Alcohol Alcohol vs. Benzos. Which one is more euphoric/awesome?

[4DQSAR]

Alcohol is definitely more euphoric simply because it hits much more than just GABA receptor sites.

Well, we used a cohort of 136 people (I think - may have been 133) and of them, all but 2 stated it to be superior to ethanol.

But 136 is still quite a small cohort and half of them were dependent alcohol users.

But I would be surprised if ANY other compound than ethanol could precicely emuate the subjective effects of ethanol in 100% of the people.

I think it also important to consider that the a1 subtype DOES produce euphoria in some people. It produces dopamine disihibition. But we also asked if the dependent alcohol users had struggled with addiction to nitrobenzodiazepines and/or Z-drus as both have signigicant a1 bias. Yeah, quite a few did. So even when just considering GABA receptors, you have to ask what is considered a positive and negative subjective effect.

Some people LIKE loss of exective control i.e. doing dumb stuff. Some people LIKE falling over and passing out. Some people LIKE amnesia. So I guess it all depends on what you think a positive IS. We had to have someone help design the study to get the most out of a limited budget.

BTW you have to get to very high doses before ethanol has significant action on other classes of receptor - or at least the study suggested that. But more studies are needed. We did not venture beyond 30mg due to the steep dose/response curve. I mean, one of us DID take more... and immediately fell asleep so we figured it wouldn't be a useful study if we went there.

 

[pcplease]

Well - we all really believed in the product... but equally we were provided with funding. Not much but sufficient to get the first generation into cohort sizes normally encountered in a Stage 2 drug trial. But the stuff 'failed to reach clinical endpoints' due to that unfortunate dose-response curve. BUT it proved the concept.

Someone DID read out patent so it ended up being sold as Pyeyzolam by RC vendors.

But the second generation 'Supercats' are known only to few and with no patent yet applied for, in theory if someone ever took an interest, it MAY evetually get that GSL... but don't bank on it. Brewing provides 33 million jobs whereas I imagine a dedicated production-line for one of the Supercat compounds would provide more like 200 jobs. So you see the problem here?

ONLY when alcohol is viewed like tobacco can we hope for those multinational alcohol companies to seriously seek an alternative. Which likely won't be in my lifetime. My son has all the data so who knows? HE can get the patent if and when it seems viable.

sadly i have never seen pyeyzolam offered or mentioned other than here on bluelight. even if inefficient per dose , if it works as well you say would probably be a guinea pig. i wish i had stocked up pyrazolam as well

 

[4DQSAR]

sadly i have never seen pyeyzolam offered or mentioned other than here on bluelight. even if inefficient per dose , if it works as well you say would probably be a guinea pig. i wish i had stocked up pyrazolam as well

It was commercially available for a while. I would GUESS that somewhere there is still a few grams that were made but without knowing the optimum storage conditions, vendors would have to retest to check if decomposition had occured thus rendering it useless as a reference sandard.

BUT I bet it still works - N-oxidation was the main decomposition product and the body will reduce the N-oxide so at worst... just slightly less potent.

I don't recall who was offering it - but it may be worth asking. If they can't use it as a reference standard, any price is a saving on the invested cost of making the sample.

 

[pcplease]

i assume one of the many EU sources ive never been privy to (or known they didnt ship to US) that put out other novel RC benzos/thienos which I was never able to try

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

Oh so it only applies to RCs?

Thats fine it’s not like scheduling them has ever stopped their trafficking and plus there are plenty of prescribed alternatives.


What is the next legal benzo in the RC scene that isn’t going to be scheduled yet or really on the radar?

Yes but the ban appears to be ending -- which to me means potentially legal sources of benzos -- which to everyone else will mean a price drop. (Depending how much pull the US still has buying power wise I suppose be we overdo EVERYTHING) lol

 

[pcplease]

Yes but the ban appears to be ending -- which to me means potentially legal sources of benzos -- which to everyone else will mean a price drop. (Depending how much pull the US still has buying power wise I suppose be we overdo EVERYTHING) lol

the US ban didnt really matter. we werent producing them here.what matters is that they were subsequently banned in China. That temporary scheduling might have been a factor in them being outlawed in China, but I dont expect China to reverse their ban.

you aren't likely to get more of a price drop than you already have now. no price talk, but i believe I can say that it barely costs any more to buy say 1000 fake 4mg xanax, than buying 4g of the raw powder itself. often <20% or less. have seen them at the same price during promos/sales.

im a volumetric dosing guy so i dont pay a ton of attention to prices but its crazy to me how cheap they are and i cannot see them ever getting noticeably cheaper

 

[lost weekend]

Oh so it only applies to RCs?

Thats fine it’s not like scheduling them has ever stopped their trafficking and plus there are plenty of prescribed alternatives.


What is the next legal benzo in the RC scene that isn’t going to be scheduled yet or really on the radar?

Excuse my ignorance whats a rc

 

[lost weekend]

Alcohol is definitely more euphoric simply because it hits much more than just GABA receptor sites.

For a long time until somebody on here explained it I always wondered why benzos and other sedatives i've tried felt nice... but just nice like they were missing something that didn't quite measure up to booze. It's also why over the years I've come to feel like mixing alcohol with other downers even weed or opiates takes away from what makes booze so special, at least in my experience.

A couple of last thoughts that moreish stimmy feel to alcohol is the best and absolute worst thing about that particular substance and probably also why it goes so bloody good with tonies, and dartskies, aaand if anyone knows a less poisonous way to recreate the alcohol buzz I'm all ears.

Was in thailand recently and had trouble sleeping ,went to chemist (not to obtain benzoz) and the lady gave me gabapeptein 300mg .took 3 at once and sat by the beach bar drinking rum coctails ,I tell you it was like coming up on ecstacy ,I wouldnt shut up .

 

[lost weekend]

Alcohol is definitely more euphoric simply because it hits much more than just GABA receptor sites.

For a long time until somebody on here explained it I always wondered why benzos and other sedatives i've tried felt nice... but just nice like they were missing something that didn't quite measure up to booze. It's also why over the years I've come to feel like mixing alcohol with other downers even weed or opiates takes away from what makes booze so special, at least in my experience.

A couple of last thoughts that moreish stimmy feel to alcohol is the best and absolute worst thing about that particular substance and probably also why it goes so bloody good with tonies, and dartskies, aaand if anyone knows a less poisonous way to recreate the alcohol buzz I'm all ears.

Try gabapentin it seems to potentiate other drugs especially alcohol but be carefull with depressed breathing and all that

 

[foodcrisis]

Excuse my ignorance whats a rc

"research chemical"... there are new drugs that come out and they aren't always illegal right away, so they will sell them online. some of them stay legal for longer than others... they've had stimulants, psychedelics and benzos avaliable, i think disassocs and maybe other types of drugs.... we can't really tell you what sites to buy from, but you can hear about new drugs through this site and research where to get them on other parts of the net... kind of sucks most boards, not even reddit let you source anymore. a couple years ago there was a lot of sourcing through reddit.

 

[foodcrisis]

to answer this thread benzos just make me tired or take the edge off in smaller doses. they've never been fun. they are a far better and well rested sleep for me than alcohol... alcohol can be enjoyable to party with in moderation. not really the greatest drug on the planet. can't say i've never had a good time with it. i don't really drink anymore, but think about doing it again every now and then... sometimes i feel stronger about wanting to drink again than others. wouldn't be able to bring myself to drink enough to get drunk, but probably would enjoy a buzz.. if i started, i might end up doing it all the time though... alcohol doesn't always agree with my spinal/CNS injury at this point. i get shitty hang overs from a little bit, but my back has definitely healed over the past couple years, so i get tempted to drink.. honestly the alcohol made the injury feel weaker even before it got very bad. idk what was up with that... so mostly no to alcohol although i have fond memories... i would use benzos to sleep occassionally. mostly i use pot for that.

 

[pcplease]

it definitely might make your pain worse again. besides destroying my liver, I had to have my hips replaced at a very young age due to "alcoholic avascular necrosis". lack of blood flow from vasoconstriction+ tons of tiny blood vessels in the hips = they crumbled away. plus it plain weakens muscles. a few years ago when revisiting booze for a couple months, my hips started getting really sore- enough to see my orthopedic dr who said retaining fluid. and it happened quickly, even though I was only having a few beers per night.

YMMV , but it may have something to do with vasoconstriction and/or fluid retention like that.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

the US ban didnt really matter. we werent producing them here.what matters is that they were subsequently banned in China. That temporary scheduling might have been a factor in them being outlawed in China, but I dont expect China to reverse their ban.

you aren't likely to get more of a price drop than you already have now. no price talk, but i believe I can say that it barely costs any more to buy say 1000 fake 4mg xanax, than buying 4g of the raw powder itself. often <20% or less. have seen them at the same price during promos/sales.

im a volumetric dosing guy so i dont pay a ton of attention to prices but its crazy to me how cheap they are and i cannot see them ever getting noticeably cheaper

Thank you! Okay I was unaware it was a ban in China to be honest. Yea you are right it doesn't mean the celebration I was hoping . (I have been wondering what I was missing!)

 

[paranoid android]

Temazepam is far more euphoric then alcohol imo

 

[burn out]

Well, we used a cohort of 136 people (I think - may have been 133) and of them, all but 2 stated it to be superior to ethanol.

But 136 is still quite a small cohort and half of them were dependent alcohol users.

But I would be surprised if ANY other compound than ethanol could precicely emuate the subjective effects of ethanol in 100% of the people.

I think it also important to consider that the a1 subtype DOES produce euphoria in some people. It produces dopamine disihibition. But we also asked if the dependent alcohol users had struggled with addiction to nitrobenzodiazepines and/or Z-drus as both have signigicant a1 bias. Yeah, quite a few did. So even when just considering GABA receptors, you have to ask what is considered a positive and negative subjective effect.

Some people LIKE loss of exective control i.e. doing dumb stuff. Some people LIKE falling over and passing out. Some people LIKE amnesia. So I guess it all depends on what you think a positive IS. We had to have someone help design the study to get the most out of a limited budget.

BTW you have to get to very high doses before ethanol has significant action on other classes of receptor - or at least the study suggested that. But more studies are needed. We did not venture beyond 30mg due to the steep dose/response curve. I mean, one of us DID take more... and immediately fell asleep so we figured it wouldn't be a useful study if we went there.

But why do you think it would put the brewing industry out of work? I feel like people would are always going to drink beer. Even if this compound had very good effects I doubt it would be able to mimic the taste of beer and many people would stick to drinking. Also, like you said it wouldn't be able to mimic 100% of the effects of alcohol since people like different things about it. For example I used to know this girl who said the most fun thing about alcohol was how difficult it made it for her to walk.

 

[4DQSAR]

But why do you think it would put the brewing industry out of work? I feel like people would are always going to drink beer. Even if this compound had very good effects I doubt it would be able to mimic the taste of beer and many people would stick to drinking. Also, like you said it wouldn't be able to mimic 100% of the effects of alcohol since people like different things about it. For example I used to know this girl who said the most fun thing about alcohol was how difficult it made it for her to walk.

I'm sure nothing would totally replace ethanol - but I suggest that since the product is essentially tasteless, it offers the possibility of almost ANY flavour or format being equally simple and cheap to produce.

So if it only converts half of the people who drink alcohol, it's still a LOT of jobs.

 

[burn out]

True but industries have had to deal with changes like this before and also, are you sure people wouldn't perhaps not drink that much less but use this more? For instance someone who drinks on average 5 beers a week but still drink 4 or 5 beers a week but also start using this on the nights they don't drink. What are the long term effects? It seems like a loss of brewing jobs would be worth the loss in negative health impacts of real alcohol.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

Alcohol has been rated the most harmful substance around many times. Damn neurotoxin.

Benzos, RELATIVELY BENIGN (real tough to OD, doesn't harm the body much unless you go real crazy) --- unless you are forced C/T which only happens because of the illegal status. I know nurses use to joke behind patients back when they'd ask about overdosing --- "Idk however many it would take to choke to death -- but we always say 5mg ish"

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Alcohol is definitely more euphoric, but benzos, when used sensibly, can be kept under the radar, simply because they don't make you stink like a trump's underpants.

However, when not used sensibly, you're fucked...

 

[Esperighanto]

However, when not used sensibly, you're fucked...

I've often found the term "substances that demand respect" to be really effective at communicating this to people. Among my IRL social circle, I'm kind of the go-to chemist and drug nerd, and part of that means that I have tried to find the most effective ways to communicate the dangers of things like 25X-NBXX compounds, [benzo/thieino]-[triazolo]-diazepines (alprazolam, etizolam, diazepam, etc.), GHB, things that can fuck your life up quickly or kill quickly. It's interesting how the specific use of language in specific contexts can carry much more weight than others, and in my personal experiences and opinion, slightly anthropomorphizing drugs akin to the regional deities found in some animistic religions can be very helpful. If people view GHB, or 25I-NBOMe, or etizolam as something that can benefit them if respected, but punish them if disrespected, they tend to stay in line better, at least so far.