EADD Heroin thread v.XXV -- a quarter centuary of threads if not yet a full decade since the 'drought'...

[TheUltimateFixx]

Heroin is a different drug than alcohol. It is far more pleasant I'm effects, and it's illegal status makes it likely to have adulterants that can kill you.
Different beasts. I know a couple of people who tried it once and didn't get much from it and that was it, but they didn't really get a good smoke as they didn't know what they were doing. I persevered and got hooked. You yourself habve been heavily addicted and ODd many times, you have to admit heroin is a different animal than booze.
I'm not saying he'll definitely get hooked, just that the risk isn't worth the reward. Are you suggesting he tries it? I'm not judging, just warning him that he could get hooked, especially as he seems so keen to try it. Most want to try it again, then again, and naseum, then that's that.

Whether it's 'more pleasant' in its effects depends on whether you take to opiates or not. I certainly found it to be so, but that's because of the way I responded to it. Many people don't feel anything much on it, or just get nauseous, or never experience any euphoric effects and just feel sedated in a way that is unpleasant to them. And yeah the main danger isn't the drug itself but its illegal status, which is one reason that I support legalization.

Any drug is moreish if you happen to enjoy its effects. Factor in either a short duration of the desired effects (like with crack) or the element of physical addiction (like with regular use of heroin), and you have an extra motivation to keep using. There is always that risk.

I'm neutral on whether somebody wants to take heroin. In the interests of harm reduction however I would say that these days you are potentially exposed to fentanyl + analogues and nitazines, which I'd find a greater concern than whether the person might develop an addiction.

 

[dsd]

I have an idea what heroin is like, but have yet to try it personally.. it's the only drug I have NOT tried personally yet. looking forward to it, though, some day.

I bet you'd be massively underwhelmed.

Really good gear very rarely turns up and if does ,it won't be for long. ( finished or bashed. rang my guy up once to rave about the stuff he'd given me. Went next day for a Q and straight away thought ' this feels like all powder when it was rock hard the day before '.
Sure enough him and his partners had mixed the H from top of the line into below average due to greed).

 

[dsd]

I wouldn't exactly say that as a blanket statement. I don't generalise from my own experience or that of other addicts, because that gives a skewed picture of 'this drug is somehow MORE addictive than all other drugs, try it once and you're doomed for life'. As a matter of fact it was precisely this implicit belief which landed ME in addiction, because nowhere did I hear the message that it's even POSSIBLE to use this drug in a non-addictive manner, or that it didn't instantly get you hooked.

Imagine how many more alcoholics we'd have if we told people the same about alcohol -?
'one drink and you're done.'
'it's impossible to use alcohol in moderation.' etc

It, H, is more addictive than pretty much any other street drug, though.

And, yes, it is hard to use in moderation . It's why junkies are junkies. Can't imagine there's many who use but don't have / had a habit.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

Can't imagine there's many who use but don't have / had a habit.

you are probably right, but I think one thing is you don't really hear or see about it when things are going great.

And yea, opioids are very difficult to self-medicate successfully.

 

[Señor Moreno]

Go drink 20+ beers per day for 3-5 days in a row without stopping. Drink beer for breakfast until you sleep. You will experience immediate, significant physical withdrawal after only 72 hours. I'm not talking about a hangover, or hangxiety. Full blown withdrawal, tremors, hallucinations, skincrawling, etc.

Honestly, no healthy person will die after drinking non stop for 3 or 5 days in a row from alcohol wd. Maybe that person would die from a terrible intoxication or something, but not from wd itself.

That said, it's absolutely true that you can get wd symptoms after only two ot three weeks of heavy and permanet round the clock abuse like you say.
During some particulary bad year, I spent that february drinking to oblivion, beer and vodka, non stop from morning to next morning. When I wanted to stop, I found myself notoriously shaking, with alarming high BP and heart rate, hearing weird sounds that just didn't exist... I was legit afraid.
Diazepam fixed it, but it was indeed required

 

[GulpingBatteryLiquid]

lol yeah, the "Withdrawal Insomnia Imaginary Background Music" really is creepy

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

I remember how gulls screeching sounded like fireworks, I could not shake that feeling.

 

[GulpingBatteryLiquid]

Yes, and thinking that a bomb has gone off every time a car door shuts

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

It, H, is more addictive than pretty much any other street drug, though.

And, yes, it is hard to use in moderation . It's why junkies are junkies. Can't imagine there's many who use but don't have / had a habit.

There are more moderate / casual users than you would think. I've met a fair few.

What distinguishes them from compulsive (addicted) users in my limited personal experience is 2 things:
A) They don't see it as the greatest pleasure that life can offer.
B) They don't rely on it to alleviate negative mental states.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

you are probably right, but I think one thing is you don't really hear or see about it when things are going great.

This is precisely IT.
Opiate users only come to the attention of anyone when their use is out of control, and they end up in trouble with the police, in the emergency ward for overdoses, getting into fights with family members or friends about their use, being referred to outreach/therapy programmes etc.

Anyone who just say, routinely shoots up 2-3 times per month as a special treat and never gets into conflict with the law or requires an emergency ambulance, has no social, legal or health trouble resulting from their limited use, is just gonna fly under the radar. And all the hardcore junkies who by necessity tend to only associate with other hardcore junkies, with the exact same troubles and struggles with addiction that THEY themselves have, are gonna think moderate users are creatures of myth because they never encounter any.

Because let me tell you right from the source, moderate opiate users do EVERYTHING to avoid being noticed and known as opiate users because of the massive automatical social stigma. Many of them have very conventionally 'respectable' lives and reputations to protect.
It's also generally seen as a step in the wrong direction for a recreational user to openly associate with junkies. Most don't even directly contact dealers but will have one addict acquaintance (kept at arm's length) to go score for them in return for a cut of the purchase.

 

[chippermonk]

There are more moderate / casual users than you would think. I've met a fair few.

What distinguishes them from compulsive (addicted) users in my limited personal experience is 2 things:
A) They don't see it as the greatest pleasure that life can offer.
B) They don't rely on it to alleviate negative mental states.

I can believe it. I had a friend who like to smoke a cigarette now and again but only when drunk. She also only got drunk on occasion.
There are also people who maybe use a drug just now and again for a long time but then at some point use creeps up into addiction. I have heard of that.
I believe it can be a fine line between casual use and addiction. Many drugs can be like that. Think of all the people who drink without reaching the addiction point. Or start off just doing stims on a weekend occasionally to party. But we know it can increase and get out of hand. I wonder how often people go from overuse and/or addiction, to quitting or using just a little without any big deal?
I also read about the case of heroin in Vietnam. Apparently, many US GIs had heroin habits there but came home and stopped using. They were in a different setting, it wasn't as available, not as socially acceptable as it was among fellow GIs, they weren't in a war (!). I would be curious though about a long-term study of them, if they ever got into it later in life.

 

[Bleaney]

I think Malcolm Gladwell mentioned that about the GIs and their heroin usage when they went home in his excellent book, Outliers. IIRC he said that long term only 5% of them continued using, or went back to using.

Although not in the same league at all, it was vaguely similar my alcohol consumption at uni during term time I guess. I'd be craving alcohol and to go the bar and play winner stays on at pool all night, every night, but once the terms ended I didnt crave or miss the alcohol one bit.

In his autobiographical memoirs with his candid life story of becoming on alcoholic, Jack London brilliantly described the process in his book, John Barleycorn. He detailed how it took him twenty years of dedication and hard drinking to first learn to appreciate the kick from alcohol, and then to desire it, and then to crave it, and how tolerance sets in along the way. We all know the story.

It seems like a genetic lottery as to who will pick up any subtance, whether it's alcohol, heroin, benzos or w/e and whether they will have a predisposition or not. I was definitely wired to instantly appreciate and enjoy benzos, various other gabagenics, and various stimulants, right off the bat. No perseverence required to acquire the taste for those things, it was very much there straight away!

I dabbled with a few grams of heroin some time ago, it didnt do much for me, but as Axe Batter said it's likely that my smoking technique wasnt great, although my source did give me lessons and tips over web cam lol. Mind you I could easily enough catch a buzz smoking mdpv off foil so maybe it wasnt technique. I should have caught some kind of buzz, maybe I just could not 'tune into it'. Same as when you first smoke hash or weed, it's better in company to help you tune in.

Maybe its something similar to Jack London's reasoning that it takes certain people time to learn to appreciate certain kicks, and from then on to begin to crave them.

 

[fairnymph]

Being having real issues trying to score & what I can get is cut quite badly plus the size of the wraps has dropped by a good1/4th.
My usual man has been off for 3 days now, I couldn't score at all yesterday & today I got something but the quality wasn't there but it is the best I can get.

My usual man said the guy above him warned him 3 weeks ago it's hard to get all of a sudden, I have several people I can score off but the one guy I ALWAYS ring first is a very good dealer & always has good quality dark, he turns off his phone if the stuff isn't of good quality & his the one who has been off for 3 days!!!!!

When I was "working" on Friday & was waiting to go cross county I had 20 minutes to kill in Birmingham City Centre it looked like Night of The Living Dead, all the homeless folks & those begging to get a score were all walking around so fast & stopping to talk with the others then shaking their head & walking off, you would hear them sneeze or dry heave like they were going to be sick which I know well, that violent sneezing is only due to one thing & I didn't see a single one of them that wasn't sick, the gear I picked up that day was not great to say the least, you could taste some new cut to the gear which I've never tasted before.

I had 3 people ringing me this morning asking me to help them, they are people who really DON'T usually need to ask others as they have connections to shop so I know things are bad around this part of the UK.

Anyone else having issues?

Everything I’ve been getting online from EU sellers has gotten dramatically WORSE over the summer. There is simply no h to be had in mainland Europe. Been using methadone (also hard to find, & expensive) so I’m not in severe WD when I wake up. I think everything must be cut with nitazenes bc the methadone takes so long to fully stop the WD from what’s sold as ‘heroin’ (also it makes my pupils SO much tinier & even impairs my vision). Fortunately that weird thigh pain from methadone went away.

 

[fairnymph]

well i know a guy who told me gave me this info, because it did happened to him TWICE. he said he bought heroin on the street to be used for smoking so he threw some on foil and heat it for h to melt complete, and noticed the beetle was in colour ORANGE liquid, no black tint/ beetle, just complete orange beetle and he thught ah fuck it id smoke fast since this must be very weak heroin but what he didnt know was there ar nitazenes in it and he smoked all of it and felt nothing, but 5mins later, he collasped and was brought to hospital by 1 of his friend who drove him to the hospital so he was very lucky he is alive! he said the high is not the same as fent or heroin. i asked him, would he take it again? he said most definitely not..

Anything orange is always horrible ime.

 

[blondin]

Everything I’ve been getting online from EU sellers has gotten dramatically WORSE over the summer. There is simply no h to be had in mainland Europe. Been using methadone (also hard to find, & expensive) so I’m not in severe WD when I wake up. I think everything must be cut with nitazenes bc the methadone takes so long to fully stop the WD from what’s sold as ‘heroin’ (also it makes my pupils SO much tinier & even impairs me vision). Fortunately that weird thigh pain from methadone went away.

Not had any issues at all even off shotters - quality not up to standard but still a decent 7/10 Blondins and white excellent shots vary from .15-.2

 

[blondin]

 

[fairnymph]

Trying some NL stuff soon, found some decent but not great German stuff (useable at least, doesn’t seem cut with anything active). Hoping my intercontinental orders will come too, reviews are amazing.

 

[ks1]

Yes all things from NL are...
But als be advised police here in NL now found batches with nitazenes

 

[LoginNotSecure]

Lets not overegg the pudding too much, 20 beers a day for three days in a row would not have me hallucinating

Things start to get rough about a week or so in, and that's after I've probably fucked myself over with kindling multiple times

20 beers a day..? Ok, so that's breakfast sorted. What's for the main?

 

[dsd]

On a societal level, I'd say alcohol is more addictive. This is mainly because of its extreme availability and social acceptance.

I was on heroin for 9 years and then switched to alcohol for 10 years. I would switch back to heroin in a heartbeat... if it were still around. Only fentanyl now in the US.

One reason I'm glad I found H was it got me off being an alcoholic.
More preferable to me , only downside is the cost and my lungs . Although, that's because non pub booze is incredibly cheap.
Although drinking was a lot more sociable than the solitary using that most H users tend to do.