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Theory: Mexican Cartel and Dutch RC Lab Alliance and European Market

Methamphetanonymous

Methamphetanonymous

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The Liberated One
As I've been reading up on trends relating to the insanely accelerated growth of methamphetamine manufacturing and trafficking globally, I noticed an interesting angle I thought may be interesting to consider. Some sources below, happy to offer more I have a folder full of them


The Mexican Cartels have been partnering with research chemical labs in the Netherlands and Germany as well as small low scale pseudoephedrine meth labs in the Czech Republic for two years, and replacing them with consolidated superlabs creating resolved P2P meth. A cheaper product to synthesize than research chemical stimulants, far more potent meaning smaller shipments to smuggle, and much longer lasting with an RoA option similar to the needle for people afraid of the needle. Since late this summer, the Cartel have partnered with Canada to route shipments to Australia, and recently Spain as well as targeting smaller European ports. Organized crime groups in the UK appear to be recieving shipments.

I suspect/fear this partnership is an attempt to replicate the US strategy in forcing a fentanyl and meth market from the supply side. The timing of so many beloved Netherlands research chemical stimulants like 3MMC and 4MMC seemed strange, but now massive meth shipments are being siezed in the UK and Europe where no sizable market exists for it. With the Dutch labs involved, they can just force it and gain an operation which is:

More consolidated into fewer but higher output labs- smaller quantity of drugs needed to smuggle into ports- organized export/import teams- monopoly of another continent- capability to produce enough product to monopolize highly desired markets with multiple options for smuggling routes- infrastructure in place to bring fetty to Europe

Like so:

Step 1. The Dutch bring back beloved and fiendishly addictive research chemicals 3MMC, 4MMC etc and flood the market along with meth. Maybe MDMA too.

Step 2. Consolidate large number of small research chemical labs into small number of insane output industrial scale P2P superlabs. Pull synthetic stimulants and MDMA off European market except small batches and jack the price. Make metric tons of meth cheaply, tank the price

Step 3. Use Cartel/Dutch/German/UK gang members as boots on the ground marketing dealers to push addicted stim users to meth: "cheaper, longer lasting, crystal lattice means always at least 70% unlike dirty amphetamine sulfate"

Step 4. Convert UK network ot dummy grow houses into recrystallization labs. Begin dissolving meth freebase in solvents to smuggle in as liquid which isn't detected by drug dogs, and is more versatile to get in. Meth has an addicted market now, appealing to cost potency and addiction-substitute

Step 5. Use better and established smuggling techniques and united Dutch, Canadian, Czech, Mexican, Spanish, and UK network to corner out the expanding East Asian and Middle Eastern syndicates from establishing a market in Europe

Step 6. United North American/Europe syndicates excess production of resolved P2P meth exported to high street value markets like Japan Australia, and New Zealand

Step 7. Begin attempt to introduce fentanyl





insightcrime.org

Super Labs and Master Chefs: The Changing Face of Europe's Drug Trade

Cocaine processing on European soil, a Mexican-Dutch synthetic drug alliance, and the establishment of super-labs in Europe's cocaine trade.
insightcrime.org insightcrime.org

 
I mean the mocros the various paddy gangs, the bulgarians and the turks already work with ALL south American cartels in various combinations all over europe
 
Jackal said:
I mean the mocros the various paddy gangs, the bulgarians and the turks already work with ALL south American cartels in various combinations all over europe
Click to expand...
Yes there are a lot of gaps I'll come back to the Balkans, right now the piece that I definitely see being moved is 4MMC's sudden rise to being the most popular drug in Europe, coming from the same labs making Mexican P2P meth(which I've noticed anecdotally so grain of salt, more and more reported encounters in the UK)

4MMC is an already known and popular smokable salt stimulant. P2P meth will be like the fentanyl to synthetic cathinones and amphetamines in Europe. The Netherlands would kill production on these club drugs and tries to force a market for cheaper, more easily mass produced meth, sourcing BMK(P2P) from Poland[unconfirmed]. I think this is happening now.

You bring up a huge missing piece for me that I'm researching which is the Europe-South Africa-Middle East connection

The Balkan Route is a huge piece of the puzzle that I'm trying to get some more specifics on

It allows Afghanistan methamphetamine through to Europe, as well as Myanmar and Sri Lanka opium. The math isn't adding up really on who is filling the heroin vacuum in Europe, but I haven't looked to deeply into the route yet.
I have been told they are producing high quality cocaine for the Euro market. I am curious if the growing crack market is freebasing on the user levek, if the Balkans freebase it, or if there's some operation like how opium products are imported to Europe and converted there. Probably not important, but kinda neat?
 
It's a bit early and I'm not completely understanding how the links you've shared all relate to what you've written, but I think what you're suggesting is that mexican cartels could be partnering with European RC labs to manufacture cheap meth on the DL with a mind to flooding the European market with cheap meth and then ultimately fentanyl?

My first question would be why would the cartel want to partner with legitimate labs and the additional scrutiny that would bring when they have the resources to operate out of their own clandestine labs where they have full control of the chain of supply and everybody involved? Similarly, why would an entity operating a legitimate lab in Europe want to partner with illicit meth producers and risk life in prison/death when they already have a sustainable business model operating within the law?

Plans to flood the European market with fentanyl seem belated with the increasing prevalence of nitrazines but I'm not an opioid user so I'm not really up on the current state of things.

Can you elaborate on how 4/3-MMC fit into this? I'm from the UK and 4-MMC has remained popular as a clandestine drug over a decade after it was banned here. It's plenty available in Europe without the need for RC labs to be churning it out.

It was definitely a bit early. I thought you were refering to licenced labs working in cahoots with outside cartels but on rereading I think you're talking about clandestine labs which makes a lot more sense.

That's good coffee... As you were!
 
Last edited:
Methamphetanonymous said:
As I've been reading up on trends relating to the insanely accelerated growth of methamphetamine manufacturing and trafficking globally, I noticed an interesting angle I thought may be interesting to consider. Some sources below, happy to offer more I have a folder full of them


The Mexican Cartels have been partnering with research chemical labs in the Netherlands and Germany as well as small low scale pseudoephedrine meth labs in the Czech Republic for two years, and replacing them with consolidated superlabs creating resolved P2P meth. A cheaper product to synthesize than research chemical stimulants, far more potent meaning smaller shipments to smuggle, and much longer lasting with an RoA option similar to the needle for people afraid of the needle. Since late this summer, the Cartel have partnered with Canada to route shipments to Australia, and recently Spain as well as targeting smaller European ports. Organized crime groups in the UK appear to be recieving shipments.

I suspect/fear this partnership is an attempt to replicate the US strategy in forcing a fentanyl and meth market from the supply side. The timing of so many beloved Netherlands research chemical stimulants like 3MMC and 4MMC seemed strange, but now massive meth shipments are being siezed in the UK and Europe where no sizable market exists for it. With the Dutch labs involved, they can just force it and gain an operation which is:

More consolidated into fewer but higher output labs- smaller quantity of drugs needed to smuggle into ports- organized export/import teams- monopoly of another continent- capability to produce enough product to monopolize highly desired markets with multiple options for smuggling routes- infrastructure in place to bring fetty to Europe

Like so:

Step 1. The Dutch bring back beloved and fiendishly addictive research chemicals 3MMC, 4MMC etc and flood the market along with meth. Maybe MDMA too.

Step 2. Consolidate large number of small research chemical labs into small number of insane output industrial scale P2P superlabs. Pull synthetic stimulants and MDMA off European market except small batches and jack the price. Make metric tons of meth cheaply, tank the price

Step 3. Use Cartel/Dutch/German/UK gang members as boots on the ground marketing dealers to push addicted stim users to meth: "cheaper, longer lasting, crystal lattice means always at least 70% unlike dirty amphetamine sulfate"

Step 4. Convert UK network ot dummy grow houses into recrystallization labs. Begin dissolving meth freebase in solvents to smuggle in as liquid which isn't detected by drug dogs, and is more versatile to get in. Meth has an addicted market now, appealing to cost potency and addiction-substitute

Step 5. Use better and established smuggling techniques and united Dutch, Canadian, Czech, Mexican, Spanish, and UK network to corner out the expanding East Asian and Middle Eastern syndicates from establishing a market in Europe

Step 6. United North American/Europe syndicates excess production of resolved P2P meth exported to high street value markets like Japan Australia, and New Zealand

Step 7. Begin attempt to introduce fentanyl





insightcrime.org

Super Labs and Master Chefs: The Changing Face of Europe's Drug Trade

Cocaine processing on European soil, a Mexican-Dutch synthetic drug alliance, and the establishment of super-labs in Europe's cocaine trade.
insightcrime.org insightcrime.org

Click to expand...
Definitely seems plausible to me.
 
The cartels likely have no interest in this. Precursors and drugs are effectively all legal in Mexico. They have their own labs in Mexico to create precursors, and/or just get them from China. You can literally go to Mexico and buy a 55 gallon drum of acetic anhydride and nobody will ask any questions (but the DEA will certainly put you on a list).

The USA is the only cash cow they will ever need. They don't need new customers. I don't see why they would logically want to go international.

The cartels do not ally with anyone. They do their entire operation "in house", from precursors to final packaging. They don't need anyone else involved, they don't want anyone else involved.

Also, the cartels have never been involved in RC drugs. They only produce 5 drugs. Fentanyl, heroin, cocaine, meth, and weed. That's it. That's all they make.
 
Quasimoto said:
The cartels likely have no interest in this. Precursors and drugs are effectively all legal in Mexico. They have their own labs in Mexico to create precursors, and/or just get them from China. You can literally go to Mexico and buy a 55 gallon drum of acetic anhydride and nobody will ask any questions (but the DEA will certainly put you on a list).

The USA is the only cash cow they will ever need. They don't need new customers. I don't see why they would logically want to go international.

The cartels do not ally with anyone. They do their entire operation "in house", from precursors to final packaging. They don't need anyone else involved, they don't want anyone else involved.
Click to expand...
But this isn't something I'm suggesting, they ARE already operating meth labs, both their own and European labs with BMK resolved/recycled to dextromethamphetamine.

They also are already operating methamphetamine/fentynal polydrug superlabs in Western Canada. This is strategic not only the push supply into high demand West Coast USA market, but to push methamphetamine and very soon fentynal into Australia. Australia's outreach groups for meth like Cracks in the Ice highlight inaccurate estimations of meth users attributed to false self reporting due to stigmatization. They note that a majority of meth users develop a heroin addiction, and that the majority people with a polydrug addiction meth/heroin us IV as their RoA, and overwhelmingly resist treatment of either substance abuse when compared to just heroin addicts. They cite concerns over Afghanistan's heroin manufacturing supply collapsing opening them up to an influx of fentynal from the cartel, which their population is vulnerable to.

Throughout 2024, Australia literally reported that 90% of domestic meth has been exported from North American locations that the Mexican cartel diverts supply from

Australia's meth supply is controlled by the cartel. The reduction in street price per gram occured became the cartel cut out the Golden Triangle region this very year. The Mexican Cartel has already partnered with the countries I listed per law enforcement officials of those countries.

Everything you're saying doesn't make sense has already happened. Take a peek at the links
 
Methamphetanonymous said:
Pull synthetic stimulants and MDMA off European market
Click to expand...
On the demand side it is worth mentioning that we did see an extended global MDMA shortage from around 2008-2012, but rather than European users pivoting towards meth we saw the legal RC market expanding to fill the gap. That's how cathinones became popular in the first place.

The UK RC market has since been blanket banned into oblivion so I don't know how the local market would respond to a similar shortage today but for the rest of Europe I could see things playing out in much the same way again.

I mean, most of our MDMA comes from Europe so whatever fills the gap there would probably fill it here too, but I don't see that being meth.
 
From the two I glossed over, one says the cartels attempted to import meth into EU.

The other says the small Czech labs hired a couple of Mexican and Latin Americans chemists to come teach them how to scale up their operation, but says nothing about them being cartel members. I think it would be speculative to extrapolate that into some Dutch-Mexican drug alliance, which is what LE tends to write. It's actually similar to a scene from Breaking Bad, lol.

I wouldn't doubt there is some level of connection, but I really don't think the cartels are making major moves or partnerships over there. Moving weight, sure.

Methamphetanonymous said:
cartel cut out the Golden Triangle region this very year.
Click to expand...

Competition, maybe. But completely cut them out of AUS market? That I highly doubt. I haven't seen any reports of black tar heroin in AUS, which is the type of heroin the cartels typically make. I have never seen them produce anything other than black tar... and the Aussies would certainly not enjoy black tar over their tasty SE Asian heroin.

Methamphetanonymous said:
They also are already operating methamphetamine/fentynal polydrug superlabs in Western Canada.
Click to expand...

Source?
 
Shinji Ikari said:
It's a bit early and I'm not completely understanding how the links you've shared all relate to what you've written, but I think what you're suggesting is that mexican cartels could be partnering with European RC labs to manufacture cheap meth on the DL with a mind to flooding the European market with cheap meth and then ultimately fentanyl?

My first question would be why would the cartel want to partner with legitimate labs and the additional scrutiny that would bring when they have the resources to operate out of their own clandestine labs where they have full control of the chain of supply and everybody involved? Similarly, why would an entity operating a legitimate lab in Europe want to partner with illicit meth producers and risk life in prison/death when they already have a sustainable business model operating within the law?

Plans to flood the European market with fentanyl seem belated with the increasing prevalence of nitrazines but I'm not an opioid user so I'm not really up on the current state of things.

Can you elaborate on how 4/3-MMC fit into this? I'm from the UK and 4-MMC has remained popular as a clandestine drug over a decade after it was banned here. It's plenty available in Europe without the need for RC labs to be churning it out.
Click to expand...

Quasimoto said:
The cartels likely have no interest in this. Precursors and drugs are effectively all legal in Mexico. They have their own labs in Mexico to create precursors, and/or just get them from China. You can literally go to Mexico and buy a 55 gallon drum of acetic anhydride and nobody will ask any questions (but the DEA will certainly put you on a list).

The USA is the only cash cow they will ever need. They don't need new customers. I don't see why they would logically want to go international.

The cartels do not ally with anyone. They do their entire operation "in house", from precursors to final packaging. They don't need anyone else involved, they don't want anyone else involved.
Click to expand...
But this isn't something I'm suggesting, they ARE already operating meth labs, both their own and European labs with BMK resolved/recycled to dextromethamphetamine.

They also are already operating methamphetamine/fentynal polydrug superlabs in Western Canada. This is strategic not only the push supply into high demand West Coast USA market, but to push methamphetamine and very soon fentynal into Australia. Australia's outreach groups for meth like Cracks in the Ice highlight inaccurate estimations of meth users attributed to false self reporting due to stigmatization. They note that a majority of meth users develop a heroin addiction, and that the majority people with a polydrug addiction meth/heroin us IV as their RoA, and overwhelmingly resist treatment of either substance abuse when compared to just heroin addicts. They cite concerns over Afghanistan's heroin manufacturing supply collapsing opening them up to an influx of fentynal from the cartel, which their population is vulnerable to.

Throughout 2024, Australia literally reported that 90% of domestic meth has been exported from North American locations that the Mexican cartel diverts supply from

Australia's meth supply is controlled by the cartel. The reduction in street price per gram occured became the cartel cut out the Golden Triangle region this very year. The Mexican Cartel has already partnered with the countries I listed per law enforcement officials of those countries.

Everything you're saying doesn't make sense has already happened.
Shinji Ikari said:
It's a bit early and I'm not completely understanding how the links you've shared all relate to what you've written, but I think what you're suggesting is that mexican cartels could be partnering with European RC labs to manufacture cheap meth on the DL with a mind to flooding the European market with cheap meth and then ultimately fentanyl?

My first question would be why would the cartel want to partner with legitimate labs and the additional scrutiny that would bring when they have the resources to operate out of their own clandestine labs where they have full control of the chain of supply and everybody involved? Similarly, why would an entity operating a legitimate lab in Europe want to partner with illicit meth producers and risk life in prison/death when they already have a sustainable business model operating within the law?

Plans to flood the European market with fentanyl seem belated with the increasing prevalence of nitrazines but I'm not an opioid user so I'm not really up on the current state of things.

Can you elaborate on how 4/3-MMC fit into this? I'm from the UK and 4-MMC has remained popular as a clandestine drug over a decade after it was banned here. It's plenty available in Europe without the need for RC labs to be churning it out.

It was definitely a bit early. I thought you were refering to licenced labs working in cahoots with outside cartels but on rereading I think you're talking about clandestine labs which makes a lot more sense.

That's good coffee... As you were!
Click to expand...
Clandestine labs yes

However you promoted me to do a little more researching, and a large part of the 3MMC influx is apparently from India, whereas 4MMC is domestic

My speculation is that 4MMC opens the door to either cutting with methamphetamine, or substitution with methamphetamine entirely as they both fit neatly into chemsex and rave groups. The vast majority of at least England's meth userbase are LGBT rave circles(presumably so in EU). The article describes the arrangement as the European criminal groups simply supply the labs, precursors, and staff and the cartel supplies the chemists to transition from amphetamine sulfate to dextromethamphetamine.

My anecdotal discussion with younger people in the LGBT community in the UK supports a noticeable scarcity of the amphetamine paste, and a not-quiet-mainstream but growing awareness and trying of meth especially in teens-early 20s. None of them really felt it was going to be different than amphetamine sulfate(usually very dilute with cuts or MDMA). Two smoked, three insuffilated. I found it alarming that the ones who insuffilated told me an all too familiar story of a significantly older man either lying initially about what then powder was, or encouraging them to take multiple rails with no serious tolerance with an implication of SA. Fuckin meth, I am worried what delicate tight rope the UK could walk to avoid dehumanizing and stigmatizing campaigns like the ones launched in the US 90s/00s while also quickly expressing that crystal meth won't by short duration like cathinones or mild like cut amphetamine and not really a social animal like MDMA. At least not at a certain point.

I don't feel from what I can tell that Europe is ready for methamphetamine. The UK market doesn't seem very high demand across the board for its population, but this is a different beast that Australia and the USA have yet to figure out and standardize a treatment plan for
 
Shinji Ikari said:
On the demand side it is worth mentioning that we did see an extended global MDMA shortage from around 2008-2012, but rather than European users pivoting towards meth we saw the legal RC market expanding to fill the gap. That's how cathinones became popular in the first place.

The UK RC market has since been blanket banned into oblivion so I don't know how the local market would respond to a similar shortage today but for the rest of Europe I could see things playing out in much the same way again.

I mean, most of our MDMA comes from Europe so whatever fills the gap there would probably fill it here too, but I don't see that being meth.
Click to expand...
That is true, I've kindof wondered why even in the 1970s Europe never had a clandestine meth boom

I presume the Nazi ban on Pervitin in their pharmaceutical labs held through East/West Germany and spared them the epidemic Japan, Australia, and the USA unleashed.

I also am surprised to see crack growing an audience now, and not in the 1980s or 1990s. Europe seems to love its stimulants

2012 was a iffy time for meth production even in the USA. I think the cartels trial run of "lets shove cheap ass meth into the country and see if it grows an audience" worked quite well here. Maybe the difference in culture won't let it take root there
 
Methamphetanonymous said:
This is strategic not only the push supply into high demand West Coast USA market
Click to expand...
The west coast meth comes through tunnels under the border and/or speedboats from Baja California, and/or from tweakers in Bakersfield. There is no shortage, only surplus. If they make meth in Canada, it almost certainly stays and is sold in Canada. The majority of fentanyl is almost certainly imported into Canada, probably not made there in some massive lab.

Methamphetanonymous said:
Everything you're saying doesn't make sense has already happened.
Click to expand...

We seem to be coming from two very different perspectives. I am from the west coast, next to the border, and am very familiar with how the cartels operate. Hay una razon por la que aprendi Espanol...

You are reading LE produced media reports and speculating off that.

Truth is probably somewhere in between, yeah?

Methamphetanonymous said:
Australia's meth supply is controlled by the cartel. The reduction in street price per gram occured became the cartel cut out the Golden Triangle region this very year. The Mexican Cartel has already partnered with the countries I listed per law enforcement officials of those countries.
Click to expand...

I never doubted that. I doubted your claim that they cut out the Golden Triangle heroin supply to AUS...
 
Last edited:
Methamphetanonymous said:
However you promoted me to do a little more researching, and a large part of the 3MMC influx is apparently from India
Click to expand...
Interesting. My usual ketamine vendor started stocking 3-MMC a couple of months ago so that makes sense.
Methamphetanonymous said:
My anecdotal discussion with younger people in the LGBT community in the UK supports a noticeable scarcity of the amphetamine paste,
Click to expand...
I've heard speed quality is terrible lately. No idea if this extends to DNM sources too. I have an amphetamine script so I've never had any incentive to order street speed myself.
Methamphetanonymous said:
My speculation is that 4MMC opens the door to either cutting with methamphetamine, or substitution with methamphetamine entirely as they both fit neatly into chemsex and rave groups
Click to expand...
For now at least 4-MMC remains readily available and I think people would notice the difference in duration if nothing else were meth being substituted.

It'll be worth keeping an eye on WEDINOS and things like Bristol Drug Project to see if those trends change.

Quasimoto is right about the sources you're using unfortunately. Mainstream media outlets tend to just write whatever when drugs are involved. The Guardian is better than it used to be but still has a long history of citing unreliable sources (law enforcement included) and taking things out of context.
 
Quasimoto said:
From the two I glossed over, one says the cartels attempted to import meth into EU.

The other says the small Czech labs hired a couple of Mexican and Latin Americans chemists to come teach them how to scale up their operation, but says nothing about them being cartel members. I think it would be speculative to extrapolate that into some Dutch-Mexican drug alliance, which is what LE tends to write. It's actually similar to a scene from Breaking Bad, lol.

I wouldn't doubt there is some level of connection, but I really don't think the cartels are making major moves or partnerships over there. Moving weight, sure.



Competition, maybe. But completely cut them out of AUS market? That I highly doubt. I haven't seen any reports of black tar heroin in AUS, which is the type of heroin the cartels typically make. I have never seen them produce anything other than black tar... and the Aussies would certainly not enjoy black tar over their tasty SE Asian heroin.



Source?
Click to expand...
I did either exaggerate or misremember the percentage, but this article outlines a trend that I do believe indicates Mexico offering cheaper dope, and the previous linked articles about the Golden Triangle explain why they are stuck pricing their meth as high as it's been in recent years.

"Product from Mexico, the United States and Canada now makes up at least 70% of the meth found in Australia, police have estimated. Meanwhile, Southeast Asian meth fell to less than 15% of seizures of the drug, a highly addictive and potent stimulant"



The Mexican labs in SW Canada is hot off the press, I saw it as I was searching for additional sources in this discussion just an hour ago

"Last year, Canadian organized crime groups independently produced fentanyl operation grew and began exporting to Oz

The prospect of a fentanyl glut in Canada was raised in the briefing note presented to Health Canada's deputy minister.

"It is widely believed that excess product is being exported to lucrative international markets," the note reads.

In 2022, Australian border officials seized 11 kilograms of fentanyl believed to have originated in Canada. Since the start of 2021, U.S. border officials have seized roughly 25 kilograms of fentanyl coming in from the northern border — a relatively small amount compared to seizures on the southern U.S. border."


www.google.com

Meth bust at US-Canada border one of largest in Canadian history

%%excerpt%% Canadian authorities recently seized $51 million worth of methamphetamine from a tractor-trailer heading for Winnipeg.
www.google.com www.google.com



www.theglobeandmail.com

Organized crime, including Mexican cartels, smuggling migrants to Canada

Immigration Minister Marc Miller says that the government is looking at measures to ‘tighten the screws’ on steeply rising migration, including whether to re-impose visas to visitors from Mexico
www.theglobeandmail.com www.theglobeandmail.com


These are weaker sources on Canada's organized crime rings and the Mexican cartel's relationship

www.thestar.com

Rosie DiManno: The insidious grip of Mexican drug cartels has a chokehold on Canada

Joaquín Ovidio Guzmán, son of “El Chapo” and known as “El Ratón,” was arrested in an operation that involved 3,500 army and National Guard troops and 200 special forces.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com

insightcrime.org

How Mexican Cartels Settled in Canada

A number of Mexican cartels are moving north, embedding in Canada's underworld, where they are displacing the traditional mafias.
insightcrime.org insightcrime.org
 
I
Methamphetanonymous said:
As I've been reading up on trends relating to the insanely accelerated growth of methamphetamine manufacturing and trafficking globally, I noticed an interesting angle I thought may be interesting to consider. Some sources below, happy to offer more I have a folder full of them


The Mexican Cartels have been partnering with research chemical labs in the Netherlands and Germany as well as small low scale pseudoephedrine meth labs in the Czech Republic for two years, and replacing them with consolidated superlabs creating resolved P2P meth. A cheaper product to synthesize than research chemical stimulants, far more potent meaning smaller shipments to smuggle, and much longer lasting with an RoA option similar to the needle for people afraid of the needle. Since late this summer, the Cartel have partnered with Canada to route shipments to Australia, and recently Spain as well as targeting smaller European ports. Organized crime groups in the UK appear to be recieving shipments.

I suspect/fear this partnership is an attempt to replicate the US strategy in forcing a fentanyl and meth market from the supply side. The timing of so many beloved Netherlands research chemical stimulants like 3MMC and 4MMC seemed strange, but now massive meth shipments are being siezed in the UK and Europe where no sizable market exists for it. With the Dutch labs involved, they can just force it and gain an operation which is:

More consolidated into fewer but higher output labs- smaller quantity of drugs needed to smuggle into ports- organized export/import teams- monopoly of another continent- capability to produce enough product to monopolize highly desired markets with multiple options for smuggling routes- infrastructure in place to bring fetty to Europe

Like so:

Step 1. The Dutch bring back beloved and fiendishly addictive research chemicals 3MMC, 4MMC etc and flood the market along with meth. Maybe MDMA too.

Step 2. Consolidate large number of small research chemical labs into small number of insane output industrial scale P2P superlabs. Pull synthetic stimulants and MDMA off European market except small batches and jack the price. Make metric tons of meth cheaply, tank the price

Step 3. Use Cartel/Dutch/German/UK gang members as boots on the ground marketing dealers to push addicted stim users to meth: "cheaper, longer lasting, crystal lattice means always at least 70% unlike dirty amphetamine sulfate"

Step 4. Convert UK network ot dummy grow houses into recrystallization labs. Begin dissolving meth freebase in solvents to smuggle in as liquid which isn't detected by drug dogs, and is more versatile to get in. Meth has an addicted market now, appealing to cost potency and addiction-substitute

Step 5. Use better and established smuggling techniques and united Dutch, Canadian, Czech, Mexican, Spanish, and UK network to corner out the expanding East Asian and Middle Eastern syndicates from establishing a market in Europe

Step 6. United North American/Europe syndicates excess production of resolved P2P meth exported to high street value markets like Japan Australia, and New Zealand

Step 7. Begin attempt to introduce fentanyl





insightcrime.org

Super Labs and Master Chefs: The Changing Face of Europe's Drug Trade

Cocaine processing on European soil, a Mexican-Dutch synthetic drug alliance, and the establishment of super-labs in Europe's cocaine trade.
insightcrime.org insightcrime.org

Click to expand...
Excellent post.

I think that it makes perfect sense for the dutch RC producers, chinese chemical suppliers, and mexican cartels, to all collaborate on production. They're all in the same market and they occupy complementary positions within it.

The cartels have long controlled the flow of therapeutic 'bad drugs/street drugs' - coke/dope/meth/weed.

The chinese have long controlled the production of precursors and have large scale industrial production capacity. They make a whole lot of things, some of them being drugs themselves, others being solvents or precursors used in the process. The Dutch provide access to a haute couture drug market, via the smart shop model, which has very hazy borders into club culture and drug nerd worlds. This then extropolates outward further still into online enthusiast communities via telegram/reddit/discord and beyond.

The modern narcotics trade is much less Pablo Escobar and Tony Montana, and much more Gus Fring/Walter White/Jesse - bespoke production that is just as likely to have an AK-47 as they are to have a PhD in Analytical Chemistry from an American University.
 
Quasimoto said:
The west coast meth comes through tunnels under the border and/or speedboats from Baja California, and/or from tweakers in Bakersfield. There is no shortage, only surplus. If they make meth in Canada, it almost certainly stays and is sold in Canada. The majority of fentanyl is almost certainly imported into Canada, probably not made there in some massive lab.



We seem to be coming from two very different perspectives. I am from the west coast, next to the border, and am very familiar with how the cartels operate. Hay una razon por la que aprendi Espanol...

You are reading LE produced media reports and speculating off that.

Truth is probably somewhere in between, yeah?



I never doubted that. I doubted your claim that they cut out the Golden Triangle heroin supply to AUS...
Click to expand...
Hey fellas, I'm interested in discussing what could be happening that's all. Sorry, I did not mean to sound short, I'm autistic and my tone can come off a bit blunt if that's the issue

You wanted my sources, so I am offering them. I don't particularly feel the MSM is gospel either, but these are the articles I've been reading to support my current theory



The truth is somewhere in between, or we may not know! That's the fascinating thing about watching these global movements in real time

I will say at the very least, there is a Mexico-Canada-Australia path which is very active this year. If you simply search Australia meth seizures- you will find unique instances of Canadian shipments with cartel P2P resolved d-meth being seized. A lot of it, that I don't doubt

Canada organized crime gangs are producing meth and fentanyl for export to Australia- both ends of the loop are there I believe. I have yet to find that the cartel is directly operating those labs, but if I do come across that article again I'll throw it up here

I haven't yet gotten to a few more links in the chain; the Triangle has shifted to sending meth and Yaba to South Africa and other African nations

One moment, I will link download able United Nations reports, which support this trafficking network
 
Methamphetanonymous said:
Hey fellas, I'm interested in discussing what could be happening that's all. Sorry, I did not mean to sound short, I'm autistic and my tone can come off a bit blunt if that's the issue
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Not in the in the slightest it's a really interesting theory to discuss and going through the sources is just a part of that discussion.

Most of my degree revolved around sifting through press reporting on drug trends and picking them apart so I'm naturally skeptical when it comes to this kind of thing.

I'm never 100% how I'm coming across too so don't worry about it I didn't think you were being short and if you ever think I am I'm probably not either. Three cheers for neurodiversity!
 
First, this United Nations Global Trafficking report is extremely interesting and fairly new! It has an image of a busted Candian fentanyl/methamphetamine super lab (no mentioned of Mexican cartel involved in production)



(Older) Opioid Trafficking Routes Report


United Nations Drug Seizures Data supports most of this

dp-drug-seizures | dataUNODC

dataunodc.un.org dataunodc.un.org

Beautiful beautiful European Union detailed report on Cartel's relationship with various nations criminal networks particularly the Dutch. Full breakdown of methamphetamine production in EU

Europe’s emergence as a globally important producer of methamphetamine | www.euda.europa.eu

www.euda.europa.eu www.euda.europa.eu

European Union Report on trafficking trends, routes, technology strategy

EU Drug Market: Drivers and facilitators — Globalisation | www.euda.europa.eu

This resource is part of
www.euda.europa.eu www.euda.europa.eu
 
Shinji Ikari said:
Not in the in the slightest it's a really interesting theory to discuss and going through the sources is just a part of that discussion.

Most of my degree revolved around sifting through press reporting on drug trends and picking them apart so I'm naturally skeptical when it comes to this kind of thing.

I'm never 100% how I'm coming across too so don't worry about it I didn't think you were being short and if you ever think I am I'm probably not either. Three cheers for neurodiversity!
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Neat! That's awesome, I sortof started off looking at methamphetamine's explosion in the US, and found myself fascinated by all of this global movement around specifically that drug

Then the alarming polydrug addiction cycle it seems to be budding not just in the US but Australia too has got me a little curious how this will play out in Europe. Ideally it'll fall flat, I don't feel very fond of my few months using it. On the positive end It's made me feel a lot more deeply for the people who are using it, how they're isolated by stigma, and if that has anything to do with the notion that meth addicts don't want help, or that it's so severally addicted it's near impossible to break free

I'm hoping getting some bigger picture information out there may be useful to someone- or maybe give me an idea of how to help outside my community irl
 
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