HIgh All, Long time user here.

[emkee_reinvented]

A "drug" being a plant is not an automatic merit, and being a crystal is not a demerit, either. Let's keep in mind there are plants that are very poisonous, everything from Poison Oak to deadly nightshades like Belladonna. Plus there's Jimson weed, White Oleander, Deathcap mushrooms, etc. At the same time, there's nothing wrong with highly pure, crystalline acetyl salicylic acid hydrochloride, for example.


Ephedra contains ephedrine, which is a very effective stimulant, and it grows naturally in the ephedra plant, Ma Huang. So why label Catha edulis "nature's own sloppy stim"? Nature makes more than one stimulant. And so what? Nature also makes poisons, as discussed …


Desoxyn is still a prescription drug in the US, AFAIK, isn't it?

A natural stimulant besides the inferiour Ephedra and other Ephedrine like containing plants.
Or the most crappy form of Caffein spread the world Coffee. Guarana or Mate anyone ?

Just read in US you can also buy fresh Qat [or used to on middle eastern markets]
So its quite long fresh EU is closer by. Hagigat, a Khat extract pill now illegal in Israel.
Contained Cathinone a.o. and was real popular. They still sell fresh Khat smoothy s,
on street corners though. Very popular in Israel i believe. So maybe Khat is more then only Cathinone ?

In that case yes Khat was a nice natural missing addition. When everyone fled from Somalia/ Ethiopia.
And brought along fresh Qat.

We had no fresh Coca leaves here so who knows a quid of that could work to ?
So i ment the non poisinous ones, so even no Amanita Muscaria, as they need careful preperation.
But the effect of it i am very curious about Natures own Alcohol/ GHB/ Benzo alternative.

And then again there is also nothing wrong wit Salicylic Acid extracted from Willow, just not patentable !

Desoxyn is US not EU & not NL. Overhere people got their Methedrine [old skool/ pharmaceutical made] from Belgium.
Like others would get Captagon/ Phenythyline, Preludin/ Phenmetrazine and downers like Methaqualone, Benzos, Tillidine.
From Germany, all still OTC there. Over here not so much.
Here you could steel dr note pads, read that in Broods biography. He did: filled in Meth-Amphetamine and signed.
And went to a Pharmacy. Til a certain point.

So it was prescription allready 70-ties. He came back to get em and the manager gave him a letter.

a. Having a prescription of a no longer prescribable med.
b. So you must have stolen that pad [he had] and this letter has been sent round.
Last time he stole a dr s prescription pad i assume .

But dr were liberal when so called addicted to heroin you could easy get a prescription for Dextro-Moramide.
Later withdrawn from the market as there was a deadly side effect they overlooked. So there patients OD on it.
That med is like Meth-Amphetamine no longer of medical use.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

@BetAlgo saw a documentary of portugal while in Oragon the same thing was a disaster?
Both decrimnalized drugs use/ possesion.

Portugal it worked out the other country, they turning it back making it a crime again.

What s the real situation over there [Portugal], does it really work. NL don t prosecute individual users.
But what Portugal did was more like to deciminalizing at least the users side.
Does it help with harm reduction and such ?

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Cathinone preservation in khat evidence via drying​

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20036789/

The paper that kinda dismanteld the drying degradation.
Never took good or bad dried Khat so i wouldn t know.

Just know as long it is moist its active. And thats at least 3 days.
no clue what transport takes. So wil guess could be longer too.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

@BetAlgo saw a documentary of portugal while in Oragon the same thing was a disaster?
Both decrimnalized drugs use/ possesion.

Portugal it worked out the other country, they turning it back making it a crime again.

What s the real situation over there [Portugal], does it really work. NL don t prosecute individual users.
But what Portugal did was more like to deciminalizing at least the users side.
Does it help with harm reduction and such ?

75% reduction in drug-related deaths. So yeah I'd say it helped massively!

 

[4BetAlgo]

@BetAlgo saw a documentary of portugal while in Oragon the same thing was a disaster?
Both decrimnalized drugs use/ possesion.

Portugal it worked out the other country, they turning it back making it a crime again.

What s the real situation over there [Portugal], does it really work. NL don t prosecute individual users.
But what Portugal did was more like to deciminalizing at least the users side.
Does it help with harm reduction and such ?

@emkee_reinvented

In 1999, Drugs were decriminalized and started to be seen as a disease.
The consume isn't illegal if certain parameters are met, but isn't social accepted.
In some parts you can see smoking their Joint. All the other drugs you look to use them in more restricted environment as possible.
For a long time user can request in any pharmacy a Drug User Kit or replace the needles. ( Ithink is still going)

 

[pixies+]

preperation.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

@emkee_reinvented

In 1999, Drugs were decriminalized and started to be seen as a disease.
The consume isn't illegal if certain parameters are met, but isn't social accepted.
In some parts you can see smoking their Joint. All the other drugs you look to use them in more restricted environment as possible.
For a long time user can request in any pharmacy a Drug User Kit or replace the needles. ( Ithink is still going)

Sound actually just like NL, personal possesion decriminalized. MJ sort of normalized. You can smoke outside.
Just don t in front of a cop or BOA [look-a-like order keeper without gun]

Drugs a disease, thats pretty outdated view, just like here. Thats to bad,
should have at least hoped a step forward in thinking.
Like approaching it as social problem/ phenomenom and illegality vs legal pure stuff.

Its imo for sure not a disease, its not transmittable. Its not physical or mental disorder.
Its a right to put in your body whatever you want afaik. certain drugs are addictive.
Destructive or contraproductive. yeah.

 

[unodelacosa]

Drugs a disease, thats pretty outdated view

Its imo for sure not a disease,

Well in the sense that compulsive drug abuse is a functional disorder, it can loosely be classified that way. Mind you: not all drug use, just compulsive drug abuse.

its not transmittable.

Not required to meet the definition of "disease." That definition is: "a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that has a known cause and a distinctive group of symptoms, signs, or anatomical changes."

Its not physical or mental disorder.

It's a mental disorder according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5)

Its a right to put in your body whatever you want afaik.

Yeah it boils down to individual freedoms and personal autonomy.

certain drugs are addictive.
Destructive or contraproductive. yeah.

The drugs themselves are not destructive. If they're counterproductive, so what? One can just as easily accuse alcohol or tobacco of this as well, yet these are legal drugs… As to "addicting", firstly that word means "spoken for" etymologically (hence why it shares a root with "diction" and "dictionary"), and secondly, caffeine, nicotine, ethanol, and numerous prescription drugs are all habit-forming too, especially if abused. Yet most adults can handle that just fine. We have to stop pretending that the drugs themselves are some kind of bad thing or some force of evil. That's just scapegoating the substances rather than take responsibility for our own actions. Fuck that noise.

 

[unodelacosa]

Just outside the blue but for socialising Khat is the best of those mentioned for me personally so far

Yeah in South Africa fresh Khat is available. Europe has a shot at getting fresh active stuff, too. By the time it hits the U.S. though, it's nearly all degraded to cathine. Idk why they even bothered to outlaw it here…

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Well in the sense that compulsive drug abuse is a functional disorder, it can loosely be classified that way. Mind you: not all drug use, just compulsive drug abuse.


Not required to meet the definition of "disease." That definition is: "a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that has a known cause and a distinctive group of symptoms, signs, or anatomical changes."


It's a mental disorder according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5)


Yeah it boils down to individual freedoms and personal autonomy.


The drugs themselves are not destructive. If they're counterproductive, so what? One can just as easily accuse alcohol or tobacco of this as well, yet these are legal drugs… As to "addicting", firstly that word means "spoken for" etymologically (hence why it shares a root with "diction" and "dictionary"), and secondly, caffeine, nicotine, ethanol, and numerous prescription drugs are all habit-forming too, especially if abused. Yet most adults can handle that just fine. We have to stop pretending that the drugs themselves are some kind of bad thing or some force of evil. That's just scapegoating the substances rather than take responsibility for our own actions. Fuck that noise.

DSM is kinda crap imo. Especially the way its praticed and used by the multitude mental institutions. And excluding Alcohol and rest not my meaning.

Destructive and drugs Alcohol and Tobacco are first that pop up. For myself if my druguse has contraproductive effects i think,
thats my doing and fucked. Sometimes so what means a other person feels fucked.

Indeed lets please give responsable adults the free acces to drugs. For myself buying illegal or pure checked legal would make no difference.
Like the dextro-Amphetamine i get, some use it as drug i didn t. Like you never get a Benzo or opiod because the dr assumes you get addicted. I never got adiicted to those substance. Alcohol the real danger, Tobacco a trap.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Yeah in South Africa fresh Khat is available. Europe has a shot at getting fresh active stuff, too. By the time it hits the U.S. though, it's nearly all degraded to cathine. Idk why they even bothered to outlaw it here…

If you dry it right assumably the cathinone doesn t degrade. never tested it but NCBI did.
Fresh Qat in NL was powerful twigs, can t imagine they degraded. Btw the Somalians or Ethiopians.
Would have said so, it was just as good as back home.

 

[unodelacosa]

If you dry it right assumably the cathinone doesn t degrade

You have to prevent it from drying, actually, and you can't rehydrate it, either. It's difficult and not worth the risk smuggling it into the U.S. still hydrated, I imagine. And of course the Somalians and Ethiopians said it's good stuff. They're the ones who sold it to you, after all, right?