Opioids Codein

[docp20]

Hi mates.
I’m currently stopping codein..
I know that many would laugh on me saying the withdrawal is terrible, but it’s hard for me.
Could you guys, those who have experience in codein and strong opioids, share your thoughts on the difference on the withdrawals? Please
Ps: I know it’s different from a person to another, but I just would appreciate if you could tell your thoughts, cause I can’t imagine anything worse than this, and I know this is “nothing” if compared to other substances.
Thanks guys

 

[daturetard]

Well, codeine withdrawal is morphine withdrawal. Cod just metabolizes anywhere from 5-30% of the substance to morphine, with actually minute opioid effects without the morphine metabolism. The only reason it is 'milder' is because it's a prodrug that you need to take more of to feel the same effects, and there is a ceiling at how much can metabolize. I don't think anybody here will be poking fun at your withdrawals, as a lot of folks come here to get off kratom... if there's anything more specific you need to know I'll try my best.

 

[Aqlis]

Hi mates.
I’m currently stopping codein..
I know that many would laugh on me saying the withdrawal is terrible, but it’s hard for me.
Could you guys, those who have experience in codein and strong opioids, share your thoughts on the difference on the withdrawals? Please
Ps: I know it’s different from a person to another, but I just would appreciate if you could tell your thoughts, cause I can’t imagine anything worse than this, and I know this is “nothing” if compared to other substances.
Thanks guys

for some reason codeine withdrawal for me was pretty miserable but mostly just dragging on for many many days (day 9 I was still sick)
I'd look into taking stuff to mitigate the withdrawal. for example, loperamide (anti-diarrhea med) is useful for not just diarrhea but also insomnia, cold sweats, hot flashes etc.
Clonidine in general is great for opi wd

 

[Señor Moreno]

No one has the right of making fun of someone suffering from addiction, no matter if we are talking about codeine or fentanyl.
As previous poster ^ have said, you are suffering morphine withdrawal, a low dose morph wd. I get you couldn't imagine something worse, but it can get much much worse, take my word for that.
Now let's imagine that this is your first wd and you are taking the max daily dose, a ceilling one, say 400 mg or so.
If we take previous poster's digits, wich I think are accurate, you could be converting your codeine into anywhere from 5% (20mg) to 30% (130mg), most people would be converting 10-15%, (something like 50 mg morph aprox).
Those aren't super high dosages but surely enough to make you suffer for a while.
Morphine physical wd isn't too long, the first week uses to be bad, specially days 2 to 4, but from day five or so on you will be feeling a little better day by day and after ten days or so you should be 80 or 90% ok. Note that that's only the physical part, then it's usual to suffer PAWS, post acute wd symptoms, where you could feel depressed and empty; those paws can linger for a while.

You can ease the physical wd by using what we call comfort meds: Lyrica (pregabalin) or gabapentin work really well in those situations, also loperamide wich is a med that helps you to stop the shits. There is also a bp medicine called clonidine that helps with the goosebumps and hot/cold flashes. You can also use a benzodiazepine like Xanax, diazepam, lorazepam... to help you relax and sleep. But you should use those meds, specially benzos, only during that first week of wd cause you don't want to develope an habit to those things.

Now just keep a thing in mind: if you quit doing codeine or other opiates and then you relapse and do them again, your next wd will be worse, and the next one even worse and so on. If you find this current wd to be hard, you would be surprised how bad this game can become, trust me

Good luck

 

[daturetard]

No one has the right of making fun of someone suffering from addiction, no matter if we are talking about codeine or fentanyl.
As previous poster ^ have said, you are suffering morphine withdrawal, a low dose morph wd. I get you couldn't imagine something worse, but it can get much much worse, take my word for that.
Now let's imagine that this is your first wd and you are taking the max daily dose, a ceilling one, say 400 mg or so.
If we take previous poster's digits, wich I think are accurate, you could be converting your codeine into anywhere from 5% (20mg) to 30% (130mg), most people would be converting 10-15%, (something like 50 mg morph aprox).
Those aren't super high dosages but surely enough to make you suffer for a while.
Morphine physical wd isn't too long, the first week uses to be bad, specially days 2 to 4, but from day five or so on you will be feeling a little better day by day and after ten days or so you should be 80 or 90% ok. Note that that's only the physical part, then it's usual to suffer PAWS, post acute wd symptoms, where you could feel depressed and empty; those paws can linger for a while.

You can ease the physical wd by using what we call comfort meds: Lyrica (pregabalin) or gabapentin work really well in those situations, also loperamide wich is a med that helps you to stop the shits. There is also a bp medicine called clonidine that helps with the goosebumps and hot/cold flashes. You can also use a benzodiazepine like Xanax, diazepam, lorazepam... to help you relax and sleep. But you should use those meds, specially benzos, only during that first week of wd cause you don't want to develope an habit to those things.

Now just keep a thing in mind: if you quit doing codeine or other opiates and then you relapse and do them again, your next wd will be worse, and the next one even worse and so on. If you find this current wd to be hard, you would be surprised how bad this game can become, trust me

Good luck

Second the comfort meds. I'd you need sleep, take clonidine, anxious/rls, gabapentin or lyrica, which can also have a bad wd, dont take these everyday if you can help it. I wouldn't go for benzos especially with an addictive personality and for the risk of switching addictions.

 

[docp20]

Thank you very much, guys
It’s my second wd…
It’s better now
I’m a doctor, so it’s hard to talk to communities… and it helps a lot to talk to people who know what you’re going through
I really can’t imagine anything worse, and I believe in you, brother.
Thank you guys, again.
Wish you all the best too

 

[3DQSAR]

For it's perceived potency, I believe codeine withdrawal to be unexpectedly nasty. I suggest it's because codeine is active in it's own right, just not as a mu agonist within the brain. Gut motility and histamine release are both products of codeine itself, not a metabolite.

I found a sensibly small dose of loperamide and of promethazine do clear up many of the physical symptoms.

I think it's also worth pointing out that super-metabolizers convert far more codeine to morphine than other groups i.e. they can get a very BIG habit from codeine. Also, while the body can only metabolize codeine so fast, if one takes a whopping dose, it seems like the body also runs out of the enzyme responsible for the other metabolic pathways so while it may be true that you only ever get 30-40mg of morphine in the body at once, you do maintain that level.

Until a couple of years ago Codeine Linctus was a [P] medicine in the UK so 600mg of codeine phosphate in solution cost about £5 and morethan once I've been witness to people dependent on opiates turning to this cheap an readily available alternative consuming the entire bottle at once. Now what I find funny is these are people who would otherwise sneer at codeine but if it's the only option, I've yet to see a single one of them not turn to it.

There is an interesting study in the UK which showed that 'weak' opioids were responsible for an unexpectedly large number of fatal overdoses (often when combined with other drugs) but the conclusion was that such medicines posed much more of a risk than expected, often because they display other forms of toxicity or are part of a compound analgesic and the drugs they are compounded with are toxic. I'm old enough to remember dextropropoxythene being discontinued because of it's cardiotoxicity, tramadol because of it's various toxic side-effects and even things like Co-Dydramol because while each pill contained 30mg of dihydrocodeine. it also contained 500mg of paracetamol.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

Why are you going off cold instead of tapering and making the process a lot easier on yourself -?

PS also, without wanting to come across as frivolous, but why on earth have you chosen the lamest least rewarding opiate out there when thanks to your profession you could get your hands on the REAL good stuff?? Xd

 

[3DQSAR]

Why are you going off cold instead of tapering and making the process a lot easier on yourself -?

PS also, without wanting to come across as frivolous, but why on earth have you chosen the lamest least rewarding opiate out there when thanks to your profession you could get your hands on the REAL good stuff?? Xd

It's worth bearing in mind that there is or at least was quite a lot of culture associated with the consumption of codeine in a certain demographic within the US especially. Is it a coincidence that peoples of Sub-Saharan African descent have a much higher likelihood of being super-metabolizers?

For such people codeine appears to produce subjective effects others might associate with more potent opioids.

People like DJ Screw died of codeine overdoses. I don't think the amount consumed would be considered massive and I don't think any other drugs were found in his system.

It's important to remember that YMMV.

I'm almost certain that there were a few notable deaths caused by tramadol and again, the quantities involved were not vast.

 

[Señor Moreno]

Tramadol is infinitely more dangerous than codeine. They both may be weak as opiates, but tramadol serotonine related activity changes everything. Tramadol, when combined with antidepresants becomes a bomb, I have often read about tramadol and effexor combos resulting in fatal outcomes. Appart of that, high doses of tram, over 400 mg and sometimes less, are dangerous on their own as they can cause seizures, wich allways mean bad bussiness.
The dangers of tramadol and codeine are not the same, not at all.

About what you said of subsaharian folks being good metabolizers is indeed a good point, I understand your wondering if cultural codeine use among some demographics- aka black dudes-, could be related to that phenomenom, but I honestly thing of them bratish young rapers (black or not) making a thing out of cough syrups, their stupid "lean" and all that bullshit, being the ones who raised interest upon codeine these last decades.
I have meet black addicts who may metabolize better than us, but despite it, they allways saw codeine in the same way as us: something to be used for fun when kids and then to help light h wds when we grew a little older.
The amount of morphine that a user could get from codeine via metabolization is one thing, but codeine keeps being codeine and its massive histamine release when abused can't be avoided. A black person would get as unbareable itchy and unconfortable as a white one

 

[docp20]

Why are you going off cold instead of tapering and making the process a lot easier on yourself -?

PS also, without wanting to come across as frivolous, but why on earth have you chosen the lamest least rewarding opiate out there when thanks to your profession you could get your hands on the REAL good stuff?? Xd

I tapered off... the thing for me is a lot more psychological...
Bro, that's exactly the reason. I can absolutely get anything, but if a weak opioid it's so "ecstatic" and so difficult (for me), it gives me chills just thinking about a stronger one.
I used to smoke pot, do lsd, mushrooms, ecstasy, MDMA, mostly at parties (only weed on a higher frequency), but damn bro... This sh*t (codein) is on another level...
I'm saying from my experience, so I only know the substances I've used...

 

[emkee_reinvented]

You are absolutely right about Tramadol.
I`m from Brazil, and despite being white, I'm a supermetabolizer.
Supermetabolizers are mostly found in black, normal metabolizers in white, and poor metabolizers in asian, based on genetic variations…
I'm sorry if I referred to some race in a wrong way... As I said, I'm from Brazil and my English isn't that good
I used morphine once, years ago, and it felt EXACTLY the same.

They did that genetic investigation which had remarkable results.
Someone from one place on Earths DNA most compliant with one,
on the direct other side of the globe. Metaphorically.

But it erases all racial differences based on skin color, in a second.
All Kakalawaka [] Nice find wonder who it was, nice job, tomorrow.

 

[3DQSAR]

Tramadol is infinitely more dangerous than codeine. They both may be weak as opiates, but tramadol serotonine related activity changes everything. Tramadol, when combined with antidepresants becomes a bomb, I have often read about tramadol and effexor combos resulting in fatal outcomes. Appart of that, high doses of tram, over 400 mg and sometimes less, are dangerous on their own as they can cause seizures, wich allways mean bad bussiness.
The dangers of tramadol and codeine are not the same, not at all.

I admit to being surprised that Grünenthal failed to undertake 'evergreening;' of it's legal control of tramadol.

The medicine is a mixture of the two trans isomers only one of which is an opioid. It appears that the other isomer is responsible for it's SRI activity.

One one hand it would make it a much more typical opioid and therefore have no perceived clinical advantage over codeine, dihydrocodine or hydrocodone BUT it would still be much cheaper than the alternatives. That the racemate proved to be the more potent analgesic in animal models is not always a good indication that the same will hold true in man.

I have to admit being a little surprised that no RC vendor has undertaken resolution and O-demethylation of tramadol as, if the patent is any guide, it's around an order of magnitude more potent than tramadol. I would not expect them to attempt replacing the tertiary -OH with an -F in spite of that being the MOST potent because the reagents involved are far from friendly. DAST is the most common but they all appear to share the property of being hazardous.

 

[daturetard]

On the tram topic, its a serotonin releasing agent. This is similar to fenfluromine (the reason 'phen-fen' cost 13 billion in damages

 

[3DQSAR]

On the tram topic, its a serotonin releasing agent. This is similar to fenfluromine (the reason 'phen-fen' cost 13 billion in damages

I freely admit I'm not well versed in the case but I was under the impression it was because fenfluramine is a 5HT2b ligand and resulted in heart-valve damage.

I'm pretty sure phentermine alone remained on sale which does somewhat suggest that it was the fenfluramine that was potentially toxic.

Certain European nations had a similar issue with aminorex and with similar harm caused.