Opioids Caffeine *inhibits* the effects of Morphine??

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

so basically this:

Caffeine is a noncompetitive adenosine receptor antagonist. This effect can inhibit the actions of morphine. In contrast to the enhancement of antinociception with low doses, there also studies reporting that caffeine inhibits the antinociceptive action of morphine at higher doses.

Why did I always think that caffeine increased the effects or opioids? Or at least made them work a little faster and was neutral on their effect?

 

[daturetard]

Why did I always think that caffeine increased the effects or opioids? Or at least made them work a little faster and was neutral on their effect?

It probably has more to do with the layering of multiple psychoactive effects, making you further off of baseline, (or "higher") as they're talking about only analgesia, not really a high.

 

[Skorpio]

Caffeine is also a phosphodiesterase inhibitor, which will potentiate cyclic AMP (cAMP) signaling by slowing the breakdown of cAMP. This could make the opioid-induced dopamine release in the VTA pull more weight than it would normally.

Caffiene will definitely decrease the sedation of an opioid to some degree, which could also increase the perception of euphoria.

Stimulants in general tend to be analgesic (usually due to norepinephrine signaling), so it would be interesting if caffeine bucks that trend (and to what degree).

 

[daturetard]

Stimulants in general tend to be analgesic (usually due to norepinephrine signaling), so it would be interesting if caffeine bucks that trend (and to what degree).

Well I know of incarvillateine that has supposed opioidergic pathways, but I've tried it and it doesn't seem like the u agonist it's purported to be (to me, and this is a year or two ago, so all i really remember is not feeling like it was an opioid, it could well have that activity), and it also has adenosinergic pathways by which it exerts analgesic effects which is much more in line with my experience.

 

[Skorpio]

Well I know of incarvillateine that has supposed opioidergic pathways, but I've tried it and it doesn't seem like the u agonist it's purported to be (to me, and this is a year or two ago, so all i really remember is not feeling like it was an opioid, it could well have that activity), and it also has adenosinergic pathways by which it exerts analgesic effects which is much more in line with my experience.

Interesting. The opioid activity of that compound seems to be possibly kappa or delta agonism, and secondary to its adenosine agonism. The evidence for opioid effects is also spottier, with selective delta and kappa antagonists reversing effects in one study but not naloxone in a different study. Adenosine antagonists have reversed the analgesia in multiple studies by multiple different groups.

 

[JackARoe]

Caffiene will definitely decrease the sedation of an opioid to some degree, which could also increase the perception of euphoria.

That explains why it feels better when you add caffeine to morphine. I used to add guayusa tea to poppy tea for the caffeine and what seemed like potentiation. But for me, no way does it take away from it.

 

[Them Witches]

Coffee helps methadone decently. I also use black coffee(only) and let methadone tablets dissolve in mouth & hits harder everytime which I learned from a pancreatic cancer friend.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

That explains why it feels better when you add caffeine to morphine. I used to add guayusa tea to poppy tea for the caffeine and what seemed like potentiation. But for me, no way does it take away from it.

Agreed. I personally find caffeine heightens my morphine high.
Morphine + Gabapentin +Caffeine + Cyclizine is my jammm right now xD

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Coffee helps methadone decently. I also use black coffee(only) and let methadone tablets dissolve in mouth & hits harder everytime which I learned from a pancreatic cancer friend.

I do similar, but with Morphine, not Methadone. With the Morphine IR (which comes as tablets) I chew them extremely thoroughly and kinda let it sit in my mouth for a bit and with my Morphine ER (which comes as capsules) I open the capsules up, crush the beads into a fine powder, and then let that sit in my mouth for a bit, too. I've head opioids cannot be absorbed buccally or sublingually, but, IDK, I like this method.

 

[Them Witches]

I do similar, but with Morphine, not Methadone. With the Morphine IR (which comes as tablets) I chew them extremely thoroughly and kinda let it sit in my mouth for a bit and with my Morphine ER (which comes as capsules) I open the capsules up, crush the beads into a fine powder, and then let that sit in my mouth for a bit, too. I've head opioids cannot be absorbed buccally or sublingually, but, IDK, I like this method.

I glad you in detail said this. I recently tried to say here if I let my Mallinckrodt roxi 30mg dissolve under my tongue and keep it there as long as possible it changed every dynamic about it and started to work again after 14 1/2 years at the moment I figured this "cheat code out".. And it was there the whole time bored, ready to file for divorce, and go cheat on me with the neighbor.

I know in all of my fiber that this subject, especially with the Mallinckrodt "crush under the thumb" construction is the right tablet for a hybrid PO/Sublingual route is the best of both worlds. Here is what I gathered by studying this route (history: the past 38 years every day Rx opiates & opioids)...quickly I want to keep your ear on :

IMO
--- Roxi has 86% blah, blah... With this hybrid route, I felt it was close to 2-3 times stronger depending on the dosage size.
--- I dose every 4hrs, at 65mins & my is brain checking the time. with the new route @ the correct dosage, I did not have the voice that cannot tell time for how many great ideas he has, @ 185-225 mins I was reminded. I am back to the normal 4hrs therapeutic dose for the past 4 months now. And the physical dependence spacing got longer. this means blood plasma levels are up like they titrated me.

I would say we are on to something, people should acknowledge it, and follow the lead.

 

[jasperkent]

Caffiene will definitely decrease the sedation of an opioid to some degree, which could also increase the perception of euphoria.

I'm sure this is true AND that individuals metabolize drugs & perceive effects in different ways.

I've always found opioids to be stimulating-- some more so than others. I was never one to "nod;" rather, I considered opioids work drugs.

I also love coffee and consumed a lot of it when I was hooked on pain pills. My favorite way to take hydros&oxys was to chew 'em up and wash 'em down with black coffee.

I definitely got a LOT of euphoria out of that!

 

[daturetard]

Interesting. The opioid activity of that compound seems to be possibly kappa or delta agonism, and secondary to its adenosine agonism. The evidence for opioid effects is also spottier, with selective delta and kappa antagonists reversing effects in one study but not naloxone in a different study. Adenosine antagonists have reversed the analgesia in multiple studies by multiple different groups.

So with this being essentially the opposite pathway of caffeines effects, with incarvellaine being analgesic, could that explain, in convoluted & complex terms, why caffeine is said to have algesic effects?