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☮ Social ☮ PD Social Tripping Thread: aLL aBoArD tHe MoThErShiP 👽🛸

Fun game! You got some hefty equations there in the code =D :D

I suppose the drugs not wearing off instantly after deleting them is by design? Wish I could go up the ramp and enjoy from up top. Was it the final update? I could use some controls improvements... ;) just kidding, I hope all is well Kaleida
 
Fun game! You got some hefty equations there in the code =D :D

I suppose the drugs not wearing off instantly after deleting them is by design? Wish I could go up the ramp and enjoy from up top. Was it the final update? I could use some controls improvements... ;) just kidding, I hope all is well Kaleida
Hey long time no see, how’ve you been man?
 
Fun game! You got some hefty equations there in the code =D :D

I'm glad you like it! ☺️ Those equations were a long time in the making, I've been tweaking that system for close to a decade now.

I suppose the drugs not wearing off instantly after deleting them is by design?

I actually didn't even think of that, the deleting was added into the code almost at the last step, and I had just gotten so used to hitting the End key to wipe out any ongoing trips by then. Do you think it would be feel more logical if deleting the drug made their trip go away? I feel like there's logic to letting the lingering trip hang around too but if the control felt smoother that way I'd consider adding that feature in.

Wish I could go up the ramp and enjoy from up top.

The source code is available for download too if want to look at it. 🙂 I'm more than happy to discuss it here as well.

Was it the final update? I could use some controls improvements... ;) just kidding,

It's definitely an open-ended project, and you're more than welcome to give feedback!

In terms of how the visuals work, there's probably not going to be any more updates to what's already there. Like I said I've been working on the visual engine for many years, and I'm pretty satisfied now with where it's ended up, and don't want to lose the many visuals I already have that I really like. Plus, if I changed them now then the serial codes people generate now wouldn't work the same way in future updates, and I don't want to do that. Because of the way the serial codes work, there is a little more room for me to add a few more types of visuals without changing the system so all the codes generated previously will still work, so I may do something like that one day if I end up creating any more visual styles that satisfy me enough. For example, in my experimentation I found a really cool method for generating Lilliputian hallucinations (Alice in Wonderland syndrome), but I wasn't really able to implement them in a way that felt as smooth and cool as the others do for me yet. If I can figure that one out, I might stick that in there eventually. Here's an example of what it looks like with what I've figured out so far:

rdRIMyi.png

I also have ideas for things that could implemented such as systems that would make finding specific types of visuals that you like better easier, or game-like fictionalization elements that make toying around with it more fun - or both simultaneously, such as, for instance, making up fictional psychoactive plants for all the preset drugs instead of naming them after real drugs, then letting people breed their own strains and hybrids that create similar drugs with slightly randomized tweaks. Stuff like that. But I'm still at the drawing board with all that kind of stuff right now.

As for control/quality-of-life updates, yeah, that's definitely on the table, and I certainly would still put out updates for things like bug fixes or whatever too. I've already got a few ideas in mind, like allowing for scrolling up from the top to the bottom of the menu or vice-versa, allowing scrolling by holding down the WASD keys instead of having to press for every one scroll, and implementing mouse control. I'll probably take a little bit of break before doing anything that isn't crucial to having the drugs and menus work properly, but I certainly would like to make it more inviting and easy to use over time.

Let me know if you have any specific feedback!

I hope all is well Kaleida

I'm doing pretty well right now all things considered, thanks. ❤️ I hope you're doing alright as well. 🙂
 
Site note: my current obsession is JV2ASZ-3Z5VZLDP. This one definitely would have been on the preloaded drugs list if I had discovered it before uploading the update. I actually think it gives me some vibes that are more LSD-like than the one I called LSD in the release, and I really like it. If I add more drugs in future updates it will definitely be on the list then.

I was able to get it to create this really cool double helix design at the peak by standing in the right spot. It even looks like it's 3D and spinning around in place and everything.

w4V2gNh.png
 
You guys told me snorting 2c-b would be terrible, but it's honestly not that bad. I took a bit off the tip of the spatula (so around 5-6 mg) and am definitely feeling some effects already 15 minutes in.
Gonna be playing Oblivion Remastered and doing extra bumps as needed for extra immersion.
 
I have understood that some qualities hurt more. It is apparently the alkaline nature of it that is problem and if it is hcl or freebase or whatever, I don't remember, defines it also?
 
I ingested a handshake dose of 8.5 mg 2C-T-2 oxalate... And it somehow feels like visuals are right around the corner? What is this going to do at a proper dose, say 15 mg of the hydrochloride?! I think I'll do a slow titration 😅
 
Funny coincidence. I had roughly 9-10 mg 2C-T-2 (HCl I think) today. I had some nice color enhancement but otherwise felt similar "on the threshold" of visuals. The mood lift and body high were excellent though. It was just what I needed. I'm going to aim for 15 mg myself next time.
 
I did not expect it to interfere as much with my obligations for today. I rather took it impulsively, "let's see if this salt really hides some magic". Well it does, why wouldn't it. It is surprisingly active and forced me to address some current frustrations of mine. And already at this dosage I feel a ton of muscle tension. I hope I can make friends with it regardless. I guess this is again one of those lessons of not even nibbling when the time is not ripe. And here I thought I had learned that already. So far, no "sulfur warmth/glow" in sight. Rather reminds me of 2C-E for now, but different. Stern teacher vibes, but perhaps not stone-cold neutral and instead it feels like I could get to the right side?

Definitely massively overinterpreting here with the little input I have 🤣

Funny coincidence indeed @iom and I'm glad you had a fine time. Seems like you're getting comfortable again with the psychedelics :)
 
It did come around to show a warmer side by now. I think we can be good friends after all! Phew!
 
I did not expect it to interfere as much with my obligations for today. I rather took it impulsively, "let's see if this salt really hides some magic". Well it does, why wouldn't it. It is surprisingly active and forced me to address some current frustrations of mine. And already at this dosage I feel a ton of muscle tension. I hope I can make friends with it regardless. I guess this is again one of those lessons of not even nibbling when the time is not ripe. And here I thought I had learned that already. So far, no "sulfur warmth/glow" in sight. Rather reminds me of 2C-E for now, but different. Stern teacher vibes, but perhaps not stone-cold neutral and instead it feels like I could get to the right side?

Probably. ;) The funny thing is that my trip did not interfere with my obligations. Granted they all involved domestic work. I helped dry and put away dishes while coming up. I pulled some weeds. I watered the grass. I also separated and wound a bag full of colorful ribbons for my wife. I essentially did all the things I would have normally done, but with a bit more bounce in my step. I remarked on our walk that it was like being on vacation without actually going anywhere or changing anything. I also had little if any body load other than some slight GI oddity in the first hour. The muscle tension was mild---mostly a feeling of activation and increased strength and control.

I will say that I have experienced significant body load from 2C-T-2 in the past. My first time, I felt a lot of tension and had a lot of tremor too. That time I had some transient nausea, and the third hour involved a lot of dark introspection. My second time had less noticeable body load but still a lot of dark introspection (partly influenced by set---events that happened right before my dose). My third time, I was hiking and experienced a rather strong urge to purge one way or another, which was definitely disconcerting. The first two times, the negativity cleared by the end of the 3rd hour, and then the experience became incredibly rich and euphoric. The third time, the overall experience felt flatter, but I was at a very stressed out time of my life in my senior year of undergrad in a free-fall economy and contemplating grad school. I was having a lot of GI problems even without the drugs, yet that experience still seemed to leave me a lot better off.

I'm increasingly coming around to the view that much body load on psychedelics is just the body working through its backlog of maintenance. Healing is a process involving transient discomfort which ultimately leads to the euphoric state of having been healed. I believe psychedelics activate innate healing processes all across the body through their activity on serotonin receptors. This activity signals to the cells that it's time to work through that backlog. The result is transient discomfort followed by the euphoric state of having been healed. Note that the receptor activation only initiates these healing processes, which can require minutes, hours, or even days to complete.

Based on this theory, one way to avoid body load is to give your body more opportunities to process maintenance debt naturally. This includes good nutrition, regular moderate exercise, stress management, good rest, and sufficient sunlight. Taking psychedelics more frequently may also help in so far as they may accelerate such processing, but you will have to endure the discomfort of having this processing forced upon you, much as you would if you became injured or caught an infection. Note that I have every reason to believe that the emergence of dark moods and negative thought forms in trips can be understood as part of this processing. Serotonin receptor activators may be involved in initiating processing of both physical and emotional damage.

To be clear, these are pretty gross generalization. Little is actually known about the actual functioning of the serotonin subsystem. For example, serotonin receptors responds to multiple natural as well as synthetic ligands, and drugs like LSD are known to have effects via serotonin receptors that serotonin itself is not capable of. A detailed understanding of these different pathways is seriously lacking.
 
While I'm skeptical of these claims of bodily healing through psychedelics - of course your experience with tackling Post-COVID syndrome are likely much different - I'm very in favour of believing it. Gives the overall experience a great narrative. Very glad after all that I took the 2C-T-2 yesterday. I'm certain it will not disappoint in higher dosages. The trip was impressive given the little amount that I used, had a nice plot too. As you described, initiated a healing process and after wading through the mud, salvation awaited. I like a good psychedelic with some catharsis and the duration is right up my alley too.

I'm not sure if you read Myron Stolaroff's "From Thanatos to Eros", but here is a relevant excerpt for you on the topic of bodily discomfort with 2C-B:
As we got familiar with it we experienced the body discomfort people complained about, but found we could work through that to the enjoyable aspects. On the suggestion of others that 2C-B makes you quite aware of your body, I formed the hypothesis that the uncomfortable feelings are the result of the storage in the muscles of toxins resulting from inappropriate dynamics (or “negative karma” as described in Chapter 3, Note 8). If this were true, the use of psychedelics would be an excellent way to clear this up. Consequently if the subject were willing to confront the uncomfortable feelings and stay with them, they would be resolved and it would be possible to enter an enjoyable state with 2C-B.

Against your theory of physiological healing there is the fact that some psychedelics are virtually free of bodyload (this is largely true of 2C-B, 2C-C and 2C-D for me). But perhaps they are not as effective on the body - good medicine has to be bitter!
 
While I'm skeptical of these claims of bodily healing through psychedelics - of course your experience with tackling Post-COVID syndrome are likely much different - I'm very in favour of believing it. Gives the overall experience a great narrative.

I am quite certain that serotonin pathways initiate tissue remodeling and/or regeneration, which is kind of a low level form of healing. This is well established science, albeit not widely known because much of the relevant work is relatively new. Most people understand serotonin to be a neurotransmitter. In reality serotonin is a hormone which is produced and/or utilized by practically everything under the sun. Indeed, it may have originated because of the sun and the energy capturing properties of indole rings, particularly in the amino acid tryptophan. Tryptophan captures blue light energy which can be used to catalyze interesting chemistry but also leads to collateral damage from free radicals. At one time, these process may have formed some serotonin (among other things) spontaneously. Some time later, organisms may have evolved to treat this serotonin as a signal for the need to control damage and initiate repair processes. Later still, organisms may have evolved ways of purposefully synthesizing and storing serotonin, which allowed the damage-control-and-repair machinery to be activated under different circumstances---such as in response to other kinds of damage. Indeed, the release of large amounts of serotonin in the region of a wound is observed in some plants and animals. In humans, most serotonin in the body is found in platelets where it can be rapidly released in the blood vessels at the site of a wound.

So essentially yes, serotonin induces healing at a kind of low level, but whether this action therapeutically beneficial is very likely circumstantial. Chronic excess of serotonin in the blood stream causes significant health problems including the valvulopathy that 5-HT2B agonists are known for. Having said that, serotonin is but one ligand that is active at serotonin receptors, which are named "serotonin receptors" because serotonin is the first known ligand for them. We know LSD and other psychedelics exert a type of action at 5-HT2A that many other 5-HT2A agonists and antagonists do not exert. In other words, the 5-HT2A receptor is multi-functional, and so while psychedelics do mimic serotonin to an extent, some mimic it poorly while strongly activating the receptor in a qualitatively different way. Thus far, almost all study of LSD has been in the brain and not anywhere in the rest of the body, yet I strongly suspect that the body produces ligands with LSD-like action even if not necessarily in the brain. (I'm skeptical that DMT/5-MeO-DMT are relevant.) I have a hunch that if we studied the action of psychedelics in our cells we might discover some potentially powerful medicines and get better insight into what they are doing in our brains.

Very glad after all that I took the 2C-T-2 yesterday. I'm certain it will not disappoint in higher dosages. The trip was impressive given the little amount that I used, had a nice plot too. As you described, initiated a healing process and after wading through the mud, salvation awaited. I like a good psychedelic with some catharsis and the duration is right up my alley too.

I'm glad you feel it left you in a better place. A few people find the body load to be too much to make it worth it, but a lot of us do it despite a rough come-up because the rest of the trip is so nice.

I'm not sure if you read Myron Stolaroff's "From Thanatos to Eros", but here is a relevant excerpt for you on the topic of bodily discomfort with 2C-B:

Why yes, I have read his book. The negative karma concept is very interesting. I believe it is borrowed from somatic psychology theory, which is also very interesting though not widely practiced or accepted in the mainstream these days. I increasingly lean toward the view that much which is considered of the domain of mental health or psychology is actually misunderstood physiological phenomena. Essentially if the patient is complaining and the doctor runs a bunch of diagnostic tests but doesn't see anything wrong, then it is presumed to be a mental health problem, and the patient is referred accordingly. The trouble is, the doctor may have not run the right test to properly diagnose the disease, or perhaps the right test doesn't even exist.

Meanwhile, I'm really coming to the view (in light of the actual science described above) that psychedelics are widely misunderstood to be primarily or exclusively active within the brain. The brain activity is absolutely important, but trips really are a full body thing. So if I may make a suggestion. Perhaps this concept of negative karma can be better understood as a kind of maintenance debt. It's not so much about "toxins in the muscles" as simply damage for which repairs may have been deferred for one reason for another. We can all understand why the body might opt not to repair some tissue in so far as it requires resources that may not be available and may temporarily reduce the performance of the tissue while it is being repaired. Serotonin and/or psychedelics may signal to those tissues that it's time to fulfill the debt, to carry out deferred healing and repairs. Something psychedelics may do uniquely is alter the process by which such healing and repairs are carried out in a way that may effectively short-circuit the usual serotonin-activated process and which might, in some cases (like say chronic inflammation), be more therapeutically beneficial. Perhaps "negative karma" is accounted for by up-regulating and down-regulating serotonin receptors.

Against your theory of physiological healing there is the fact that some psychedelics are virtually free of bodyload (this is largely true of 2C-B, 2C-C and 2C-D for me). But perhaps they are not as effective on the body - good medicine has to be bitter!

It's not against my theory at all in so far as I admit that 5-HT receptors are multi-functional. At the very least we know that some 5-HT2A agonists are LSD-like and cause tripping and others do not cause tripping. This is one possible way to explain why psychedelics differ so much with regard to "body load". My understanding is that LSD actually has very little serotonin-like effect at all. Some researchers describe it as an antagonist even, but in terms of psychedelic action, it is very much an agonist.

Could it be that serotonin-like action causes body load and LSD-like action does not? Data I have seen does suggest that drugs like 2C-B, 2C-C, and 2C-D have lower serotonin-like "efficacy" compared with drugs like 2C-E, 2C-T-2, and mescaline. Unfortunately, almost all these things also have action at other 5-HT2 receptors and also at 5-HT1A. Activating the 5-HT1A receptor can sometimes have opposite effects to activating 5-HT2A. Activating 5-HT2B In the brain (and maybe other places like nerves?) enhances overall serotonin transmission, meaning more serotonin is competing with the psychedelic in the 5-HT2A receptor but also more serotonin is activating 5-HT1A too. If 5-HT2B enhances serotonin transmission in nerves in general, then this could have interesting consequences. The brain can cause nerves in particular areas of the body to secrete serotonin, not merely for transmission but to potentially alter their metabolism. In this way, both entactogens and psychedelics with 5-HT2B activity may greatly enhance the ability of the subject to consciously direct healing to specific parts of the body.

I admit that much of what I'm saying is speculative, but it cannot be taken for granted that serotonin pathways are expressed all over the body, and psychedelics undoubtedly have interesting and profound effects in more places than just the brain. If we knew better what these things actually did, it really could revolutionize medicine.
 
Nice !
Personally, I don't try to sleep. I smoke a few more bowls of weed and enjoy the scenery 🥱
It only gets in the way if I "have" to get sleep to be somewhere the next day. At this point in my life that doesn't happen much anymore. Permanent vacation ...
 
I don't dose as high on blotter anymore so sleep happens.
Lately I've been menacing tho when I'm up after midnight from catching some sleep that night already.
Some of my best work comes in those morning hours stewing in thought. @Cheshire_Kat
 
@iom What you wrote is very interesting and a cool perspective. Perhaps my disagreement was just due to being unaware of all of these functions of serotonin. Of course I know there is much more to serotonin than just the mind and of course the the same holds true for psychedelics. But it just seemed too convenient and snake-oily for it to be the whole truth. Granted, it probably isn't the whole truth and I doubt that's what you think too, but it is some nice speculation which may very well hide a grain of truth. In regards to mescaline - which I have only tried very rarely - the only kind of bodyload seemed to be nausea to me. DOM, 2C-T-2 and 2C-E (and to some extent 2C-D, but comparatively very little) induced body tension for me (from the compounds I tried and from top of my mind). I do wonder how such postulated repair mechanisms would result in muscle tension, but I clearly have no idea about all of this yet. Cool stuff indeed and thanks a lot for your detailed reply. I will include this kind of view in my future reading of scientific papers.
 
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