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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Easier to taper off of ER or IR opiates?

B

BWG707

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 31, 2012
Messages
105
Title pretty much sums it up. Is it easier to taper off of ER- 15mg MS Contin or IR- 10/325 Norco? Or possibly use both to taper? Any feedback is very much appreciated. Current dosage is usually 2 to 2.5 10/325 Norcos per day for over a year.
 
Hey @BWG707 :) Damn, you've been here at BL a long-ass time. A similar period of time to yours truly, the 33-year old geezer known as Keif' Richards to the world and Sir Biggis McDikkis to family and close friends. I also have a drag queen persona, Quief Richards. Quief's specialty is the reinterpretation of Celine Dion's early catalog through the lens of Norwegian Black Metal Quief's work has been hailed by critics as "a cosmic abomination" and "What Enya would sound like if she were in psychosis from a chronic Methamphetamine addiction while two sick cats are having rough sex barely within earshot".

To get serious, I would not say one is easier than the other. I feel that some people prefer a short, intense withdrawal, while others prefer a milder but longer withdrawal. People often use the phrase "ripping the bandaid off quick" in regard to withdrawal, though I don't feel this is an accurate way of looking at it. Once a bandaid is off, it's off. There is no danger of the bandaid spontaneously reapplying itself. I say this to a lot of people regarding the quick, brazen attempts at withdrawal: you can have amazing intentions yet still be setting yourself up for failure.

My opinion is that a longer, milder withdrawal is almost always preferable. I believe it's easier and ultimately leads to a better chance of success for most people.

Your usage is ~25mg Hydrocodone per day. You're not exactly an intravenous Fentanyl addict ;) This will work in your favor. Everything is relative though and the process is never easy for anyone, however, I feel conficdent saying that your case is very hopeful, possible and I dare say probable. You are approaching this issue at a relatively low dosage which tells me you are a fairly responsible person. If you make a plan and stick to it, this can all be accomplished.

If you want help figuring out the taper, just let me know here and we will figure it out. For right now though, you have my answer to your initial question.
 
Keif' Richards said:
I also have a drag queen persona, Quief Richards. Quief's specialty is the reinterpretation of Celine Dion's early catalog through the lens of Norwegian Black Metal Quief's work has been hailed by critics as "a cosmic abomination" and "What Enya would sound like if she were in psychosis from a chronic Methamphetamine addiction while two sick cats are having rough sex barely within earshot".
Click to expand...

You need to quit drugs, Keif, seriously.
Just say NO



( to the OP: I am sorry, I don't know about hydro as it doesn't exist in most euro countries, but ER formulations or long lasting opiates are easier to taper but, when it comes to detox, IR wds are allways shorter. Maybe you could taper the MS to a minimum and then jump from a small IR hydrocodone dosage?)
 
Keif' Richards said:
Hey @BWG707 :) Damn, you've been here at BL a long-ass time. A similar period of time to yours truly, the 33-year old geezer known as Keif' Richards to the world and Sir Biggis McDikkis to family and close friends. I also have a drag queen persona, Quief Richards. Quief's specialty is the reinterpretation of Celine Dion's early catalog through the lens of Norwegian Black Metal Quief's work has been hailed by critics as "a cosmic abomination" and "What Enya would sound like if she were in psychosis from a chronic Methamphetamine addiction while two sick cats are having rough sex barely within earshot".

To get serious, I would not say one is easier than the other. I feel that some people prefer a short, intense withdrawal, while others prefer a milder but longer withdrawal. People often use the phrase "ripping the bandaid off quick" in regard to withdrawal, though I don't feel this is an accurate way of looking at it. Once a bandaid is off, it's off. There is no danger of the bandaid spontaneously reapplying itself. I say this to a lot of people regarding the quick, brazen attempts at withdrawal: you can have amazing intentions yet still be setting yourself up for failure.

My opinion is that a longer, milder withdrawal is almost always preferable. I believe it's easier and ultimately leads to a better chance of success for most people.

Your usage is ~25mg Hydrocodone per day. You're not exactly an intravenous Fentanyl addict ;) This will work in your favor. Everything is relative though and the process is never easy for anyone, however, I feel conficdent saying that your case is very hopeful, possible and I dare say probable. You are approaching this issue at a relatively low dosage which tells me you are a fairly responsible person. If you make a plan and stick to it, this can all be accomplished.

If you want help figuring out the taper, just let me know here and we will figure it out. For right now though, you have my answer to your initial question.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback. I have tapered before. I tapered off methadone pills and toward the end I used hydrocodone in small dosages slowly tapering off of them. It worked well and the discomfort was relatively mild; although it did take a long time. To be clear I’m not taking any MS Contin now I just have a decent supply hence why i was wondering if they might help in any way to make my taper as mild as possibly. And yes I’ve been around Bluelight for a while. I don’t post much anymore but still visit regularly. If I see any posts that I think I can add anything of value to I’ll post but there are many members here that have much more expertise and experience than myself. Thanks again for your reply, if you have anything else to add please do.
 
Hey @BWG707 :)

I think there is definitely an appropriate time and place for both long-acting and short-acting drugs. For instance, I take Lisdexamfetamine (Vyvanse) and because of the formulation, I really only have the option to take 12-14 hours' worth of Amphetamine. Today is my day off from work. I really only wanted to take a single dose of 4-6 hours, do my laundry, clean my room and then relax. I don't really have that option, which is kind of a drag.

For you with your tapering, I can see how, toward the end of a long-acting taper (Methadone) it seems easier to use short-acting Opioids (Hydrocodone) to manage the last of the symptoms. The short-acting drugs provide you with a little more freedom in how you medicate. I think the process you have described here makes sense if you can remain disciplined and not "reach for one more" to top yourself off.
 
Tapering down ER tramadol was much more "comfortable" than tapering IR. Other ones...yes, quitting with ER formulation is better probably.
 
i have found that tapering IR oxycodone is easier for me than the OP oxycodones -- the er means i have constant plasma levels -- especially as the dose gets low, time without opioids in the body is important. Im tapering oxycodone at the moment -- i get OPs, extract them in coca-cola so i have nice IR shots. i can chop them down with a razor and weigh with a milligram scale, so just doing a bit at a time.
 
@BWG707 Hows the taper going?
I am in the same boat as you , just for a Much longer time [10+ yrs of Norco]
I have been off them for no longer than 2 weeks, then over do it and go back, due to pain, and emotional stress sick family members. My addict brain tells me that a pill will help my moms situation :confused:. Opiates really are a very difficult drug, for me to handle. I have been sober for over 12 years, which is my DOC, but maybe Norco now is my DOC??
I need to really follow a taper!!!
I do not take more than 20-30mgs a day
 
Iceman1216 said:
@BWG707 Hows the taper going?
I am in the same boat as you , just for a Much longer time [10+ yrs of Norco]
I have been off them for no longer than 2 weeks, then over do it and go back, due to pain, and emotional stress sick family members. My addict brain tells me that a pill will help my moms situation :confused:. Opiates really are a very difficult drug, for me to handle. I have been sober for over 12 years, which is my DOC, but maybe Norco now is my DOC??
I need to really follow a taper!!!
I do not take more than 20-30mgs a day
Click to expand...

I've known you for a long time buddy. I feel you have a really hard time giving yourself credit for what you do right. There is so much in what you've said here. This has been going on for years. I understand there has been fluctuation in your dosage, though you never take it to the extreme. In my opinion, these fluctuations all happen within the realm of acceptable use. You have conditions and a history that anybody could say justifies the use of pain medication.

People can use these drugs chronically without them ruining their lives. Like anything else, the problems come to us when we mess with the delicate balance of our lives. Opioids are potent, powerful and difficult for anyone to handle. It's easy for people to make a small mistake and for that to spiral into a serious issue.

You work hard to maintain the balance in your life. You have had other issues with our health and wellbeing that have likewise harmed that balance. You could just as easily say being in pain would negatively effect the balance of your life.

You do your best to exist with the hand that you have been dealt. From what I know of you, you try your best to be the best person you can be despite all that you have had to deal with. It makes me sad to think that despite all of this striving, you still feel you have not done enough for yourself or the people in your life you care about.

Yes, continue to be mindful of how you feel, how these drugs are impacting your life; never stop that, but don't beat yourself up over it. You are trying and that is more than many of us can say. 30mg of Hydrocodone a day is no reason to say you haven't lived life to the fullest.
 
Keif' Richards said:
I've known you for a long time buddy. I feel you have a really hard time giving yourself credit for what you do right. There is so much in what you've said here. This has been going on for years. I understand there has been fluctuation in your dosage, though you never take it to the extreme. In my opinion, these fluctuations all happen within the realm of acceptable use. You have conditions and a history that anybody could say justifies the use of pain medication.

People can use these drugs chronically without them ruining their lives. Like anything else, the problems come to us when we mess with the delicate balance of our lives. Opioids are potent, powerful and difficult for anyone to handle. It's easy for people to make a small mistake and for that to spiral into a serious issue.

You work hard to maintain the balance in your life. You have had other issues with our health and wellbeing that have likewise harmed that balance. You could just as easily say being in pain would negatively effect the balance of your life.

You do your best to exist with the hand that you have been dealt. From what I know of you, you try your best to be the best person you can be despite all that you have had to deal with. It makes me sad to think that despite all of this striving, you still feel you have not done enough for yourself or the people in your life you care about.

Yes, continue to be mindful of how you feel, how these drugs are impacting your life; never stop that, but don't beat yourself up over it. You are trying and that is more than many of us can say. 30mg of Hydrocodone a day is no reason to say you haven't lived life to the fullest.
Click to expand...
Dude you know that I love that God has put you in my life!!
 
Iceman1216 said:
@BWG707 Hows the taper going?
I am in the same boat as you , just for a Much longer time [10+ yrs of Norco]
I have been off them for no longer than 2 weeks, then over do it and go back, due to pain, and emotional stress sick family members. My addict brain tells me that a pill will help my moms situation :confused:. Opiates really are a very difficult drug, for me to handle. I have been sober for over 12 years, which is my DOC, but maybe Norco now is my DOC??
I need to really follow a taper!!!
I do not take more than 20-30mgs a day
Click to expand...
I’m not actually tapering right now. I was just wondering about ER vs IR when tapering because I have access to MS Contin right now and was thinking about getting some for when I do feel like tapering off pain meds. I just don’t see myself taking these meds for the rest of my life. I’ve learned that it’s always good to have some sort of safety net. For instance, I always keep enough extra meds stashed in case I need to stop unexpectedly. I don’t take meds to get “high”, I use them for moderate to severe pain relief only. I keep my dosage as low as possible, it constantly fluctuates. Thanks for your concern.
 
Keif' Richards said:
People can use these drugs chronically without them ruining their lives. Like anything else, the problems come to us when we mess with the delicate balance of our lives. Opioids are potent, powerful and difficult for anyone to handle. It's easy for people to make a small mistake and for that to spiral into a serious issue.
Click to expand...
Wise words. But the funny, or sad, thing is that I was wrecking my life with stimulants cause doctors were not taking me seriusly and pain was unbearable. It was when I started using (pharmaceutical) opioids my life stabilised. Even though I was buying them. Now I have a prescription and am fixing the damage I made when I was not using opioids. If we generalise and look at the "typical case" that is presented to us by media then opioids are not worth the risk. But it isn't much different than alcohol situation when it was banned in US...
 
BWG707 said:
I’m not actually tapering right now. I was just wondering about ER vs IR when tapering because I have access to MS Contin right now and was thinking about getting some for when I do feel like tapering off pain meds. I just don’t see myself taking these meds for the rest of my life. I’ve learned that it’s always good to have some sort of safety net. For instance, I always keep enough extra meds stashed in case I need to stop unexpectedly. I don’t take meds to get “high”, I use them for moderate to severe pain relief only. I keep my dosage as low as possible, it constantly fluctuates. Thanks for your concern.
Click to expand...
Same here! I have never been in to the "High " from opiates ! I am a booze guy. Now that wrecked my live and I started in AA in 1982 ... dam that was a long time ago?
i have only been prescribed my pain meds, and have had access to them All due to my age and the fact that I am a Cancer survivor.
I keep a stash as well, for emergencies ( but that also makes it hard to stop??)
I get tired of the Pain , and shittyness of withdrawals .
I am in my early 60s and not really sure what is going on with life, body and mind??
I like to blame everything on the Opiates??? But as I speak with my peers , many of the symptoms, I complain about ( From Opiates) are present with people who do not use opiates???

" Getting old is not for Sissy's" Betty Davis
 
Keif' Richards said:
I've known you for a long time buddy. I feel you have a really hard time giving yourself credit for what you do right. There is so much in what you've said here. This has been going on for years. I understand there has been fluctuation in your dosage, though you never take it to the extreme. In my opinion, these fluctuations all happen within the realm of acceptable use. You have conditions and a history that anybody could say justifies the use of pain medication.

People can use these drugs chronically without them ruining their lives. Like anything else, the problems come to us when we mess with the delicate balance of our lives. Opioids are potent, powerful and difficult for anyone to handle. It's easy for people to make a small mistake and for that to spiral into a serious issue.

You work hard to maintain the balance in your life. You have had other issues with our health and wellbeing that have likewise harmed that balance. You could just as easily say being in pain would negatively effect the balance of your life.

You do your best to exist with the hand that you have been dealt. From what I know of you, you try your best to be the best person you can be despite all that you have had to deal with. It makes me sad to think that despite all of this striving, you still feel you have not done enough for yourself or the people in your life you care about.

Yes, continue to be mindful of how you feel, how these drugs are impacting your life; never stop that, but don't beat yourself up over it. You are trying and that is more than many of us can say. 30mg of Hydrocodone a day is no reason to say you haven't lived life to the fullest.
Click to expand...
Thank brother!! I need to reread you this AM! I am so grateful that God has put you in my life.
Thank you for caring about other people so much.
 
Iceman1216 said:
Thank brother!! I need to reread you this AM! I am so grateful that God has put you in my life.
Thank you for caring about other people so much.
Click to expand...

I am able to care only because so many have cared for me, as you know :)

I can't pretend to know the entirety of your life. From what I do know, I feel that you are beaten down way more by the perceptions associated with using Opioids, as opposed to the actual effects of the drug(s) on you. I write this publicly as I feel there are so many people just like you who struggle with this issue of perception.

Some say addiction is a moral issue, some say it is a disease. I believe there are parts of addiction for which we are responsible and some things that could reasonably be called out of our control.

I mention the morality issue, because I feel that people who are prescribed Opioids for legitimate reasons see everything in the media, hear what people around them say and they internalize these things. They begin to see themselves aligned with the junkies on the street. They are told from all angles that being on Opioids is an objectively bad thing. Those in pain who take Opioids are at best, failing to varying degrees. They COULD be off Opioids. Perhaps they are not strong enough. Perhaps their will is not there.

In short, it is never, under any circumstances OKAY to be taking Opioids, for any person, for any reason, perhaps outside of being on your literal deathbed. This just is not true. It is an example of one of the uglier sides of human nature that we all know and understand - the phenomenon of not being willing to empathize.

"Oh that person is taking Opioids. If I were in pain, I would be strong enough to not take Opioids"

And we are of course familiar with probably the worst fallacy of all, perhaps the one that has led to the most dead people:

"I could never be an addict"

But that's not what we are talking about right now. Opioids are medicine. If we misuse them, they can poison us. With great care and responsibility, they can be taken, allowing a person to maintain a functional life. If you are there for the people you care for, if you're able to give and receive love, if you're living life, then I don't see the problem. If things change and it becomes a problem, you can address it then. From where I'm standing, you are a champion.

I feel like the world around you is causing you to feel badly for something that you need to live. You are upset about having remained stationary in this "thing" for so many years. I see the glass as half full by saying, look at this guy, he's been maintaining this for so many years and he's still doing it, what a guy.
 
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