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  • TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | paranoid android

Recovery Started methadone :(

T

tibberous

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Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
21
These last 4 months have been the hardest in my life. I got clean, and stayed clean for several weeks. But I can't find work, couldn't focus and have no friends. Eventually I relapsed a couple times, though not really enough to get sick.

3 days ago I started methadone, and this morning had my 3rd dose of 35mg. Yesterday I laid in bed all day and slept comfortably, but today even 2 hours after dosing I still feel terrible. I'm not sick, I'm suicidal - I thought methadone would make me feel better, but the idea of having to go there every morning and have blood work done (I hate needles) this week, it just makes me want to not show back up. I had a 35mg take home, and I almost didn't take it, but I swallowed the whole thing hoping it would make me comfortable and tired. But it didn't, and now I wish I had never started and am scared I'm going to be horribly sick even though I only used 3 days.

I am thinking about just not going tomorrow and being done. If I get sick, I can get fentanyl, which I heard is easier to detox from. The problem isn't that I can't get clean, it is that I have no job or friends or family or money; the only thing I have to look forward to at all is getting high. I was happier in prison. I want to take my own life, but want to sign up for Cryonics possibly before I do. I wish I could just find a job I didn't hate so I could get back in a routine. I wish I was brave enough to just OD, but I've been narcan'd like 6 times and I'm terrified I won't die and will have wasted $160.

I think I'm going to try to relax and see if the methadone will "work". How sick should I be quitting 35mg? It feels much weaker than fentanyl, but it sounds like methadone makes you much sicker in relation to how good you feel. If I get sick, would it be smart to use fentanyl to feel better then just detox from the fentanyl? I'm getting tired of relapsing, I'm even getting tired of temporarily being high but still basically being bedridden. I think I need to just feel better to the point where I can end my life and be done with it. I have no kids, no one who loves me besides my dad - I just had too many things go wrong and made too many mistakes. I pray someone would help me, but I can't live like this; I don't know what else to do.
 
I'd strongly suggest that you try to stick to the methadone program. Once you stabilize, you can more easily address whatever other problems you're having. It may be that you just need a higher dose.
Personally, I loved methadone. The only caveat is: don't get arrested. Coming off it in jail is hell.
 
Methadone only has half the potency of morphine. It's used because it's cheap and long-acting. in fact, it accumulates in the body so over successive days the amount in the body will increase.

That said, I have no idea how much fentanyl you were consuming or how frequently, but it may be the case that 35mg isn't sufficient.

Stabilizing a client on methadone can take a while and may involve the dose being altered.
 
I'm surprised to hear you say you loved methadone. It just seems like the environment is very prison like or something - they know they have a drug you need/want, so they make you come early and screw around forever and the state requires you to get blood drawn. But I'd rather have $40 in fentanyl than methadone - if I could find a job id quit going in a second and just go back to working and buying drugs. For a year I did door to door sales, but it just kept getting harder and harder. And now I can't find a job doing anything because of my criminal record. That's really why I want to take my life, not only am I alone, I have no way to even earn anything. Before Christmas, my dad gave me $500, and I thought about buying 2g's and just overdosing. There is part of me that thinks this is just temporary, that something will eventually change, but then there is another part that thinks this is just my life now and the sooner I end it the less I'll suffer.

I know I can't feel the methadone I took today at all. The last thing I want to do is wake up tomorrow at 9am, get in my snow covered car, and fuck around an hour to get 1 more dose of a drug I can barely tell I took. I seriously want to hold up a cardboard sign at an intersection until I have $40 to go get fentanyl. I don't feel relaxed, tired, nothing; I actually feel kind of uncomfortable and hot :/ I wish I had bought Klonopins.
 
jasperkent said:
Personally, I loved methadone. The only caveat is: don't get arrested. Coming off it in jail is hell.
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The onset time and time to peak plasma level can be anywhere from 4 to 9 hours. People for whom the peak plasma level occurs sooner are more likely to find it euphoric.

But I'm told IV methadone is pretty amazing. I wouldn't know, I don't use pins. BUT I was gifted an entire 1000ml bottle of the stuff and proceeded to freebase the methadone out of solution. Being the freebase you can vape it. Vaped methadone is one of the most powerful opioid rushes I've ever experienced but I noted that it didn't last for 24 hours. After 12 hours I was tempted to do it again.

I showed someone else how to freebase methadone and it wrecked there life and the lives of all the people he showed. He was already on a methadone script but at the time there was a lively trade in street methadone and for the next few months I would see him and another guy hanging around the pharmacy closest to the HR agency (the one everyone went to for their daily pickups). You guessed it, they had figured out that compared to a £10 bag of H, methadone was much cheaper. It went on for a few months and they both just sort of disappeared.

What surprises me is that initially at least, UK treatment included the concept that in the end, the client would become free of opioid dependence. Now it seems like people are just being parked on methadone and latterly buprenorphine.

I can't speak for the former but I've read the original paper which suggested buprenorphine be used for opioid detoxification and the entire point was that they envisaged it only being used for a few weeks to help reduced the acute symptoms. It was not meant to be given for months or indeed years. But then I guess you don't make much money from a medicine only prescribed for a few weeks.
 
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tibberous said:
I'm surprised to hear you say you loved methadone.
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First of all, 35mg is a rather low dose. I was taking 200mg daily-- one dose early in the morning.
Secondly, where I am (TN, USA) methadone from a clinic is much cheaper than any street drug-- and safer and more consistent.
Third, I didn't get really high on methadone but I maintained a positive mood & outlook on it. Definitely a mild sense of euphoria that lasted all day.

Honestly, the only drawback was the long half-life and consequently extended WD time. But that was only an issue because I did something stupid (drove drunk) and got myself arrested.
 
If u say u only used a few times barely enough to get dependent again….35 mg of methadone is plenty to keep u well.

It jus doesn’t feel as recreational but u aren’t dope sick
 
jasperkent said:
I was taking 200mg daily-- one dose early in the morning.
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FTR, this was over10 years ago. It's probably difficult to get that amount from a clinic these days. For one thing, they try to steer people to buprenorphine (Subutex), which I personally don't like.
When I was in MAT, they'd give you whichever you wanted, almost any amount. The thinking was that keeping people from injecting street dope was a win, no matter what. I tend to agree with that. I got my dose upped to an amount I was actually enjoying-- much more than I really needed.
 
jasperkent said:
Oh, and withdrawing from methadone isn't nearly as bad as with fentanyl or other opioids. It just takes forever.
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Never taken it, but from what I've heard, once you've been on it a while it's harder than most opioids to get off, you just have medical assistance and guidance in maintenance.
 
Did you have a fentanyl habit going before you started the methadone? If so 35 mg is a low starter dose it might not be enough for you. If you weren't physically dependent before you started the methadone you won't get at all sick from stopping after only 3 days.

It kind of sounds like your unhappiness might be more mental health than methadone related. Did you just recently get out of prison? I've served multiple prison sentences and I can definitely relate to getting out and feeling lost and adrift with no friends and no real idea what to do with my life. For me it was hard getting out of prison where I had tons of social interaction and could hang out with my friends every day for hours if I wanted to and trying to transition to living alone with far fewer available acquaintances to spend time with. I know a lot of people who've had similar struggles socially after getting out, it's kind of a shock getting out to isolation after years living in a communal setting.

I'd probably try to form some social connections that might help make you feel more fulfilled and less alone. I don't know you or your situation enough to make specific recommendations but there are ways to connect with people in your area. 12 step meetings are one way you can meet people who'll support your sobriety there. I don't know what you like to do but if you're in a city you should be able to find groups online that meet up and things. If you work at it and don't give up and turn back to drugs you'll be able to the human connections you're missing right now.
 
I'm on 210mg of methadone rn, down from 380mg. I couldn't break through the sick which is why I got so high with the dosage in the first place.

I saved up a bunch of bottles from my carries for a "big quit" but failed miserably. I drank something like 3200mg of methadone (26 bottles i had saved up over time) and was still fucking sick so I completely relapsed. It was a lost cause.

I'm glad that I'm back on methadone though because it softens relapses. I've fucked up here or there but it doesn't take me completely off the rails. Stick with it but temper your expectations.
 
Tombs said:
I'm on 210mg of methadone rn, down from 380mg. I couldn't break through the sick which is why I got so high with the dosage in the first place.

I saved up a bunch of bottles from my carries for a "big quit" but failed miserably. I drank something like 3200mg of methadone (26 bottles i had saved up over time) and was still fucking sick so I completely relapsed. It was a lost cause.

I'm glad that I'm back on methadone though because it softens relapses. I've fucked up here or there but it doesn't take me completely off the rails. Stick with it but temper your expectations.
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I really appreciate that insight.

For a long time I have suspected that methadone is not the appropriate medication to treat fentanyl dependence.

Now the thing is, there has been a methadone derivative known since the 60s that is some x212 more potent than methadone. Yes, it is more costly to produce than methadone but it has a much longer duration of action and given that huge potency, it's not as if it would be prescribed in high does.

I refer to R-4066 or, to be specific, the levo alpha acetyl methadol derivative.

Methadone has a half-life of 8 hours, the stuff I mention has a half-life of 20.5 hours. Unlike methadone, no active metabolites, BUT hasn't the time come for us to admit we have no tools to treat people with a large fentanyl dependence and to move forward in developing better agents to treat people?

I feel almost certain that if the North American fentanyl epidemic had struck Europe, that drug would at least have been trialled.

People don't recover if they die.
 
Hey @tibberous maybe try to continue to give methadone a try & let it develop a little in your system.I t takes it a little while before you start to feel normal, especially if you have been using opiates before using the methadone.
I've tried the methadone route, but I ended up doing the Suboxone maintenance. I take 3 8mg/2mg(buprenorphine & naloxone) film/strips a day, and there are sometimes where I'll play with my dose some now that I've been on it for a while. I might take 1 strip in the morning & 1 in the evening, or i might take 2 strips at once and save the other one for another day.
I feel like I can manage my own treatment by doing that, because ultimately I want to get off of the stuff, and tapering won't really be a problem, I've got so many of these strips left each month because there are times where I won't take anything because I take other psych meds that sometimes help with the cravings too.
Maybe you can see a doctor about starting on some psych meds or something to help along with the methadone.
Anyways, take care and let us know how you've been doing.
 
jasperkent said:
Methadone has a half-life of 24 to 36 hours for most people. That's one of the reasons I liked it so much.
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No, methadone has a half-life of about 8 hours - but it has active metabolites in the form of normethadone and dinormethadone (the latter being the cardiotoxic one),
 
Just speaking from personal experience, I've quit methadone abruptly twice--
Once, I missed my ride to the clinic and had to wait 24hrs to go in again. I was fine. I didn't feel great, but I had no withdrawal symptoms whatsoever.
The second time was when I went to jail. Again, I was OK for the first 24hrs. Started feeling a little icky the second day, but didn't really feel bad till the third day.

YMMV.
 
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Well, with all drugs, YMMV but the average half-life of the parent drug, methadone, is 8.2 hours. It's the metabolites that have the longer duration of action.

As I have previously pointed out, it can take anywhere between 4-9 hours to reach peak plasma levels and metabolism will only take place on the absorbed portion of a dose.

But when used to treat pain, methadone is taken every 8 or 12 hours depending on the response of the patient. In the UK at least, when used for it's analgesic properties, it's dispensed as small tablets rather than as a linctus. I don't know how that affects the time to peak plasma level. I suspect it to be shorter.

But normethadone and dinormethadone can have much longer half-lives and it's those metabolites that prevent withdrawal. If a dose lasted more than two days, it's more than likely that you are a poor metabolizer. Because if you have an average, you are obviously going to have people for whom the drug lasts for a longer and shorter time.
 
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