Opioids Oxycodone withdrawal. Need help with sleep and wondering about the timeline of when it will end.

[db7132]

Hey guys. Oxy addict here for 2 years and 4 months with a one week break 2 months ago, now taking 33% more than I originally was. I was curious how much longer I have in this withdrawal process. I started to feel better yesterday now randomly feel achy again plus hot flashes and insomnia. I am 6.5-7 days in. I did this once before but it took like 6-7 days, although that was hydrocodone/codeine and less mg. I was on 200mg per day for about 6 months after I quit the hydros last time. Please let me know if anyone has gone through this before and knows the timeline. I have heard 5 days, 7 days, even 10 days (hopefully not). Also, any thoughts on how to sleep? I took 20mg diazepam, 50mg THC edible, and 25mg ambien last night and i still couldnt sleep for longer than 2 hours. I also tried to go through this same withdrawal when taking 150mg/ day (50x3/day) but I got to this exact point in time where i couldnt take it anymore and my doctor refilled my prescription and i restarted everything at this same 6-7 day mark. I am now at 7.5 days and still feeling the RLS a bit and insomnia is terrible. Last dose began with 50mg orally and then 120mg nasally over the course of 6 hours which ended at 1:15am (the early morning of Tuesday June 10th).

 

[4DQSAR]

Oxycodone undergoes first-pass metabolism by the liver. Around 10% of any dose of oxycodone is converted to oxymorphone which is around ten times more active than oxycodone. So I'm pretty sure that if snorted, while the onset is much faster, the trush is you are getting less relief compared to simply swallowing the stuff.

Many people say condumption of grapefruit juice increases the duration of action and the potency of oral oxycodone. The reason for this is that grapefruit juice contains several compounds that blocks one of the key enzymes responsible for the metabolism of oxycodone into inactive metabolites. Noroxycodone and noroxymorphone to be exact.

One study showed that grapefruit juice increased the area under the curve (plasma level sufficient to prevent AWS) by around x1.7. I'm a little dubious that abuse of grapefruit juice could result in someone getting a bigger habit, but for reduction, if you have a limited supply, it MAY be appropriate for you.

Good luck, and never forget that it doesn't matter how many times you fall down as long as you get up again and keep going.

 

[db7132]

Oxycodone undergoes first-pass metabolism by the liver. Around 10% of any dose of oxycodone is converted to oxymorphone which is around ten times more active than oxycodone. So I'm pretty sure that if snorted, while the onset is much faster, the trush is you are getting less relief compared to simply swallowing the stuff.

Many people say condumption of grapefruit juice increases the duration of action and the potency of oral oxycodone. The reason for this is that grapefruit juice contains several compounds that blocks one of the key enzymes responsible for the metabolism of oxycodone into inactive metabolites. Noroxycodone and noroxymorphone to be exact.

One study showed that grapefruit juice increased the area under the curve (plasma level sufficient to prevent AWS) by around x1.7. I'm a little dubious that abuse of grapefruit juice could result in someone getting a bigger habit, but for reduction, if you have a limited supply, it MAY be appropriate for you.

Good luck, and never forget that it doesn't matter how many times you fall down as long as you get up again and keep going.

Thanks so much for the reply. I have never used grapefruit juice to enhance the half life or prolong the effects of the drug. I just want to know when this will end to be honest. Last time it took 6-7 days and now I am on day 8 still going through it. Most I have heard from people is 10 days for IR oxys but i hope is ends tomorrow at the 8.5 day mark because I have a meeting I need to make and i am still pretty weak. Worst of it is gone though. Do you or anyone else have any advice on the timeline of the withdrawal?

 

[Deleted member 585202]

Everyone is different, but you should start seeing marked improvements on day 8.

I took 20mg diazepam, 50mg THC edible, and 25mg ambien last night and i still couldnt sleep for longer than 2 hours.

That's shitty.

I would maybe stop the weed. Personally it just makes me feel like absolute shit when withdrawing from opioids/benzos/booze. I would never take it in withdrawal.

Weed can cause insomnia.

If I was in your shoes, I would pick up some magnesium taurate, black seed oil, and ashwaghanda. They will help a bit, especially once you're past the acute withdrawals. Also take mega doses of vitamin C (like 10,000mg+ per day, the more the better. Take as much as your stomach can handle (it's an acid so high doses can cause some stomach discomfort).

You got this man. You're about to start feeling better really soon. Don't give up.

 

[Deleted member 585202]

Many people say condumption of grapefruit juice increases the duration of action and the potency of oral oxycodone. The reason for this is that grapefruit juice contains several compounds that blocks one of the key enzymes responsible for the metabolism of oxycodone into inactive metabolites. Noroxycodone and noroxymorphone to be exact.

One study showed that grapefruit juice increased the area under the curve (plasma level sufficient to prevent AWS) by around x1.7. I'm a little dubious that abuse of grapefruit juice could result in someone getting a bigger habit, but for reduction, if you have a limited supply, it MAY be appropriate for you.

I read a highly specific study about how Grapefruit juice interacts with oxycodone specifically. With maximal CYP inhibition (takes 4-5 days of drinking it to reach max iirc), it increased the duration of effects by up to 20%, but doesn't significantly increase plasma levels.

Also, one vital tip a lot of people don't know is that it MUST be fresh squeezed juice. Pasteurization and processing destroys the active chemical. Store bought juice does absolutely nothing. The chemical is very fragile once it leaves the fruit body.

I could see it being fairly useful in tapering or withdrawal.

 

[db7132]

Everyone is different, but you should start seeing marked improvements on day 8.


That's shitty.

I would maybe stop the weed. Personally it just makes me feel like absolute shit when withdrawing from opioids/benzos/booze. I would never take it in withdrawal.

Weed can cause insomnia.

If I was in your shoes, I would pick up some magnesium taurate, black seed oil, and ashwaghanda. They will help a bit, especially once you're past the acute withdrawals. Also take mega doses of vitamin C (like 10,000mg+ per day, the more the better. Take as much as your stomach can handle (it's an acid so high doses can cause some stomach discomfort).

You got this man. You're about to start feeling better really soon. Don't give up.

Yeah that’s what I thought but i am still pretty messed up. I am doing better but i wouldnt be able to go to work like this. Have you gone through this before and, if so, how long did it tske for you to at least be able to function on a normal basis?

 

[Skorpio]

If I was in your shoes, I would pick up some magnesium taurate, black seed oil, and ashwaghanda. They will help a bit, especially once you're past the acute withdrawals. Also take mega doses of vitamin C (like 10,000mg+ per day, the more the better. Take as much as your stomach can handle (it's an acid so high doses can cause some stomach discomfort).

Chelated magnesium is such a lifesaver. It is one of the few supplements I feel when sober (makes my muscles feel better after a run).

One way to make the vitamin c a little easier on the tummy is to use sodium ascorbate, which still retains the anti-oxidant/redox potential of ascorbic acid, but lacks an acidic proton so it is a neutral pH.

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

Everyone is different, but you should start seeing marked improvements on day 8.


That's shitty.

I would maybe stop the weed. Personally it just makes me feel like absolute shit when withdrawing from opioids/benzos/booze. I would never take it in withdrawal.

Weed can cause insomnia.

If I was in your shoes, I would pick up some magnesium taurate, black seed oil, and ashwaghanda. They will help a bit, especially once you're past the acute withdrawals. Also take mega doses of vitamin C (like 10,000mg+ per day, the more the better. Take as much as your stomach can handle (it's an acid so high doses can cause some stomach discomfort).

You got this man. You're about to start feeling better really soon. Don't give up.

Just wondering what the vitamin c is good for here?

 

[Deleted member 585202]

Just wondering what the vitamin c is good for here?

There is plenty of evidence that it significantly reduces withdrawal symptoms for opioids.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0024320583905271

Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) effects on withdrawal syndrome of heroin abusers - PubMed

The results indicate that high doses of ascorbic acid administered orally, may ameliorate the withdrawal syndrome of heroin addicts. Further studies are needed in order to estimate the dose- and time-dependent effects of ascorbic acid treatment, and to clarify its mechanisms of action in the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[4DQSAR]

I read a highly specific study about how Grapefruit juice interacts with oxycodone specifically. With maximal CYP inhibition (takes 4-5 days of drinking it to reach max iirc), it increased the duration of effects by up to 20%, but doesn't significantly increase plasma levels.

Was that the paper in which a cohort drank 100mL grapefruit juice QID?

I only ask because other sources appear to claim that the inhibition only lasts for 12 hours. Which would totally fit, but I don't recall enzyme levels being tested - they just gave people juice for 5 days and then looked at the area under the curve compared to the placebo group. In that case the area increased by x1.7 BUT that was opioid-naive individuals. So does it work the same for people with tolerance? Because that AUC is the point below which analgesia ceased.

 

[Deleted member 585202]

Chelated magnesium is such a lifesaver. It is one of the few supplements I feel when sober (makes my muscles feel better after a run).

Yep. It's my favorite supplement by far. The effect is immediate and palpable, and seemingly no side effects with the taurine conjugate.

Magnesium glycinate gave me a severely bad reaction, I'm assuming because of my history of alcoholism and gabaergic abuse. It had me fucked up in a really bad way very similar to paradoxical benzo reactions. Instead of inhibiting glutamine, it released it. Just one dose of mag glycinate gave me 2-3 days of anxiety, agitation, irritability and insomnia.

It was a remarkably bad experience, in contrast with the taurate version which has no discernable side effects for me and I love.

I've been wanting to try the other versions like threonate.

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

Yep. It's my favorite supplement by far. The effect is immediate and palpable, and seemingly no side effects with the taurine conjugate.

Magnesium glycinate gave me a severely bad reaction, I'm assuming because of my history of alcoholism and gabaergic abuse. It had me fucked up in a really bad way very similar to paradoxical benzo reactions. Instead of inhibiting glutamine, it released it. Just one dose of mag glycinate gave me 2-3 days of anxiety, agitation, irritability and insomnia.

It was a remarkably bad experience, in contrast with the taurate version which has no discernable side effects for me and I love.

I've been wanting to try the other versions like threonate.

What about simple Mg citrate?

 

[Skorpio]

What about simple Mg citrate?

That should do a good job getting the magnesium into you. In general the organic magnesium salts (ie the counterion contains carbon) are head and shoulders above inorganic options like sulfate or oxide. However magnesium chloride is pretty bioavailable, so it’s more of a guideline rather than a rule.

I think there may be some application of Hard soft acid base theory that could explain it, but I typed out a confident answer and realized it couldn’t be right so I’m just going to end on my gut feeling for now.

Yep. It's my favorite supplement by far. The effect is immediate and palpable, and seemingly no side effects with the taurine conjugate.

Magnesium glycinate gave me a severely bad reaction, I'm assuming because of my history of alcoholism and gabaergic abuse. It had me fucked up in a really bad way very similar to paradoxical benzo reactions. Instead of inhibiting glutamine, it released it. Just one dose of mag glycinate gave me 2-3 days of anxiety, agitation, irritability and insomnia.

It was a remarkably bad experience, in contrast with the taurate version which has no discernable side effects for me and I love.

I've been wanting to try the other versions like threonate.

Hmm that’s interesting about the glycinate. I knew a professor who’s grad school professor apparently got a fresh bottle of glycine in and they each tasted it (apparently it’s kind of sweet). Glycine itself should be inhibitory, via the glycine site on NMDA receptors and the glycine receptors themselves (though the only pharmacological agent I know of that acts on them primarily is the antagonist, strychnine). Furthermore, brain levels should be highly regulated as it is actively transported across the blood-brain barrier. I wonder if the negative effects you experienced were due to something hairier like high glycine levels effecting metabolism or transport of other amino acids, or possibly some response to peripheral signaling.

Threonate sounds cool, as I like some threonine with my caffiene, so it’s a true dual function salt. I wonder how hard it would be to make magnesium gabapentinate, phenibutate, or pregabalinate. Those all are amino acids and I don’t see any reason why they couldn’t coordinate a magnesium ion.

 

[Them Witches]

10 days. expect 10 days no less. Even with the basic comforting meds. You need Phenobarbital, Clonidine, a muscle relaxer, and a good sleep med is the only way to feel half-way normal. The only way to get that combo is the pysch ward

 

[Deleted member 585202]

That should do a good job getting the magnesium into you. In general the organic magnesium salts (ie the counterion contains carbon) are head and shoulders above inorganic options like sulfate or oxide. However magnesium chloride is pretty bioavailable, so it’s more of a guideline rather than a rule.

I think there may be some application of Hard soft acid base theory that could explain it, but I typed out a confident answer and realized it couldn’t be right so I’m just going to end on my gut feeling for now.


Hmm that’s interesting about the glycinate. I knew a professor who’s grad school professor apparently got a fresh bottle of glycine in and they each tasted it (apparently it’s kind of sweet). Glycine itself should be inhibitory, via the glycine site on NMDA receptors and the glycine receptors themselves (though the only pharmacological agent I know of that acts on them primarily is the antagonist, strychnine). Furthermore, brain levels should be highly regulated as it is actively transported across the blood-brain barrier. I wonder if the negative effects you experienced were due to something hairier like high glycine levels effecting metabolism or transport of other amino acids, or possibly some response to peripheral signaling.

It's weird indeed. Glycine shroud be very weak overall. The effect it had on me was profound.

I'm not the only one with that reaction, apparently it's not that uncommon. Various reports on Reddit.

But I'm also the type who experiences paradoxical benzo effects sometimes. As I now understand, it occurs after prolonged use of alcohol and benzos. Something changes in my receptors, and signals that should be inhibitory become inducing.

 

[ThugLifeTyson]

Have you thought about trying 7OH? I used it to get off an oxy prescription of 100mg/day. I’m sure it will be another process when I decide to stop taking it but I feel much healthier than when I did taking oxy.

 

[Them Witches]

Here is a great plan. Get 10qty Methadone 10mg tablets for the first 2-3 days to ease some of the initial withdrawal. Get Clonidine for as long as needed (do not take this sick and go shoot up it will cause an OD, even if it is the next day).

Get a bunch of Seroquel for everyday to knock you out and sleep most of the way through it. Seroquel & Clonidine will be the be your best tools because you will sleeping with a chikk BP/Pu and relaxed. You will thank me especially if you have no tolerance to Clonidine or Seroquel.

Even throughout every other day take 7-OH + PI. Another great tool but it can prolong the detox.