I want to undo the effects of a dopamine antagonist with a dopamine agonist. Would it work and is there anything important i should know?

[Matthew01]

I don’t think people typically enjoy dopamine agonists. They tend to mainly be prescribed for things like Parkinson’s, restless leg syndrome, or other niche conditions. None of them are scheduled, which indicates that people don’t enjoy them enough to abuse them commonly.

The dopamine receptors (D1 through D5) can be divided into two groups. Activating D1 like receptors in the “go” pathway (aka direct pathway) (D1 and D5) stimulates the production of cyclic AMP (a second messenger). The “no go” pathway (aka indirect pathway) consists of the D2 like receptors (D2s, D2L, D3, and D4). These inhibit the production of cyclic AMP.

These two pathways function together (as all dopamine receptors respond to dopamine), and dopamine agonists tend to be a bit selective (often for the D2 class). Apomorphine has a higher affinity for the D2 family over the D1 family. These drugs aren’t known to be euphoric based on the reports I have seen, but can cause some pretty profound compulsive/addictive behaviors such as addictions to gambling, sex, and shopping but also OCD like symptoms.

Apomorphine has a pretty big problem in that it is considered an emetic. We have dopamine receptors (among others) in this part of our brain called the chemoreceptor trigger zone (ctz). This is a little bit of brain that can sample blood away from the blood brain barrier and it acts as a probe to check if we are being poisoned by something. If it thinks that (via receptor activation ) we will vomit. This is why anti nausea medications often block dopamine (also other receptors).

Cabergoline is also something to avoid as it causes fibrosis of your heart valves over time (cardiac fibrosis) due to agonism of serotonin 2B receptors.

Finally, you have been getting over an injection of a long lasting antipsychotic. These things take quite a bit of time to reverse, and it’s only been since April. I know you are likely feeling bad, but this isn’t a way forward— you need to let time do its work, and think in a timescale of how you feel after every 6 month chunk rather than every month.

I know this might not be the answer you want to hear, but your plan to counteract the lingering antipsychotic malaise with dopamine agonists seems very risky for the low likelihood that it would succeed.

Indirect dopamine agonists (ie releasers or reuptake inhibitors) would certainly be a better option with regards to actually doing what you want, but those will be quite a bit more addictive, and you will likely still be disappointed in how little they work.

Is not my first time taking drugs for parkinson. I was given akineton twice and it helped with my movement. Drugs can be used for other purposes and this is an emergency situation for me. I was given a powerful dopamine antagonist for nothing. That is very dangerous and I want to fix things before they get worse. I don't think those addicting side effects would even happen because I feel emotionless. It's been a long time since I felt excited. I want to take up apomorphine because it has a very high affinity level. I'm sure I can take something for the vomiting side effects. I'm sure that heart side effect of the Cabergoline is rare. Also waiting for 6 months is torture, I have stuff to do and this situation I'm going through make things very difficult. I don't deserve this,it's horrible. I need something that has a high chance of working and dopamine agonists do the opposite of what dopamine antagonists do. They activate dopamine receptors. Also someone posted that cabergoline helped with his sexual side effects. Indirect dopamine agonists don't sound like they would help. This clopixol effect is so serious that artane,a medicine that use to make feel very good doesn't make feel good anymore. This is urgent and I need to fix this. Also please do you know why the drug effects are taking so long to wear off? It's almost 3 months. What is going on in my brain? The terrible doctors says it's supposed to last 1 month. It's been more than 1 month and I still feel the effects? Please can explain what is going on? Are my dopamine receptors still blocked?

 

[Skorpio]

Is not my first time taking drugs for parkinson. I was given akineton twice and it helped with my movement. Drugs can be used for other purposes and this is an emergency situation for me. I was given a powerful dopamine antagonist for nothing. That is very dangerous and I want to fix things before they get worse. I don't think those addicting side effects would even happen because I feel emotionless. It's been a long time since I felt excited. I want to take up apomorphine because it has a very high affinity level. I'm sure I can take something for the vomiting side effects. I'm sure that heart side effect of the Cabergoline is rare. Also waiting for 6 months is torture, I have stuff to do and this situation I'm going through make things very difficult. I don't deserve this,it's horrible. I need something that has a high chance of working and dopamine agonists do the opposite of what dopamine antagonists do. They activate dopamine receptors. Also someone posted that cabergoline helped with his sexual side effects. Indirect dopamine agonists don't sound like they would help. This clopixol effect is so serious that artane,a medicine that use to make feel very good doesn't make feel good anymore. This is urgent and I need to fix this. Also please do you know why the drug effects are taking so long to wear off? It's almost 3 months. What is going on in my brain? The terrible doctors says it's supposed to last 1 month. It's been more than 1 month and I still feel the effects? Please can explain what is going on? Are my dopamine receptors still blocked?

Akineton is just an antimuscarinic. It is not a dopamine agonists. I don’t have a bias against using drugs for purposes other than they are prescribed (I mean, look where we are), I just don’t believe that dopamine agonists will do what you want them to do.

Are you taking any other medications currently?

The half-life of clopentixol decanoate is supposed to be 19 days. (Scihub link of the paper wiki cites so the data can be explored beyond a single value) What dose were you on? In general I consider a drug washed out after 5 half lives or about 100 days. You may be experiencing some neural adaptations in the absence of the drug that outlast the duration of it.

Finally, dopamine agonists are unlikely to be outright perilous. Stop them at once if you begin to develop compulsive behaviors (ideally have somebody in your life know you are trying them so that can be unbiased in catching any problematic behaviors), but its not going to be deadly for you to try them out and see. I would certainly have low expectations going in if I were you though.

My main advice would be to let time do its thing. I am just over 3 months out from quitting kratom/7 hydroxy mitragynine after a 3 month run (but really have been on and off for the past few years averaging around one month in each state, with a few 6 month to yearlong periods of abstinence). I am really committed to this being a permanent cessation, and the past three months have sucked (despite the withdrawal being super mild). I will sometimes have days where I am craving so hard, all I can do is sit in a chair and do nothing, just stewing until the day passes and I feel better the next day.

Things are a little better than they were a month ago (though the first month was maybe the easiest, as I had the memory of kicking closer in my mind; also cravings incubate and increase for a few months after quitting), but I still feel like I am impaired in my utility and vigor. I hope that by this time next year I will have forgotten what a struggle it was.

Unfortunately the brain is really good at adapting to chemicals, but it does not forget those adaptions quickly. Think of this is a marathon, and good luck!

 

[Matthew01]

Akineton is just an antimuscarinic. It is not a dopamine agonists. I don’t have a bias against using drugs for purposes other than they are prescribed (I mean, look where we are), I just don’t believe that dopamine agonists will do what you want them to do.

Are you taking any other medications currently?

The half-life of clopentixol decanoate is supposed to be 19 days. (Scihub link of the paper wiki cites so the data can be explored beyond a single value) What dose were you on? In general I consider a drug washed out after 5 half lives or about 100 days. You may be experiencing some neural adaptations in the absence of the drug that outlast the duration of it.

Finally, dopamine agonists are unlikely to be outright perilous. Stop them at once if you begin to develop compulsive behaviors (ideally have somebody in your life know you are trying them so that can be unbiased in catching any problematic behaviors), but its not going to be deadly for you to try them out and see. I would certainly have low expectations going in if I were you though.

My main advice would be to let time do its thing. I am just over 3 months out from quitting kratom/7 hydroxy mitragynine after a 3 month run (but really have been on and off for the past few years averaging around one month in each state, with a few 6 month to yearlong periods of abstinence). I am really committed to this being a permanent cessation, and the past three months have sucked (despite the withdrawal being super mild). I will sometimes have days where I am craving so hard, all I can do is sit in a chair and do nothing, just stewing until the day passes and I feel better the next day.

Things are a little better than they were a month ago (though the first month was maybe the easiest, as I had the memory of kicking closer in my mind; also cravings incubate and increase for a few months after quitting), but I still feel like I am impaired in my utility and vigor. I hope that by this time next year I will have forgotten what a struggle it was.

Unfortunately the brain is really good at adapting to chemicals, but it does not forget those adaptions quickly. Think of this is a marathon, and good luck!

You don't believe that dopamine agonists would do what I want them to do? But they activate dopamine receptors, I'm planning on getting one to compete and replace the clopixol blocking my receptors. Is there something I'm missing here? Also I don't know the dose, those horrible doctors didn't tell me. It was given to me once and it's been bothering me for months. I just want to go back to feeling like a normal human being. Wait, are these neural adaptations you talk about temporary? I don't want to stay like this for the rest of my life. You said you're quitting a drug, I hope that you get better. My situation is really messed up, I was forcefully injected with a powerful antipsychotic that severely reduced my joy and motivation and also severely restricted my emotions. It's like I'm emotionless. Thinking is also hard and it feels dull. This adds nothing of benefit to my life and i felt suicidal when the drug was first given. I need a solution for this.

 

[Skorpio]

You don't believe that dopamine agonists would do what I want them to do? But they activate dopamine receptors, I'm planning on getting one to compete and replace the clopixol blocking my receptors. Is there something I'm missing here? Also I don't know the dose, those horrible doctors didn't tell me. It was given to me once and it's been bothering me for months. I just want to go back to feeling like a normal human being. Wait, are these neural adaptations you talk about temporary? I don't want to stay like this for the rest of my life. You said you're quitting a drug, I hope that you get better. My situation is really messed up, I was forcefully injected with a powerful antipsychotic that severely reduced my joy and motivation and also severely restricted my emotions. It's like I'm emotionless. Thinking is also hard and it feels dull. This adds nothing of benefit to my life and i felt suicidal when the drug was first given. I need a solution for this.

I don’t think you will feel this way forever. There are people here who have gained a lot back after multiple years of antipsychotic injections. Do all the “healthy” stuff like eating well (and try to eat a range of colors of vegetables), exercise, and when you can, engage in increasingly demanding tasks. You are not a passenger in your recovery.

Dopamine signaling is quite complex, and from what I’ve heard about these compounds, they aren’t super pleasant. They can help with sexual dysfunction (via prolactin), but they don’t tend to be abused (which is imo a good measure of how good a compound will make you feel).

If you try them start low and be careful and adjust your expectations so you aren’t crushed if they don’t work as well as you’d like.

Thanks for the well wishes my way. I frankly feel like I quit while the going was good for myself, those drugs got me through some difficult phases and even my last dose had me feeling quite good. I am just in a transitional period in life rn and don’t want to miss a good opportunity to clean up my act. I have personally been running a lot and really appreciating how that makes me feel.

 

[Matthew01]

I don’t think you will feel this way forever. There are people here who have gained a lot back after multiple years of antipsychotic injections. Do all the “healthy” stuff like eating well (and try to eat a range of colors of vegetables), exercise, and when you can, engage in increasingly demanding tasks. You are not a passenger in your recovery.

Dopamine signaling is quite complex, and from what I’ve heard about these compounds, they aren’t super pleasant. They can help with sexual dysfunction (via prolactin), but they don’t tend to be abused (which is imo a good measure of how good a compound will make you feel).

If you try them start low and be careful and adjust your expectations so you aren’t crushed if they don’t work as well as you’d like.

Thanks for the well wishes my way. I frankly feel like I quit while the going was good for myself, those drugs got me through some difficult phases and even my last dose had me feeling quite good. I am just in a transitional period in life rn and don’t want to miss a good opportunity to clean up my act. I have personally been running a lot and really appreciating how that makes me feel.

I forgot to ask something, would taking ritalin help with my situation? Also Is it true that using dopamine agonists would replace and mimic actual dopamine and would also lead to a shutddown in all natural dopamine production and a down regulation of dopamine transporters in a long run? I need to know I'm planning to get these pescribed drugs

 

[Skorpio]

I forgot to ask something, would taking ritalin help with my situation? Also Is it true that using dopamine agonists would replace and mimic actual dopamine and would also lead to a shutddown in all natural dopamine production and a down regulation of dopamine transporters in a long run? I need to know I'm planning to get these pescribed drugs

Ritalin seems like a more sensible choice, as long as you aren’t going through huge amounts of it daily. Disrupting sleep would not be good in the long run.

I don’t think dopamine agonists lead to reductions in dopamine release (long term), and frankly I think your goal with whatever you take should be to get off the substance once you don’t need it.

 

[Matthew01]

Ritalin seems like a more sensible choice, as long as you aren’t going through huge amounts of it daily. Disrupting sleep would not be good in the long run.

I don’t think dopamine agonists lead to reductions in dopamine release (long term), and frankly I think your goal with whatever you take should be to get off the substance once you don’t need it.

Can you give me some advice on what to tell another doctor so that he can give me the drugs I want? This feels very difficult.

 

[Skorpio]

Can you give me some advice on what to tell another doctor so that he can give me the drugs I want? This feels very difficult.

I don’t really know what to say to a doctor to get them to prescribe those things.

 

[bigjackaal96]

Dopamine signaling is quite complex, and from what I’ve heard about these compounds, they aren’t super pleasant. They can help with sexual dysfunction (via prolactin), but they don’t tend to be abused (which is imo a good measure of how good a compound will make you feel).

Dopamine affects how M1 & NMDA behave & can choke 5HT2 receptors. Dissos are manic producing because NMDA antagonism blocks the dysphoric traits of D1/D2 being very high, Which can also affect norepinephrine a receptor than can rival NMDA on being panic causing.

Any euphoria from Antipsychotic that aren't atypical Is actually from the brain switching to 5HT2 complex. His brain could've fallen back on serotonin once the the drug has wore off Is now dealing with sudden flood of Dopamine.

He could be suffering from Dopamine upregulation affecting how 5HT2 complex acts.

 

[Matthew01]

Dopamine affects how M1 & NMDA behave & can choke 5HT2 receptors. Dissos are manic producing because NMDA antagonism blocks the dysphoric traits of D1/D2 being very high, Which can also affect norepinephrine a receptor than can rival NMDA on being panic causing.

Any euphoria from Antipsychotic that aren't atypical Is actually from the brain switching to 5HT2 complex. His brain could've fallen back on serotonin once the the drug has wore off Is now dealing with sudden flood of Dopamine.

He could be suffering from Dopamine upregulation affecting how 5HT2 complex acts.

Do you know if there's anything I can do about my situation? Are there any drugs I can take? Please I am suffering. My emotions are severely restricted, I feel emotionless and my joy and motivation have been severely reduced. Thinking is hard and dull. All of this was caused by clopixol I was injected on April 15th.

 

[bigjackaal96]

Ask a doctor at this point.

 

[Matthew01]

Ask a doctor at this point.

I need to aquire some knowledge about this first,please I need help

 

[Keif' Richards]

This isn't really a question regarding psychoactive drugs/substances. This is more of a general pharmacology discussion but I guess I can't really argue that an antipsychotic is not psychoactive, so what the hell.

It gives me no pleasure OP, but what you're describing is not at all realistic. There are so many reasons, mostly that there are dozens of different variables at play here. Even if you came across a shred of information that you thought made sense, you then have to take into account the fact that your unique biology means you would have no choice but to run experiments on yourself with the "most likely" 5 or 6 candidates until you maybe come across one that you think works. Then you have to find the right dosage. These things are all theoretically possible, but logistically and practically impossible for 99% of average people to do.

Keep your eyes on the prize. If you were wrongly medicated, it will be over soon and you can live your life. There is no viable option to ending this aside from waiting it out.

 

[Matthew01]

This isn't really a question regarding psychoactive drugs/substances. This is more of a general pharmacology discussion but I guess I can't really argue that an antipsychotic is not psychoactive, so what the hell.

It gives me no pleasure OP, but what you're describing is not at all realistic. There are so many reasons, mostly that there are dozens of different variables at play here. Even if you came across a shred of information that you thought made sense, you then have to take into account the fact that your unique biology means you would have no choice but to run experiments on yourself with the "most likely" 5 or 6 candidates until you maybe come across one that you think works. Then you have to find the right dosage. These things are all theoretically possible, but logistically and practically impossible for 99% of average people to do.

Keep your eyes on the prize. If you were wrongly medicated, it will be over soon and you can live your life. There is no viable option to ending this aside from waiting it out.

But I read about people using dopamine agonists for this issue.also dopamine agonists activate dopamine receptors, my plan is get a dopamine agonist with a high affinity so that it can overpower it.it's been 3 months and living like this is torture,I feel emotionless a joyless,it feels like my life is over. I want to fix things by getting the opposite of the drugs. I don't think my unique biology would affect this, isn't it just to find to find a dopamine agonist with a high affinity so that it can overpower it?I've looked two potent dopamine agonists, apomorphine and cabergoline. I think these are the most potent dopamine agonists, I'm planning on using cabergoline because it last longer. I also looked up the interaction of apomorphine and the clopixol injection I received and it says it reduces the thereupitic efficacy of the drug. It has to work. Some guy in this site said it helped with the sexual side effect effects,maybe it might help me. The major problem is getting a doctor to pescribe it to me. Is there more information you want to give me about this? I really need help. I can't live life like this, it's suffering and the worst part is that I don't deserve this.