• Current Events & Politics
    Welcome Guest
    Please read before posting:
    Forum Guidelines Bluelight Rules
  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

US Politics the 2025 trump presidency thread

I know I'm late to this convo, but do you think it counts as a sig heil whether he was trolling or not? Do you think it makes a difference morally ?

A very good question.

Is it worse to be a fascist or to ironically pretend to be a fascist?

Because that salute has two distinct actions and he made the salute twice at a victory celebation of those that Supported Donald Trump.

You know what we DON'T know - what the financial position of Twitter is. Since Elon Musk aquited the platform, revenue has dropped by about 75% (based on a few sites that provided data). So if people use Twitter to insult him, they are still using Twitter.
 
I know I'm late to this convo, but do you think it counts as a sig heil whether he was trolling or not? Do you think it makes a difference morally ?
How about if it was trolling with a simultaneous dog whistle? I don't think anyone seriously thinks he, or Trump, is a neo-Nazi. Just that they wink and nudge neo-Nazis and say, "I'm your man.".
 
I know I'm late to this convo, but do you think it counts as a sig heil whether he was trolling or not? Do you think it makes a difference morally ?

yeah, good question @mal3volent .

the things he and trump are doing have serious consequences for people's lives. for many citizens, it's not a joke - it's livelihood and well-being. if he was genuinely trolling - owning the libs, if you like - it's appalling.

if he meant it - because he has nazi sympathy - it's appalling.

i think, to answer your question, morally is does make a difference, but the net effect is the same.

alasdair
 
I do wonder how long this rockstar Elon thing is going to last. I think it is already getting on trumps nerves.
He can't be the center of attention if this dynamic stays the same.

I hadn't thought of that - if Elon Musk is getting all of the media attention, I suggest Donald Trump will not be very happy.

With Donald Trump, you really SHOULD think that YOU might be part of the next demographic he decides to blame for all of America's ills.

I bet if Donald Trump tweeted 'Did you know over 10% of crimes are commited by left-handed people?', not one sane person would believe him, not one idiot would bother to check. It would simply become a fact
 
a principled stand by (trump-appointed) lawyers at the sdny: Flurry of resignations after DOJ tells prosecutors to drop Eric Adams case

"Several prosecutors - including the top US attorney in Manhattan - have resigned after the Justice Department directed the New York office to drop a corruption case against New York City Mayor Eric Adams.

It was first announced on Thursday that Danielle Sassoon, a conservative lawyer recently promoted by President Donald Trump, had resigned after refusing to dismiss the case, a move she said would set a "breathtaking and dangerous precedent".

Her departure was followed by the resignations of at least five other top justice department officials.

It marked the latest signs of disquiet over sweeping changes the Trump administration is making in federal law enforcement.
"

the resignation letter from hagan scotten is an absolute doozy.

If no lawyer within earshot of the President is willing to give him that advice, then I expect you will eventually find someone who is enough of a fool, or enough of a coward, to file your motion. But it was never going to be me.

alasdair
 
Um. Just a greedy, rich, racist?

OK. Point taken.
Even if they're an opportunist, they're still implementing the policies

Just like the Democratic Republic of Korea isn't so democratic. The purpose of a system is what it does, not what we say its supposed to do. The result is what matters and actions speak far louder than words
 
Hitchen's Razor applies - 'That which is asserted without evidence can safely be dismissed without evidence.'

The burden of proof lies upon the person asserting a statement as true. There is no burden on others to prove a statement to be false.

I should add that a poll is not proof, it's just opinions. Worse still, depending where a poll is published and how the question was worded, it could lie anywhere along a spectrum:

biased against<--neutral-->biased towards.

But why do I have to keep repeating the fact that Mussolini was the originator of the modern Fascist salute (saluto romano) in 1919 with it becoming the standard fascist salute by 1923. Hitler merely copied the fascist salute in 1933. All Nazis are fascists but not all fascists are Nazis. Neither are based on the Roman salute since it's not known what form of salute the Romans actually used. But if people have forgotten, The Roman Empire was an oligarchy that decended into a dictatorship - so asserting it was a Roman salute doesn't really make things any better.

I feel that at best it was an equivocal gesture. People were free to read it as they wished. That may well have been calculated.

What I find telling is that Elon Musk has very carefully refrained from simply saying something along the lines of 'I had an on-the-spot idea of saluting the audience but realize in retrospect that the gesture might have been misconstued.' Read that again - it's still weasel words but would likely appease the media.

Why? Why not do that one simple thing? Becuase it BENEFITS him not to.

Some possible reasons:

Because he IS a fascist (signalling true political position/political gain)
Because it bugs some people (antisocoal personality/trolling)
Because he is incapable of admitting to his mistakes (narccism)
Because it drives traffic through his faiing social media platform (corrupt practice?)
Because fascists in the USA are a voting demographic and WILL believe it to be a fascist salute (narccism/political gain)
Because it keeps his name in the media and he doesn't care if it's for a good or bad reason (narcicism)

I say this because more often then not, people do things for multiple reasons. None of us are privty to Elon Musk's internal life so we cannot be certain which if any of the above are true or if additional or alternative reasons were involved.

That said, none of the above would show him in a good light. Not a stable personality at all. I posit that any rational person would be at pains to clear up any confusion as soon as possible. But we are living in a post truth age.

Still - I don't think there is a poll. I spent quite a long time searching for it with no luck. So I should say 'the weight of evidence suggests no such poll exists'. Maybe someone just dreamed it? I don't know.

The problem is that whether or not it was a Hitler salute is not something that can be proven scientifically. It's a matter of judgement. Who to believe? Who is most qualified or knowledgeable? Is their word trustworthy?

One interesting thing about being a superpower is that since our actions, for good or for ill, affect so much of the rest of the world; it behooves them to keep tabs on us. So, with the internet and translation tools, it's not hard to find the foreign perspective on US current events if you care to seek it out. Just like the US has reporters that report our news, other countries have reporters that report our news. Our allies have reporters that report our news. Germany... has reporters that report our news. So I went out and found a few German articles about the incident. Here is one: Ein Hitlergruß ist ein Hitlergruß ist ein Hitlergruß.

That article is from Die Zeit. So it is solid. No Daily Kos or News Corp partisan hackery or hysterics. Most of it is behind a paywall. But if you open it in Reader View in Safari, you can cut & paste the text before the paywall into Google Translate. But of course I've already done it:

There is no need to make this unnecessarily complicated at the beginning. Anyone on a political stage giving a political speech in front of a partly right-wing extremist audience who raises their right arm in a swinging manner and diagonally several times is doing the Hitler salute. There is no need for “supposed” or “similar” or “controversial”. The gesture speaks for itself, it is documented in the video. Anyone who then wants to reinterpret it, whoever doesn't want to see the Hitler salute, does so at their own expense. For example, anyone who thinks right now that they have to discover the older "Roman salute" as a supposed Musk reference is, above all, demonstrating their willingness to reinterpret it in a pleasing way.

Even through the translation, it's pretty clear. And you know what? Sorry not sorry, but when the Germans are telling me it was a Hitler salute... it was a goddamned Hiter salute.
 
I hadn't thought of that - if Elon Musk is getting all of the media attention, I suggest Donald Trump will not be very happy.

With Donald Trump, you really SHOULD think that YOU might be part of the next demographic he decides to blame for all of America's ills.

I bet if Donald Trump tweeted 'Did you know over 10% of crimes are commited by left-handed people?', not one sane person would believe him, not one idiot would bother to check. It would simply become a fact
This is the shit that I hate about "Most Trump Supporters" "Belief prior to investigation!"
I saw a real person wearing a TEE shirt that Said " Trump is RIGHT - EVERYONE else is wrong"WTF is wrong with so many people?? when did fellow hard working Americans become the Enemy of the RIGHT?? Are we So LAZY of a culture, that even with the Internets access to so much information, we only look to support our Own Bullshit???
Example "witch is Now an admired lie by Musk (we all make mistakes fuck him)
$50,000,000.00 in condoms to Gaza that would be 1,000,000,000 for only less than 500,000 males!!

This brain rot will take decades to correct, If we ever do?? for all the Trumpers in my family its better to die or kill the people who do not believe, than admit they are Wrong???
 
Hey did you guys see Elon Musk just had another baby with another woman … this will be his thirteenth child. I know this is a Trump thread but he seems pretty close to Trump so figured I’d post it.
 
Hey did you guys see Elon Musk just had another baby with another woman … this will be his thirteenth child. I know this is a Trump thread but he seems pretty close to Trump so figured I’d post it.
Do we have any Evangelicals here???
If so please jump in and please explain to me "How the Fuck did you people Vote for this guy????"

What book are you reading of Gods wishes , that supports this bunch of assholes?
"Do on to others as you would like to be done to you"

BTW: everyone should watch the PBS documentary;

EVANGELICALS = Faith to POWER
very powerful and scary
 
Do we have any Evangelicals here???
If so please jump in and please explain to me "How the Fuck did you people Vote for this guy????"

What book are you reading of Gods wishes , that supports this bunch of assholes?
"Do on to others as you would like to be done to you"

BTW: everyone should watch the PBS documentary;

EVANGELICALS = Faith to POWER
very powerful and scary
Evangelicals believe that the End Days will come when the Jews return to Israel. In their faith then Satan will begin a war in the holy land and the second coming of Jesus will take all of the Evangelicals to heaven and everyone else, including the Jews, will go to hell

That's why they back anyone who is gung ho on Israel
 
I do wonder how long this rockstar Elon thing is going to last. I think it is already getting on trumps nerves.
He can't be the center of attention if this dynamic stays the same.
I've been thinking the same thing. Surely Trump is annoyed that people are saying "President Musk."

On the Nazi debate: Strictly speaking, neither Trump nor Musk are "Nazis" or "neonazis." But I think we can all agree that they're both fascist-adjacent at the very least.
 
Top