US Politics the 2025 trump presidency thread

[tryptakid]

Kamala probably would've done this too. No big diff.

Isn't there supposed to be some sort of church and state separation?

I could have sworn that was written somewhere... oh the first amendment!

 

[alasdairm]

I'm not even a die hard Trump fan but I'm sick of the constant misrepresentations.

you mean like claiming "most people" think elon didn't give a nazi salute and that the claim is supported by "polls".

that kind of misrepresentation?

Link? Evidence? Not just a left wing blog or specialty interest paper please. I want to see primary evidence.

you demand evidence of others but you can't, or won't, back up your own claims with links, evidence.

i think you're better than this man. just hold yourself to the same standard to which you hold others?

alasdair

 

[alasdairm]

Elon purposely hires people like this, why do you think he unbanned all of the people spreading white supremacy content when be bought twitter?

He even started a poll on twitter now to bring this racist, white supremacist kid back

they're absolutely not racists. but racists and white supremacists love them and flock to them. hmmm.

you are the company you keep? pretty much.

alasdair

 

[4DQSAR]

Hitchen's Razor is the most appropriate tool. It simply states 'that which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence'.

The entire scientific method is based on this premise.

If someone simply chooses to 'believe' something and no amount of evidence will alter that believe, they are behaving in an irrational manner (as humans are want to do).

Confermation bias is an unconscious force acting on all of us and uncertaintly causes cognative dissonence. That's why people have irrational beliefs. It feels more 'comfortable' than accepting that no amount of evidence can PROVE a statment, only weight the proberbilities of a given position to be the correct one.

Because nobody want's to admit they MIGHT be wrong. I always try to be open to new evidence and take a position based on weight of evidence.

Someone made a very good point about how the Democratic party handled the whole 'Project 2025' thing. They didn't even attempt to disect the intents and warn people of possible negative outcomes. But rather they more or less held up a copy of it and suggested how sinister it all seemed. You have got to admit fault to ensure those same issues aren't repeated.

 

[alasdairm]

Hitchen's Razor is the most appropriate tool. It simply states 'that which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence'.

nice point. nice post.

i also have to remind myself that you can't discuss an issue with somebody using rational arguments, if they did not arrive at their position rationally.

alasdair

 

[4DQSAR]

I feel it also worth noting that the eminent philospher Karl Popper noted that 'by very definition, an unfalsifiable statment carries no weight of evidence'.

FAITH is an entirely different thing from FACT.

So while people are free to 'believe' what they wish, asserting a belief as a fact is irrational.

 

[Foreigner]

But good governance isn't.

That's the problem I (and many people) have with the man. Mind games aren't good when people rely on you. Mind games aren't appropriate when you can't just leave your job and work somewhere else - citizens of the US have to live here, as do their families.

This isn't some cutthroat company whose ethics might be too risque for you and if so, seek work elsewhere, this is our home.

That's the problem.

I'm sorry but you have no idea how politics work, especially behind the scenes.

 

[Foreigner]

you mean like claiming "most people" think elon didn't give a nazi salute and that the claim is supported by "polls".

that kind of misrepresentation?

That's not misrepresentation. Misrepresentation is deliberately lying about what his policies are, his intentions, and rewriting his statements for a newsbyte. All of which happen regularly.

you demand evidence of others but you can't, or won't, back up your own claims with links, evidence.

i think you're better than this man. just hold yourself to the same standard to which you hold others?

I've gone the evidence route on these forums before. I spend a half hour or more of my day putting together something only for my opponents to just completely ignore it. I don't waste my time anymore.

If you don't believe the polls I'm talking about exist, then good for you. I've informed you now if you want to learn more you can just go look. The left can lose its mind over an imagined sig heil all they way, makes no difference to me.

This isn't an evidence-based discussion forum, at least not in the social subs. I learned that when dealing with the rabid pro-vax people.

 

[alasdairm]

I don't waste my time anymore.

that's fair enough. but why do you then ask others to provide you with evidence? why should they waste their time?

If you don't believe the polls I'm talking about exist, then good for you.

you've given me no reason to believe they exist therefore i do not believe they exist.

This isn't an evidence-based discussion forum

sure it is (if you wish a claim to be taken seriously).

alasdair

 

[someguyontheinternet]

That's not misrepresentation. Misrepresentation is deliberately lying about what his policies are, his intentions, and rewriting his statements for a newsbyte. All of which happen regularly.



I've gone the evidence route on these forums before. I spend a half hour or more of my day putting together something only for my opponents to just completely ignore it. I don't waste my time anymore.

If you don't believe the polls I'm talking about exist, then good for you. I've informed you now if you want to learn more you can just go look. The left can lose its mind over an imagined sig heil all they way, makes no difference to me.

This isn't an evidence-based discussion forum, at least not in the social subs. I learned that when dealing with the rabid pro-vax people.

Misrepresentation of facts in order to put specific policies in place is still misrepresentation

It is rather interesting how people like to tell others to do the research when they don't have anything to back up their statements

 

[4DQSAR]

I've gone the evidence route on these forums before. I spend a half hour or more of my day putting together something only for my opponents to just completely ignore it. I don't waste my time anymore.

Then why didn't you simply employ Hitchen's Razor and make it clear that you were doing so?

So your position is 'because someone else acted irrationally, it's rational for me to adopt their behaviors?'

Because that doesn't make an ounce of sense. Do you seek discussion or merely to be the loudest voice?

 

[tryptakid]

I'm sorry but you have no idea how politics work, especially behind the scenes.

Actually I do; I've worked in government.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Never listen to experts or people involved in the field. Only business people are trustworthy now I guess

Because the manager knows better how to run the line than the line workers. In the name of profit!

 

[brokedownpalace10]

That's not misrepresentation. Misrepresentation is deliberately lying about what his policies are, his intentions, and rewriting his statements for a newsbyte. All of which happen regularly.

So, you respond by just making up more shit!

mis·rep·re·sen·ta·tion
noun
the action or offense of giving a false or misleading account of the nature of something.

If you don't believe the polls I'm talking about exist, then good for you

People can believe what they like. That's true. As you say, they can certainly decide whether to believe anything you say, or not.

cred·i·bil·i·ty
noun
the quality of being trusted and believed in.



Words matter.

 

[JackARoe]

Here have a chuckle. My retired cop neighbor has been a Trump supporter. His wife and daughter are totally Democrat though. So I just saw my neighbor the other day, he was so upset that the January 6 (inmates) got paroled. He didn’t agree with those people beating up on cops and I said tough shit that’s what you voted for. He is actually starting something online to protest that ha ha ha ha.

There really is no excuse anymore. There is ignorance, and there are levels of gullible that were just starting to map out.

 

[4DQSAR]

Yes - I checked and indeed Donald Trump did make that promise some time ago.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

 

[4DQSAR]

It seems to me that Donald Trump may not intend to do what he says, but rather he is setting up a negotiating position. The optics of his actions are terrible but it's his second term so he can do what he likes, I suppose.

Given his track record, I have to wonder how long the 'experts' he's installed for various projects will remain in those positions. Elon Musk in particular seems like someone whose ego prevents him accepting any form of compromise & Donald Trump is a little touchy about loyalty. Many may say he values loyalty over ability and what he considers disloyalty can appear tritivial to others,

So let's just say it's going to be interesting to watch.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

It seems to me that Donald Trump may not intend to do what he says, but rather he is setting up a negotiating position. The optics of his actions are terrible but it's his second term so he can do what he likes, I suppose.

Given his track record, I have to wonder how long the 'experts' he's installed for various projects will remain in those positions. Elon Musk in particular seems like someone whose ego prevents him accepting any form of compromise & Donald Trump is a little touchy about loyalty. Many may say he values loyalty over ability and what he considers disloyalty can appear tritivial to others,

So let's just say it's going to be interesting to watch.

He seems to do what he says an awful lot. Especially when he suggests at things in a joking manner

"hey you know we won't do that but it probably wouldn't be too bad of an idea if someone did right?"

Then the extremist positions can easily be written off as a joke until its enacted

 

[4DQSAR]

Oh he does, but on the issues mentioned in the video, I'm more inclined to think it's a negotiating position. I'm not saying I'm certain, it's just that it IS how some businessmen approach any possible deal.