Benzos Elipam/Elikem Diaz.

[50shadesofDave]

Hi folks, does any one have experience with the above brand?
Available in both 5mg + 10mg.

If so, does it compare to the dows?

Thank you.

 

[Bleaney]

I've not tried their Diaz, but some of their Clonaz and Etiz that I've had was a lot chalkier, and just seemingly just more cheaply made.

Wedinos tested them as good though, and @steewith2ees also thinks the brand is fine, just that it is produced in less developed countries.

Which may account for the seemingly lower quality, which might make one suspect counterfeit pills, even though that may not be the case.

TL:DR I wouldn't choose this brand as my first choice if I had a choice. But then again if I get sent them again I wouldn't be too concerned, as long as they seemed to look and taste the same as the previous batch which tested OK.

EDIT: I've just seen on their official site that they dont list 1mg Etiz, any strength of clonaz, or 10mg of Diaz, as featuring among the products that they produce.

So either this confirms that any of the above pills are indeed fakes, or that their website is not updated to include any pills they may have started producing more recently. The copyright year on the bottom of their site is 2020, so it could well be that they just haven't updated their website.

(Note to mods, the Elikem website appears to be informational rather than a source for buyers, so I don't think I'm breaking any forum rules by mentioning it.)

 

[50shadesofDave]

Thank you Bleaney, you are thorough.
I am due to re stock next week, so here's my choices.

240 oddly pressed bensedins, but do test as diaz on wedinos. Albeit random dosed imo (Pharaoh, any input)

200 Elikem/Elipam, which show as diaz on wedinos.

200 M Dow diaz, mostly show as diaz on wedinos.

All same price but different vendors.

Also in your experience, how much attention would you pay to serial no's?
Are they meant to be sequential or the same number, ie batch number.

Thanks fella, appreciate your time and thoughts.
Hope you're well mate.

 

[axe battler]

I've not tried their Diaz, but some of their Clonaz and Etiz that I've had was a lot chalkier, and just seemingly just more cheaply made.

Wedinos tested them as good though, and @steewith2ees also thinks the brand is fine, just that it is produced in less developed countries.

Which may account for the seemingly lower quality, which might make one suspect counterfeit pills, even though that may not be the case.

TL:DR I wouldn't choose this brand as my first choice if I had a choice. But then again if I get sent them again I wouldn't be too concerned, as long as they seemed to look and taste the same as the previous batch which tested OK.

EDIT: I've just seen on their official site that they dont list 1mg Etiz, any strength of clonaz, or 10mg of Diaz, as featuring among the products that they produce.

So either this confirms that any of the above pills are indeed fakes, or that their website is not updated to include any pills they may have started producing more recently. The copyright year on the bottom of their site is 2020, so it could well be that they just haven't updated their website.

(Note to mods, the Elikem website appears to be informational rather than a source for buyers, so I don't think I'm breaking any forum rules by mentioning it.)

The etizolam are huge compared to any other I've had. Really chalky and sweet but they do the job. Etizolam stopped working on me. Maybe a stint on clonazepam or diazepam only may be a good idea.

 

[Bleaney]

The etizolam are huge compared to any other I've had. Really chalky and sweet but they do the job. Etizolam stopped working on me. Maybe a stint on clonazepam or diazepam only may be a good idea.

Etiz is meant to be 6-10 more effective for anxiety compared to diaz, at an equivalent dose. I've seen this mentioned several times in studies and wikipedia etc......Subjectively I'm really not sure if it feels like that is the case to such a huge extent. It probably is a bit more effective, but 6-10 times more effective?

And with clonaz it's easy to forget that those 2mg pills are meant to be up to 4 times stronger than most other benzo tablets. I know I fell into that trap, hook, line, and sinker, and am now paying the price, as my tolerance has gone up from just under 1mg etiz/xanax/10mg diaz etc to just under 2mg of clonz. Which could be up to 4mg of etiz/xanax/40mg of diaz.

So if you're not careful to keep your clonaz consumption down, as it's so easy not to, you can kind of end up feeling stuck on it.

I'm not even going to mention the conspiracy theory that went through my head just now about clonaz and the clearnet, lest it gives any clearnet vendors any shady ideas. Although I'm sure they'd already have thought of it, if the whole thing is some kind of conspiracy.

 

[axe battler]

Yeah man those 2mg tabs don't feel like they're as strong as 40mg Diaz, but they may have ruined my tolerance too, as I'll easily take 4mg and feel little in fx. I take minimum 8mg a day plus a few xànax. Think I'll taper with diazepam as the clonazepam isn't doing anything but keep withdrawals away.

 

[Bleaney]

Thank you Bleaney, you are thorough.
I am due to re stock next week, so here's my choices.

240 oddly pressed bensedins, but do test as diaz on wedinos. Albeit random dosed imo (Pharaoh, any input)

200 Elikem/Elipam, which show as diaz on wedinos.

200 M Dow diaz, mostly show as diaz on wedinos.

All same price but different vendors.

Also in your experience, how much attention would you pay to serial no's?
Are they meant to be sequential or the same number, ie batch number.

Thanks fella, appreciate your time and thoughts.
Hope you're well mate.

Thanks!

Yeah I guess benzos are one of my niche interests, I suppose I could put it that way.

However, the serial numbers thing has so far been one thing that I've not paid attention to so far tbh. Although that is an oversight on my part, and I probably should, as I know many other messages I've seen from other benzo users do notice these as part of their overall 'assessment' of any benzo.

I go by overall appearance, taste etc, and most importantly the wedinos tests. Although I'm told that good counterfeits can also fake the correct taste easily enough, so that is concerning to say the least, if I might have been relying on something, that might not always be able to be relied upon.

Other members like @sadasaulna @pharaoh and @steewith2ees seem to know about the serial number situation. Tbh I don't know for sure what the score is, although I'd hazard a guess that every single blister of a genuine pharma produced article should have a unique s/n. And the fakes would be more likely to just have the same s/n on the whole batch. Depends how sophisticated their production facilities are though, I guess.

 

[Bleaney]

Yeah man those 2mg tabs don't feel like they're as strong as 40mg Diaz, but they may have ruined my tolerance too, as I'll easily take 4mg and feel little in fx. I take minimum 8mg a day plus a few xànax. Think I'll taper with diazepam as the clonazepam isn't doing anything but keep withdrawals away.

Yeah those kind of doses are pretty heavy tbh. If there's any way you can try to take reduced dose days, whenever there's a time when you wont need them as much, that can at least help prevent your tolerance getting even higher.

My need is pretty much purely social anxiety, as my general anxiety is relatively normal in comparison, so on days where I can spend alone, I can often skip the bzs until bedtime, where i would not be able to sleep otherwise.

If you have more GAD then it's not going to be that easy to do that.......I know that's stating the obvious.

 

[50shadesofDave]

The thing with the Elipam is that going off google images the 5mg + 10mg look the same, and i'm paranoid that the 'crims' have just printed up 10mg boxes and filled them with 5mg tabs.
I'll probably go for the dow's with a side order of 1 box each of the Elipam 5's + 10's.

Cheers folks.
As always, take care yourselves.

 

[50shadesofDave]

Well i've just recieved my test order of the 10mg Elipam, they're really small, only slightly bigger than msj's.
Look well pressed and packaged, can't take one at the moment as i have to go to work at 1.30pm, so i will add a trip report later.
I had ordered 30 5mg also but the vendor has made an error and sent 30 100mg tramadol, so i've dropped 200mg like you do....doh.
Oh well, i'll order 5mg next time.

I'll post my findings later on.

 

[50shadesofDave]

Well, first test was to drop one in a glass of water, none of that swelling and bulging that you get with bad counterfeit pills, they turned to a small pile of powder at the bottom of the glass with no bobbing around which you see with fakes.

The taste is pretty rank until that diaz taste comes through, it starts like a dull cornflour taste and as it melts the diaz taste comes through, melt as they should but not a particular nice allround ROI.

As i'm trying to stay on a 30mg maintenance dose i feel they are better than the bensedins for dosage, i've munched 3 and feel quite nice really, as opposed to occasionally using a 4th bensedin to stave of the anxiety when the day comes to an end, always felt i was on a tightrope with bensedin.

Overall i would probably buy the Dow's if i am stocking up, but these would be ahead of bensedin, they are msj size, slightly off white but look well pressed and packaged, most probably just cheap binder that gives it the weird initial taste.

Please add your thought's if you ever try them folks.

Thank you.

Edit. They do hit well, i suspect correctly dosed.

 

[sadasaulna]

Just so you know, most MSJ on WEDINOS recently tests as Bromazolam. Massively faked brand.

If they taste rank, possibly those elipam are legit but out of date. Its a common source, since what is supposed to be destroyed ends up being diverted to black market. Binder might have gone a bit sour.

Other members like @sadasaulna @pharaoh and @steewith2ees seem to know about the serial number situation. Tbh I don't know for sure what the score is, although I'd hazard a guess that every single blister of a genuine pharma produced article should have a unique s/n. And the fakes would be more likely to just have the same s/n on the whole batch. Depends how sophisticated their production facilities are though, I guess.

I just checked two genuine (prescribed) separate pairs of blisters of lamotrigine and citalopram and each blister has the same numbers. Specifically the lamotrigine specifies the number as a LOT number. So not every genuine pharma blister has its own unique number stamped and if you think of the speed the blisters must be being packaged from the machines it seems possibly unreasonable to have to advance the stamp number for each separate blister as they whizz past.

 

[sadasaulna]

Etiz is meant to be 6-10 more effective for anxiety compared to diaz, at an equivalent dose. I've seen this mentioned several times in studies and wikipedia etc......Subjectively I'm really not sure if it feels like that is the case to such a huge extent. It probably is a bit more effective, but 6-10 times more effective?

I would have said about 7 subjectively. Not 10, but more than 5! But I haven't taken any for years and had no tolerance.

And with clonaz it's easy to forget that those 2mg pills are meant to be up to 4 times stronger than most other benzo tablets. I know I fell into that trap, hook, line, and sinker, and am now paying the price, as my tolerance has gone up from just under 1mg etiz/xanax/10mg diaz etc to just under 2mg of clonz. Which could be up to 4mg of etiz/xanax/40mg of diaz.

I think you have your charts mixed up slightly. The equiv charts I have seen put alpraz and clonaz at same potency. With 0.5mg of each representing 10mg of diazepam. That said I think clonaz rating is suspect. For epilepsy clonaz is prescribed at up to 8mg/day max which based on its so called 20x potency over diaz would but you at 160mg/diaz equivalent which seems insane if those number were to be believed.

That said, I've always heard clonaz and alpraz have some of the worst withdrawal profiles which is a reason I never got into habitual use of either.

For me Alpraz at 0.5mg always hit way harder than 0.5mg of of clonaz which felt like 5mg of diaz at best, and bear in mind this was when I had very little tolerance and sometimes only hit a benzo 1-2 times a week.

 

[sadasaulna]

Subjectively my experience of potency compared to diaz (with little tolerance) was:

• Etizolam - ~7x
• Alprazolam - >15x
• Clonazepam ~10x
• Lorazepam ~5x

Subjective of course, will vary per person (might depend on how your body metabolizes the drugs?), also half lifes mean the drugs effects on you have wildly different length periods. Tolerance to one drug over another may also effect how you perceive it. Withdrawals from each are likely different.

Bottom line, I don't think you can ever made any concrete equivalency claims.

 

[3DQSAR]

Yeah man those 2mg tabs don't feel like they're as strong as 40mg Diaz, but they may have ruined my tolerance too, as I'll easily take 4mg and feel little in fx. I take minimum 8mg a day plus a few xànax. Think I'll taper with diazepam as the clonazepam isn't doing anything but keep withdrawals away.

FYI if you were wondering why quite a rubbish benzodiazepine (i.e. etizolam) is so common is entirely due to the fact that it's produced in huge quantities in India and in that nation it seems to reside in something of a legal grey area.

The only worse benzo I've sampled is bentazepam. I suspect bentazepam is an example of a 'high affinity, low efficacy' ligand.

I was mystified by the singular lack of subjective effects even after the consumption of an entire strop of Triapona. I find it unlikely to have been a fake or a dud since I obtained Heminevrin (clomethiazole) at the same time and that most certainly WAS active.

 

[Bleaney]

I would have said about 7 subjectively. Not 10, but more than 5! But I haven't taken any for years and had no tolerance.



I think you have your charts mixed up slightly. The equiv charts I have seen put alpraz and clonaz at same potency. With 0.5mg of each representing 10mg of diazepam. That said I think clonaz rating is suspect. For epilepsy clonaz is prescribed at up to 8mg/day max which based on its so called 20x potency over diaz would but you at 160mg/diaz equivalent which seems insane if those number were to be believed.

That said, I've always heard clonaz and alpraz have some of the worst withdrawal profiles which is a reason I never got into habitual use of either.

For me Alpraz at 0.5mg always hit way harder than 0.5mg of of clonaz which felt like 5mg of diaz at best, and bear in mind this was when I had very little tolerance and sometimes only hit a benzo 1-2 times a week.

Yes it is all highly subjective.

Sounds like I had forgotten or mixed up what strength alpraz as meant to be. My experience with xanax has been limited to getting a few bags of bars, off a 'contact', and then losing / deleting the conversation about the dose, so I never knew (or forgot) what it was. And I just ground them all down to a powder, and weighed out what dose of powder (not pure - including fillers and binders etc) worked for me.

I remember my tolerance rising over the course of about 2-3 years from around 15mg to up to 65 - 80 mg (one whole square broken off the bar of 4.)

Those 2 or 3 bags of bars lasted me a very long time, due to resuming on the minimal effective dose after my first taper and abstinnece.

It was inevitably when I stopped taking break days, on the second time round, that my tolerance got hit.

FYI if you were wondering why quite a rubbish benzodiazepine (i.e. etizolam) is so common is entirely due to the fact that it's produced in huge quantities in India and in that nation it seems to reside in something of a legal grey area.

The only worse benzo I've sampled is bentazepam. I suspect bentazepam is an example of a 'high affinity, low efficacy' ligand.

I was mystified by the singular lack of subjective effects even after the consumption of an entire strop of Triapona. I find it unlikely to have been a fake or a dud since I obtained Heminevrin (clomethiazole) at the same time and that most certainly WAS active.

I really dont agree that Etiz is a rubbish benzo. In terms of it's dependence liability and forgiveness when it comes to w/ds it's meant to be one of the best, perhaps the very best, in that situation. Also the 6-10 times greater anxiolysis than diazepam, cant be a bad thing imo.

That said, not all brands are equal, of course. I'm not very keen on the pink Etikems. Aven though Wedinos tested them as OK. But I have seen one bizzare result naming etiz and nicotine (I suspect contamination.) And a couple of times I've not been able to notice ANY effects, even after taking a 2nd tablet. (Although this could also be due to clonaz having potentially raised my tolerance to 4 mg of etiz.)

However the Etilaam brand were excellent. I got many years benefit (and abuse) out of them! The Atizolms were perfectly fine too. In terms of consistency, reliabilty, and strength. I think the batch from the vendor I was using had been poorly stored though or maybe it was too long out of date. As I was ordering off the same vendor for maybe 2 years or so until they ran out, and it was always the same - a faint wet ashtray smell and taste. Not the fresh sweet / medical taste that the Etilaams had. But they worked fine, which of course was teh main thing.

At first after my period of abstinnece I'd be comfortbale on half of 1 mg, or less. Now thanks to Clonaz I cant even feel 1mg. Or maybe these Etikems are inconsistent with some pills having no active ingredient.

 

[3DQSAR]

I certainly agree that etizolam doesn't appear to produce the same sort of dependence as most other benzodiazepines. But I've also noted that it appears to display a ceiling effect.

Long, long ago my boss (at the time) asked me if a sample WAS etizolam by sending me 100mg of the powder. I don't really know why. Sending the GC/MS and NMR would have been the proper way to do it. I had never taken it so I wouldn't know from a 'taste test'.

Anyway, I dabbed some, didn't feel it. Dabbed some more, didn't feel it. Took the entire 100mg and sort of felt a mild anxiolytic action and no more. I then walked down town, did some shopping, went to the Post Office, got some flowers for my wife and came home. I remember what I did.

So I had to state that while the sample did appear to have some activity, I really couldn't confirm what it was. So he sent someone else a sample. Someone who knew etizolam. They said it WAS the correct material.

So maybe it's just me?

 

[Bleaney]

I agree about the ceiling effect, but I think that maybe only applies with the pure powder.

If you'd taken 100 x 1mg Etilaam pills I bet you'd have been out for the count for at least 24 hours. It's a hefty dose.

A former moderator of EADD horrified me by stating that he used to take a bag of the pure powder out with him when drinking and dab at it in unmeasured doses all night! He could have been consuming 100s of mgs. To my surprise he was fine. This sounds like another example of the ceiling effect of pure powders. *

But taken properly, and dissolved in PG, the powder is highly effective at proper / reasonable doses. 100mg per 100 ml etc and then measuring 1 ml doses etc. Worked for me for several years doing that.,

* I think the same thing may apply to pure cannabinoid / spice powders. Dissolved in acetone and sprayed onto plant material they were fiercly strong. But try to circumvent the process by adding the powder neat to a roll up and no dice what so ever.

 

[3DQSAR]

I believe some people have suggested that the full effects of etizolam develops after chronic administration. I'm not entirely certain what their logic is, but they were people who generally only post after much research.

I certainly wouldn't pay for etizolam as when I took it for severe anxiety, it wasn't much good. But I might add that I very rarely take anything not prescribed and even then, it's always something from a pharmacy.

In this day and age, random powders are just a risky option.

 

[axe battler]

Yes it is all highly subjective.

Sounds like I had forgotten or mixed up what strength alpraz as meant to be. My experience with xanax has been limited to getting a few bags of bars, off a 'contact', and then losing / deleting the conversation about the dose, so I never knew (or forgot) what it was. And I just ground them all down to a powder, and weighed out what dose of powder (not pure - including fillers and binders etc) worked for me.

I remember my tolerance rising over the course of about 2-3 years from around 15mg to up to 65 - 80 mg (one whole square broken off the bar of 4.)

Those 2 or 3 bags of bars lasted me a very long time, due to resuming on the minimal effective dose after my first taper and abstinnece.

It was inevitably when I stopped taking break days, on the second time round, that my tolerance got hit.


I really dont agree that Etiz is a rubbish benzo. In terms of it's dependence liability and forgiveness when it comes to w/ds it's meant to be one of the best, perhaps the very best, in that situation. Also the 6-10 times greater anxiolysis than diazepam, cant be a bad thing imo.

That said, not all brands are equal, of course. I'm not very keen on the pink Etikems. Aven though Wedinos tested them as OK. But I have seen one bizzare result naming etiz and nicotine (I suspect contamination.) And a couple of times I've not been able to notice ANY effects, even after taking a 2nd tablet. (Although this could also be due to clonaz having potentially raised my tolerance to 4 mg of etiz.)

However the Etilaam brand were excellent. I got many years benefit (and abuse) out of them! The Atizolms were perfectly fine too. In terms of consistency, reliabilty, and strength. I think the batch from the vendor I was using had been poorly stored though or maybe it was too long out of date. As I was ordering off the same vendor for maybe 2 years or so until they ran out, and it was always the same - a faint wet ashtray smell and taste. Not the fresh sweet / medical taste that the Etilaams had. But they worked fine, which of course was teh main thing.

At first after my period of abstinnece I'd be comfortbale on half of 1 mg, or less. Now thanks to Clonaz I cant even feel 1mg. Or maybe these Etikems are inconsistent with some pills having no active ingredient.

Atizolm were good. I'm getting neurozol-1 which are really sweet tasting and I think the dosesnare inconsistent.