Heroin UK HEROIN - what do I do? re - Nitazene

[justme6263]

Hi all,

Got some Nitazene strips from my local drug charity - I used to test my most recent score and it confirmed nitazene but my question is what do I do? Is it safe to smoke? I am very ill informed around this stuff, don't want to end up in A&E but I also used my last 20 to score just...

 

[Helpmeescapethis]

You are wise to ask before blindly dosing yourself. Essentially all of the nitazenes available currently are either only very slightly less potent than fentanyl, or slightly more potent than fentanyl.


I would indeed stick to smoking as your ROA, starting with as little as you can measure out. I mean 5 mg at most. Since it’s cut in the heroin, this is probably overkill, but it doesn’t hurt to be safe rather than sorry. Gauge your reaction and doses from there. Do follow up.

 

[justme6263]

You are wise to ask before blindly dosing yourself. Essentially all of the nitazenes available currently are either only very slightly less potent than fentanyl, or slightly more potent than fentanyl.


I would indeed stick to smoking as your ROA, starting with as little as you can measure out. I mean 5 mg at most. Since it’s cut in the heroin, this is probably overkill, but it doesn’t hurt to be safe rather than sorry. Gauge your reaction and doses from there. Do follow up.

I took my time and took little amounts at a time too - I was fine but I worry so much now with these new compounds we are finding in the UK. I don't wait to fucking die just trying to score - I spoke to my dealer and told him the score, he has no clue what nitazene is or what it means so tried to explain to him but I doubt he will take it on board. What do we do to stay safe?

 

[Helpmeescapethis]

I took my time and took little amounts at a time too - I was fine but I worry so much now with these new compounds we are finding in the UK. I don't wait to fucking die just trying to score - I spoke to my dealer and told him the score, he has no clue what nitazene is or what it means so tried to explain to him but I doubt he will take it on board. What do we do to stay safe?

Use test strips on every batch, learn to use DNMs or switch to RCs like I did.

 

[drewbocop]

You couldn't pay me to use street dope in US or UK these days, man. Like the other guy said, I'd be DNM or nothin' and I'd still be testing extensively.

 

[JackARoe]

You are wise to ask before blindly dosing yourself.

Actually these guys are lucky to have you around Help. Thanks. You are setting a few fuzzy facts straight. Any info on nitazene needs people with experience and there have not been many. Just speculation and we know that is not always fact. So thanks for clearing up a few things.

Damn synthetics showing up everywhere. Poppy fields and heroin, that art should be preserved. But I don't think it is coming back and don't think any part of the world will completely escape this, at least for now. Even someone I know in Greece said any real heroin is weak and cut. And if it is strong it is synthetic. Not sure how true that is. I will say the topic needs more people with experience. I think you will save a life.

Glad I stopped the street in 1991. Back then people were dying FROM heroin because it was strong. Not too common but it happened. Not sure we hear that much anymore these days, all fentanyl overdoses and now possibly nitazene.

 

[4DQSAR]

Mate - the prototype of the class (etonitazine) was something like 1500 x morphine in potency in animal models.

But the problem is that 'nitazene' is a (inexact) description of a class of compound. So you still don't really know what you have.

So nobody can POSSIBLY tell you what an appropriate dose. I know etonitazine turned up in Russia in the late 80s and there were a LOT of deaths. Their answer was to tap the tobacco out of a cigarette, mix in the drug, carefully repack the cigarette then take a toke and pass the modified cigarette to the next person in the group. I assume this was so by the time the cigarette came around, a user would know if they wanted more.

I know they nicknamed it 'The Chinese Dwarf' although it was in fact being produced in Russia. I don't know if something is lost in translation and/or the vendors were conducting a 'false-flag' effort to suggest the stuff came from China.

Last I read there were 37 identified homologues. Some are only a few times more potent than morphine, one was some x 6000 morphine in animal models. That is a truly huge range.

I mean, the awful truth is that some users will let someone else test the gear but what annoys me is if the unlucky punter goes blue, the other users will often scatter, negleting to call the emergency services. It IS extremely dangerous for all the reasons I've given but the last one is that it may also contain another class of opioid and that could be something we don't even have test kits for.

 

[justme6263]

Use test strips on every batch, learn to use DNMs or switch to RCs like I did.

Thanks again mate - I do appreciate people like you taking the time to help people like me be more careful and more informed.

 

[justme6263]

Mate - the prototype of the class (etonitazine) was something like 1500 x morphine in potency in animal models.

But the problem is that 'nitazene' is a (inexact) description of a class of compound. So you still don't really know what you have.

So nobody can POSSIBLY tell you what an appropriate dose. I know etonitazine turned up in Russia in the late 80s and there were a LOT of deaths. Their answer was to tap the tobacco out of a cigarette, mix in the drug, carefully repack the cigarette then take a toke and pass the modified cigarette to the next person in the group. I assume this was so by the time the cigarette came around, a user would know if they wanted more.

I know they nicknamed it 'The Chinese Dwarf' although it was in fact being produced in Russia. I don't know if something is lost in translation and/or the vendors were conducting a 'false-flag' effort to suggest the stuff came from China.

Last I read there were 37 identified homologues. Some are only a few times more potent than morphine, one was some x 6000 morphine in animal models. That is a truly huge range.

I mean, the awful truth is that some users will let someone else test the gear but what annoys me is if the unlucky punter goes blue, the other users will often scatter, negleting to call the emergency services. It IS extremely dangerous for all the reasons I've given but the last one is that it may also contain another class of opioid and that could be something we don't even have test kits for.

I always have naloxone with me, at least a couple of them. However I almost always use alone and very very rarely use with other people. I've always got naloxone though and my parents (who I live with) know how to administer (Dad is a heroin addict himself).

 

[4DQSAR]

I always have naloxone with me, at least a couple of them. However I almost always use alone and very very rarely use with other people. I've always got naloxone though and my parents (who I live with) know how to administer (Dad is a heroin addict himself).

Ah - I hope you have several. I say this because I'm in contact with HR workers in North America and they are finding cases where it took two or three doses to reverse the effects of a fentanyl (or homologue) OD.

Also, if you have those yellow boxes, check there are pins in there. I was given a box of them to hand out. I opened on up to check and was horrified to discover 'NO PIN'. Others have told me this has now been fixed but who knows?

Better to have something and not need it than to need something and not have it.

 

[JackARoe]

@4DQSAR, Are, or will they ever (nitrazenes) be used in medicine in your opinion? Will we ever see use for it in a hospital?

 

[4DQSAR]

@4DQSAR, Are, or will they ever (nitrazenes) be used in medicine in your opinion? Will we ever see use for it in a hospital?

I think it highly unlikely. No way to get patent protection and it costs around 13 years and around £1 billion to develop a new medication and if someone could simply introduce a cheap generic day one, it wouldn't work financially. In addition, there are several clinical issues. At least some of the homologues are classed as 'super-agonists' and a compound that is both highly potent and a super-agonist... well, it's going to produce severe dependence even at the low doses used in medicines.

It IS used in animal studies. The reason being that the extreme potency means it's tasteless in solution. It's to remove a potential bias. The animals choosing to consume (or not) based on taste.

I'm still not quite certain how etonitazene managed to find even that niche use. I SUSPECT that Ciba offered it free to researchers and once a few papers use etonitazine as the reference compound, it would make sense to later papers to do the same to ensure that like was being compared with like.

Never lose sight of the fact that ultimately, pharmacutical companies are for-profit and they really are unethical. I mean you wouldn't believe the shady stuff that goes on.

 

[justme6263]

I think it highly unlikely. No way to get patent protection and it costs around 13 years and around £1 billion to develop a new medication and if someone could simply introduce a cheap generic day one, it wouldn't work financially. In addition, there are several clinical issues. At least some of the homologues are classed as 'super-agonists' and a compound that is both highly potent and a super-agonist... well, it's going to produce severe dependence even at the low doses used in medicines.

It IS used in animal studies. The reason being that the extreme potency means it's tasteless in solution. It's to remove a potential bias. The animals choosing to consume (or not) based on taste.

I'm still not quite certain how etonitazene managed to find even that niche use. I SUSPECT that Ciba offered it free to researchers and once a few papers use etonitazine as the reference compound, it would make sense to later papers to do the same to ensure that like was being compared with like.

Never lose sight of the fact that ultimately, pharmacutical companies are for-profit and they really are unethical. I mean you wouldn't believe the shady stuff that goes on.

MAte can I ask a question - I am on a fresh start maintenance program this coming Tuesday, something I have been fighting for since December so thank the lord! Until then I need to use to stat well - so my question is will the fact my usual score has gear that contain nitazenes affect that Espranor mainatence programe? I do not want to go back on to methadone because I just use on top and I do not what that but I worry I have fucked up due to the nitazenes?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Helpmeescapethis]

MAte can I ask a question - I am on a fresh start maintenance program this coming Tuesday, something I have been fighting for since December so thank the lord! Until then I need to use to stat well - so my question is will the fact my usual score has gear that contain nitazenes affect that Espranor mainatence programe? I do not want to go back on to methadone because I just use on top and I do not what that but I worry I have fucked up due to the nitazenes?

Thanks in advance.

Your tolerance may be a bit higher than the average heroin user, so the hype may take a bit longer for you to feel fully stabilized. But I doubt you’ll have trouble, really. You say you’re getting Espranor, so you could maximize the absorption by holding it under your tongue and absorbing the saliva for as long as possible, instead of just letting it dissolve on top of your tongue for 15 seconds.

 

[4DQSAR]

MAte can I ask a question - I am on a fresh start maintenance program this coming Tuesday, something I have been fighting for since December so thank the lord! Until then I need to use to stat well - so my question is will the fact my usual score has gear that contain nitazenes affect that Espranor mainatence programe? I do not want to go back on to methadone because I just use on top and I do not what that but I worry I have fucked up due to the nitazenes?

Thanks in advance.

It's almost totally unresearched. All I can tell you is that one one opioid classed as a superagonist use in the UL is tepentadol. I noted that a doctor submitted a detoxification programme and what was interesting to me is that patents were not swapped to methadone or buprenorphine. But nitazenes is just a class so I'm not assering they are ALL superagonists.

I have no idea if this is because tapentadol also monkeys around with monoamines and THAT is why substitution isn't appropriate and/or because even a full agonist will not fullly substitute or indeed if there are other things in play.

For the record, my worry is that nitazenes furst turned up in Russia in the late 1980s and I assume only they would have data although that said, Russia in the late 80s was falling apart with not much money to offer methadone substitution never mind study a rare novel opioid. If those users discovered even street H wouldn't substitute, how would anyone know?

But in short, nobody can forecast the outcomes. It's only when we have enough data that we will know.

 

[justme6263]

It's almost totally unresearched. All I can tell you is that one one opioid classed as a superagonist use in the UL is tepentadol. I noted that a doctor submitted a detoxification programme and what was interesting to me is that patents were not swapped to methadone or buprenorphine. But nitazenes is just a class so I'm not assering they are ALL superagonists.

I have no idea if this is because tapentadol also monkeys around with monoamines and THAT is why substitution isn't appropriate and/or because even a full agonist will not fullly substitute or indeed if there are other things in play.

For the record, my worry is that nitazenes furst turned up in Russia in the late 1980s and I assume only they would have data although that said, Russia in the late 80s was falling apart with not much money to offer methadone substitution never mind study a rare novel opioid. If those users discovered even street H wouldn't substitute, how would anyone know?

But in short, nobody can forecast the outcomes. It's only when we have enough data that we will know.

Your tolerance may be a bit higher than the average heroin user, so the hype may take a bit longer for you to feel fully stabilized. But I doubt you’ll have trouble, really. You say you’re getting Espranor, so you could maximize the absorption by holding it under your tongue and absorbing the saliva for as long as possible, instead of just letting it dissolve on top of your tongue for 15 seconds.

Thanks to both of you for the response.

I have started my maintenance programe today on Esranor titration - 8mg today and then 16mg tomorrow and the same every day moving forward - I'll be honest and this 8mg has held me much better than I expected. It is completely manageable aside from slight discomfort and as a result I am not sure I need to be on 16mg. Do you think it is worth asking to be put up to 10mg rather than doubling my dose and my thinking it that when I am, eventually ready, to start tapering my espranor maintenance sometime in the future - would being on a lesser daily dose of 10mg be easier than coming down from 16mg? 16mg feels very high a dose to me considering my daily habit was 4 bags...

Sorry for the constant questions but I really appreciate the help from everyone.

Mate - the prototype of the class (etonitazine) was something like 1500 x morphine in potency in animal models.

But the problem is that 'nitazene' is a (inexact) description of a class of compound. So you still don't really know what you have.

So nobody can POSSIBLY tell you what an appropriate dose. I know etonitazine turned up in Russia in the late 80s and there were a LOT of deaths. Their answer was to tap the tobacco out of a cigarette, mix in the drug, carefully repack the cigarette then take a toke and pass the modified cigarette to the next person in the group. I assume this was so by the time the cigarette came around, a user would know if they wanted more.

I know they nicknamed it 'The Chinese Dwarf' although it was in fact being produced in Russia. I don't know if something is lost in translation and/or the vendors were conducting a 'false-flag' effort to suggest the stuff came from China.

Last I read there were 37 identified homologues. Some are only a few times more potent than morphine, one was some x 6000 morphine in animal models. That is a truly huge range.

I mean, the awful truth is that some users will let someone else test the gear but what annoys me is if the unlucky punter goes blue, the other users will often scatter, negleting to call the emergency services. It IS extremely dangerous for all the reasons I've given but the last one is that it may also contain another class of opioid and that could be something we don't even have test kits for.

This has happened to myself when I shot up gear once - the one and only time - but luckily I was with a cousin who used naloxone on me and waitied for the paramedics. Its also happened to me with a friend and we had no naloxone around at all - every other fucker ran but me and my cousin stayed and gave CPR until the Paramedics arrived. I have no time for users who leave a man down to most likely die if they're left alone.

This saying always sticks with me - "there but the grace of God go I". Its a terrible thing for another addict to do and leave one of our own to die, alone.

 

[4DQSAR]

Thanks to both of you for the response.

I have started my maintenance programe today on Esranor titration - 8mg today and then 16mg tomorrow and the same every day moving forward - I'll be honest and this 8mg has held me much better than I expected. It is completely manageable aside from slight discomfort and as a result I am not sure I need to be on 16mg. Do you think it is worth asking to be put up to 10mg rather than doubling my dose.

Yes - in fact stick with 8mg.

It's all to get you on the highest dose - MORE MONEY!

If they refuse - buy a pill cutter and over 2 weeks cut down from 8mg to zero. That is how buprenorphine is SUPPOSED to be used. Not for maintainance. I've read the original Bentley papers and they clearly said it's utility was in reducing AWS and not maintainance.

 

[justme6263]

Yes - in fact stick with 8mg.

It's all to get you on the highest dose - MORE MONEY!

If they refuse - buy a pill cutter and over 2 weeks cut down from 8mg to zero. That is how buprenorphine is SUPPOSED to be used. Not for maintainance. I've read the original Bentley papers and they clearly said it's utility was in reducing AWS and not maintainance.

Right I didn't realise that. Tbh I think that I might get something out of the blocking aspect of Espranor for a while - I'm not sure I would be in the right head space to come down over two weeks as then I might still have the mental addiction if that makes sense? At least if I have the blocker in my system I won't be able to use should a situation arise where I am weak and want to use. Or do I have this aspect of it wrong? Sorry for the questions I am just quite clueless about it all - it was explained to me that they use this long term to stabalise me while I do the work to address the reasons I use and then come out stronger with the head space and mental attitude to resist the temptations.

 

[4DQSAR]

Don't forget - buprenorphine simply competes for the receptors. Yeah, it does take a very high dose to blockade a traditional opioid, but not for the 24 hours they claim.

I've watched someone consume 8mg of buprenorphine in the morning and go on and get hammered with H in the evening. BUT what it did do was to reduce their depencence. Clearly no health professional clients to know THAT detail.

After all, for pain it's given TID.

 

[justme6263]

Don't forget - buprenorphine simply competes for the receptors. Yeah, it does take a very high dose to blockade a traditional opioid, but not for the 24 hours they claim.

I've watched someone consume 8mg of buprenorphine in the morning and go on and get hammered with H in the evening. BUT what it did do was to reduce their depencence. Clearly no health professional clients to know THAT detail.

After all, for pain it's given TID.

Truly thank you for the information - you've given me a lot to think about.