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Phenethylamines Using mescaline as a substitute for DMT in ayahuasca

Recently came across this. I wonder how frequently the indigenous added cacti to ayahuasca.

I wonder too, but I think if we think about this carefully we can note that the plants really grow best in very different climates. This means that to the extent they were combined, it was only by people who had access to one or the other via trade. I think it's likely that until the 20th century, many more remote parts of the jungle and mountains alike did not see much or any trade at all. Areas closer to urban centers of course could have engaged in all kinds of trade going back centuries or more. Medicinal plants were likely highly valued and traded successfully over substantial distances, and any curandero/as working closer to urban centers would have access to a lot more possible admixture plants.

One of the huge problems when talking about "indigenous" things, as a category, is that in most of South America, those lines have always been blurred since the conquest of the West. This is in contrast to the colonialism of North America in which there was much more segregation between colonist and native. Ancient traditions involving medicinal plants, which were already extremely diverse from tribe to tribe (so to speak), undoubtedly evolved in the vicinity of urban centers to accommodate a wider range of customers. This led to an evolution and "Westernization" of a great many so-called indigenous traditions that was going on long before the growing numbers of tourists from the U.S. and Europe started showing up, looking for a "spiritual healing experience".

Particularly frustrating for those who like to wonder as I do, almost all the traditions have been passed down orally, and it seems all but impossible to even scratch the surface of knowledge accumulated across the continent over recent centuries to say nothing of what there was before the White Man came.

Tryptamines and phenethylamines are distinct for a reason I think, and offer different experiences which don't usually go well together at the same time. LSD is both, and it feels like it would go well with cactus too, but I'm just too scared to take LSD/mescaline because I've read of heart issues with that combo..[/i]
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I've never heard of heart issues when combining LSD and mescaline, and I've read a lot of trip reports. Is there something in the literature about this? Because IMO, LSD and mescaline is one of the best combos hands down.
 
for those who like to wonder as I do

Here's a variation of Ayahuasca that doesn't use any DMT-containing plants. Instead it uses scopoletin-containing plants. Scopoletin interacts with 5-HT2A.

Brunfelsia grandiflora is an ayahuasca admixture that contains scopoletin. Few people use this or even know about it in the US. By using Brunfelsia grandiflora instead of chacruna or mimosa you can make legal ayahuasca.

You can use cramp bark as a substitute for Brunfelsia grandiflora. It works. I can vouch for that.
As an admixture Brunfelsia grandiflora is called Chiric Sanango or or Manacá. Its rich in scopoletin, that's the magic element. Scopoletin exerts cognition-enhancing properties proven by animal lab tests,

Many tribes throughout the Amazonian River basin add Brunfelsia Grandiflora leaves, roots and root bark into their Ayahuasca brews. In one recipe for each piece of Banisteriopsis caapi vine (30 cm long and 10 cm wide) you add 2-3 leaves of Brunfelsia grandiflora. Its usually used with chacruna at half the dose above. But it works without it. This recipe is a more common one: 8 pieces of ayahuasca vine approximately 30 cm long and 10 cm in diameter, 1 ½ chacruna leaves, 12 leaves of chiric sanango (Brunfelsia grandiflora). Everything is combined and boiled n 40 liters of water for the entire day, reducing the liquid n to 1 ½ liters of Ayahuasca tea. That recipe ratio is 8 leaves of Brunfelsia grandiflora for every leaf of chacruna. Without the chacruna you will double the Brunfelsia grandiflora usually. Be careful with this. Ease into it. It's awsome, but you'll be sick as a dog if you overdo the Brunfelsia grandiflora. Use the caapi as the main plant. Brunfelsia grandiflora is just a helper.
 
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Recently came across this. I wonder how frequently the indigenous added cacti to ayahuasca.


Christian Rätsch. ETHNOBOTANICA AYAHUASCA / COCA: THE “LEAF OF LIFE” [Ayahuasca: Rituals, Potions and Visionary Art from the Amazon. Adelaars, A., Müeller-Ebeling, C., Rätsch, C. 2016. Divine Arts. ISBN: 9781611250510]


And similar to the criticism of this combo seen at the bottom of the first post, this person stated that he didn't like the combo of cactus with shrooms:

No it isn't.. I was expecting something more like an LSD/mushroom combo, but the two are too different, it feels like they pull in different directions. Tryptamines and phenethylamines are distinct for a reason I think, and offer different experiences which don't usually go well together at the same time. LSD is both, and it feels like it would go well with cactus too, but I'm just too scared to take LSD/mescaline because I've read of heart issues with that combo..

ShiroiTora, 2025-07-19, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29286016#29286016
I couldn't find any evidence of heart issues with that combination personally, and the shroomery is full of a TON of pseudoscience ime, they really only excel at cultivating fungi since that's their main focus. I've done this mix before but using mushrooms in place of cacti, and no anticholinergics, and it was fascinating. LSD, Baniseriopsis caapi, blue lotus, pan cyan mushrooms, and coca was my personal favorite.
 
LSD, Baniseriopsis caapi, blue lotus, pan cyan mushrooms, and coca was my personal favorite.

I've been documenting such risky combos, for example, in this post of mine, I posted a copy of an r/MAOIs discussion between three people who used cocaine while on pharmaceutical MAOIs. It's important that such experiences be documented in as much detail as possible, so consider making a post in that thread. All of these indigenous medicine believers are ironically giving their medicine a bad reputation because of an ignorant idea about the boundries of the MAOI effect. Case-in-point, this guy, who hosts retreats for different medicines and is very active on YouTube:

"For some people it can be dangerous, but it’s very rare. If you use only chaliponga, chacruna, and Caapi, it’s generally safe. Avoid ssri’s, drugs like cocaine, and even sex in all forms for a week prior"

@Illumignosis. 2024-06-17. re: How to Make Healing Ayahuasca with Master Plants. @Illumignosis. 2023-09-27. YouTube.

Does he think cocaine needs to be avoided for a week? The reason SSRIs need to be avoided for a week or more is because they have very long durations:

"Five half-lives equates to about five days for most SSRIs except fluoxetine, which can still be significantly active five or more weeks after cessation."*

In contrast, cocaine has one of the shortest durations of action.

He also told me that using LSD with B. caapi is "an extremely dangerous idea."


Using LSD as a substitute for DMT in ayahuasca


*Switching and stopping antidepressants. Keks, N., Hope, J., Keogh, S. 2016. Australian prescriber, 39(3), 76–83. DOI: 10.18773/austprescr.2016.039 (Switching strategies)
 
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I've been documenting such risky combos, for example, in this post of mine, I posted a copy of an r/MAOIs discussion between three people who used cocaine while on pharmaceutical MAOIs. It's important that such experiences be documented in as much detail as possible, so consider making a post in that thread. All of these indigenous medicine believers are ironically giving their medicine a bad reputation because of an ignorant idea about the boundries of the MAOI effect. Case-in-point, this guy, who hosts retreats for different medicines and is very active on YouTube:
Is it really risky though? I have never found evidence that cocaine relates to MAO, and I've used/administered this countless times to the point where I consistently measured lowered pulse/BP compared to the same dose of coca, when in combination with harmaline or B. caapi.
"For some people it can be dangerous, but it’s very rare. If you use only chaliponga, chacruna, and Caapi, it’s generally safe. Avoid ssri’s, drugs like cocaine, and even sex in all forms for a week prior"
Don't chaliponga and/or chacruna contain a meaningful amount of 5-MeO-DMT? I used them for most of my ayahuasca preparations and they sure as fuck feel different from other serotonergic sources (I tried ~15 different DMT sources).
He also told me that using LSD with B. caapi is "an extremely dangerous idea."
I have yet to find evidence that this is dangerous, but I've both used this combination (alongside chacruna/chaliponga, mushrooms, etc.) countless times and have administered that, and never encountered any issues. Just anecdotal ofc.
 
Caapi is great teacher plant, on its own or combined with DMT or psilocybin. Ime there is no synergy with mescaline, just additive effects.

i’ve tried this combination and it had no real overlap, they dont potentiate each other. 2c-b is only potentiated by mao-B inhibitors (see the mescaline page on wikipedia), so not that much point to it

The fear over this combination is overexaggerated especially in the case of small doses


Shroomaway457  2026-05-07  h‍ttps://www.reddit.com/r/harmalas/comments/1t43h99/any_experiences_with_2cb_and_syrian_rue/okge2tu/
 
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