't use them for very long.

1) Do you have any opinion on the effectiveness of peptides for things like recovery time and cardio? 2) And do you think they can cause cancer if taken for too long?

 

[Delam]

Congrats on your black belt from a 51 year old purple belt that quit a bunch of times but always came back to it. You must be one resilient fucker. I generally favor the weed/kratom option after I train but that's just to help me relax in the evenings. For speedier recovery i'm not sure. I've tried the peptides after a couple of injuries but not sure if they helped or not. Like most practitioners my age I've toyed with the idea of testosterone but have the same concerns as you with regards to a legitimate supply. I'm just careful about the amount I'm training and who I roll with. Not keen on random 100kg white belts that I don't know (I'm 70kg).

You're right though. People that have no experience of our beautiful, complex and difficult art have no idea how addictive and compelling it is. Yes I have injuries but at 51 I'm still significantly fitter than I was in my 20's and definitely fitter than 90% of other blokes my age.

Oh and extreme kudos for actually being at the first UFC. That was a game changing night and to actually see it first hand must have been insane.

 

[Mycophile]

Congrats on your black belt from a 51 year old purple belt that quit a bunch of times but always came back to it. You must be one resilient fucker. I generally favor the weed/kratom option after I train but that's just to help me relax in the evenings. For speedier recovery i'm not sure. I've tried the peptides after a couple of injuries but not sure if they helped or not. Like most practitioners my age I've toyed with the idea of testosterone but have the same concerns as you with regards to a legitimate supply. I'm just careful about the amount I'm training and who I roll with. Not keen on random 100kg white belts that I don't know (I'm 70kg).

You're right though. People that have no experience of our beautiful, complex and difficult art have no idea how addictive and compelling it is. Yes I have injuries but at 51 I'm still significantly fitter than I was in my 20's and definitely fitter than 90% of other blokes my age.

Oh and extreme kudos for actually being at the first UFC. That was a game changing night and to actually see it first hand must have been insane.

Oh I wasn't AT the first UFC, but I did see it live when it first happened, which most can't say. If I was really there that would have been INSANE. I did get to take numerous seminars with Royce and a few other Gracies in the early days.

Thanks for what you said, and that's awesome that you are a purple belt and still at it at 51. We are part of a unique group to not only train and be higher level belts but to still be doing it at our ages. These people just don't get it, and it's funny how many on this forum (not necessarily the PED forum but overall) are willing to take risks in terms of what they put into their bodies but tell them about other NON-drug related risks you are taking with your body that can have all sorts of rewards (and also very real costs...) and they are like "oh my god, how could you do that?!! You should QUIT!!" LOL. I'd like to tell some of them that whatever highs they experience from their drug of choice PALES in comparison to when you do REALLY well on the mat or in a competition or get a high level belt because what you are doing is an actual ACCOMPLISHMENT. No one is ever going to look back on all the drugs they did and think "what an achievement that was!!" lol.

Anyways, I also do love weed and Kratom. How regularly do you take Kratom? Do you ever take it while training? Are you dependent? Cause I love it but I think training on it at this point isn't so safe because you aren't as aware of what your body is doing in terms of what could injure it cause it's such a strong painkiller. You really want to be aware of what your body is feeling so you don't try to tough out any submissions. And once I go into WD I don't feel like training cause it will mess with my sleep. Also, we know that weed and Kratom just MASK the pain and don't really help overall (well, weed can help with arthritis and SOME people find it helps with lung capacity but I don't).

What country are you from? Just curious. I'm from the U.S.

Also, when you tried the peptides: 1) which ones did you try? 2) did you get them from a doctor? 3) were you injured at the time?

Lets stay in touch so we can maybe figure out some stuff that might help us and also just in general cause we are both older guys into BJJ. I'm following you now and you can follow me if you want.

 

[Foreigner]

I've used BPC-157 and TB-500 together, as a mixed injection, injected at the point of injury 2x weekly. It was not for disc-related injury, which I don't think they can fix, but it does help with peripheral healing and anti-inflammation. I used it for 4 weeks to heal a severe (non-disc related) lower back injury. I think this combo is really the best peptide based intervention currently out there.

Anabolic steroids are obviously good for recovery too, but unlike the above peptides, they require long-term commitment, endocrine disruption, and other risk factors. You also need a base of at least TRT otherwise there's no point, and TRT itself is a long-term commitment that you'd have to sort out before adding any other anabolics. On the other hand, you can use peptides without any need for hormone interventions. The downside to peptides is storage and temperature. They degrade easily from heat or agitation. Dropping a vial on the floor can break the proteins in the vial, reducing the quality per dose.

The issue with anabolics though is that their neurotransmitter effects in the brain often blunt the pain effect, such that you mistakenly think you are stronger when really you are just not fully registering injury. I have experienced this several times and the damage was not apparent until coming off cycle. So even if you experience a reduction in symptoms while using androgens, you can't necessarily take that as a sign that you can significantly increase resistance or duration of physical activities. What androgens do help with though, is recovery.

Echoing some above sentiments, I think a chronic cervical injury + the type of sport you're doing = moderate to high risk. It's your choice obviously. I think peptides would just be damage control. You should prob work closely with a chiro or physiotherapist on a regular basis to keep your neck conditioned. You do not want to mess around with the cervical spine. If you start getting weakness or pins/needles down your arms, re-assess your plans.

 

[Mycophile]

I've used BPC-157 and TB-500 together, as a mixed injection, injected at the point of injury 2x weekly. It was not for disc-related injury, which I don't think they can fix, but it does help with peripheral healing and anti-inflammation. I used it for 4 weeks to heal a severe (non-disc related) lower back injury. I think this combo is really the best peptide based intervention currently out there.

Anabolic steroids are obviously good for recovery too, but unlike the above peptides, they require long-term commitment, endocrine disruption, and other risk factors. You also need a base of at least TRT otherwise there's no point, and TRT itself is a long-term commitment that you'd have to sort out before adding any other anabolics. On the other hand, you can use peptides without any need for hormone interventions. The downside to peptides is storage and temperature. They degrade easily from heat or agitation. Dropping a vial on the floor can break the proteins in the vial, reducing the quality per dose.

The issue with anabolics though is that their neurotransmitter effects in the brain often blunt the pain effect, such that you mistakenly think you are stronger when really you are just not fully registering injury. I have experienced this several times and the damage was not apparent until coming off cycle. So even if you experience a reduction in symptoms while using androgens, you can't necessarily take that as a sign that you can significantly increase resistance or duration of physical activities. What androgens do help with though, is recovery.

Echoing some above sentiments, I think a chronic cervical injury + the type of sport you're doing = moderate to high risk. It's your choice obviously. I think peptides would just be damage control. You should prob work closely with a chiro or physiotherapist on a regular basis to keep your neck conditioned. You do not want to mess around with the cervical spine. If you start getting weakness or pins/needles down your arms, re-assess your plans.

I work relatively closely with a physical therapist (not sure about physio-therapists but I think a lot of chiropractic stuff is BS) and I do exercises regularly (3-5 days a week, so more days than not) for my neck muscles that keep me strong. He believes it's ok for me to do BJJ, and no offense, but I think he knows more about this than most people here. I mean I DO think he'd agree that doing this CAN also irritate the area and you have to balance that risk with your enjoyment and train around the injury, but I'm not stopping. Yes, peptides or even physical therapy is probably mostly damage control. But I've been doing this most of my life, and it's one of the few things that gives me joy, so to stop now...just NO. If I am going to make it worth having these injuries then that means continuing to do the sport I love. And honestly, I know my injuries inside and out from the perspective of an athlete doing these sports, so no one hearing this from an outside vantage point can understand.

I will always have SOME damage, so I may as well make it worthwhile, which means continuing to train. If anything ever got worse then of course I'd re-assess and talk to my physical therapist and other doctors (the doctor I see for my neck is, interestingly, also himself a BJJ blackbelt), but really, you've got people significantly older than me in the BJJ/MMA/Martial Arts communities who continue to train even into relatively old age with MUCH worse injuries. It's something people here cannot understand.

Also, I THINK that surgery can heal SOME of the damage, but my doctors have told me that I'm not at that point and that I don't want to get to that point because that requires a shit load of rehab and pain. But I'm doing pretty much fine at the moment training a few days a week. The flare up that I was talking about in this thread ENDED MONTHS AGO. I took anti-inflammatories, changed up my PT routine, and I've been back to training for months with few issues.

What I am curious about is, does peptide use cause cancer if it's done too much over the years?

Cause my instructor is MUCH more into health than I am (I mean, he's straight edge essentially) so he's more cautious, but he had a pec injury that was bothering him constantly and he said after a month of BPC-157 it was like he'd never had the injury at all, but he says that it can cause cancer if used for too long so that's why he's not allowing himself to.

Is he correct? Is there evidence to suggest that peptides can cause cancer?

 

[Allylbenzene]

Anabolic steroids are obviously good for recovery too, but unlike the above peptides, they require long-term commitment, endocrine disruption, and other risk factors. You also need a base of at least TRT otherwise there's no point, and TRT itself is a long-term commitment that you'd have to sort out before adding any other anabolics.

I saw your comment and thought i'd expand on it. There is a certain stigma associated with anabolic hormones but seeing them in a different light might change the definition of what is deemed anabolic.
In essence, the best anabolic substances are all potent anti-glucocorticoids (glucocorticoid antagonists). They prevent the catabolic action of glucocorticoids, implying that anabolic substances are anti-catabolic. This interpretation opens up a whole new set of anabolic substances since anything anti-cortisol/anti-adrenaline or that boosts pregnenolone/progesterone synthesis is anti-catabolic by definition.