I'ld like to hear from anyone who uses an opioid to fight depression.

[paltatomate]

The serotonin theory of depression was only invented to sell drugs, at the expense of your well-being.

that's my opinion, too.
from talking with people i know who take SSRIs all those who have a tendency to believe in things like taking supplements, drinking herbal teas, and stuff like that did say the antidepressants help. most of the more sceptical people said the antidepressants had little, adverse, or no effect on them.

Unfortunately, a dozen years later my depression is rearing it's ugly head again, but I understand it better now. I'm not sure if I'm going to go back on SSRIs again or not.

can it just be a situational thing?
i know i get depressed when i feel i'm stuck in life. like after searching for and not finding a solution to a situation that is causing me to feel bad. and sometimes it's just a small change in perspective or just stopping to think about the feeling and it's source that opens up the way to the solution. like in your case: could your aching knees be triggering something that make you feel depressed? feeling old, fearing to have to give up something you enjoy? so maybe looking for an alternative would help you more than any antidepressant could.

 

[chippermonk]

that's my opinion, too.
from talking with people i know who take SSRIs all those who have a tendency to believe in things like taking supplements, drinking herbal teas, and stuff like that did say the antidepressants help. most of the more sceptical people said the antidepressants had little, adverse, or no effect on them.


can it just be a situational thing?
i know i get depressed when i feel i'm stuck in life. like after searching for and not finding a solution to a situation that is causing me to feel bad. and sometimes it's just a small change in perspective or just stopping to think about the feeling and it's source that opens up the way to the solution. like in your case: could your aching knees be triggering something that make you feel depressed? feeling old, fearing to have to give up something you enjoy? so maybe looking for an alternative would help you more than any antidepressant could.

Yeah, it's situational, laid on top of a general tendency towards depressive thought. I'm definitely thinking about how I will redefine myself if I can't get my knees better. But hiking and backpacking and such has been the central joy of my life since my early 20s. I'm really the most fiendish person for it you probably will ever know. It would be a massive shift to give that up.
But you have to have flexibility to thrive in life so I'm trying to be open to other things. Everything is ephemeral, our health, our lives, our security. And I haven't given up on my knee pain. I still do some hiking and I may get surgery.
I don't really want to go back to the SSRIs. I question what their effect was on me, how good it was. Likewise getting high. I like to do so, it feels good. But it's just a temporary good feeling with repercussions afterwards, so I limit it.
Really, pain is just a part of life, whether it's physical pain or mental pain. Can't be avoided. Same can be said of pleasure, it will pop up for you. Savor it and nurture it when you feel the good present.

 

[Man67]

I appreciate that.
I've been through the whole antidepressant merry-go-round though.
Effexor kept making me extremely sick/nauseated & clomipramine actually put me in the ER with mild to moderate serotonin syndrome (which I was able to abort myself by being knowledgeable enough to take a klonopin as soon as it started). Woke up one night & started projectile vomiting over & over. My hands were shaking on their own. My insides felt like they were on fire. My brain felt really off & confused. All from clomipramine. I vowed after that, to never take any kind of SSRI/SNRI ever again. This was after having tried everything from zoloft to prozac to abilify, etc..

I've also given Welbutrin a shot, but it's total garbage.

I haven't tried amitryptyline though. Maybe it's worth a shot.
I don't think I could do MAOI's either, because I love things like cheese & chocolate, so knowing me, I'd probably accidentally consume these things just out of mere habit, which would put me in danger on MAOI.

But yeah, as far as most antidepressants go, they either just didn't help me or the side effects were so bad that I couldn't even get through the first few weeks in order to really get any relief.

I've had doctors try to push mood stabilizers & antipsychotics on me for depression as well. And most of the drugs in those classes reduce dopamine & cause a mentally-flat & blunted state. Which ultimately just made my anhedonia & depression worse due to lack of feeling anything at all.



I agree. Although I think there are some reasonable adults who could manage their opioids without a bunch of doctor-oversight.

I effectively used tramadol for nearly 10 years to treat my depression. It was my moms tramadol, so there was no doctor supervision (at least on my part). And I did really well. I only ever took up to 400mg of tramadol a day, because I was aware of the seizure risk. I was lucky to have a mom who didn't care for them & would just give them to me every month for 10 years. But of course not everybody is going to be like me, so there would need to be SOME oversight just to make sure people aren't intentionally harming themselves.

And yeah, I'm skeptical of SSRIs/SNRIs working because they've never helped me. Yet I've met a lot of people who say they do help them & who am I to say they're lying or shouldn't use them? If it works for them, that's great! Although from my experience, it's usually the people with just regular, natural depression who end up benefiting the most from SSRIs. People who would have gotten better after awhile anyway. But people like myself who have an actual depression disorder, where it just never ends, seem to be more treatment-resistant, unfortunately.



LOL Yeah buprenorphine is such a damn tease. It tickles those receptors ever so slightly, tricking you into thinking that maximum relief might come, but it never does, no matter how much you take. I think bupe is a useful tool for certain situations, but damn I wish I could use literally any other opioid for maintenance. Especially if it's a full agonist.

Be careful with amitriptyline. It's extremely toxic medication with serious side effects. I'm taking 150 mg of Amitriptyline for the last 9-10 years and it doesn't help my TRD at all. It works a bit as a sleeping aid & pain killer and that's all.

The only reason I'm still taking it is because it's almost impossible to tapper it down. These are my Psychiatrist's words. If you have nothing to lose then try it and stay at the low dose (up to 50mg) if possible. All the best.

 

[DesertHarp]

I've heard of doctors prescribing prescription opiates for depression but it's very seldom and not common. Personally as someone who self medicated themselves for depression and anxiety with opiates for years, I would say they definitely helped but I was unable to get a prescription so it became a problem of getting

I wish I could say I didn't know what you were going through but unfortunately I know exactly how you feel becoming a slave to something so insignificant as a bottle of pills. I started same way trying to self medicate my depression and anxiety. The pills were a warm blanket on a cold night, they fit like a silk glove. Unfortunately I was never prescribed so when the sickness hit I turned to the narcotics. Fast forward, I get clean. Now I'm prescribed methadone which is an opiate and it saved my life, I thought it was helping with my depression and anxiety until I was prescribed an SSRI medication like Prozac. At first you don't think it works because you don't get that instant feeling and relief like an opiate, and they take time to work. But after a while I started noticing my sense of humor was changing I was laughing again, a lot. And it was at things I wouldn't have normally found amusing, I was enjoying new things, I was no longer tired all the time. Both opiates and SSRI meds increase serotonin inhibitors in the brain


I wish I could say I didn't know what you were going through but unfortunately I know exactly how you feel becoming a slave to something so insignificant as a bottle of pills. I started same way trying to self medicate my depression and anxiety. The pills were a warm blanket on a cold night, they fit like a silk glove. Unfortunately I was never prescribed so when the sickness hit I turned to the narcotics. Fast forward, I get clean. Now I'm prescribed methadone which is an opiate and it saved my life, I thought it was helping with my depression and anxiety until I was prescribed an SSRI medication like Prozac. At first you don't think it works because you don't get that instant feeling and relief like an opiate, and they take time to work. But after a while I started noticing my sense of humor was changing I was laughing again, a lot. And it was at things I wouldn't have normally found amusing, I was enjoying new things, I was no longer tired all the time. Both opiates and SSRI increase serotonin inhibitors in the brain but the moment you stop taking an opiates physically sick and emotionally vacancy. Just the thought of being sick makes me anxious and uneasy it's the worst, with them there is always that cloud over your head just waiting for you to forget to take your dose or you lose your prescription or blow through them to fast, then it can start raining on you.

I'm not trying to talk you out of anything after all only YOU knows what's best for you and what you think you need. I'm simply using my personal experience as a way to give some advice I'm not a medical professional I just have been in a very similar situation as you many times. If you think you're opiates are working then take them and try to take them as prescribed because you build a tolerance fast. The meds aren't supposed to make to feel high or euphoric chasing that feeling is what addiction is all about. If you plan on being on pain meds for the rest of your life that's your choice but I think you should also ask about SSRI's you won't feel immediate satisfaction or euphoria but you must take them regularly for at least 2 months before they start working depending on the meds. If you plan on getting off the pain meds ask your doctor about Suboxone it will help you kick the pills ASAP and it will counteract the withdrawal systems like the sweats, chills, cramps, shaking, shitting puking and the worst the restlessness which is the worst in my opinion because you can't sleep. But with this med you can sleep through the withdrawals. You can also take it regularly as harm reduction and if you were to try to use an opiates you will feel nothings thus reducing the urge to get high.

Maybe talk to your doctor about taking them together so if in the future you stop taking one to have the other to fall back on. I myself am tapering off my opiate prescription and I'm at a very low dose but I haven't really felt any negative side effects mentally and id like to believe its because my other meds balancing me out. Even though I do believe the opiates helped with my depression and anxiety, I still have that constant fear of what if something were to happen and I could no longer get it hanging over me, so it's kind of a big relief off my shoulders. I also don't think it was helping with my depression as much as I would have liked to believe. I think it was more of a familiar feeling that comforted me, made me feel less self conscious, more confident and that gave me a false sense of accomplishment.

I can sure relate to much of what you say. In years past, I was put on SSRIs and every other anti-depressant. The only one that helps is amitriptyline, which I take faithfully. I have gotten so tolerant of the hydrocodone that I barely feel the effect of one pill. But it still does me some good. I get it via prescription, and I'm able to make it last the whole month. The only bad thing is the worry I have that, maybe, my doctor will try to take me off it. I'll keep in mind what you said about the Suboxone.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I really like that I hear from Bluelight members who know what I'm talking about. A family member of mine is very critical of me taking any medication. (Meanwhile, she chain-smokes, overeats, and goes through a lot of wine.) It's good to come here for honest discussion with others who understand. I'm glad you have made what sounds like great progress in managing your own depression, without getting sucked into ever escalating opioid dependency. You got in some trouble, but sought help and turned it around. Having experienced some withdrawal in the past, I'm highly motivated to not use up my pills too fast. For me, the extreme restlessness was almost intolerable.

 

[DesertHarp]

I take small doses of oxycodone for pain management - 5mg 3x a day. And yes it has helped my mood and mental status. Mostly because I'm not in pain. I'm much happier and life is better. Yet these newage robot docturds' wearing white coats rarely prescribe them anymore. I guess I've been lucky to get them but worry my docturd' will cut me off as she recently cut me off from my low dose of Klonopins. Dumb beach' .. And where do people go when cut off, as they have no other choice? The fkn streets, where you don't really know what your getting half the time. Not everyone out there is an addict but these docturds' treat us all that way. I'm almost 67 and get eyeballed by the whitecoat medical gangsters like I'm homeless and after heroin and free donuts and good coffee! Lol.

I'm just slightly older, but I've been living with chronic aches and pains, since my late 50s. It's just mild arthritis here and there, but I have little tolerance for discomfort or pain. Hydrocodone gives me great relief. Doctors are running scared now because the irresponsible ones were handing opioids out like candy and brought the Feds down on themselves. Even my dentist told me he has changed his prescribing habits. I had chronically recurring depression way before pain was any kind of issue for me. But adding achiness to it made me feel overburdened and worse discouraged. Hydrocodone has lightened that substantially. I wish we didn't have to live with the anxiety of getting cut off.

 

[marcoman]

I'm just slightly older, but I've been living with chronic aches and pains, since my late 50s. It's just mild arthritis here and there, but I have little tolerance for discomfort or pain. Hydrocodone gives me great relief. Doctors are running scared now because the irresponsible ones were handing opioids out like candy and brought the Feds down on themselves. Even my dentist told me he has changed his prescribing habits. I had chronically recurring depression way before pain was any kind of issue for me. But adding achiness to it made me feel overburdened and worse discouraged. Hydrocodone has lightened that substantially. I wish we didn't have to live with the anxiety of getting cut off.

In nutshell. it fkn sucks ! old age, your body falls apart and there's little help out there. It forces a person to got to the streets and do drastic shit.

Lying in bed every night and worrying about shit, yeah, it sucks - and now for me, it's amplifed they are gonna cut me off my low dose oxys...like they did on my fkn K-pins.

I ain't doing this for the high, benzos don't give me a high, they just slow my brain down so I feel somewhat normal and the little doses of oxy I take curb my pain but I'm really not flying around high as a kite. I've been on the same doses and only take them when I need them. This keeps my tolerance low and I do save up some reserves if SHTF or if I want to barter them out, but honestly I don't have many left over each month.

I'm going to try a few new docs and a some pain management places before I resort to more drastic measures. But I'll probably get nabbed early as some slob-prick doctor will label my med charts as a old junkie who is doctor shopping.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

that's my opinion, too.
from talking with people i know who take SSRIs all those who have a tendency to believe in things like taking supplements, drinking herbal teas, and stuff like that did say the antidepressants help. most of the more sceptical people said the antidepressants had little, adverse, or no effect on them.

I've actually noticed this too. People I know & have known who said SSRIs helped them were generally people who didn't have genuine depression to begin with & were more likely to be ignorant about pharmacology & were more likely to say things like supplements & what not help them (although supplements & teas can be helpful for certain things, but they're incredibly mild & weak).

I've also known people who claimed their SSRIs helped them but were still depressed & displayed major depression behaviors. Saw this in my mom on Lexapro. She needed her lexapro but she still sat on the couch all day & didn't have the energy or zest to do anything else. Which is a classic symptom of depression (dealing with the same shit now). So why she believed it helped her is a total mystery to me.

Be careful with amitriptyline. It's extremely toxic medication with serious side effects. I'm taking 150 mg of Amitriptyline for the last 9-10 years and it doesn't help my TRD at all. It works a bit as a sleeping aid & pain killer and that's all.

The only reason I'm still taking it is because it's almost impossible to tapper it down. These are my Psychiatrist's words. If you have nothing to lose then try it and stay at the low dose (up to 50mg) if possible. All the best.

Thanks for the warning!
I basically don't have anything to lose at this point, but still.
I've had so many adverse & negative experiences with psychiatric drugs, that at this point I'm skeptical of all of them.
None of it is gonna help some one who's use to heroin/opioid euphoria & has experienced the power of other drugs. All psyche meds are just side effects in a bottle to me. None of them really help & they just end up causing me new issues.

The only meds that I'm on these days that help at all are my subs, gabapentin & klonopin. And even those barely do shit.

I've had a bad fibromyalgia flare up the past week or so. My entire body is just sore. I feel like I've been training for the Olympics, except all I've been doing is sitting around watching movies & shit. Every time I have to get up & go do something, I feel like an 80 year old lady & it just hurts to stand up & move at all. Heavy limbs, tight & stiff shoulders/neck/back muscles, sore muscles everywhere. It's miserable. A decent full agonist opioid could make all of this disappear within minutes. And that's the most frustrating part. A lot of these psyche meds can take weeks or months to start working. And a lot of them have really bad side effects like nausea, puking, shaking, insomnia. I don't need to deal with all of that on top of depression & fibromyalgia. Fuck that.

Opioids can take me from being as miserable as I am right now to a happy, social & energetic being. Pretty much enhances my quality of life & makes the time I have left in this world more enjoyable. To criminalize these drugs is a crime in itself. And that just enrages/frustrates me further.

 

[Man67]

I'm sorry to hear about your suffering. I 100% agree with you that ONLY meds that work for depression are the opiates (in moderate doses).

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Yeah, if I have buprenorphine, I very quickly end up snorting it every day a bit, and my doses creep up little by little-it reverts to me being addict and also not being able to be satisfied with "moderate pain, anxiety and depression relief". I WANT MAXIMUM RELIEF, obviously.

I just wanted to re-iterate how true this can be.

When I have a full agonist, I take what I need to feel good/normal for whatever duration that full agonist has & I'm good.
But with buprenorphine, it gives you just a little bit of an effect, which makes you think "hmm, maybe if I take a little more, i'll be good".
So then you end up taking more and more & more, but never getting to a place where you can say "okay I feel good now". So really it's just like being on/addicted to full agonists anyway, except you don't get to feel good at all the whole time. It's so stupid.

Buprenorphine is a sadomasochistic opioid honestly. And since it's still technically a partial agonist, it still keeps you dependent, so then you end up having to take it to make you feel normal, but it never actually makes you feel better or normal, since it's only a shitty partial agonist.

I've been desperately hoping bupe would help my fibromyalgia pain this past week & it's barely touched it at all, no matter how much I take. It truly sucks. The only time buprenorphine can "work" or even be remotely enjoyable is if you have zero tolerance to opioids & aren't dealing with a chronic pain issue. Otherwise it's gotta be one of the worst opioids for pain/fibro/depression issues. Down there with loperamide & kratom.

It's funny too, cause bupe will pin my pupils like no other. I walk around all day with tiny pupils like I'm on some good brown, but I feel completely sober, crappy/dysphoric even. lol It's wild.

Bupe is brain torture, simply put.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I'm sorry to hear about your suffering. I 100% agree with you that ONLY meds that work for depression are the opiates (in moderate doses).

Thanks man! I'll get through it some how.
I've been this way for a long time now. Seems to get worse the older I get though. Thankfully I have a supportive partner & good friends who acknowledge what I have going on & aren't judgemental or arrogant about it.

And yes, after decades of experience with opioids & all kinds of psyche meds, I can confidently say nothing works as good for me as an opioid does. And even the drugs that may have helped slightly, hindered any progress with their shitty side effects (especially the constant nausea & lethargy). So maybe all those SSRIs "helped" a little, but only because they kept me busy feeling like shit in another way instead (which is a problem I didn't have with opioids). It's all pointless for TRD, but great for bringing in business & profit to all the psyche docs & pharma companies.

 

[paltatomate]

I've also known people who claimed their SSRIs helped them but were still depressed & displayed major depression behaviors. Saw this in my mom on Lexapro. She needed her lexapro but she still sat on the couch all day & didn't have the energy or zest to do anything else. Which is a classic symptom of depression (dealing with the same shit now). So why she believed it helped her is a total mystery to me.

this is something i was wondering about, too.
the idea of not being depressed is to feel more positive, motivated and active. not to turn into an emotionless zombie.

 

[kiely]

Of course opioids helped me with depression. They helped me with just about everything.

Because " opioids may be used by patients with chronic pain and depression to compensate for a reduced endogenous opioid response to stressors."

 

[chippermonk]

this is something i was wondering about, too.
the idea of not being depressed is to feel more positive, motivated and active. not to turn into an emotionless zombie.

Prozac never turned me into a zombie, but I did notice that I was less likely to get teary about things. I thought that was actually a negative result because I like feeling my emotions. It's part of who I am, to be sentimental, for good or bad.
I remember driving through the desert shortly after I quit Prozac and was going through withdrawal from it. I was much more in my feels as a result, to an abnormal degree. This corny song came on and I found myself sobbing That wouldn't have happened on Prozac. I savored those tears.
(I can't remember if it was the original version by Red Sovine or this one by Tom Waits)

 

[chippermonk]

What I will say about Prozac is taking it coincided with me making a huge change in my life. I won't bore you with the details, but I was depressed suicidal stuck miserable. Was I in "major" depression, or just situationally depressed? Well, I dunno, but I was deeply entrenched in a fucked state of mind.
Not long after I started taking Prozac, I made a major change which was to get into a relationship after being romantically single for many years. I'm sure get laid with a new love made my mood much better, and talking in therapy helped, too. So, situational? Maybe so, but I had some deep difficulties.. But it felt like the prozac and Wellbutrin maybe helped some, in some way.
Nothing was an instant miracle. That relationship broke up not long after I quit Prozac ( but not for that reason), other hard times came along, great pain and difficulties. But I quickly got into a new relationship that has lasted for a long time now. I still get depressed, think about suicide periodically. But I have more wisdom about it all, I guess. I think I can make do without Prozac again, but I'm glad I took it.
I'm not going to presume to know what anyone else with intractable depression is going through, nor about the many chemical ways of trying to address it. What works? If opiates are working for you, great, truly. I like them myself. But they fuck around with your reward and pleasure centers. There is also the issue of OIH, if you are using them for pain ( I can sympathize, pain triggers anxiety and depression for me) I don't deny anybody else's results, but for me I can see how they can make my problems worse, even taking intermittently like I do.
I can't remember if I mentioned this before, but I'm very intrigued by the idea of low dose tianeptine for depression, like they prescribe in some countries. High doses, it is a strong opiate effect, but lower level it somehow works more subtly, I guess? I've never tried it nor know how to get it, though.

 

[chippermonk]

https://www.npr.org/2024/07/12/nx-s1-4865955/tianeptine-gas-station-heroin-drug

 

[paltatomate]

Prozac never turned me into a zombie, but I did notice that I was less likely to get teary about things. I thought that was actually a negative result because I like feeling my emotions. It's part of who I am, to be sentimental, for good or bad.

i understand the not feeling emotions.
i'm not very sentimental (i like the song, though) and in general not very emotional. but i can produce or enhance emotions within myself pretty easy by just wanting to feel them.
i lost that ability with the ssris i was prescribed. i couldn't feel joy, or anticipation, or anything of what i wanted and could before the antidepressants.

 

[Man67]

Thanks man! I'll get through it some how.
I've been this way for a long time now. Seems to get worse the older I get though. Thankfully I have a supportive partner & good friends who acknowledge what I have going on & aren't judgemental or arrogant about it.

And yes, after decades of experience with opioids & all kinds of psyche meds, I can confidently say nothing works as good for me as an opioid does. And even the drugs that may have helped slightly, hindered any progress with their shitty side effects (especially the constant nausea & lethargy). So maybe all those SSRIs "helped" a little, but only because they kept me busy feeling like shit in another way instead (which is a problem I didn't have with opioids). It's all pointless for TRD, but great for bringing in business & profit to all the psyche docs & pharma companies.

There was a clinical trial (where I live) with slow release generic ketamine. Unfortunately I found too late about that. The final results were excellent and 73% of participants with the TRD reported significant improvements.

It wasn't approved by the government because nobody was making money with the $5 pill. But nasal spray Spravato (esketamine) was approved and it costs $900 per treatment (once a week). IV Ketamine was also approved ($2000 per session). It's more than obvious that this has nothing to do with the health and everything to do with the money. It's a shame.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

There was a clinical trial (where I live) with slow release generic ketamine. Unfortunately I found too late about that. The final results were excellent and 73% of participants with the TRD reported significant improvements.

It wasn't approved by the government because nobody was making money with the $5 pill. But nasal spray Spravato (esketamine) was approved and it costs $900 per treatment (once a week). IV Ketamine was also approved ($2000 per session). It's more than obvious that this has nothing to do with the health and everything to do with the money. It's a shame.

We had the same shit here!

I actually looked into these ketamine treatments near me & of course it's not covered by insurance for one. And then two, each session is like 500 bucks & they want you to do like 5-7 sessions (more money for them). So it's like, okay and if my depression comes back after the 5-7 sessions then that's it? They also want you to come off of any benzos you're on before you do it. So I'd have to give up my klonopin (which is the only thing I have that kills a panic attack in it's tracks) for 5-7 ketamine sessions that may or may not help? Fuck that. It's such bullshit.

So yeah, your depression is just profit to them, which is disgusting.

I've heard of some states like Illinois letting people have take-home ketamine nasal sprays, but I'm not sure how true this is.

I'm sure ketamine does help with TRD but it probably never "cures" it, like how they act like it does. It's probably something you'd need to do long term to keep the depression away. I use to use DXM in this manner, trip a few times a month on DXM (also an NMDA antagonist). And I would notice improvements in my depression, but it was only temporary & would eventually come back. I'd imagine ketamine acts in a similar manner in that respect. Now I'm at a point where my body can't handle DXM at all, but that's another story.

 

[Explorer46]

I have used Tramadol for depression and anxiety, it helps. It has downsides: drowsiness, dosage increases (but far from dramatically), coming off is difficult. It has been used for depression, there are some scientific papers on that subject and clinical trials etc.
Has anyone really been prescribed with Tramadol or any opiates for depression somewhere ?

 

[Explorer46]

I'm sorry to hear about your suffering. I 100% agree with you that ONLY meds that work for depression are the opiates (in moderate doses).

How doss it work long term ? Like, after 10 or 20 years of using ? Dosage, physical problems, side effects ?