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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Opioids kratom tolerance?

That's insane dosages... this is why this shit is being banned and scheduled. If an opioid naive person took 60mg tablet that could land them in the freakin hospital man (not seriously, but it could, that's a huge fuckin dose)

This arms race from these companies is ridiculous and irresponsible. That and naming your shit "Roxy" or "Perks"... ffs man
They are high doses. I take 480mg-600mg when I want something from them.

The Roxy name is stupid. I have a large Rx for Roxicodone 30mg so it is even funnier to me.

That is the thing about 7-OH, it is great for once and a while dosing. There is no way these 7-OH products would work for 15 years straight like Roxicodone does for me.

This something that should get out there as much as possible to people about 7-OH looking to fill the "opioid vacuum" from lack there of pain killers.
 
I have been taking 4-4.5 grams of Kratom once a day, 5 days a week for several years now. I have had no need or desire to increase my dosage.

I would miss it but am probably more dependent on my morning coffee.
 
The brand "Opia" is the best quality 7-OH sold in head shops/smoke shops. It is the only brand I will buy. It is best used for the 1st opioid dose of the day as it loses it punch if taken all day long.

If I had to switch from my daily Roxicodone and Methadone dependence to 7-OH, I would be extremely broke and have increased pain. It is too overpriced for me even buying it by the case (10qty).

I take the 7-OH 2-3 times a month in the 120mg-180mg dosage range in one sitting to achieve the feeling I am after. It does make for a pleasant 2-3hr experience.

Taking both 7-OH & normal Kratom powder capsules is the best way to take it.

There is a MOD here on the forum that buys the 7-OH online that comes in a crystalized powder. He says it is the best way to indulge.
AS I stated above, I have been taking 4.5 grams of Kratom once a day 5 days a week for a long time with no problems. need to increase. These Opia pills are like a real deal opiod (Oxy, etc.) so I want to avoid them, correct? Then again, I only take a real opiod once a week. Would it be safe to take an Opia...or half of one once a week?
 
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AS I stated above, I have been taking 4.5 grams of Kratom once a day 5 days a week for a long time with no problems. need to increase. These Opia pills are like a real deal opiod (Oxy, etc.) so I want to avoid them, correct? Then again, I only take a real opiod once a week. Would it be safe to take an Opia...or half of one once a week?
It's ok to take once a week or whenever you really need it for breakthrough pain. Do not take it frequently, because it will ruin your tolerance and regular kratom will stop working for you. Honestly, I'd generally avoid it if I was you.

The opia pills are very strong. You should only take ~5mg your first time... maybe 10mg. You really don't need more than that until you start building tolerance towards 7oh.

Tread carefully. It's not kratom. It's closer to a real opioid.

Also, its best to combine it with your regular dose of kratom powder.
 
I also found Kratom to be very addictive and tolerance builds quickly. IME the ability to attain any sort of euphoria from kratom lasts about 2 weeks. After 2 weeks of daily or frequent use, the euphoria goes away for the most part and it becomes more of a maintenance thing. I have found Kratom to be horribly difficult to get off of, even more so than morphine. I am actually on Suboxone right now due to Kratom use. I have tried SO many times to taper off of kratom and I've never been able to. I completely lack the ability to control myself enough to follow a strict dosing schedule. This isn't the first time that I've had to get on Suboxone maintenance due to Kratom. I've struggled with Kratom addiction since I was 20 and I'm now 31. I don't think badly of kratom. I don't think it's evil and I believe that it should remain legal. I just wish that more people were aware of just how addictive that it can be before trying it.
 
It's ok to take once a week or whenever you really need it for breakthrough pain. Do not take it frequently, because it will ruin your tolerance and regular kratom will stop working for you. Honestly, I'd generally avoid it if I was you.

The opia pills are very strong. You should only take ~5mg your first time... maybe 10mg. You really don't need more than that until you start building tolerance towards 7oh.

Tread carefully. It's not kratom. It's closer to a real opioid.

Also, its best to combine it with your regular dose of kratom powder.
So 5 mg of Opia is like 10 grams of Kratom? I saw the link posted and the testing site where the good ones test at 27 mgs. On one hand you are probably right, I should not mess with it. On the other hand I have had 35 real 30 mg Oxy's for about a year now, the same with about 200 fent Mexican blues. I've had a couple of bottles of Tramadol for 2 years....I had another bottle that last me nearly 3 years.

I have a good track record with opioids but I know that that can change quickly.
 
It's ok to take once a week or whenever you really need it for breakthrough pain. Do not take it frequently, because it will ruin your tolerance and regular kratom will stop working for you. Honestly, I'd generally avoid it if I was you.

The opia pills are very strong. You should only take ~5mg your first time... maybe 10mg. You really don't need more than that until you start building tolerance towards 7oh.

Tread carefully. It's not kratom. It's closer to a real opioid.

Also, its best to combine it with your regular dose of kratom powder.
New development. It seems I have long Covid. Kratom makes me feel much better, but when I cough I get extremely nauseated, especially if I had some kratom. I normally take 4.5 grams at night and it helps a lot but tonight I took less than 3.5 and got nauseated when I coughed. I bought some robitussin, hopefully that will help. Of course Oxy is the best for a cough, but I took one Saturday night (Its Tuesday...) so can't take one.

This long Covid sucks. I had to do just regular sets at the gym tonight, I usually superset. I am just so tired. I was able to handle 50 lb dumbbells for 14 reps on curls, 100 lbs on reverse curls for 14 reps.

So I bought $120 worth of the Opia, the Strawberries which tested well. I think I got 20 pills. What is the equivalency on those? If I did not take any Kratom, is 1/4 of the 30 mg tabs like 5 grams of Kratom?
 
Well, what the hell. I figured I'd get some oh7 before it got banned. It's on order. I'm just trying to figure out just how strong it is. I know how powder kratom is, I've done it pretty often, this just sort of seems like a way get a higher dose of kraton without all the nausea. And it doesn't have the other alkaloids that the leaf has, which have some sort of hard-to-quantify effects. So that's different.
Honestly, I'm not sure what the point is if I'm not actually looking for a huge high or pain relief. I have pretty minimal kratom tolerance. And I haven't even been enjoying kratom lately at all. Why the hell am I bothering with this? Curiosity, of course.
Rant over, 😉. but if anyone can tell me how to gauge comparable strength of OH7 with the leaf and with true opioids, I'd be curious. I'm thinking try 5 mg just for starts.
 
I have been taking 4-4.5 grams of Kratom once a day, 5 days a week for several years now. I have had no need or desire to increase my dosage.

I would miss it but am probably more dependent on my morning coffee.
I’m curious as to why you only use it 5 days a week? Especially if you have been using it for yrs,,,,I would think that daily use (7 days a week) would be needed ?. No ?
 
The United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is recommending that the substance 7-hydroxymitragynine, known as 7-OH, become a controlled substance due to its ability to bind to opioid receptors, making it potentially addictive. 7-OH is a concentrated component of the kratom plant. The FDA is focused on regulating 7-OH and not focused on natural kratom products.

They are trying to make it a schedule 1 drug and I feel they will get there way. Like a power vacuum, I believe MAT programs are excited about recruiting the all the 7-OH dependents.

On July 29, 2025, during a joint press conference, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA or the Agency) recommended to the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) to classify 7-hydroxymitragynine (7-OH) as a Schedule I controlled substance under the Controlled Substances Act (CSA). Historically, it appears the DEA has generally relied on a two-step process in scheduling a substance as Schedule I: first, the DEA issues a temporary scheduling order to address imminent threats, and then proceeds to permanent scheduling through rulemaking. Indeed, over the last 25 years, public records show the DEA has generally used temporary orders, except in limited circumstances, before finalizing Schedule I classification.

However, the law does not require the DEA to use the emergency/temporary scheduling pathway. Rather, the DEA could pursue permanent scheduling directly using the full formal rulemaking process, but without a temporary/emergency order first. Given the language used during the July 29 joint HHS-FDA-DEA press conference, it appears that the DEA may pursue the emergency scheduling route as opposed to or in addition to the normal scheduling route. We believe this would be a departure from the traditional approach and could present legal and procedural challenges.

Emergency scheduling allows the DEA to schedule a substance as Schedule I without going through its full 8-factor analysis of whether scheduling is warranted. Emergency scheduling is temporary and remains valid for only two to three years. Importantly, emergency scheduling orders are not subject to judicial review, though such orders could perhaps be challenged in defending against a criminal prosecution. While public comment is not mandated for emergency scheduling, the DEA has, in past instances, provided opportunities for input before finalizing such orders.

Currently, the available evidence appears limited: there are no confirmed cases of fatalities from 7-hydroxymitragynine alone, only 53 reported poison control center calls nationwide over a three-month period, and a lack of seizure data, trafficking information, or signs of significant organized criminal activity. This evidence base distinguishes the current situation from previous emergency scheduling actions, where the DEA responded to patterns of multiple deaths, substantial law enforcement submissions, and notable increases in emergency department visits.

Relying primarily on preclinical animal research and laboratory receptor binding data marks a substantial shift from the established legal approach, which prioritizes real-world evidence of urgent public health risks. While laboratory findings show 7-OH’s high μ-opioid receptor activity, the potential pharmacological risk is not sufficient to establish an imminent hazard to public safety. For comparison, substances such as brorphine, fentanyl analogues, and isotonitazenes prompted action only after clear surges in deaths and enforcement activity—conditions not currently seen with 7-OH. In other words, the substances in question posed a clear and "imminent hazard" to public safety, indicating a rapidly escalating threat that is absent with 7-OH.

Accordingly, current evidence may not meet the threshold typically used to justify emergency scheduling. Rather, if there is a concern, a more measured approach is required where the available scientific, medical, and public input is fully vetted before rendering a decision to schedule 7-OH permanently. Indeed, implementing emergency scheduling for 7-OH under these circumstances could set a precedent for applying emergency scheduling in cases where evidence is primarily preclinical, rather than supported by established patterns of harm, raising due process considerations and potentially departing from the statutory framework Congress designed. A more measured path through the ordinary scheduling process would fully utilize existing FDA and state tools while following standard CSA scheduling procedures, ensuring scientific rigor and meaningful public involvement—reserving emergency mechanisms for situations where a real and present public health crisis is clearly evident.

Given the information provided so far, it appears that the FDA, as in 2016, has potentially not provided the DEA with a sufficient basis to schedule 7-OH as Schedule 1, let alone through a temporary order. Indeed, many questions remain unanswered, so slowing down this march is necessary to ensure the right decision is made.

What happens to all of the 7-OH production companies if it is banned & moved to a schedule 1 drug ?

-- Criminalization:
Making 7-OH a Schedule I controlled substance would make its production, distribution, and possession illegal under federal law. This would prevent companies from operating legally, effectively shutting down their business.

-- Investments Lost : Companies could explore bankruptcy options, such as Chapter 7 liquidation, to pay off debts and distribute assets to creditors. In some cases, Chapter 11 reorganization is possible if they can transition to a different business model. However, companies that depend on 7-OH production may find it difficult to reorganize under Chapter 11 because their main product would be illegal.

-- Loss of Revenue and Assets: With a ban, 7-OH production companies would lose all income related to these products. Their inventory, production equipment, and other business assets related to 7-OH could be seized and unable to generate revenue.
 
I’m curious as to why you only use it 5 days a week? Especially if you have been using it for yrs,,,,I would think that daily use (7 days a week) would be needed ?. No ?
I figured I should take 2 days a week off to be extra safe. I usually take a real opiod once a week. Once or twice a month I take ecstasy.

I have long Covid and Kratom makes me feel better...but I now get nausea. Last night I only took 3.5 grams. I thought about taking a Tramadol, but I did not.

I am extremely fearful about developing a serious opiod habit. Stories from this forum keep me super concerned (a good thing).
 
Well, what the hell. I figured I'd get some oh7 before it got banned. It's on order. I'm just trying to figure out just how strong it is. I know how powder kratom is, I've done it pretty often, this just sort of seems like a way get a higher dose of kraton without all the nausea. And it doesn't have the other alkaloids that the leaf has, which have some sort of hard-to-quantify effects. So that's different.
Honestly, I'm not sure what the point is if I'm not actually looking for a huge high or pain relief. I have pretty minimal kratom tolerance. And I haven't even been enjoying kratom lately at all. Why the hell am I bothering with this? Curiosity, of course.
Rant over, 😉. but if anyone can tell me how to gauge comparable strength of OH7 with the leaf and with true opioids, I'd be curious. I'm thinking try 5 mg just for starts.
I've asked this question repeatedly, with no answer. Would, say, a quarter of a 30 mg pill (the strawberry Opia tested at 27 mgs) 7 mgs equal 6-7 grams of Kratom? I am looking to replace my typical 4.5 gram intake of Kratom, not take it on top of that.
 
I've asked this question repeatedly, with no answer. Would, say, a quarter of a 30 mg pill (the strawberry Opia tested at 27 mgs) 7 mgs equal 6-7 grams of Kratom? I am looking to replace my typical 4.5 gram intake of Kratom, not take it on top of that.
A lot stronger than 7 grams. It’s actually a different kind of high compared to kratom leaf, more like a concentrated opioid-type high. I used to be addicted to kratom, taking 15–20g of red vein every night along with 200mg MIT extract.

After I cleaned up and stayed off for about 2–3 months, I tried a 7.5mg dose and it completely knocked me out.

But later, when I wanted to get high, I’d take 1/4 of a 15mg pill every 2 hours until I finished the whole tablet. After a few weeks of almost daily use, I needed the whole tablet right from the start just to get a good buzz.

For me, 7OH is addictive enough on its own because it only lasts around 2 hours, and once it wears off you immediately want to redose. On top of that, it messes with my sleep — I either couldn’t fall asleep or didn’t sleep deeply, so I’d wake up with a headache.

That said, kratom itself was much more addictive for me, maybe because of the headspace I was in while using it. I’d take my dose at night, wake up feeling sick, but the sickness would almost wear off by the time night came again. When I finally quit cold turkey, though, the withdrawals were brutal: diarrhea, nausea, fever-like symptoms, bone pain, runny nose, insomnia, tons of anxiety, depression, and obsessive thoughts. It was rough.

During that time I managed with supplements like propranolol, L-theanine, and occasionally a Xanax or a muscle relaxer.
 
For me, 7OH is addictive enough on its own because it only lasts around 2 hours, and once it wears off you immediately want to redose. On top of that, it messes with my sleep — I either couldn’t fall asleep or didn’t sleep deeply, so I’d wake up with a headache.
This why when people say that 7-OH is stronger than Oxycodone and I disagree 7-OH is stronger. 7-OH stops working well quickly and would not be reliable source for long-term pain treatment or even short-term for that matter. Oxycodone keeps working for for years and years.
 
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A lot stronger than 7 grams. It’s actually a different kind of high compared to kratom leaf, more like a concentrated opioid-type high. I used to be addicted to kratom, taking 15–20g of red vein every night along with 200mg MIT extract.

After I cleaned up and stayed off for about 2–3 months, I tried a 7.5mg dose and it completely knocked me out.

But later, when I wanted to get high, I’d take 1/4 of a 15mg pill every 2 hours until I finished the whole tablet. After a few weeks of almost daily use, I needed the whole tablet right from the start just to get a good buzz.

For me, 7OH is addictive enough on its own because it only lasts around 2 hours, and once it wears off you immediately want to redose. On top of that, it messes with my sleep — I either couldn’t fall asleep or didn’t sleep deeply, so I’d wake up with a headache.

That said, kratom itself was much more addictive for me, maybe because of the headspace I was in while using it. I’d take my dose at night, wake up feeling sick, but the sickness would almost wear off by the time night came again. When I finally quit cold turkey, though, the withdrawals were brutal: diarrhea, nausea, fever-like symptoms, bone pain, runny nose, insomnia, tons of anxiety, depression, and obsessive thoughts. It was rough.

During that time I managed with supplements like propranolol, L-theanine, and occasionally a Xanax or a muscle relaxer.
So 1/4 of a 30 mg pill is a lot, much more than 4-5 grams of Kratom....and sounds to me like it should only be taken once a week.
 
The other important thing to remember is that these manufacturers do not have consistent quality control, so one brand might have a so- called 30 mg pill that actually has more or less than 30 mg, another brand some different amount.
 
The other important thing to remember is that these manufacturers do not have consistent quality control, so one brand might have a so- called 30 mg pill that actually has more or less than 30 mg, another brand some different amount.
Correct. I bought some of the 30 mg Opia pills that tested at 27 mgs.

I just read on Wikipedia that &oH is 13 times more powerful at pain relief than morphine! Sheesh, yeah this stuff has to be addictive. I wonder how long it will be until banned?
 
This why when people say that 7-OH is stronger than Oxycodone I disagree. 7-OH stops working well quickly and would not be reliable source for long-term pain treatment or even short-term for that matter. Oxycodone keeps working for for years and years.
To be honest, I haven’t really used it in a pain-relief setting. Kratom leaf worked surprisingly well for a mouth infection I once had, whereas codeine and tramadol didn’t help at all.

7-OH, with its short half-life and the quick tolerance build up, doesn’t seem very effective as a legitimate pain medication. At best, it might work for a day, but not in the long run.

It also lacks many of the traditional opioid characteristics. For example, it doesn’t give me the deep emotional release I used to get from poppy pod tea, and it doesn’t induce that heavy relaxation or “nod.” Instead, it feels more like a stimulant type opioid it makes you wired, and being wired often makes physical pain feel more intense.

The only real advantage I see is its legality and the fact that it can be combined with benzodiazepines and antihistamines relatively safely. That said, I have noticed some slowed breathing with that combo nothing alarming, but still noticeable. Even then, I never experienced a proper “nod,” even with benzos and antihistamines, though I should add I’ve never gone beyond 15 mg.
So 1/4 of a 30 mg pill is a lot, much more than 4-5 grams of Kratom....and sounds to me like it should only be taken once a week.
If you can actually keep it to once a week, God bless you. I once had a stash of around 20 pills and told myself I’d only use them weekly. The problem is, these things make you want to re-dose like crazy. And I’m usually very careful with opioids for example, I’ve managed to use poppy pod tea only occasionally, and I even have a stash of codeine and tramadol that I barely touch.

But with these, I started with the intention of once a week, and by the very first week I was already up to using every other day. By the second week, it became a daily habit until my stash was gone.

The only good thing is that I can’t order them easily I have to import them from another country, and they’re expensive. Still, I catch myself tempted to order again, because sometimes I really feel the need to get high. But I know for sure that if I did, there’s no way I’d be able to keep it at just once a week.
 
To be honest, I haven’t really used it in a pain-relief setting. Kratom leaf worked surprisingly well for a mouth infection I once had, whereas codeine and tramadol didn’t help at all.

7-OH, with its short half-life and the quick tolerance build up, doesn’t seem very effective as a legitimate pain medication. At best, it might work for a day, but not in the long run.

It also lacks many of the traditional opioid characteristics. For example, it doesn’t give me the deep emotional release I used to get from poppy pod tea, and it doesn’t induce that heavy relaxation or “nod.” Instead, it feels more like a stimulant type opioid it makes you wired, and being wired often makes physical pain feel more intense.

The only real advantage I see is its legality and the fact that it can be combined with benzodiazepines and antihistamines relatively safely. That said, I have noticed some slowed breathing with that combo nothing alarming, but still noticeable. Even then, I never experienced a proper “nod,” even with benzos and antihistamines, though I should add I’ve never gone beyond 15 mg.
This is a hot top with the family tonight and we have brainstormed some strong cases in a tree formation to different fences. I hope they can make strong cases to the composed titles we came up with.

The liiict fentanyl. tranq dope, nitazines trades wiill help fill the vacuum when 7-OH goes schedule 1, MAT will help fill the vacuum, hospitals, pysch wards will fill the vacuum, jails, morgues, institutions, dark-web will fill in, temporary instant "blackmarket" 7-OH street dealers pushing smoke shop
s left over will fill the vacuum, and funeral homes will fill the vacuum.

If Big Pharma plays their cards right with the FDA & DEA and pitches to the tunes of what to spins this correctly to line their pockets :
-- make 7-OH a schedule 3. great combo for chronic pain syndrome patients for anti-depression, anxiety, and breakthrough pain assistance without having to increase the current Rx Opioid for chronic pain long-term treatment. Longer duration in times with the current opioids before needing a titration.
-- 7-OH is useful for patients that cannot tolerate traditional opioids regarding nausea, sedation, and need help with traditional opioid tapering
-- 7-OH can be used for as an add-on after not wanting to increase the dose of traditional opioids
-- 7-OH can be used for post-op pain when switching off supervised opioid therapy due to discharge tapering for a safer "out-patient" program
-- 7-OH could help opioid dependent patients from increasing their current dosage.
-- 7-OH could be adopted by MAT to limit Methadone dosages and to help with the initial opioid-cross over stage (10-12 days)
-- 7-OH can be used to help long opioid dependent patients by providing something to take a few days out of the week by 30% reduction in daily MME. It would give the pain management and extra 3 day of medicine each month. It could be used for breakthru pain throughout the month. This will help the patient have extra opioid breakthru doses. The doctor doesn't have to increase the quantity and it draws less attention.
-- instant release and extended releases forms can be made. extended would be the best route then the instant release follows
-- IV versions would be useful in hospital settings for patients that cannot tolerate traditional opioids
-- I have more good pitches after tonight's work. I cannot wait to hear more member's plays on how to make 7-OH the most needed drug for big pharma and how to get it into Congress by way of the state. Suggestions to them are like a "suttle command"

Win win for everyone.
 
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