5-MeO-PipT (Third Time) - 8mg + 1mg orally , 3g GHB, 1.2g Piracetam - Vanilla Wonderment

[Pfafffed]

5-MeO-PipT (Third Time) - 8mg + 1mg orally , 3g GHB, 1.2g Piracetam - Vanilla Wonderment

tl;dr - really nice this time. no idea why. might need a higher dose.

Background:
Decades of experience with dozens of psychedelics. No tolerance. Empty stomach and skipped lunch mean I'm feeling cold, while lots of caffeine and piracetam around 6am mean I'm feeling jittery. That's not usually an auspicious start to a trip.

Timeline:
3:30 - Dosed. Chase my dose with some milk and peanut butter.

4:09 - Feels really nice. Less jittery now by far. Contemplating taking more. Still getting a feel for the thing - I'm way ahead in this experience than my friend, who had eaten lunch. My body is feeling warm. I'm pretty clearheaded. No real visual activity. Sensual interest is there based on interesting somatic sensations, but no desire at all.

4:50 - Hungry, surprisingly. I have to work to invite it in to feel any of its character. 1mg booster will probably just extend duration, but just in case I'll try it to see if I can make it a little more pronounced. I wouldn't mind increased duration anyway. Take a little GHB and decide to take my friend to the bedroom to chill and listen to music there. We stay there for a good chunk of the experience.

6:45 - Eat a peanut butter sandwich and decide on a change of scenery.

7:45 - I'm gassy, usually indicating the comedown is well-underway. I'm also very sleepy. That could be the absence of the stimulation from the material or residue of the GHB I took earlier. I got up way early, so either possibility seems possible.

9:00 - My tiredness now feels more natural, less soporific, so I guess it could have been GHB related even though it came late? I could sleep, but decide to go to bed at 10.

10:00 - I sleep easily and restfully

Summary:
Yesterday, inspired by a positive report on the material that came out since I last tried it, I revisited 5-MeO-PiPT. In my notes from my first two 6mg experiences, I thought that it was nice, but bland, possibly because it could have been an underdose.

This time, I took 8mg plus a 1mg booster a fair way into the experience. My preferred 5-MeO-MiPT dose is 6.25mg and my preferred 5-MeO-MET dosage hasn't been determined but I estimate is 15mg.

It was very, very nice, but a bit hard to pin down. It was less enjoyable by every metric that I can think of when compared to 5-MeO-MiPT, but my friend and I both really liked it. I found it to be pretty physically stimulating, but the emotional valence of the experience was so mellow and chill that it parsed as enjoyable instead of anxiogenic like it usually is for me. I was already pretty jazzed from caffeine and piracetam earlier in the day.

It didn't have the same rich, passionate hunger and savory quality that 5-MeO-MiPT has, instead replacing that with a smoothed out, cloudy, dreamy, slightly dissociative quality somewhat akin to a very mild version of DOPr. Honestly, it was pretty vanilla, but I like vanilla.

It also felt pretty optional at this dose. It was very clearheaded and at this dose felt nondescript unless I actively worked to welcome in some of the character of the material. When I did, I liked it quite a bit. I kept wanting more, more, I think because I wanted it to be pushier about its presence, to make its character more forcefully present. I suspect that might be the case at a somewhat higher dose. Maybe 10mg? I might vaporize it to explore higher doses with better immediate feedback for titration, but the side effects were never alarming at this dosage.

It felt a little hot and sweaty during the peak and I had some gas on the comedown. It felt slightly gritty in my nervous system as all isopropyl subbed tryptamines do, but never unpleasant. Surprisingly, I didn't get any of the usual muscle tension at this dose and never took any magnesium. The gas was easy to pass. I have a headache today, but I also missed my morning coffee which could be contributing.

Like 5-MeO-MiPT, it seemed like it might come in two phases. The first part was stimulating and euphoric, with the trippy portion coming in towards the second half. It would be easy to keep chasing the first part of the experience to try to make it stronger when the headier part comes later. It was even less visually interesting at this dosage than 5-MeO-MiPT, although there were some unique and beautiful CEVs at one point late in the trip. Intricate neon violet liquid tendrils danced and squirmed delicately behind my eyelids. The experience this time also felt more rich, full, and complete than my 5-MeO-MiPT experiences typically feel, which has led to me adding in some N,N-MiPT to round them out. I did take some GHB in the middle of this, so that could possibly be a factor.

All in all, it felt pleasant, stimulating, and rather bland for the first phase, evolving into something more satisfyingly but quite inexplicably rich in the second half. Intimacy was really, really great, but there was zero push for it. Once we made a point of exploring it, that was where we put our focus. It was more rewarding than other activities; unlike 5-MeO-MiPT, food and narrative and creative pursuits were neither diminished nor enhanced. Physicality, intimate or otherwise, felt great. Just walking around the living room left my skin and muscles with the same feeling of being refreshed walking through a brisk breeze. I felt very slightly detached throughout while my friend felt much more emotionally connected.


All in all, I thought it was valuable and will likely revisit it, possibly at 10mg.

 

[daturetard]

So how many ml ghb would 3g be? Is it like water, 1g=1ml?

 

[Pfafffed]

So how many ml ghb would 3g be? Is it like water, 1g=1ml?

That depends on how dilute your solution is. That can and does vary.

I neglected to mention that i started at 2.3g, then boosted to 3g. I felt like the booster diminished the experience rather than enhanced it. Only slightly, but it felt little less clear, clean, and bright after.

 

[daturetard]

So for 100% (and whatever water it pulls from the air) would 3ml=3g (ie; very similar molecular weight to water)?

That depends on how dilute your solution is. That can and does vary.

 

[Kaleida]

Thanks for the report, it sounds like a nice and pleasant one. I’m glad to see more info on this material too.

 

[Didgital]

Great report!

 

[Pfafffed]

Today's 10mg trial went great. Still linear dosage-response curve. Ended up boosting it up a bit with vaped EPT. The whole experience lasted just about 4hrs this time, which was surprisingly short!

 

[Pfafffed]

Yesterday's trial was at 15mg orally on an empty stomach. It went well. At that dosage, 5-MeO-PiPT finally began to display some recognizable psychedelic character. Like 5-MeO-MipT, it was bi-phasic for me. The first hour or two was extremely cognitively light, with the psychedelic component coming later.

Notes:
- No tolerance; good mood; well fed and slept.
- Visual clarity increasing was the first sign of onset at about 30min.
- I took 200mg of time release 5-HTP 6 hours earlier to no noticeable effect.
- It resolved my post-viral sequalae from a February infection for close to 24hrs.
- Body felt a little warm during peak. Mild jaw tension. Gassiness on the descent. Head pressure and headache could have been from the vardenafil.
- OEVs were subtle, but present. CEVs were noticeable during peak, but mild. Mostly grey or white, intricate and disorganized like 2C-T-2. Occasionally more DPT-flavored thorn-fractals.
- A medium-strong dose for me, I think.

Timeline:
2:30 Dosed.

3:00 Onset. Everything gained a touch of the pearlescent quality of light shining on a porcelain teacup. Ascent was smooth and easy.

3:30-4:30 Pleasant but quite light. Sex was exceptional, as the propyl "dissociation" from the base physical realm. I could feel myself letting go of some tense, physical grit, some somatic emotional knot of pain and sadness, something I likely carry with me all day every day as part of being an embodied human. I've experienced that with this molecule before, as well as with N,N-EPT - it doesn't make me confront and inhabit my embodied existence, but instead provides a reprieve or escape not unlike a dissociative. Unlike a dissociative, I don't really feel alarmed by this escapism. It doesn't feel unhealthy or delusional. Instead, it's more like a beach read or a breezy cartoon or pop music - it's nice to take a load off for a while without clinging to it like it's the correct state of being. It's more a healthy diversion to let some positivity shine in. EPT is much more Rainbow Bright primary color positivity. This is monochromatic white with a little gray for depth and detail, more a somatic release and less an affective (emotional) one. This disconnect from background somatic discomfort combined with a sense of pleasure and joy all over my skin in response to touch made the erotic lovely, unlike NMDA dissos. I hate the comparison, because propyl subs really are wildly different from classical dissos. They're just the closest reference point, like when people compare 2C-B and MDMA.No change to emotional intimacy or libido. Still, narrowing my mind's temporal aperture to filter out past and future to focus on the present is helps me connect with loved ones.

4:30 I should have eaten earlier. It has barely qualified as psychedelic until now, but as the headiness develops I regret not taking care of my caloric needs. Instead of taking down notes, I put some food on and take some kava kava extract and some nitrous to stave off a deteriorating headspace until I can get some food in me, which works perfectly. My memory of this experience was hard to hold. Like 5-MeO-MiPT, there is an inherent ease that buoys me. Even when I'm tripping hard, I don't feel too imbalanced. Here, I was tripping harder than I realized, but its gentle character made me lose sight of how hard it would be to document later.

As this was intended as an opportunity to spend quality time together, I didn't have the chance to explore the material's qualities in depth by myself much. Enjoyable, but a little hard to pin down on the page. It didn't burst forth with distinct character. At times, it felt like only the "isopropyl" qualities were present: thin, airy, grayscale, gray, energetic, somatic, intellectually vacant. At others, a little detached bliss and a little alien horror from the propyl came through (visuals of glistening thorn-like, hornlike geometric cones accompanied by DMT harlequin vibes.) But overall I would describe it as literal vanilla. Easy, light, beautiful, pleasant - like a white orchid. It has some depth in the background if you really look for it, but depth is not really a quality people note with vanilla. It reminded me in many ways of 4-HO-MALT, which despite having very little to it almost has MORE character with its enjoyably nostalgic trailer park hedonism vibe. This was more of a generic white-robed spirituality vibe.

6:30 - Quite a lot of gassiness, but the end of the experience was a little hard to identify. At some point, the head pressure and headache started to annoy me, so I drank a bit of liquor. That's another sweet dissociative, so the two mixed together and became indistinguishable.

11:30 - Slept easily with considerable ethanolic assistance.

Summary: The dose was fine. It is probably on the medium-high end for my tastes. If I had supplemented with another psychedelic early on, it might have been uncomfortable when the psychedelic phase kicked in. The side effects were quite mild at this dose. I could see taking this dose again, or going a little lower at 13-14mg. I could also see going higher, but I get the impression that this will not push things into more rewarding territory for me personally. Like 5-MeO-MET, I should have pushed the dose to this point before coming to any conclusions. I think it's roughly half as potent as 5-MeO-MiPT - if memory serves, this feels like about 7.5mg of moxy.

 

[iom]

Great report! This one sounds interesting, but I'm always apprehensive about 5-substituted tryptamines after I had a scary time with banisteriopsis caapi + 5 mg of 5-Meo-DMT oral. Then there are all the negative reports on 5-Meo-DiPT or (worse) 5-Meo-AMT. The one that did sound kind of interesting and maybe worth trying was 5-Meo-MiPT, and maybe this one too?

Another interesting point is the late onset of effects, relative to other oral tryptamines. Compare to DiPT which I also thought was very bi-phasic, but with DiPT, the visuals presented in the early phase. I remember remarking on how Shulgin described DiPT as being essentially without effect, except in terms of the auditory component, but in actual experience, it consisted of two phases. The first phase came with a strong tryptamine rush including some nausea and quite a bit of mental disorientation. IIRC for my partner, DiPT at 100 mg may be the only psychedelic that's made her puke, and on that trip, she had intense visuals. All this only lasted for maybe 30-45 minutes though (after a 45 minute onset), and it was as these early effects were winding down that the auditory effects started to ramp up. By 2 hours in the trip was mostly auditory as Shulgin described albeit with a very pleasant mellow empathogenic euphoria.

[...]
- I took 200mg of time release 5-HTP 6 hours earlier to no noticeable effect.
- It resolved my post-viral sequalae from a February infection for close to 24hrs.
[...]

If I may ask, are you attributing the resolution of PASC to the 5-HTP, the 5-Meo-PiPT, or are you not certain either way? I personally have not tried 5-HTP, but I experienced considerable relief from PASC symptoms (3+ years running) which lasted for days or weeks after a single dose of psychedelics.

I'm not terribly impressed by the paper you linked, but I would not be surprised at all if serotonin pathways or more generally tryptophan pathways play a major role in PASC. Indeed, similar metabolomic profiles are observed in many other chronic inflammatory conditions, which makes this paper frustrating because it doesn't get into the details of that research. Generally speaking, tryptophan is metabolized via two major pathways. The first is via kynurenine. The second is via serotonin. A strong bias toward the kynurenine pathways is often observed in conditions of chronic inflammation, but it is hotly debated whether this bias is pathological or instead if it is adaptive and protective against the pathological inflammation. Interestingly, kynurenine is in turn metabolized to either kynurenic acid and quinolic acid, and the balance of those metabolites may also be very consequential from a disease standpoint as they often exert opposing effects such as on glutamate transmision. One theory of major depression is that it may be caused by quinolic acid as a byproduct of chronic inflammation within the body.

Serotonin itself plays an essential role in many physiological processes including wound/damage response, inflammation, and tissue repair and regeneration. It's a shame that the specifics of these roles are not better understood as they are likely fundamental to many areas of medicine, but even now, a great many scientists and doctors think of serotonin as a mood chemical and psychedelics as "tools for psychological healing". I think psychedelics (if used skillfully) are likely capable of heal the flesh as well as the mind, and in fact some of the apparent psychological healing may actually follow from flesh healing. We don't really know and probably won't until this stuff is properly studied.

 

[Pfafffed]

PASC to the 5-HTP, the 5-Meo-PiPT, or are you not certain either way? I personally have not tried 5-HTP, but I experienced considerable relief from PASC symptoms (3+ years running) which lasted for days or weeks after a single dose of psychedelics.

I can't say for sure. 5-HTP helps, that much I can say for sure. But it easily could have been the ethanol. That's both an allosteric modulator and agonist at 5-HT3.

The one that did sound kind of interesting and maybe worth trying was 5-Meo-MiPT, and maybe this one too?

5-MeO-MiPT is lovely stuff. It's also deeply weird. While not the most useful psychedelic or even the most psychedelic psychedelic, I've taken it far more than any other. I also like 5-MeO-MET. 5-MeO-MALT I took an allergy test of and it felt awful, so I never tried it again. 5-MeO-DMT is known to interact negatively with MAO inhibitors, and 5-MeO-aMT sounded just awful.

it consisted of two phases

I vaguely remember N,N-DiPT as being bi-phasic, as well. I remember reading reports urging people not to redose on 5-MeO-MiPT, that doing so would just postpone the second, trippier phase. I can't speak to that, but I do find it to be markedly bi-phasic in just the same way as 5-MeO-PiPT

Serotonin itself plays an essential role in many physiological processes including wound/damage response, inflammation, and tissue repair and regeneration.

Yeah, serotonin is an ancient signaling chemical, and its biosynthetic pathway has been highly conserved from its early applications regulating mitosis and photosynthesis in unicellular organisms. In organisms as complex as us, I imagine picking apart all of its applications would be impossible.