Need Help Definitive List of Comfort Meds for Opiate Detox/ log of fent detox.

[NY2soFlo]

36y/o… been through the classic opiate path. Oxy->dope->fent. I’ve successfully completed 4 in patient detox’s and one at home detox. I’ve had clean periods of over a year a few times.

But I’ve been using fent in south Florida for 4 years straight. Granted, I don’t just go balls out and do as much as I can (like I used to)… I stick to a regiment of 4 bags a day to stay well. The type of fent I have I barely feel, but it keeps me well for close to 24 hours. This scares me as I know the detox will likely be more drawn out. Last time using this same fent, I waited 72 hours before Suboxone and STILL went into precips.

SO- my plan is to do a “cold turkey” detox meaning NO subs. I’ve done it before with a standard protocol of comfort meds and I just pushed on. I did it. I can do it again, and this time, I’m further along in life and have SO MUCH more to gain from kicking. I’m ready to live my life.

MY QUESTION IS: (and I’m sure threads exist but I can’t find them)… what would we say is the list of standard comfort meds to get from my doctor? Last time I went in, told him the deal and he literally asked me what I wanted. If I remember correctly it was:

-Clonidine (hot cold flashes, rls, helps with physical discomfort)
-hydroxyzine (antihistamine for yawning, sneezing, and has some anti anxiety action… allegedly)
-Valium (anti anxiety, helps sleep, muscle relaxing)
-Muscle Relaxer (I prefer bacofen, but anything would help
-ondasteron (stops nausea)

I did it with these. Below I’ll list some others that I’ve tried, don’t feel strongly that they are as helpful, but I’d like to hear anyone’s opinion on them:

-pregbalin/gabapentin (never did much for me)
-REAL SLEEP AID (like ambient… not some off label old school anti depressants. Those just don’t do it for me)
-cbd/weed (cbd may have helped before, but weed didn’t actually help much other then giving me a mental break. And maybe appetite stimulating)

And lastly, other supps that I can get otc that may help:
-Delta Sleep Inducing Peptide (helps sleep)
-NAD+ (has some promising initial research to overall recovery post acute, and in lowering acute withdrawal)
-SODIUM ASCORBATE (at high doses, there are LOTS of people saying this was “the” godsend. I’m willing to try it)
-passionflower extract (helps with mood/depression)
-L-Tyrosie/DLPA- (dopamine precursors. This seems like it make be more helpful for PAWS… anyone use during scute?)
-loperamide (obviously helpful)


Anyone with ANY INPUT here is greatly appreciated. I’m aiming to start detox in about 10 days. I work from home during the week, and can take off from my weekend job. I’m in the process of getting my ex gf back, so I have to just do this. Life gets SO good SO quick when you throw all this BS out!!!

Anything I missed? Whether it’s the top catagory- prescribed “must haves”? Any random things that helped them?

Like I said this ain’t my first rodeo, but I’m convinced I can make it manageable with the right meds. And my mindset to quit is stronger than it ever was. To me, clonidine is king. If I had to pick one med, that would be it.

 

[pixies+]

Add black seed oil to that list.
If he’s willing to give you just about anything, I’d ask for zopiclone or maybe lunesta for you. I personally found ambien made me hyper. I switched back pretty fast. But that’s just me.

I can never remember the proper name.. loperimide? Something like that.

Cdb oil is great.

I’m not so familiar with the other OTCs

I’m sure you’ll get some more answers! Good luck on the CT, it’s tough, but you’ve done it before. Remember to be kind to your body after, as well. Healthy food, exercise, hobbies I wish you all the luck in the world!

 

[pixies+]

Oof, I’m sorry, I kinda missed the first part. you sure you wanna jump off fent with no soft landing at all?

 

[red22]

Strychnos nux-vomica extract has been shown to help and there have been serious fans of its effects in general. It does have a pleasant, analgesic effect if the dose is kept low. I first heard about its use as a "drug" on this site.

A Unani drug combination (containing SNV with other plants) was tested on the opiate abstinence syndrome in moderately and severely morphine-dependent rats. Results showed that the drug combination markedly suppressed the opiate abstinence syndrome, and possessed central depressant and analgesic activity.(35)

35. Shahana Y, Zafar KMY, Zillur RS. Elaboration of the pharmacodynamics of some indigenous drugs claimed to have de-addictive effects. Ethnobiology in human welfare: abstracts of the fourth international congress of ethnobiology, Lucknow, Uttar Pradesh, India;1994:298.

A review on medicinal uses, analytical techniques and pharmacological activities of Strychnos nux-vomica Linn.: A concise report. 2017. Patel, K., Laloo, D., Singh, G. K., Gadewar, M., & Patel, D. K. Chinese Journal of Integrative Medicine. Advance online publication. DOI: 10.1007/s11655-016-2514-1 (Effects of SNV on Central Nervous System, pg. 4)


Two testimonials and a link to my strychnine thread:

You all missed it, I think, but when you get tired of fucking around with the chicken feed weak stuff its time to meet the master blaster. Strychnine baby. THe strychnine man of the 1920s was the best dressed man in sleazy streets of Soho London. He was still functional when all the coke heads [were] edgy and coming down, when the morphine crowd were in the gutter.

Seriously this plant extract if you know how to use it is a very healthy, noortopic stimulant. It does have a safe window of use and was used in western medicine for centuries. It still is widely used in the east. It is banned from olympic sports for good reason[*]

Ze Baboon, 2009-07-26, https://drugs-forum.com/threads/herbs-that-are-energizing-stimulating.354918/page-2#post-638158


If there was a stimulant as nice as strychnine is that was not as toxic, it would be SUPER POPULAR. The problem with strychnine is that a good dose is 500 micrograms. A large dose is 3 milligrams. A deadly dose is about 30 mg or so. 10 times more than a large dose and it can be fatal. That's a MAJOR problem. When it was popular, too many people would OD on it. As little as 5 mg can cause unpleasant effects. It's just too dangerous for the average person to buy at the local store. Too many people like to overdo drugs and not follow the directions on the box. With strychnine, you cannot take it like it's caffeine. You have to be very careful about taking accurate doses or you'll be in for it.

I think if people capped it at 1 mg, and never took more than 1 mg, it would still be available. Too many people abuse these kinds of things thinking things like, "if 1 pill is good 10 should give me much more energy!", so they would take ten 3 mg pills, and then die shortly after (or just have painful convulsions if they were lucky).

69Ron, 2010-01-31, https://drugs-forum.com/threads/nux-vomica-how-to-use.116031/#post-757000


Strychnine's association with peyote and LSD


*It is on the World Anti-doping Authority's banned substances list: https://www.wada-ama.org/en/prohibited-list?page=0&q=strychnine&all=1#search-anchor (See S6. Stimulants)

 

[NY2soFlo]

Add black seed oil to that list.
If he’s willing to give you just about anything, I’d ask for zopiclone or maybe lunesta for you. I personally found ambien made me hyper. I switched back pretty fast. But that’s just me.

I can never remember the proper name.. loperimide? Something like that.

Cdb oil is great.

I’m not so familiar with the other OTCs

I’m sure you’ll get some more answers! Good luck on the CT, it’s tough, but you’ve done it before. Remember to be kind to your body after, as well. Healthy food, exercise, hobbies I wish you all the luck in the world!

Thank you! Black seed oil is something I keep seeing come up. I need to look into it. In terms of buying any potential remedies, I’m open to all. Luckily I’ve progressed to a point where I can afford to get a couple things for my comfort.

I had a cbd vape last time and I needed to hit it a lot but it definitely helped. I’m not looking to be high so cbd is attractive in that sense.

Also, I’ve never tried any of the real “Z drugs” for sleep, so thank you. I believe generic ambien is Zolpidem.


And lastly (to your second post), here’s the thing… I got precips after waiting over 72 hours (it was really like at the end of DAY 3). That is something that scarred me for life and if I was going to add even a small (say 3-4 day) sub taper I would wait until day 4/5 now out of safety. My thought is, if I’m already at day 4/5 I mind as well just ride it out instead of prolonging it a little bit softening the blow. I have time here, but for many reasons I’d rather just bang through this fast and hard. I respond decently well to comfort meds. Also, I know the doc will end up writing me a script for subs regardless (he did last time). So if I get to day 5 and am still getting worse then I may reconsider then, I know enough to know my feelings may change by then lol. Either way, I’ll test the waters first with a mini dose, if I’m clear of precips I’d taper something like 2-2-1-1-.5. I just don’t want any surprises on day 10-12 when the subs clear and I’m back to the shit.

 

[NY2soFlo]

Strychnos nux-vomica extract has been shown to help and there have been serious fans of its effects in general. It does have a pleasant, analgesic effect if the dose is kept low. I first heard about its use as a "drug" on this site.

A Unani drug combination (containing SNV with other plants) was tested on the opiate abstinence syndrome in moderately and severely morphine-dependent rats. Results showed that the drug combination markedly suppressed the opiate abstinence syndrome, and possessed central depressant and analgesic activity.(35)

35. Shahana Y, Zafar KMY, Zillur RS. Elaboration of the pharmacodynamics of some indigenous drugs claimed to have de-addictive effects. Ethnobiology in human welfare: abstracts of the fourth international congress of ethnobiology, Lucknow, Uttar Pradesh, India;1994:298.

A review on medicinal uses, analytical techniques and pharmacological activities of Strychnos nux-vomica Linn.: A concise report. 2017. Patel, K., Laloo, D., Singh, G. K., Gadewar, M., & Patel, D. K. Chinese Journal of Integrative Medicine. Advance online publication. DOI: 10.1007/s11655-016-2514-1 (Effects of SNV on Central Nervous System, pg. 4)


Two testimonials and a link to my strychnine thread:

You all missed it, I think, but when you get tired of fucking around with the chicken feed weak stuff its time to meet the master blaster. Strychnine baby. THe strychnine man of the 1920s was the best dressed man in sleazy streets of Soho London. He was still functional when all the coke heads [were] edgy and coming down, when the morphine crowd were in the gutter.

Seriously this plant extract if you know how to use it is a very healthy, noortopic stimulant. It does have a safe window of use and was used in western medicine for centuries. It still is widely used in the east. It is banned from olympic sports for good reason[*]

Ze Baboon, 2009-07-26, https://drugs-forum.com/threads/herbs-that-are-energizing-stimulating.354918/page-2#post-638158


If there was a stimulant as nice as strychnine is that was not as toxic, it would be SUPER POPULAR. The problem with strychnine is that a good dose is 500 micrograms. A large dose is 3 milligrams. A deadly dose is about 30 mg or so. 10 times more than a large dose and it can be fatal. That's a MAJOR problem. When it was popular, too many people would OD on it. As little as 5 mg can cause unpleasant effects. It's just too dangerous for the average person to buy at the local store. Too many people like to overdo drugs and not follow the directions on the box. With strychnine, you cannot take it like it's caffeine. You have to be very careful about taking accurate doses or you'll be in for it.

I think if people capped it at 1 mg, and never took more than 1 mg, it would still be available. Too many people abuse these kinds of things thinking things like, "if 1 pill is good 10 should give me much more energy!", so they would take ten 3 mg pills, and then die shortly after (or just have painful convulsions if they were lucky).

69Ron, 2010-01-31, https://drugs-forum.com/threads/nux-vomica-how-to-use.116031/#post-757000


Strychnine's association with peyote and LSD


*It is on the World Anti-doping Authority's banned substances list: https://www.wada-ama.org/en/prohibited-list?page=0&q=strychnine&all=1#search-anchor (See S6. Stimulants)

Interesting. Thank you. Ive done a LOT of reading on anything detox related (been hooked for over 15 years) and never heard of strychnine being used. Obviously the dosing and protocols would have to be heavily studied.

Did you use it?

Also, I wouldn’t even know where to get it. I’m assuming this isn’t available via a script?

 

[NY2soFlo]

So I took my final dose (1 bag Fent) this morning at 8am. It’s pretty long acting. From past experience I’ll probably not feel bad until around 18 hours. So, expecting to wake up tomorrow morning (24hours) and the fun should start. I got a home detox kit from my doctor:

-.1mg clonidine (30ct + 1 refill)
-25mg hydroxyzine (30ct + 1 refill)
-5mg Valium (42 count)
-4mg Tizanidine (21 count + refill)
-4mg zofran (12 count + 1 refill)
-8mg subutex (10 count)

I also have 15 1mg Klonopin (I got this to supplement the Valium since that 5mg dose won’t do much for me. I’ve been taking small doses of pressed stocks for the last two months. I only take a quarter stick but it’s def some incredibly strong type of research benzo. So I’ve done a good job of fucking up my benzo tolerance. But I’ve also gone cold turkey off if a few times here or there and it wasn’t too bad, luckily my dose has been small.

OTC wise I have;
-Tylenol, ibuprofen, tylenol
-immodum
-plenty of sodium ascorbate (enough to dose 25g for months)
-black seed oil (200mg equivalent to 5g of the active ingredient)
-passionflower extract.

I’m pretty well dosed on the comfort meds. I know the combo of clonidine, hydroxyzine, tizanidine and Valium needs to be respected for its ability To lower blood pressure abs knock me out, but I also know what I can handle. And I don’t mind getting some small naps to pass the time if anything. Any input on dosing would be appreciated. I could have sworn I was always given 50mg hydroxyzine. And the 4mg dose of tizanidine seems light, but I could be wrong

One benefit to doing it at home is being able to dose as needed. In patient I have to wait 8 hours to take my clonidine -which sucks bc that’s most helpful to me. Granted I’ll still try to wait as long as possible.

Does anyone have experience with passionflower extract or black seed oil? In terms of dosing, amount and frequency.

I’m not hoping for much from the otc side, but I’ll be honest… some of the reviews of vitamin C mega dosing and black seed oil are really exciting.

Mentally im ready. Ready to not be broke. Ready to put all my work into living my life. I’ve gotten clean before in detox and at home from longer and much heavier habits. I know it will suck. But I’ve never wanted to move on with life more. It’s always been more of a”running away from the pain of active addiction”. Sure that’s here now, but I’m just so ready to live. I’ve been fortunate to have a good job, and have gotten a nice apt and set myself up even while addicted- bc I’ve been just using a strict “minimum dosing” protocol to stay well. Havnt been trying (or able) to get high. So enough is enough.

 

[NY2soFlo]

Oh, and as I mentioned before, I don’t even want to mess with the subs. I got precips after waiting 72 hours last time on this same dope… so my thought is, if I’m gonna wait 4 days, mind as well just truck it on through. I know even a small 3 day taper might bring my sanity, but it also stretches things out. The doc wanted me to take them (big surprise) so I figure why not. On day 5 that may save me.

 

[red22]

To answer your question, yes. There's two types: plain extract and detoxicated extract.

"Due to the high toxicity, the seeds of Strychnos nux-vomica must be processed before clinical practice. During processing, the toxic alkaloids are converted into their isoforms or nitrogen oxidation derivatives, which are more or equally as potent and less toxic than their parent alkaloids [35,36]."*

Contrary to that quote, the plain extract is fine as long as you're really careful with the dose (as conveyed by 69Ron in his quote, above).

Detoxicated extract must be much weaker because I only got very mild effects from it—it was unimpressive compared to plain. Also, my d-extract had other herbal extracts in it, including lemon balm, which is mildly psychoactive. I look forward to getting it again and pushing the dose, since you can safely do that with properly detoxicated extract.

I asked the administration about providing sources for it since it's not illegal and they said no, so I'll ask them if giving you hints, i.e., its folk names, is OK.

Also, I did get mild strychnine poisoning on one occasion, so you really do have to be careful with this stuff.


*Important poisonous plants in tibetan ethnomedicine. Ma, L., Gu, R., Tang, L., Chen, Z. E., Di, R., & Long, C. 2015. Toxins, 7(1), 138–155. DOI: 10.3390/toxins7010138 (3.2. Alkaloids in Strychnos nux-vomica)

 

[tryptakid]

Oh, and as I mentioned before, I don’t even want to mess with the subs. I got precips after waiting 72 hours last time on this same dope… so my thought is, if I’m gonna wait 4 days, mind as well just truck it on through. I know even a small 3 day taper might bring my sanity, but it also stretches things out. The doc wanted me to take them (big surprise) so I figure why not. On day 5 that may save me.

To answer your question, yes. There's two types: plain extract and detoxicated extract.

"Due to the high toxicity, the seeds of Strychnos nux-vomica must be processed before clinical practice. During processing, the toxic alkaloids are converted into their isoforms or nitrogen oxidation derivatives, which are more or equally as potent and less toxic than their parent alkaloids [35,36]."*

Contrary to that quote, the plain extract is fine as long as you're really careful with the dose (as conveyed by 69Ron in his quote, above).

Detoxicated extract must be much weaker because I only got very mild effects from it—it was unimpressive compared to plain. Also, my d-extract had other herbal extracts in it, including lemon balm, which is mildly psychoactive. I look forward to getting it again and pushing the dose, since you can safely do that with properly detoxicated extract.

I asked the administration about providing sources for it since it's not illegal and they said no, so I'll ask them if giving you hints, i.e., its folk names, is OK.

Also, I did get mild strychnine poisoning on one occasion, so you really do have to be careful with this stuff.


*Important poisonous plants in tibetan ethnomedicine. Ma, L., Gu, R., Tang, L., Chen, Z. E., Di, R., & Long, C. 2015. Toxins, 7(1), 138–155. DOI: 10.3390/toxins7010138 (3.2. Alkaloids in Strychnos nux-vomica)

From what I understand, the ethnobotanical you're discussing may be available on the via legitimate retail vendors online however its legal status may vary and this is not a board to direct people in where to obtain such things. That said, I was able to locate at least one storefront with a page for this extract with relative ease and no prior knowledge of the substance.

I would also say that from a harm reduction perspective, a product that can result in strychnine poisoning is something I would be very cautious about using without research around risk reduction and a contingency plan for such an outcome.

 

[NY2soFlo]

With all due respect and appreciation for the response, I’m not looking into strychnine. Just the meds I listed.

Was more so asking about if anyone recently went through it, and remembered their dosing on the meds and otcs I listed. The prescribed dosing makes no sense. “Take 1 tizanidine every 8 hours. Take one 5mg Valium every 8 hours”… SOUNDS good. But in the throes of the worst of it I’m using it PRN.

 

[pixies+]

I’ve taken all in the first list but tizinadine and hydroxyzine

Only have taken Tylenol, Imodium, and black seed oil in the second list!

 

[red22]

Hydroxyzine is related to diphenhydramine, which has been getting bad press for years and there have been some recent negative articles about it (keyword: dementia). It's weak sauce anyway. You're better off with the strychnine.

"Strychnine is one of my favorite medicinal substances. From the moment I obtained authorization to purchase and use strychnine, I immediately did so."

Dr. Henryk Różański. [Ancient and Modern Medicine. Strychnine – Strychninum and Strychnos in Medicine]. Dec 31 2010 [blog entry] [translated from Polish]

 

[pixies+]

With all due respect and appreciation for the response, I’m not looking into strychnine. Just the meds I listed.

Was more so asking about if anyone recently went through it, and remembered their dosing on the meds and otcs I listed. The prescribed dosing makes no sense. “Take 1 tizanidine every 8 hours. Take one 5mg Valium every 8 hours”… SOUNDS good. But in the throes of the worst of it I’m using it PRN.

I get what you’re saying. I’ve done the impulse consumption.

Try not to do this though… try to find a balance. It’s deeply important

 

[pixies+]

To answer your question, yes. There's two types: plain extract and detoxicated extract

Can you please quote where this person asked that question?

Maybe I’m missing something. Always a possibility.

 

[red22]

Interesting. Thank you. Ive done a LOT of reading on anything detox related (been hooked for over 15 years) and never heard of strychnine being used. Obviously the dosing and protocols would have to be heavily studied.

Did you use it?

Also, I wouldn’t even know where to get it. I’m assuming this isn’t available via a script?

 

[pixies+]

Can you please quote where this person asked that question?

Maybe I’m missing something. Always a possibility.

Never mind. My bad. I’m sorry about that.

However, they’ve expressed that they’re not interested.

 

[NY2soFlo]

I get what you’re saying. I’ve done the impulse consumption.

Try not to do this though… try to find a balance. It’s deeply important

Especially bc even slightly overdoing it makes me weak and takes more out of me then the wd alone. And then now I’m not showering or eating bc I don’t feel like standing. I’m currently playing around with dosesges, staggering them, and using the minimal amount needed to manage wd.

I’ll save the slightly heavier dosing for the peak day of two when I’m completely bedwrittn.

 

[CavernsoftheMind]

What about a good NMDA antagonist?
Ketamine helped me tremendously when coming off of ODSMT.
With the physical as well as the psychological symptoms.

Maybe your doc could prescribe it or Memantine?

 

[pixies+]

Especially bc even slightly overdoing it makes me weak and takes more out of me then the wd alone. And then now I’m not showering or eating bc I don’t feel like standing. I’m currently playing around with dosesges, staggering them, and using the minimal amount needed to manage wd.

I’ll save the slightly heavier dosing for the peak day of two when I’m completely bedwrittn.

Darling.. I’ve gone weeks without showering in the past. I understand.

You need to summon every bit of energy and fire you have in your fucking body and you need to love yourself and fight. I know the intense pain.

You will do this