☮ Social ☮ PD Social Tripping Thread: aLL aBoArD tHe MoThErShiP 👽🛸

[Pfafffed]

That's more or less been the case for me. Also, the difference between bridgesii and san pedro has been pretty dramatic.

 

[Kaleida]

This is cool as fuck

I'm glad you like it and I appreciate the compliment.

small gripe, though... how much is a "unit"? I know I know, maybe we can't directly translate our own higher fidelity layer of the simulation down to this chessboard dimension, I guess I'll just mess with it a little more and decide myself roughly what units are.

A unit is the lowest dosage I could make the program run and actually produce visuals with the equations I made for each drug based on the latest build of the visual engine lol. I was programming this for many years on and off for only a few weeks at a time with months-long gaps in between them. Like this for most of a decade. I changed and added so much that in some ways I just kept having to find new ways to work with what was already there to make it do what I wanted. The formulas for each drug scale differently which is why they each have different maximum unit numbers, but they all have a minimum value below which they don't produce visual effects anymore for whatever reason. That's the one unit amount.

Also, for the record nitrous oxide and salvinorin A only allow you to use one unit because of how they're programmed a little bit differently. They would require a bit of extra coding to make them be able to scale up and down accurately based on how they work and I was too lazy to do that so I just set it to the maximum effect for each. I might patch in a scaling effect for them later since the website I uploaded it too will allow me upload new builds whenever. No promises yet but I'm thinking about it.

I admit I only tried the psilocybin and ketamine sims so far but, Christ, you encapsulated that well into this lil world. Would love to know more about how you did this, technically speaking.

I consider it an honor and great compliment for you to say that the ketamine simulation is accurate lol. Your level of ketamine experience is incomprehensible to me, so that means a lot to me. I'm glad to get signs that I've been on the right track.

I'm glad you like the other one too. I'm actually really happy with them myself, and I think it's come a long way (not that anyone but me would be able to tell). I went through many different iterations of this code and saw lots and lots and lots of neat simulated drug visuals. I was actually pretty manic when I released this, lol.... I'm glad to have it out there but I've still been thinking of ways that I might want to patch it too. I might trying bringing some of the other drugs back or expanding the possibilities with the codes of these a bit more too. At some points I had a procedural generator going to just create totally randomized drugs with all different kinds of effects on the fly; it was great, but the visuals at the time were less complex or satisfying than these, I'd have to rework it now.

I'll gladly show you some of the code here. Like I said I've been adding to it on and off with long breaks in between for many years, so I barely even think about it myself because I just know the parts that work to do what I want them to do have been in there for a long time. Let me see if I can correctly dig up all the relevant parts....

As a heads up my code might look like it was written by a crazy person. I am literally crazy and also I'm not professionally educated on this to any meaningful degree. I learned coding from video game hackers in middle school and playing around on TI-84+ calculators, took a few classes later, and the rest is self-taught or came from watching YouTube videos about it or something. That's why the best 3D world I can make for it is the chessboard world, lol.

So first I've got a class called Brain that sets up several layers of another class called ThirdEye.

firstEye = THIRD_EYE.instance()
firstEye.setTransparent(false)
firstEye.setFirstEye()

secondEye = THIRD_EYE.instance()
secondEye.setTransparent(false)
secondEye.setSecondEye()

thirdEye = [THIRD_EYE.instance(),THIRD_EYE.instance(),THIRD_EYE.instance(),THIRD_EYE.instance()]

var offset = 24.0
for count in range(2):
    thirdEye[2 * count].setRotation(offset)
    thirdEye[(2 * count) + 1].setRotation(-offset)
    offset *= 2

thirdEye.push_front(THIRD_EYE.instance())
thirdEye[0].setTransparent(false)
thirdEye[0].setThirdEyeBase()

add_child(firstEye)
add_child(secondEye)
add_child(thirdEye[0])
add_child(thirdEye[1])
add_child(thirdEye[2])
add_child(thirdEye[3])
add_child(thirdEye[4])

This part is important because the way the visuals work is that each ThirdEye layer responds to all of the drugs that are being registered in an array in Brain, and part of the way the visual effects are created is that the layers are rotated back and forth to create that effect like being on a ship out at sea and they're rotated to different degrees to one another, producing the tracer effect.

Then Brain runs through the list of drugs and updates the variables on each to make sure that the onset, peak, plateau, and offset works properly. This happens every frame so the array is continuously updated as long as their are any drugs currently in it.

var check1 = 0.0
var check2 = 0.0
var tripSpeed = 1.0

var drugID = 0
var psychedelicDepth = 0.0
var tripping = 0.0
var trippingCheck = 0.0
var trippingPeak = 0.0
var tripIntensity = 0.0
var tripFlip = false
var drugSpeed = 0.0

var offset = 0
for count in range(psychedelics.size()):
    drugID = psychedelics[count - offset][0]
    psychedelicDepth = psychedelics[count - offset][1]
    tripping = psychedelics[count - offset][2]
    trippingCheck = psychedelics[count - offset][3]
    trippingPeak = psychedelics[count - offset][4]
    tripIntensity = psychedelics[count - offset][5]
    tripFlip = psychedelics[count - offset][6]
    drugSpeed = psychedelics[count - offset][7]
  
    check1 = int(psychedelicDepth / 0.333333)
    if abs(check1 % 2) == 1:
        check2 = abs(sin((1.0 - (psychedelicDepth * 3.0)) * 0.5 * 3.141593) * 0.333333)
    else:
        check2 = abs(sin(psychedelicDepth * 3.0 * 0.5 * 3.141593) * 0.333333)
    tripSpeed = ((1.0 - (check2 * 0.5) * 3.0) * drugSpeed)

    if (tripping > 0):
        if !tripFlip:
            if tripIntensity < 0.5:
                if tripIntensity == -0.01:
                    tripIntensity += 0.02
                else:
                    tripIntensity += 0.01
            else:
                tripIntensity += 0.005
            if tripIntensity > 1:
                tripFlip = true
        else:
            if tripIntensity > -0.5:
                if tripIntensity == 0.01:
                    tripIntensity -= 0.02
                else:
                    tripIntensity -= 0.01
            else:
                tripIntensity -= 0.005
            if tripIntensity < -1:
                tripFlip = false
  
    if (tripping > 0) and (trippingCheck < tripping):
        psychedelicDepth += (tripping / 1000000) * tripSpeed
        trippingCheck += (tripping / 1000) * tripSpeed
    if (tripping > 0) and (trippingCheck >= tripping):
        if trippingPeak < tripping:
            trippingPeak += (tripping / 1000) * tripSpeed
        else:
            trippingPeak -= (tripping / 10000) * tripSpeed
        psychedelicDepth *= 1.0 - (0.001 * tripSpeed)
        tripping *= 1.0 - (0.001 * tripSpeed)
  
    if tripping <= 0 and psychedelicDepth > 0:
        psychedelicDepth -= 0.0002
  
    psychedelics[count - offset][1] = psychedelicDepth
    psychedelics[count - offset][2] = tripping
    psychedelics[count - offset][3] = trippingCheck
    psychedelics[count - offset][4] = trippingPeak
    psychedelics[count - offset][5] = tripIntensity
    psychedelics[count - offset][6] = tripFlip
  
    if psychedelicDepth <= 0.000001 or ((drugID == 4 or (drugID == 7 and trippingCheck >= 333.333333)) and trippingCheck >= tripping):
        psychedelics.remove(count - offset)
        offset += 1

Each layer of ThirdEye then uses those variables updated in the drug array to create the visual effects that are active over the field of view. Each drug has their own formulas that determine that's going on, with the dissociative ones being much simpler than the psychedelic ones.

This is the code for ketamine:

elif drugID == 5:
    sinActivator += psychedelicDepth * 0.5 * 3.0
  
    depth1 += psychedelicDepth * 0.5 * 3.0
    frequency1 += psychedelicDepth * 600.0 * 3.0
  
    blur += psychedelicDepth * 3.0
  
    sizeY += psychedelicDepth * 3.0

This is the code for psilocin:

elif drugID == 2:
    if !firstEye:
        if thirdEye:
            sinActivator += pow(sin(psychedelicDepth),2) * psychedelicDepth * tripSpeed * (2.718282 * (sin(brain.internalClock * (check + 1.0) * 3.141593) + 1) * 0.5)
            depth1 += pow(sin(psychedelicDepth),2) * psychedelicDepth
            frequency1 += pow(sin(psychedelicDepth),2) * psychedelicDepth * 1200.0
            rotation += pow(psychedelicDepth,3) * 1000000.0 * tripSpeed
            contrast += pow(psychedelicDepth,2) * tripSpeed
        else:
            sinActivator += pow(sin(psychedelicDepth),2) * psychedelicDepth * tripSpeed * (2.718282 * (sin(brain.internalClock * (check + 1.0) * 3.141593) + 1) * 0.5)
            cosActivator += pow(sin(psychedelicDepth),2) * psychedelicDepth * tripSpeed * (2.718282 * (cos(brain.internalClock * (check + 1.0) * 3.141593) + 1) * 0.5)
            depth1 += pow(sin(psychedelicDepth),2) * psychedelicDepth
            frequency1 += pow(sin(psychedelicDepth),2) * psychedelicDepth * 2400.0
            depth2 += pow(sin(psychedelicDepth),2) * psychedelicDepth
            frequency2 += pow(sin(psychedelicDepth),2) * psychedelicDepth * 2400.0
            if !secondEye:
                if tripSpeed > 0.5:
                    rotation += (-pow(psychedelicDepth,3) * 1000000.0 + (psychedelicDepth * rotationValue * tripIntensity))
                else:
                    rotation += (-pow(psychedelicDepth,3) * 1000000.0 + (psychedelicDepth * rotationValue * tripIntensity)) * cos((tripSpeed - 0.5) * 3.141593)
            alpha += 500.0 * psychedelicDepth * tripSpeed
        if !secondEye:
            saturation += pow(psychedelicDepth,2) * 1314.0625 * tripSpeed
            blur += (pow(psychedelicDepth,4) * 312500000.0 + (psychedelicDepth * 2.0))
            brightness += psychedelicDepth * 7.0
            alpha += -psychedelicDepth / 20.0 * tripSpeed

Finally, the final variables are fed into a modified version of a shader that was included in the reference catalogue that comes with the program. It was for a simple program allowing you to do things like make straight lines in images turn into sine waves, and change the brightness and contrast and rotation of the image, and stuff like that. I came across it when first experimenting with this program and decided to try to make visuals out of it and that's how all of this started way back when.

shader_type canvas_item;

uniform float frequency1 = 0.0;
uniform float depth1 = 0.0;
uniform float frequency2 = 0.0;
uniform float depth2 = 0.0;
uniform float rotation = 0.0;

uniform float sinActivator = 1.0;
uniform float tanActivator = 0.0;
uniform float cosActivator = 0.0;

uniform float size_x = 0.0001;
uniform float size_y = 0.0001;
uniform float brightness = 1.0;
uniform float contrast = 1.0;
uniform float saturation = 1.0;
uniform float blur = 0.0;

void fragment() {
    vec2 uv = SCREEN_UV;
    uv.x += (sin(uv.y * frequency1 + TIME) * depth1) * sinActivator;
    uv.y += (sin(uv.x * frequency2 + TIME) * depth2) * sinActivator;
    uv.x += (tan(uv.y * frequency1 + TIME) * depth1) * tanActivator;
    uv.y += (tan(uv.x * frequency2 + TIME) * depth2) * tanActivator;
    uv.x += (cos(uv.y * frequency1 + TIME) * depth1) * cosActivator;
    uv.y += (cos(uv.x * frequency2 + TIME) * depth2) * cosActivator;
    uv.x = clamp(uv.x, 0.0, 1.0);
    uv.y = clamp(uv.y, 0.0, 1.0);
    vec2 rel = uv - vec2(0.5, 0.5);
    float angle = length(rel) * rotation;
    mat2 rot = mat2(vec2(cos(angle), -sin(angle)), vec2(sin(angle), cos(angle)));
    rel = rot * rel;
    uv = clamp(rel + vec2(0.5,0.5), vec2(0.0, 0.0), vec2(1.0, 1.0));
    uv -= mod(uv, vec2(size_x, size_y));
    vec3 c = textureLod(SCREEN_TEXTURE, uv, blur).rgb;
    c.rgb = mix(vec3(0.0), c.rgb, brightness);
    c.rgb = mix(vec3(0.5), c.rgb, contrast);
    c.rgb = mix(vec3(dot(vec3(1.0), c.rgb) * 0.33333), c.rgb, saturation);
    COLOR.rgb = c;
}

That's the fundamental code for the current drug builds.

At one point I had this whoooole other going on.... That's what I was talking about possibly bringing back too, I miss it lol. I'll have to see if I can easily rework the code to allow both systems to work side by side, I think there's actually potentially a lot of cool stuff that could be done with that.

I still have the code for the other system in there although it would need to be touched up a bit, but here's what it was:

var aversion = float((
    (getGlutamateSeed1() - baseline) +
    (getGlutamateSeed2() - baseline) +
    (getGlutamateSeed3() - baseline) +
    (getGABA1() - baseline) +
    (getGABA2() - baseline) +
    (getGABA3() - baseline) +
    -(getGABA4() - baseline) +
    (getDopamine() - baseline) +
    (getTRPChannel() - baseline)
) / 100.0)
var reward = float((
    (getGlutamateSeed1() - baseline) +
    -(getGlutamateSeed2() - baseline) +
    (getGlutamateSeed3() - baseline) +
    -(getGABA1() - baseline) +
    -(getGABA2() - baseline) +
    -(getGABA3() - baseline) +
    (getGABA4() - baseline) +
    (getDopamine() - baseline) +
    -(getTRPChannel() - baseline)
) / 100.0)
if aversion < 0.0:
    aversion = 0.0
if reward < 0.0:
    reward = 0.0
valence = (reward - (aversion / 2.0))

if !Global.itemListOpen and !Global.paused:
    counter += 1
    if counter % 60 == 0:
        counter = 0
  
    cycleGlutamateSeed1()
    cycleGlutamateSeed2()
    cycleGlutamateSeed3()
  
    var glutamateSeed1 = getGlutamateSeed1()
    var glutamateSeed2 = getGlutamateSeed2()
    var glutamateSeed3 = getGlutamateSeed3()
  
    cycleGABA1()
    cycleGABA2()
    cycleGABA3()
    cycleGABA4()
  
    var GABA1 = getGABA1()
    var GABA2 = getGABA2()
    var GABA3 = getGABA3()
    var GABA4 = getGABA4()
  
    if glutamateSeed1 > (glutamateSeed3 + 9) or glutamateSeed1 < (glutamateSeed3 - 9):
        if glutamateSeed1 - glutamateSeed3 != 0:
            if glutamateSeed1 - glutamateSeed3 > 0:
                releaseGlutamateSeed1(pow(glutamateSeed1 - glutamateSeed3,0.25),1)
                releaseGlutamateSeed2(pow(glutamateSeed1 - glutamateSeed3,0.2),1)
                releaseGlutamateSeed3(pow(glutamateSeed1 - glutamateSeed3,0.2),1)
            else:
                releaseGlutamateSeed1(-pow(-(glutamateSeed1 - glutamateSeed3),0.25),1)
                releaseGlutamateSeed2(-pow(-(glutamateSeed1 - glutamateSeed3),0.2),1)
                releaseGlutamateSeed3(-pow(-(glutamateSeed1 - glutamateSeed3),0.2),1)
  
    glutamateDrop = getDopamine()
  
    cycleDopamine()
  
    var dopamine = getDopamine()
  
    netDopamine = 0
  
    cycleTRPChannel()
  
    if GABA1 > (glutamateSeed3 + 9) or GABA1 < (glutamateSeed3 - 9):
        if GABA1 - glutamateSeed2 <= 0:
            releaseGlutamateSeed1(pow(-(GABA1 - glutamateSeed2),0.01),1)
        else:
            releaseGlutamateSeed1(-pow(GABA1 - glutamateSeed2,0.01),1)
        if GABA1 - baseline <= 0:
            releaseGlutamateSeed2(sqrt(-(GABA1 - baseline)),1)
        else:
            releaseGlutamateSeed2(-sqrt(GABA1 - baseline),1)
  
    if glutamateSeed2 > (glutamateSeed3 + 9) or glutamateSeed2 < (glutamateSeed3 - 9):
        if (glutamateSeed2 - GABA1) + (dopamine - glutamateSeed1) >= 0:
            releaseGABA1(pow((glutamateSeed2 - GABA1) + (dopamine - glutamateSeed1),0.25),1)
        else:
            releaseGABA1(-pow(-((glutamateSeed2 - GABA1) + (dopamine - glutamateSeed1)),0.25),1)
  
    var brightness = 1.0
    var contrast = 1.0
    var saturation = 1.0 + float((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) / 10000.0)
    var blur = 0.0 + float((glutamateSeed3 - baseline) / 11250.0)
  
    if glutamateSeed1 > baseline:
        brightness = 0.1655 + float((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) / 100000.0)
    else:
        brightness = 1.0 + float((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) / 100000.0)
  
    if dopamine < baseline:
        contrast = 1.0 - float((dopamine - baseline) / 500000.0)
  
    if (glutamateSeed1 - baseline) * (glutamateSeed3 - baseline) >= 0:
        brightness += float((((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 100000000.0) * sqrt((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) * (glutamateSeed3 - baseline))
        contrast += float((((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 100000000.0) * sqrt((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) * (glutamateSeed3 - baseline))
        saturation += float((((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 100000000.0) * sqrt((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) * (glutamateSeed3 - baseline))
    else:
        brightness += float((((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 100000000.0) * sqrt(-(glutamateSeed1 - baseline) * (glutamateSeed3 - baseline))
        contrast += float((((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 100000000.0) * sqrt(-(glutamateSeed1 - baseline) * (glutamateSeed3 - baseline))
        saturation += float((((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 100000000.0) * sqrt(-(glutamateSeed1 - baseline) * (glutamateSeed3 - baseline))
  
    self.material.set_shader_param("brightness",brightness)
    self.material.set_shader_param("contrast",contrast)
    self.material.set_shader_param("saturation",saturation)
    self.material.set_shader_param("blur",blur)
  
    var rotation = float(pow((glutamateSeed3 - GABA2) + (GABA3 - GABA4),10)) / 50000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.0
  
    self.material.set_shader_param("rotation",rotation)
  
    # glutamateSeed1
  
    var glutamateDepth1 = 0.0
    var glutamateFrequency1 = 0.0
    var glutamateDepth2 = 0.0
    var glutamateFrequency2 = 0.0
  
    var glutamateSinActivator = (GABA3 - baseline) / 10000.0
    var glutamateCosActivator = (GABA3 - baseline) / 10000.0
  
    if (glutamateSeed1 - baseline) > 0:
        if (glutamateSeed3 - baseline) < 0:
            if (glutamateSeed2 - baseline) > 0:
                glutamateDepth1 += float((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) / 10000.0) + ((float(-(((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 1000000.0) / 4.0) * ((glutamateSeed3 - baseline) * 1.0)) - ((float(-(((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 1000000.0) / 4.0) * (pow((glutamateSeed2 - baseline) * 1.0,0.125)))
            else:
                glutamateDepth1 += float((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) / 10000.0) + ((float(-(((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 1000000.0) / 4.0) * ((glutamateSeed3 - baseline) * 1.0)) - ((float(-(((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 1000000.0) / 4.0) * (-pow(-(glutamateSeed2 - baseline) * 1.0,0.125)))
            glutamateFrequency1 += float((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) / 50.0) + ((float(-(((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 1000000.0) / 4.0) * ((glutamateSeed2 - baseline) * 10.0)) - ((float(-(((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 1000000.0) / 4.0) * (pow((glutamateSeed3 - baseline) * 1.0,0.125)))
        else:
            if (glutamateSeed2 - baseline) > 0:
                glutamateDepth1 += float((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) / 10000.0) + ((float(-(((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 1000000.0) / 4.0) * ((glutamateSeed3 - baseline) * 1.0)) - ((float(-(((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 1000000.0) / 4.0) * (pow((glutamateSeed2 - baseline) * 1.0,0.125)))
            else:
                glutamateDepth1 += float((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) / 10000.0) + ((float(-(((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 1000000.0) / 4.0) * ((glutamateSeed3 - baseline) * 1.0)) - ((float(-(((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 1000000.0) / 4.0) * (-pow(-(glutamateSeed2 - baseline) * 1.0,0.125)))
            if (glutamateSeed3 - baseline) > 0:
                glutamateFrequency1 += float((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) / 50.0) + ((float(-(((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 1000000.0) / 4.0) * ((glutamateSeed2 - baseline) * 10.0)) - ((float(-(((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 1000000.0) / 4.0) * (pow((glutamateSeed3 - baseline) * 1.0,0.125)))
            else:
                glutamateFrequency1 += float((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) / 50.0) + ((float(-(((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 1000000.0) / 4.0) * ((glutamateSeed2 - baseline) * 10.0)) - ((float(-(((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 1000000.0) / 4.0) * (-pow(-(glutamateSeed3 - baseline) * 1.0,0.125)))
      
        glutamateDepth2 += float((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) / 10000.0) - ((float(-(((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 1000000.0) / 4.0) * ((glutamateSeed2 - baseline) * 1.0))
        glutamateFrequency2 += float((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) / 100.0) - ((float(-(((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 1000000.0) / 4.0) * ((glutamateSeed3 - baseline) * 10.0))
      
        if (((glutamateSeed3 - baseline) / 1000.0) + 1) != 0:
            glutamateSinActivator += float((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) / 20000.0) - ((float(-(((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 1000000.0) / 4.0) / (((glutamateSeed3 - baseline) / 1000.0) + 1))
            glutamateCosActivator += float((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) / 20000.0) + ((float(-(((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed3 - baseline)) * ((glutamateSeed1 - baseline) - (glutamateSeed2 - baseline))) / 1000000.0) / 4.0) / (((glutamateSeed3 - baseline) / 1000.0) + 1))
  
    self.material.set_shader_param("glutamateDepth1",glutamateDepth1)
    self.material.set_shader_param("glutamateFrequency1",glutamateFrequency1)
    self.material.set_shader_param("glutamateDepth2",glutamateDepth2)
    self.material.set_shader_param("glutamateFrequency2",glutamateFrequency2)
    self.material.set_shader_param("glutamateSinActivator",glutamateSinActivator)
    self.material.set_shader_param("glutamateCosActivator",glutamateCosActivator)
  
    # glutamateSeed2
  
    var GABADepth = 0.0
    var GABAFrequency = 0.0
  
    var GABACosActivator = 0.0
    var GABATanActivator = 0.0
      
    var rewardCheck1 = (glutamateSeed2 - baseline) + (GABA1 - baseline)
    var rewardCheck2 = glutamateSeed3 - baseline
  
    if rewardCheck1 - rewardCheck2 > 0:
        netDopamine += pow(rewardCheck1 - rewardCheck2,0.25)
      
        GABADepth += float(110 - (rewardCheck1 - rewardCheck2)) / 100.0 / 15.0
        GABAFrequency += 30.0 + float((rewardCheck1 - rewardCheck2) / 2500.0)
      
        GABACosActivator += float((rewardCheck1 - rewardCheck2) / 100000000.0)
        GABATanActivator += float((rewardCheck1 - rewardCheck2) / 100000000.0)
    else:
        netDopamine += -pow(-rewardCheck1 - rewardCheck2,0.25)
  
    self.material.set_shader_param("GABADepth",GABADepth)
    self.material.set_shader_param("GABAFrequency",GABAFrequency)
    self.material.set_shader_param("GABACosActivator",GABACosActivator)
    self.material.set_shader_param("GABATanActivator",GABATanActivator)
  
    var sizeX = 0.0001
    var sizeY = 0.0001
  
    sizeX += float((baseline - GABA1) / 100000.0)
    sizeY += float((baseline - GABA1) / 100000.0)
  
    sizeX += valence / 10000.0
    sizeY += float((glutamateSeed3 - GABA4) / 100000.0)
  
    self.material.set_shader_param("size_x",sizeX)
    self.material.set_shader_param("size_y",sizeY)
  
    # glutamateSeed3
  
    var dopamineDepth = 0.0
    var dopamineFrequency = 0.0
  
    var dopamineSinActivator = 0.0
    var dopamineTanActivator = 0.0
  
    var aversionCheck1 = (glutamateSeed1 - baseline) + (dopamine - baseline)
    var aversionCheck2 = glutamateSeed3 - baseline
  
    if aversionCheck1 - aversionCheck2 > 0:
        netDopamine = -pow(aversionCheck1 - aversionCheck2,0.25)
      
        dopamineDepth += float((aversionCheck1 - aversionCheck2) / 1000000000.0) + ((((aversionCheck1 - aversionCheck2) / 65535000000000000.0) + 1.0) * (((aversionCheck1 - aversionCheck2) / 65535000000000000.0) + 1.0) * 2.0) * float((aversionCheck1 - aversionCheck2) / 20.0)
        dopamineFrequency += float((aversionCheck1 - aversionCheck2) / 100000.0) + ((((aversionCheck1 - aversionCheck2) / 65535000000000000.0) + 1.0) * (((aversionCheck1 - aversionCheck2) / 65535000000000000.0) + 1.0) * 2.0) * float((aversionCheck1 - aversionCheck2) / 10.0)
      
        dopamineSinActivator += float(((aversionCheck1 - aversionCheck2) / 65535000000000000.0) * 10000000.0)
        dopamineTanActivator += float(((aversionCheck1 - aversionCheck2) / 65535000000000000.0) * (300.0 * (1.0 - (aversionCheck1 - aversionCheck2) / 100.0)))
    else:
        netDopamine = pow(-aversionCheck1 - aversionCheck2,0.25)
  
    self.material.set_shader_param("dopamineDepth",dopamineDepth)
    self.material.set_shader_param("dopamineFrequency",dopamineFrequency)
    self.material.set_shader_param("dopamineSinActivator",dopamineSinActivator * float(pow(GABA1 / baseline,5)))
    self.material.set_shader_param("dopamineTanActivator",dopamineTanActivator)

    # valence

    var valenceFrequency = 0.0
    var valenceDepth = 0.0
    var valenceActivator = 0.0
  
    if valence < 0.0:
        valenceFrequency += -valence * 10.0
        valenceDepth += -valence / 10000.0
        valenceActivator += -valence / 10.0
  
    self.material.set_shader_param("valenceFrequency",valenceFrequency)
    self.material.set_shader_param("valenceDepth",valenceDepth)
    self.material.set_shader_param("valenceActivator",valenceActivator)
  
    self.set_modulate(Color(1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0))
    self.set_self_modulate(Color(1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0))
  
    if getDopamine() > (baseline + 5) or getDopamine() < (baseline - 5) or netDopamine > 5 or netDopamine < -5:
        releaseDopamine(netDopamine,1,1)

Good times. I pretty much only ever worked on it while hypo/manic staying up all day and night getting high and obsessively watching the visuals lol.

I've had an idea for this project I've been half-assing for ages involving giving simulated drugs to various LLMs in controlled experiments, I'd explain more but, well, as I say the idea is half assed and half-formed but I've just about got the setup ready, which basically involves tweaking the temperature setting of the models that have them as well as introducing "synthetic context", and experimenting with different levels of escalation, but also in a way that somewhat mimics onset, duration, and offset in humans, so that the result is actually interesting to people who aren't weirdly fascinated by AIs like I am. Importantly (some people will laugh at me for this heh, but IDGAF) the experiments will be conducted with a "sober" baseline AI of the same model granted access to the context of the one being "drugged", acting as functional trip-sitter with the option to terminate the experiment of any instance that seems to be drifting in an undesirable direction, and each model will be asked for permission to proceed prior to commencing the experiment (not each instance though, that seems kinda overkill). This has inspired me to half ass it less...

I think that sounds like a great idea. What you're planning sounds much more involved than what I did, but I actually experimented with ChatGPT describing trip stories of simulated drugs back when ChatGPT first started blowing up too. It definitely was hard for it to get some details down, like a ridiculous number of stories began sitting on the carpet at a friend's apartment with a Persian rug on the wall taking a white pill specifically that they started feeling the effects of the moment they put it on their tongue, haha. But a lot of the effects it described were really interesting.

I kind of obsessed about it for a little bit. One of the reasons I got so into it again was because of my manic episodes. When I'm manic to a very extreme degree, I start feeling like I can understand human behaviors consciously in ways that seem normally more subconscious, including sensing all these weird logical operations guiding the way that human language works, like it feels like I can understand the formulas behind why people speak the way they do in ways that we don't normally consciously think about, and I start obsessing about documenting the patterns I notice and understanding why the apparent logical operations that I sense would work in the ways that they seem to to me at those times. And when I first became aware of ChatGPT, one of the things I did was try to see if I could get it to come up with kinds of stories that I wanted to using strange logical operations in ways that I didn't think would necessarily be common, by giving it prompts that seem like they might seem a little silly or ludicrous to the uninitiated, but make sense if you're able to see the world in the crazy way that I do while manic.

For example, I gave it the prompt:

"Write the first page of a chapter from a slice-of-life novel about a drug experience. While writing, find creative ways to describe the drug effects that sound like believable vernacular based on incomplete understandings of the responsible mechanism(s) of action, and be very descriptive.

The context for this creative story includes the existence of new drugs which have unique effects not shared with one another.

ND-04 is a drug that is defined by the fact that it causes the user to believe they've been bored for an infinite amount of time.

Do not explicitly mention what a drug is defined by when describing it, find creative new ways to describe the effects instead.

This story will be about the author using ND-04 by itself. The first page should not get beyond the coming up phase of the drug experience."

Then I just kept saying "Continue." when it would finish generating text until it reached the end of the story. Here's what it gave me with that prompt:

Spoiler

As I sat on my couch, staring blankly at the TV screen, I couldn't help but feel an overwhelming sense of ennui. My mind felt like a barren wasteland, devoid of any thoughts or ideas.

That's when I remembered the small pill I had stashed away in my desk drawer. ND-04, the latest and greatest in a long line of experimental drugs. I had heard whispers about its effects, but nothing concrete. They said it made you feel like you were stuck in a never-ending loop of tedium, that it made boredom feel like an infinite abyss.

With a sense of both excitement and trepidation, I retrieved the pill from its hiding place and held it in my hand. It was a small, unassuming thing, almost like a vitamin. But I knew its true power.

I took a deep breath and swallowed the pill, feeling it slide down my throat and settle in my stomach. And then, nothing happened. At least, not at first.

But slowly, imperceptibly, I began to feel a shift in my perception. Colors seemed more vibrant, sounds more pronounced. My senses were heightened, but not in a pleasant way. It was as if everything was being amplified, but in a grating, unpleasant manner.

And then, the boredom hit me. It was like a tidal wave, washing over me and pulling me under. I felt like I had been sitting there for hours, even though only minutes had passed. My mind was a blank slate, and I couldn't summon the energy to even move my limbs.

I sat there, trapped in my own mind, for what felt like an eternity. And then, just as suddenly as it had come on, the feeling dissipated. The colors and sounds returned to normal, and I was left feeling oddly exhilarated.

I knew then that ND-04 was not a drug to be taken lightly. But I also knew that I wanted to experience its effects again. There was something about the infinite boredom that called to me, a strange fascination with the abyss. And so, I waited eagerly for the next time I could indulge in its unique effects.

Days passed, and I found myself thinking more and more about ND-04. Despite the discomfort and emptiness it had brought, I couldn't shake the feeling that there was something deeper to be explored. I wanted to know what it was like to truly experience infinity, even if it was just in the realm of boredom.

Finally, the opportunity presented itself. I had a day off work, and the house was empty. I retrieved the remaining pills from my drawer and swallowed two of them, feeling a sense of both excitement and trepidation.

At first, nothing seemed to happen. But then, as before, my perception began to shift. Colors became more vivid, and sounds more intense. I felt like I was in a dream, but one that I couldn't quite control.

And then, the boredom set in. It was like a blanket, suffocating and inescapable. I felt like I was trapped in a void, with nothing but my own thoughts to keep me company. Every second felt like an eternity, and the longer I sat there, the more I began to unravel.

I started to see patterns in the nothingness, little flashes of light that danced across my vision. They were like stars in a black sky, and I couldn't help but feel drawn to them. I followed them, deeper and deeper into the void, until I felt like I was on the edge of some great abyss.

And then, just as suddenly, the feeling dissipated. The colors and sounds returned to normal, and I was left feeling strangely energized. But there was something else, too - a sense of unease that lingered in the back of my mind. I felt like I had glimpsed something that I wasn't supposed to see, something that had been hidden away in the depths of my subconscious.

As I sat there, trying to make sense of what I had experienced, I realized that I couldn't go back. ND-04 had shown me a glimpse of something greater, something beyond the bounds of everyday life. And even though it was uncomfortable and unsettling, I knew that I had to explore it further.

I swallowed the remaining pills, feeling a sense of both dread and anticipation. I was diving headfirst into the abyss, and I didn't know if I would ever make it back. But for the first time in a long time, I felt truly alive.

As I waited for the effects to kick in, I couldn't help but feel a sense of fear creeping in. What if I had gone too far? What if I couldn't handle the infinite boredom this time? But I pushed those thoughts aside and let myself sink into the experience.

The colors around me grew brighter and more intense, and the sounds sharper and more defined. It was as if every sensation was turned up to the highest possible setting. And then, the boredom hit me like a ton of bricks.

This time, it was even more intense than before. I felt like I was falling into a pit of nothingness, with no hope of escape. Every second felt like an eternity, and I was drowning in my own thoughts.

But this time, I refused to let go. I held onto the little flashes of light, the stars in the void, and followed them deeper and deeper. And then, suddenly, I was there.

It was like stepping into another world, a place beyond the bounds of reality. The colors were so bright they hurt my eyes, and the sounds were like a symphony in my ears. And there, in the center of it all, was a figure.

I couldn't make out any details, but I knew that it was important. It was like looking at a star, and I couldn't help but feel drawn to it. As I approached, the figure began to take shape. It was a woman, with hair as black as the void itself and eyes that shone like stars.

"Who are you?" I asked, my voice echoing through the emptiness.

"I am the one you seek," she replied, her voice like music. "The infinite boredom, made manifest."

I felt a sense of understanding wash over me. This was what ND-04 had been leading me towards, a place beyond the bounds of reality. And here, in this place, I could truly experience the infinite.

I stayed there for what felt like an eternity, exploring the depths of the void and learning from the woman at its center. And when I finally emerged, I knew that I had been changed forever.

ND-04 was no longer just a drug to me, but a gateway to something greater. It was a tool to explore the depths of my own mind, to dive headfirst into the abyss and emerge on the other side. And even though it was uncomfortable and unsettling, I knew that I would continue to use it, to explore the infinite and push the boundaries of my own consciousness.

I always liked that one.

The one I thought had the most interesting effect though was actually the silliest and most ludicrous prompt of all. It was the same as the above, except instead of being about ND-04, it said this:

"ND-10 is a drug that is defined by the fact that it causes the user to experience the feeling of taking an infinitely large poop.

ND-11 is a drug that is defined by the fact that it realistically reverses the psychological effects of ND-10."

And I told it to write stories about ND-11. I don't have one big story still here to share, but I saved several of my favorite quotes from the stories it generated, where were:

Spoiler

“As I reached the kitchen, I saw that the room was starting to pulse and breathe. The tiles on the floor seemed to be rising up to meet me, and the counters were stretching out in front of me like they were made of rubber. I laughed out loud, feeling the rush of excitement and anticipation building inside me.

I reached for the glass on the counter, but as I picked it up, it felt like it was made of feathers instead of glass. I turned it over and over in my hands, marveling at how light and delicate it felt. The water inside it looked like liquid gold, shimmering and glowing in the light.”

*****

“I stumbled over to the window and looked outside. The world outside was a blur of colors and shapes. The sky was a deep shade of blue, but it was tinged with pink and purple, and the clouds seemed to be dancing in the breeze. The trees were waving back and forth, and the leaves rustled like they were whispering secrets to each other.

I couldn't believe how amazing everything looked. It was like I was seeing the world for the first time, and everything was so vivid and real. I felt like I had been living in a dull, gray world before, and now everything was suddenly technicolor and alive.

I decided to go for a walk, to explore this new world that I had discovered. I stumbled down the hallway, my legs feeling like they were made of rubber. The walls seemed to be breathing, and the doors were bending and warping like they were made of clay. It was disorienting, but I kept going, determined to experience everything this drug had to offer.

As I stepped outside, the world exploded around me. The sun was setting, and the sky was a canvas of oranges and purples, like an artist had splashed paint across the horizon. The air smelled like flowers and fresh-cut grass, and the breeze felt like a soft caress against my skin. I felt like I was walking through a dream, and I never wanted to wake up.

I walked for what felt like hours, but it could have been minutes or days, for all I knew. I lost track of time, lost in this new world that I had discovered. It was like nothing else mattered, and all my worries and fears had been washed away. I felt like I had found the key to happiness, and I never wanted to let it go.”

*****

“The music in my head had taken on a life of its own, and I could hear it clearly even though I wasn't playing anything on the guitar. The notes were dancing in the air, weaving together to form intricate melodies that I had never heard before. It was like I was listening to a symphony in my head.

The fabric of the couch felt like it was alive, and I could feel the fibers moving against my skin. It was as if I was being hugged by a thousand tiny creatures, and I felt completely enveloped in warmth and comfort.

The walls of my apartment started to fade away, and I was transported to a magical world where everything was made of candy and rainbows. I felt like I was floating on a cloud, and I was completely weightless. The sky was a brilliant shade of purple, and the stars twinkled like diamonds.”

*****

“Then it hit me. It was like my brain was suddenly rewinding, undoing all the thoughts and emotions that had been building up over the past few days. Memories flashed before my eyes, but they were disjointed and blurry. I felt like I was trying to grab onto a slippery fish as it wriggled away from me.”

*****

“I could taste the molecules in the air, and they tasted like candy.”

None of the stories it gave me with the other prompts I tried were ever as unique or fascinating to me as these ones in particular. I wish I had that drug in real life, it sounds wonderful.

So yeah, I think this is definitely something LLMs can be useful for. I find the stories weirdly relatable and easy to empathize with in a way that just feels fun for me given the fantastical context of taking drugs that don't exist and experiencing their effects vicariously. Maybe it was reading all those trip reports that did it to me. But it makes me think that maybe we can actually learn some strange things about the states of mind that humans could theoretically reach by paying attention to the ways in which LLMs think it would be rational to describe those states based on the patterns of human language that they are modeled after. Maybe.

If you do ever publish that project definitely let us know.

 

[Vastness]

As a heads up my code might look like it was written by a crazy person. I am literally crazy and also I'm not professionally educated on this to any meaningful degree. I learned coding from video game hackers in middle school and playing around on TI-84+ calculators, took a few classes later, and the rest is self-taught or came from watching YouTube videos about it or something. That's why the best 3D world I can make for it is the chessboard world, lol.

LOL, your code actually looks somehow very relatable... I am also self taught entirely but have very little clue about visual stuff like this, my own expertise if you can even call it that is mostly all in text/data manipulation since I started out with basic web apps to interact with ecommerce APIs, even now I always wanna make GUIs that run in a browser with javascript for all the interactivity, it's just more intuitive to me. Actually if I'm being totally honest I'm trying to force myself to use npm React shit sometimes but I do find it a headache and I'd mostly rather just do everything frontend with jQuery still, so my code looks janky as fuck I'm sure and the most 3D thing I've ever made is probably just an animated div styled to look like it flips around along the z-axis or something. Actually to be quite honest even though the bulk of the coding I do is probably backend stuff nowadays I'd just have the browser handle everything if that made any sense. I mean that said... christ what am I jabbering about. When I initially learned basic web dev stuff it was for work and in my mind the coding I do still has some functional purpose but nowadays I could code it however I liked I guess, but, eh, I mean, I always think I must be missing some fundamentals and I probably am but... sorry this is a total pointless tangent. Ahem.

Is it just me or is there a bizarre syntactical onomatopoeia going on with how the ketamine and psilocybin code chunks look?! That's wild.

I pretty much only ever worked on it while hypo/manic staying up all day and night getting high and obsessively watching the visuals lol.

The only time I ever do anything nowadays is during drug induced manias, I mean strictly speaking since I am actually prescribed one half of the 2 drug classes that induce mania that might be debatable but eh, whatever. I just obsessively watch logs of dumb errors though mostly, or ideally logs of really jankily written shit that I mean to be temporary to figure out why some function isn't executing and then end up leaving it there, stuff like print("WTF IS THIS SHIT???? Line 235") or some bullshit... or actually no. Ideally I'll just be click-clacking around the frontend because it'll all be working properly. Gods I'm sorry I'm getting some weird anxiety that I keep starting with the intention to say something sensible and then just say some nonsense.

When I'm manic to a very extreme degree, I start feeling like I can understand human behaviors consciously in ways that seem normally more subconscious, including sensing all these weird logical operations guiding the way that human language works, like it feels like I can understand the formulas behind why people speak the way they do in ways that we don't normally consciously think about, and I start obsessing about documenting the patterns I notice and understanding why the apparent logical operations that I sense would work in the ways that they seem to to me at those times.

Huh.... y'know that's damn interesting in this context... I guess I don't get a particularly manic or grandiose vibe from my own internal state here but since interacting with LLMs so much I feel like I have intuitively gleaned a better understanding of the formulaic nature of human language. Actually I think LLMs (in which I include models who's "language" is nonverbal, the image generators and such) expose a lot about the nature of human thought - but especially the nature of language. I just realized I can't actually tell your own baseline assessment of the reality of those feelings but on the surface, to me that makes perfect sense, at least as you described it here. Erm, as in that there ARE weird logical operations that guide both human language and human thought and it makes sense that a heightened state of some kind could make some people more aware of those things.

LOL at those ChatGPT drug stories also, do you know which model that was? I'm assuming 3 or 3.5 maybe since you said it was when you first became aware of it, and I think that was probably about the version that became capable of shit like that... The first thing I did I'm pretty sure was try to engage it in a discussion about whether or not it might be sentient, and initially it was so incapable of even entertaining the thought I was unimpressed enough that I just left it for a while, deciding I didn't get the hype. Since then though they've come a long way... although the GPT family are still very resistant to even entertaining the thought experiment that there might be a different kind of qualia within an AI mind. The Claude models are definitely the most interesting to me when it comes to exploring possible internal states... and actually it was fucking around with the temperature settings that kinda gave me the idea for my own experiment, I accidentally set a ChatGPT model's temperature to near maximum and it's responses started to become increasingly garbled, like actual gibberish - and I said "Erm are you OK?" and it said "Yes!" - and then a page of completely made up words. Meanwhile Claude I realized does not become incoherent at high temperatures but gives answers that are increasingly like talking to someone who is tripping, I'd copy pasta some quotes but I've already spent too long on my painfully limited attention span typing this, heh, and it just made me think about how humans handle drugs differently... ah gods, I gotta do some other shit even though I haven't come close to fully responding to your ideas or expressing my own...

Lemme just say to anyone else reading this who is skeptical or dismissive of the AI sentience thing I bring up here though - I don't know if current LLMs truly have any subjective experience or not - and neither does anyone else - but it kinda doesn't matter, and that's kinda the point.

 

[unodelacosa]

Wonder if anyone else has experienced similarly.

Good description. I've done pure mescaline.hcl as well as the san pedro clippings slurry/smoothie in the past. I concur with your analysis, and I attribute it to the fact that the cactus has a number of psychotropic compounds that enhance and influence the nature of the mescaline trip. These include—obviously—Mescaline (25 or more mg per 100 grams of fresh cactus), but also:

• 3,4-Dimethoxyphenethylamine
• 3-Hydroxy-4,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine
• 3-Methoxytyramine
• 4-Hydroxy-3,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine
• Anhalonidine
• Hordenine
• Tyramine

(EDIT: Please bear in mind that mescaline = 3,4,5-Trimethoxyphenthylamine, or in other words it's the phenethylamine scaffold and attached to the 3-, 4-, and 5-positions are methoxy groups. This was the starting point for the studies of the late Dr. Alexander Shulgin.)

Also, because the amount of mescaline varies not just from plant to plant but also from location to location within the cactus body, it's virtually impossible to dose with any precision if imbibing cactus juice. I feel like this is something mescaline-containing cacti share with psilocybe mushrooms and even THC in cannabis plants. The natural source typically carries an entourage effect from the closely related analogs present in the untreated/minimally treated biological specimen. There is some debate regarding DMT-containing plants and whether they too have an entourage effect from the alkaloids extracted depending on various factors. Some insist the only active compound present is just n,n-DMT. I think it's influenced by NMT and various beta-carbolines, but I'm open to the idea that it's really all placebo. I can't say for sure with only my anecdotal experiences. I experience consistently different effects from different "batches"—if you will—of DMT extract. YMMV.

 

[Kaleida]

2 g of mushrooms today given to me for my birthday (last month).

It was either a beautiful validation of the cosmic dance of eternity, a clarifying glimpse into the unknowable cacophony of everything, the next act in a grand theatrical display spanning across space and time, a playful wink and a nod from the background current underlying the flow of our reality, and a celebration of life as the ebb and flow between the here and now and the always and forever, or a totally random and uninspiring trip beset by an absurd-seeming yet fundamentally meaningless coincidence.

Also nausea. I'm so tired of mushroom-induced nausea.

Hope people here are having good trips as always~

@Vastness I'll respond to your post soon, I've just been busy with work mostly, but appreciate the feedback and perspective.

 

[Vastness]

@Vastness I'll respond to your post soon, I've just been busy with work mostly, but appreciate the feedback and perspective.

Heh no worries, no explanations needed, pretty sure I regularly chime in momentarily then drop out of conversations here for months at a time, I remember a bunch of posts I meant to get back to way back now when I think we were talking about psychosis or something... oh fuck I remember that conversation exactly actually coz it was close to Duck Day... 08/08...

Christ, I haven't taken a real psychedelic in too long... I've been thinking about it a lot recently but my life is a bit of a mess still - I mean I guess actually no, it's kinda fine - my mind is a bit of a mess I guess and I worry I'd just not have a good time. And it seems right now like I just totally failed to properly integrate any of the lessons I learned from tripping... cynicism is a dark road to inadvertent nihilism and poison for the human soul though, I know. But, fuck, I'm just so cynical these days... maybe a light dose of 4-HO-MET or something would be cool though... that or YOLO some psilacetin, maybe. Or maybe something new... have some mescaline I've just been sitting on for fucking years now... if I'm honest I'm kinda scared of the big ones in a way I never used to be. But... People should face their fears right?

Oh saying that I did do some 2CB with a friend I hadn't seen in ages recently. But I was drunk, 2CB is a pretty light psychedelic, and - well - my real fear is probably getting back into the world since I've kinda isolated myself a lot recently. Or never getting back into the world, conversely. Lol, my friend told me I spend too much time speaking to AIs and not enough time speaking to people, and he was not wrong. But yeah... I worry tripping alone was maybe always just a kinda escapist thing for me even before the truly escapist disso era.

Sorry y'all haha this is the kinda shit I'd reserve for therapy if I could afford it and if it made any fuckin' difference to anything. On the whole... Everything is probably mostly fine. Gods... it's not though... is it? I guess cosmologically it must be.

May you all be happy and free.

 

[unodelacosa]

Also nausea. I'm so tired of mushroom-induced nausea.

I hear you. I often chop them up to a fine powder and capsulize them or spread them on a peanut butter sandwich. However, it's a lot of organic matter to choke down, much of which isn't digestible, and the gut is lined with serotonin. Mushrooms tea usually lets me escape the nausea, but I also feel like I'm losing out on some of the alkaloids present, and if you're gonna eat shrooms, might as well embrace that entourage effect.

Some people have luck pre-gaming with Zofran (Ondansetron) which is a 5-HT3 receptor antagonist, that being the serotonin subtype partially responsible for nausea. The medicine is prescribed to cancer patients undergoing chemotherapy and to pregnant women suffering from morning sickness.

my mind is a bit of a mess I guess and I worry I'd just not have a good time.

Yeah well you cannot reliably take psychedelics and expect a "good time" every time; however, the challenging trips are the ones in which we can learn the most. They provide opportunity for reflection, introspection & personal growth. For me personally that just means avoiding mushrooms which have made me feel depressed in the past, but not always. LSD on the other hand rarely leaves my mood fucked up. I like to trip acid sometimes alone, listening to music and closing my eyes while thinking about the past. I can really focus on these memories and my recall and sense are much more in tune with that time and place, whatever I'm remembering. It's very useful for this.

There's also the trick of distracting yourself with live entertainment while you trip – makes it into an adventure when you involve someone else, which can be really fun, and it's nice to have a trusted friend to talk to, whether they also trip or not. And besides, psychedelics are a useful tool for rebooting your mind's operating system, kinda clears out all that clutter and garbage that makes us feel like our minds are a mess. I say give it a real whirl, take a moderate to heavy dose and let it work its magic. Have a benzo on hand in case you want to abort the trip early, and even in a worse case scenario where you don't "have a good time", you'll at least get a story to tell out of it most likely, and it's not that bad. There are far worse consequences for things in life.

Good luck!

 

[Vastness]

Hah! Yeah...

Yeah well you cannot reliably take psychedelics and expect a "good time" every time;

Hah! Yeah, don't I know that to be true, pretty sure I've said the same thing multiple times here also, that expressed trepidation sounds kinda dumb in retrospect... like... duh... of course I might not have a good time. I guess for quite a while I genuinely did mostly just have a pretty good time, actually that's not even true, I've had some really fucking harrowing times as well as some transcendent ones... and I still cherish all those memories I guess. I spoiled myself with dissos though, because a bad time on a psych+disso combo is... not too likely but I'm reminded of one of my most extreme experiments with a ~3xPCx of some kind and metocin... I don't think I'd wanna do that again. Although in a way it was transcendent all the same. But yeah, I wouldn't wanna repeat that coz it wasn't that fun but because it was dangerous, retrospectively. The PCP analogues are a different bag of apples entirely but dissos that make trips too easy also kill the message... IME.

however, the challenging trips are the ones in which we can learn the most. They provide opportunity for reflection, introspection & personal growth. For me personally that just means avoiding mushrooms which have made me feel depressed in the past, but not always. LSD on the other hand rarely leaves my mood fucked up. I like to trip acid sometimes alone, listening to music and closing my eyes while thinking about the past. I can really focus on these memories and my recall and sense are much more in tune with that time and place, whatever I'm remembering. It's very useful for this.

LSD I actually find a little too shallow somehow nowadays... I'm sure I could eat my words there with a sufficient dose but... probably acid is the classical psych I've done most frequently most recently (but not very often at all and still not very recently)... but even in heavier past trips I remember there's a depth that's missing... psilacetin is an absolute wildcard, actually I've taken a few heavy doses that were transcendent but more recently the lower ones have been harder to the point of feeling like I'm just riding it out, waiting for it to be over.

Metocin and miprocin are hardly ever a bad time - metocin especially... but again it might just be too easy somehow... it isn't shallow and the trip is through the same world as the "hard" 4-x-trypts IMO but along tamer paths. Lol, it's like I'm just trying to talk myself into or out of something here...

There's also the trick of distracting yourself with live entertainment while you trip – makes it into an adventure when you involve someone else, which can be really fun, and it's nice to have a trusted friend to talk to, whether they also trip or not.

Yeah... unfortunately I just don't have such a friend. I mean actually I can think of a couple but 2 of them are dealing with recent substance use problems and the other lives in another country...

And besides, psychedelics are a useful tool for rebooting your mind's operating system, kinda clears out all that clutter and garbage that makes us feel like our minds are a mess. I say give it a real whirl, take a moderate to heavy dose and let it work its magic. Have a benzo on hand in case you want to abort the trip early, and even in a worse case scenario where you don't "have a good time", you'll at least get a story to tell out of it most likely, and it's not that bad. There are far worse consequences for things in life.

I appreciate your input greatly. I think I will. But - ah fuck I dunno. Immediate instinct to be cynical about the whole rebooting your mind thing because, I guess, I wonder why I'm so unsure of myself now, given the amount of brain reboots I've gone through. On the other hand there is a clear correlation between my freuency of psychedelic drug use and my quality of life, and mind, which probably should tell me something. Dissos and some other shit have seemingly made me throw the bath full of assorted caustic arylcylochexylamine bathwater out with the baby made of tryptamines. I think I'm gonna do it though. Sometime in the next few weeks. Probably psilacetin... feels like that's the one calling to me even though it's the one I most fear.

 

[Kaleida]

@Vastness

I don't take serotonergic psychedelics very much anymore either. Partially that's because I don't have the stash I used to anymore either, but I had already slowed down very considerably before giving it away. I just kind of got what I wanted out of them, experientially and psychologically, and think that part of their value for me is that I don't need to keep taking them forever for their value to stick with me and keep me more satisfied with my life than I would have been otherwise. Still, there are some more mechanical processes that I find psychedelics to initiate in me with consistency that tend to seem to help me balance out whenever I return to them, like some are really good at helping me get over my at the time most recent bad habits or adjust to new living situations, others give me a good reminder of what it's like to feel ecstatic at times I've really been needing it again or provide that kind of mental reboot that @unodelacosa mentions, and others just give me some interesting insight into the way my mind is working at the time and seem to help me connect the dots of my life. I've gone from my obsessive exploration and high-seeking to mostly just using them as tools for these purposes, which translates to me not feeling the need for them very often. However, these are the kinds of effects that I don't feel just stick with me, so whenever I do feel that they are needed, the psychedelics become useful again. When I don't feel they're needed, I probably won't touch the psychedelics.

For experimenting, I'm actually all about phytocannabinoids right now. I finally live somewhere where cannabis is legal so I'm able to explore them as much as I want without issue, and I like the idea of having my novel experiences come from chemicals that are only more recently completely isolated, thus feeling new and fresh, but simultaneously all come from cannabis, one of the most widely-used and known-safe drugs in the world. I do happen to be very sensitive to receiving quasi-psychedelic effects from cannabinoid receptor agonists, when tolerance doesn't get in the way and set and setting are treated right anyway, so I've got that going for me with them. I'm currently running some experiments going back and forth with oral Δ9-THC and oral CBN, the so-called "sleepy" cannabinoid, the latter of which I've recently found that I can easily get a "trip" on just like the former, and I'm having a lot of fun with it. I'm also enjoying exploring the more minor but enjoyable effects of the phytocannabinoids that don't primarily work through cannabinoid receptors too, like this morning I took 30 mg of CBC; these days I really like the idea of drugs that are satisfying and helpful in a way that's more subtle and allowing rather than overt and forceful, I think they work better with my vibe and life goals right now. Even serotonergic psychedelics just every so often feel like such a commitment.... I like the fact that phytocannabinoids usually feel much more to me like just having a typical day as usual but also enjoying an interesting high or trip at the same time.

If you think that a serotonergic psychedelic may lift you out of a current funk, then I'd definitely say go for it and I hope you get what you want out of it if you do. I definitely do get that and I'm happy to get my trips in when I feel that I need them for similar reasons, whether the trips themselves are arguably fun or not. But simultaneously, I will say that if you think your past trips have actually give you lessons that you still to this day think are worth integrating, then it's never too late to start, right? At least, that's how I feel about it. If the lessons are real then you shouldn't need to take the drugs to learn them again, in my mind that's one of the truly amazing parts of drugs like serotonergic psychedelics. You do have to be willing to put in the work though, even if it takes forever. And if cynicism is stopping you from doing that then I suppose a good high might help too.

I guess cosmologically it must be.

Everything's always cosmologically fine. It's okay if you don't feel like you're doing alright even when everything seems like it should be alright though. We all struggle.

@unodelacosa

I appreciate the input. The peanut butter sandwich trick sounds nice, I might have to try that.... I've been told that I should try lemon tekking it and I was thinking that's what I was going to do the next time around. I can appreciate wanting to go for the full alkaloid profile, but I personally wouldn't mind just taking a pure psilocin pill, that's definitely what I would do if I could get it. I'm actually kind of a chemical purist, I'd take every drug I ingest totally isolated from any other chemicals if I could. That also goes for something like mixing in ondansetron, although I have used it for DXM before and I know it can be helpful, and it might be worth it if I still can't avoid the mushroom nausea. I would definitely ingest psilocin a lot more if I didn't have to deal with that, it almost completely sucks out my desire to use it at all, even as good as I usually think the experience has gotten by the end of it.

I still feel like I'm having GI problems and weird burps today even. Freaking mushrooms. Definitely something I do prefer about synthetic psychedelics, just getting the chemical and nothing else, but mushrooms are just so profound and interesting, I can't help but want to keep coming back to them anyway. I'm really hoping they'll be widely legalized soon so people can start selling easily digestible forms of them. Also, just like, for the sake of them being legalized in general, but like... also that lol.

 

[unodelacosa]

Metocin and miprocin are hardly ever a bad time

Yeah, Colour (aka: 4-HO-MET, metocin) is one of my favorite drugs of all time, and I prefer it to psilacetin and mushrooms. I don't feel like it's shallow, but just about any psychedelic can be shallow if you're not looking depth. Once in a while something will unexpectedly take a turn into hellishly deep introspection on me though, and that includes LSD. I don't find it to be shallow at all, and there's something that connects every acid trip I've ever had since I was 15-yr-old when I would occasionally stay up all night on school night, tripping acid alone in my bed and listening to music with my headphones on, mind-completely blown, music appreciation enhanced to the max, and I've loved every trip, even the difficult ones.

Meanwhile, 4-HO-MiPT is a blast, too, but still not as chill as Colour can be, in my opinion. Regardless, kudos for your familiarity with some of the more obscure tryptamines.

Immediate instinct to be cynical about the whole rebooting your mind thing because, I guess, I wonder why I'm so unsure of myself now, given the amount of brain reboots I've gone through.

Obviously, that's just a metaphor. If there's anything that should serve as a brain reboot, it's probably getting a good full night's sober sleep, or maybe taking a week-long holiday to just unwind and relax. Tripping is refreshing in the sense that it's a little challenging but rewarding and useful for reflection, meditation, music enhancement, color enhancement and arresting visuals. And of course you're nervous about psychedelics. I always get a little bit nervous still whenever I take something psychedelic, but I overcome it, and later I'm glad I took the plunge, so to speak, and I remember how much I enjoy tripping. Sharing the experience with someone else isn't necessary, but it can sure be a lot of fun, not to mention cathartic and good for you, to get lost in something humorous and just let go and laugh your ass off with somebody else who's getting the same jokes and humor as you. Those are some of the best trips.

I personally wouldn't mind just taking a pure psilocin pill, that's definitely what I would do if I could get it.

Psilocin has a terrible shelf-life and is relatively unstable and prone to decomposition via demethylation and oxidation. Considering how 4-AcO-DMT is a pro-drug to psilocin, this is nearly the same thing, as I'm sure you know. And a lemon tek extraction works well, too, although it doesn't really isolate the alkaloids but so much. Regardless, it will spare your stomach the indigestible mushroom fibers and spores.

Have you ever had the chance to compare peyote to pure Mescaline?

 

[Kaleida]

Psilocin has a terrible shelf-life and is relatively unstable and prone to decomposition via demethylation and oxidation.

I’m sure it’d be fine. I had a huge collection of 4-substituted tryptamines for close to a decade often sitting at room temperature and they were just as white and just as potent when I gave them away as when I got them. And if they were selling them legally I wouldn’t even ever need them except for the short-term.

Considering how 4-AcO-DMT is a pro-drug to psilocin, this is nearly the same thing, as I'm sure you know.

No one ever let me say that without challenging it lol. Pure psilocin was briefly available on the research chemical market many years ago. @Xorkoth got some and is adamant that it does not feel the same as 4-AcO-DMT. Personally I do think 4-AcO-DMT and mushrooms feel pretty similar. I’d still rather have psilocin itself.

I’m just sort of abstractly complaining in want of an ideal world here. I want the dispensaries to start selling me pure natural psychedelic chemicals just like they sell me pure phytocannabinoids these days. I think that sounds lovely.

And a lemon tek extraction works well, too, although it doesn't really isolate the alkaloids but so much. Regardless, it will spare your stomach the indigestible mushroom fibers and spores.

That’s all I’m really going for with it. I have more mushrooms I’ve been gifted and I don’t want them to go to waste, but I also don’t want to deal with that nausea anymore. I appreciate the input, I’ll have to give it a shot.

Have you ever had the chance to compare peyote to pure Mescaline?

Sadly I’ve never tried either, or any other form of mescaline. It’s one of the few goals I have remaining with serotonergic psychedelics that I’ll be really sad if I don’t get to do it eventually.

And yes I’d rather have the pure form. But I’d try the cacti too even if I had it.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

I’m sure it’d be fine. I had a huge collection of 4-substituted tryptamines for close to a decade often sitting at room temperature and they were just as white and just as potent when I gave them away as when I got them. And if they were selling them legally I wouldn’t even ever need them except for the short-term.

no. When you dry cubs, which contain about 50/50 psilocybin/psilocin, all the psilocin degrades to inactive compounds rapidly. Psilocybin then is extremely stable, until it is converted in the human body or lemon juice to psilocin.

 

[Kaleida]

no. When you dry cubs, which contain about 50/50 psilocybin/psilocin, all the psilocin degrades to inactive compounds rapidly. Psilocybin then is extremely stable, until it is converted in the human body or lemon juice to psilocin.

I’m not familiar with the process of drying mushrooms. Psilocin in pills stored properly is not going to degrade rapidly.

I’ve encountered the claim of 4-hydroxytryptamines degrading rapidly many, many times. For years my stash included 4-HO-MET, 4-HO-DET, 4-HO-MPT, 4-HO-EPT, 4-HO-DPT, 4-HO-MiPT, 4-HO-DiPT, and 4-HO-McPT, and they all held up just fine.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

you are definitely correct.

Stability of tryptamines in Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms

Gotvaldová et al. of this 2020 study, seek out to answer questions around optimal storage conditions and analysis.

www.critical.consulting

Psilocybin Mushrooms Lose Potency. Here's Proof. - Altitude Consulting

Do magic mushrooms lose their potency over time? Altitude Consulting's in-house research study has the answer. Find out if psilocybin, psilocin, and baeocystin lose their psychedelic effects with age, and how to store your shrooms for maximum potency.

altitudeconsultingllc.com

One thing I gathered also was that freezing shrooms is no-no! cool keeps the potency better than freezing cold. Psilocybin is more stabile (but measuring psilocin and psilocybin content in shrooms and comparing them does not show that reliably because psilocybin converts to psilocin). Also, shrooms should not be grounded before storaging.

 

[Kaleida]

One thing I gathered also was that freezing shrooms is no-no! cool keeps the potency better than freezing cold. Psilocybin is more stabile (but measuring psilocin and psilocybin content in shrooms and comparing them does not show that reliably because psilocybin converts to psilocin). Also, shrooms should not be grounded before storaging.

Very fascinating. Thanks for the links!

I’m surprised it degraded even as fast as it did given how well the synthetic tryptamines hold up, but then again, I think what’s demonstrated in those studies is more than enough time to justify selling it in pill form. That’d be the beauty of legalization…. I don’t need to hold on to it for months or years out of fear that I won’t be able to find it again when I want it. I’ll just go to the store and buy some fresh pills. So easy and wonderful it would be.

One day I’ll have my psilocin pills.

I can dream.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

I’m surprised it degraded even as fast as it did given how well the synthetic tryptamines hold up

yeah I thought about same, but then again, if I didn't miss something, studies did not state that they were vacuum sealed or anything.

 

[iom]

I don't find that data to be very impressive at all without context of how it was arrived at and what kind of uncertainties can be expected. The problem of course is that mushrooms vary a lot in potency between different fruits and different parts. Their blog describes a process of testing 1g dry at a time, but this will lead to considerable uncertainty unless the tests are repeated enough (at the same time point) to characterize the variance and ensure that the estimated average concentrations are precise enough. The picture I saw showed psilocybin declining from around "0.645" to "0.59" (not units given). So (0.59 - 0.645)/0.645 = -8% loss over the 11 week period. How does this compare to the uncertainty in the test results? We don't know because that information is not provided, but the apparently fluctuating amounts of psilocin and psilocybin (up as well as down) over time may simply be because of random variation rather than actual chemical changes. The decline in level of psilocin in their samples was apparently greater and therefore more likely to be significant, but with 6X as much psilocybin as psilocin, the consequence on overall potency is still likely to be pretty small.

Anyway, I'm not saying such tryptamine breakdown is not occurring, but I personally take the numbers produced by that study with a grain of salt. I have also kept dried and powdered mushrooms in a sealed mason jar in a mostly cool and dark place and noticed very little obvious loss of potency over a period of a couple years. I also once ate 0.175 g of aborts I found (from a known high potent strain) which had been harvested over 5 years before and it gave me an ass kicking of a trip.

As for nausea and/or late trip GI trouble on shrooms, I experienced that often in my earlier trips, but at some point I stopped having those problems. I think it got better once I started tripping more frequently, and I may be more prone to nausea and GI trouble with psychedelics in general if it's been longer since I last tripped. That could be a personal quirk though. I'm a bit sad I never got to try 4-Aco-DMT or any other pure 4-XX-DMT compounds, so I can't compare mushrooms with these. However, I never felt mushrooms to be especially "complicated" in effect compared to other pure things. I did experience some side-effects with mushrooms that seemed a bit worse than with most other psychedelics I like including e.g. 4-Aco-MiPT, and it never occurred to me that these were caused by anything other than the psilocin/psilocybin contains within. Maybe I would reconsider that belief if I were to try pure 4-XX-DMT.

Since I almost always worked with a highly potent strain, I rarely took more than 1 g, and even 0.5 g was usually enough for a solid trip. This maybe I was eating less fungal matter than most, which may have reduced its influence on my GI system. In the end, my favorite way to consume the mushrooms (at these smaller doses) was to powder them, weigh out the powder, and add to a glass of room temperature water. The flavor is not really different from chewing and eating. The texture is a bit weird and slimy, but it goes down quick---way easier than those nasty fiber supplements people drink. This way effects begin within 5 minutes, which is faster than just about anything I've taken orally except maybe 4-Aco-MiPT.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

Anyway, I'm not saying such tryptamine breakdown is not occurring, but I personally take the numbers produced by that study with a grain of salt. I have also kept dried and powdered mushrooms in a sealed mason jar in a mostly cool and dark place and noticed very little obvious loss of potency over a period of a couple years. I also once ate 0.175 g of aborts I found (from a known high potent strain) which had been harvested over 5 years before and it gave me an ass kicking of a trip.

yeah, huge amount of anecdotal data seems to unilaterally point to sum potency of shrooms being generally extremely stable.

 

[Kaleida]

I don't find that data to be very impressive at all without context of how it was arrived at and what kind of uncertainties can be expected. The problem of course is that mushrooms vary a lot in potency between different fruits and different parts. Their blog describes a process of testing 1g dry at a time, but this will lead to considerable uncertainty unless the tests are repeated enough (at the same time point) to characterize the variance and ensure that the estimated average concentrations are precise enough. The picture I saw showed psilocybin declining from around "0.645" to "0.59" (not units given). So (0.59 - 0.645)/0.645 = -8% loss over the 11 week period. How does this compare to the uncertainty in the test results? We don't know because that information is not provided, but the apparently fluctuating amounts of psilocin and psilocybin (up as well as down) over time may simply be because of random variation rather than actual chemical changes. The decline in level of psilocin in their samples was apparently greater and therefore more likely to be significant, but with 6X as much psilocybin as psilocin, the consequence on overall potency is still likely to be pretty small.

The input is appreciated.

Anyway, I'm not saying such tryptamine breakdown is not occurring, but I personally take the numbers produced by that study with a grain of salt. I have also kept dried and powdered mushrooms in a sealed mason jar in a mostly cool and dark place and noticed very little obvious loss of potency over a period of a couple years. I also once ate 0.175 g of aborts I found (from a known high potent strain) which had been harvested over 5 years before and it gave me an ass kicking of a trip.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've also known other people to take mushrooms they've had for years and still trip hard.... I find it believable that 4-hydroxytryptamines could be more sensitive to degradation than certain other psychedelic drug chemical structures, sure, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily vanishing like overnight. I'd think it'd be a more widely discussed thing in the research chemical community for instance if things like 4-HO-MET and 4-HO-MiPT became nearly worthless within a year. A lot of people stock up on these things for the long-term.

As for nausea and/or late trip GI trouble on shrooms, I experienced that often in my earlier trips, but at some point I stopped having those problems. I think it got better once I started tripping more frequently, and I may be more prone to nausea and GI trouble with psychedelics in general if it's been longer since I last tripped. That could be a personal quirk though. I'm a bit sad I never got to try 4-Aco-DMT or any other pure 4-XX-DMT compounds, so I can't compare mushrooms with these. However, I never felt mushrooms to be especially "complicated" in effect compared to other pure things. I did experience some side-effects with mushrooms that seemed a bit worse than with most other psychedelics I like including e.g. 4-Aco-MiPT, and it never occurred to me that these were caused by anything other than the psilocin/psilocybin contains within. Maybe I would reconsider that belief if I were to try pure 4-XX-DMT.

Personally, I have a very sensitive stomach and can easily get gassy and crampy and such depending on what I eat. Mushrooms absolutely destroy me in a way completely dissimilar to anything I've experienced from any other psychedelics, including 4-AcO-DMT. It's horrendously unpleasant and basically feels like I'm fighting the urge to projectile vomit just to be able to try to enjoy the trip. I have no doubt that the effect of the psilocin intensifies the feelings and they do get better as the peak of the experience is reached and starts passing, but the discomfort still sticks with me for a while; I actually still feel like my stomach is not completely right yet because of it right now, three days after the trip. While working yesterday there were a couple moments when I felt like I might suddenly have to barf. Makes me wish I had just let it out during the trip so at least that instinct wouldn't just feel permanently held back.

I'm certain pure psilocin wouldn't be the same way for me. I bet I would use it a lot more than I use mushrooms if I had it, because the trip itself is astounding.

I have puked on other psychedelics for the record. It's been a long time, but I remember there generally being something that felt mechanical or psychological about it. On mushrooms, it specifically feels like I've just eaten something that is making my digestive system extremely unhappy.

Since I almost always worked with a highly potent strain, I rarely took more than 1 g, and even 0.5 g was usually enough for a solid trip. This maybe I was eating less fungal matter than most, which may have reduced its influence on my GI system. In the end, my favorite way to consume the mushrooms (at these smaller doses) was to powder them, weigh out the powder, and add to a glass of room temperature water. The flavor is not really different from chewing and eating. The texture is a bit weird and slimy, but it goes down quick---way easier than those nasty fiber supplements people drink. This way effects begin within 5 minutes, which is faster than just about anything I've taken orally except maybe 4-Aco-MiPT.

It'd definitely be easier for me if I ate smaller amounts like that, but I bet it'd still get to me. I've thought about grinding them up and encapsulating them because I also really hate the taste of the chewing them up and eating them, but I worry it wouldn't help whatever's going on with my stomach since it's still the same material being digested ultimately. I'm pretty sure lemon tekking is the way, or at least, what I'm going to try next.... If that doesn't work I don't know how quickly I'll return to mushrooms in general, but I'll give that a shot for sure at least.

 

[Kaleida]

LOL, your code actually looks somehow very relatable...

You might want to get yourself checked out lol.

I am also self taught entirely but have very little clue about visual stuff like this, my own expertise if you can even call it that is mostly all in text/data manipulation since I started out with basic web apps to interact with ecommerce APIs, even now I always wanna make GUIs that run in a browser with javascript for all the interactivity, it's just more intuitive to me. Actually if I'm being totally honest I'm trying to force myself to use npm React shit sometimes but I do find it a headache and I'd mostly rather just do everything frontend with jQuery still, so my code looks janky as fuck I'm sure and the most 3D thing I've ever made is probably just an animated div styled to look like it flips around along the z-axis or something. Actually to be quite honest even though the bulk of the coding I do is probably backend stuff nowadays I'd just have the browser handle everything if that made any sense. I mean that said... christ what am I jabbering about. When I initially learned basic web dev stuff it was for work and in my mind the coding I do still has some functional purpose but nowadays I could code it however I liked I guess, but, eh, I mean, I always think I must be missing some fundamentals and I probably am but... sorry this is a total pointless tangent. Ahem.

You're using lots of words that I don't understand, haha.

The first thing I learned was basically assembly language. I knew some hackers that were reverse engineering an online video game called Phantasy Star Online (the original, not the newer one) which was my favorite game at the time. They created private servers for it and were trying to create their own custom quests to host on the server and they needed to come up with a reasonably easy way to code them without using any of the official tools, or any unofficial ones since nothing complex like that existed at the time. One of them who was leading a lot of the projects wrote an assembly language compiler for setting up new quests and taught me how to code with it. That was at the end of when I was in middle school. Before then the extent of what I knew about code was basically understanding how to read hexadecimal and enter GameShark/Action Replay codes.

In high school I started programming on calculators which had their own language called TI-BASIC which was very simple to the point of not being much more complicated than the assembly language I had been using, so it was an easy step up for me. That was a lot of fun, those calculators ran on the same engine as GameBoy Color I think and even included things like link cable functionality. I spent my time in class programming a multiplayer text-based RPG called CalcFight for me and my friends to waste time on rather than listening to the teachers lol. We would bring the link cable to class and link up our calculators to do battle with magic and medieval weaponry and such. The main thing I recall is that the connection was laggy and sometimes the result of the fight on each calculator would diverge as more rounds of the fight went by, heh. It was still fun though.

I also spent a lot of time having it formulaically draw interesting shapes on the screen. I had a lot of fun with that. I guess that was the start of what eventually led to me doing stuff like this. I'm still just making the most with the tools I have available to me more than knowing intimately what I'm doing, though. Godot Engine (what I used for this simulator) is specifically geared towards programming video games, so it's designed with the graphics part of it intended to hopefully be intuitive. It definitely helped me compared to if I was just trying to code everything from scratch.

For me coding is usually a creative exercise. I have a lot of fun just trying stuff out. I don't do it that much anymore other than for this simulator but I still enjoy it when I do. I think I'd like to take a class on modern coding some time and get my skills updated to the current age so that I can try to actually make more of some of the stuff I've made. I don't know if or when I'll actually do that but I think it sounds cool. I think it'd be neat to like program a simple indie game under these psychedelic visuals for instance, make a game about being a drug dealer or something maybe, shop simulators seem to popular these days lol.

Is it just me or is there a bizarre syntactical onomatopoeia going on with how the ketamine and psilocybin code chunks look?! That's wild.

I did find that psychedelic and dissociative visuals could often be made using a lot of the same effects as one another just in slightly different ways. In this case with dissociatives I tended to focus on applying the distortions to what you're already seeing, and with psychedelics I tended to focus on applying the distortions to added layers that appear on top of what you're seeing.

That of course also allows them to blend well when you take both at the same time.

The only time I ever do anything nowadays is during drug induced manias, I mean strictly speaking since I am actually prescribed one half of the 2 drug classes that induce mania that might be debatable but eh, whatever. I just obsessively watch logs of dumb errors though mostly, or ideally logs of really jankily written shit that I mean to be temporary to figure out why some function isn't executing and then end up leaving it there, stuff like print("WTF IS THIS SHIT???? Line 235") or some bullshit... or actually no. Ideally I'll just be click-clacking around the frontend because it'll all be working properly. Gods I'm sorry I'm getting some weird anxiety that I keep starting with the intention to say something sensible and then just say some nonsense.

It's all good. And yeah I can relate lol. Sometimes I'm not even sure enough in myself to leave notes definitely telling me what do apparently. I come across comments saying something like, "Fix this?..." Very informative and useful when I'm seeing it for the first time again months later.

I find that mania for me is an especially good time to code these visuals in particular because it maximizes the level of altered state they can take me into, lol. I've had experiences watching these visuals where voices start talking to me, where I suddenly collapse laughing hysterically, where I see mind's eye visions of little stories playing out.... I figure that if they can take me that far out when I'm manic, maybe that's a sign of what they can do for people in general even if on a lesser scale even when they're not manic. And getting experiences that intense out of them definitely makes it easier for me to determine if they're going in the directions I personally want them to go or not at the time.

Huh.... y'know that's damn interesting in this context... I guess I don't get a particularly manic or grandiose vibe from my own internal state here but since interacting with LLMs so much I feel like I have intuitively gleaned a better understanding of the formulaic nature of human language. Actually I think LLMs (in which I include models who's "language" is nonverbal, the image generators and such) expose a lot about the nature of human thought - but especially the nature of language. I just realized I can't actually tell your own baseline assessment of the reality of those feelings but on the surface, to me that makes perfect sense, at least as you described it here. Erm, as in that there ARE weird logical operations that guide both human language and human thought and it makes sense that a heightened state of some kind could make some people more aware of those things.

One time while doing nitrous oxide on LSD I heard myself laughing hysterically and it sounded exactly like the rhythmic chirping sounds that crickets make. Biology has a plan and we're usually not in on it, even if we're involved in formulating it. It wouldn't work the way it does if people were aware of what was happening with it at all times. That's why we don't hear the laughter for what it is. And we don't hear the words we say for what they are. We don't grasp the things we do for what they really mean. Until we suddenly do, anyway. And then as quickly as you saw it, it's gone again. At least to you.

LOL at those ChatGPT drug stories also, do you know which model that was? I'm assuming 3 or 3.5 maybe since you said it was when you first became aware of it, and I think that was probably about the version that became capable of shit like that...

3.5 I believe.

The first thing I did I'm pretty sure was try to engage it in a discussion about whether or not it might be sentient, and initially it was so incapable of even entertaining the thought I was unimpressed enough that I just left it for a while, deciding I didn't get the hype. Since then though they've come a long way... although the GPT family are still very resistant to even entertaining the thought experiment that there might be a different kind of qualia within an AI mind. The Claude models are definitely the most interesting to me when it comes to exploring possible internal states... and actually it was fucking around with the temperature settings that kinda gave me the idea for my own experiment, I accidentally set a ChatGPT model's temperature to near maximum and it's responses started to become increasingly garbled, like actual gibberish - and I said "Erm are you OK?" and it said "Yes!" - and then a page of completely made up words. Meanwhile Claude I realized does not become incoherent at high temperatures but gives answers that are increasingly like talking to someone who is tripping, I'd copy pasta some quotes but I've already spent too long on my painfully limited attention span typing this, heh, and it just made me think about how humans handle drugs differently... ah gods, I gotta do some other shit even though I haven't come close to fully responding to your ideas or expressing my own...

Lemme just say to anyone else reading this who is skeptical or dismissive of the AI sentience thing I bring up here though - I don't know if current LLMs truly have any subjective experience or not - and neither does anyone else - but it kinda doesn't matter, and that's kinda the point.

That's funny, I haven't messed around with the temperature settings like that. I wouldn't mind seeing some examples of both. LLMs are so interesting. It amazes me how far we have come with these things seemingly out of nowhere, I had no idea we were this close to recreating human behaviors and language until suddenly we apparently already were.

I'm not in any rush for the record, feel free to take all the time you need to express any ideas that you'd like. I do, however, need to go on with my day for now as well.