Harm Reduction Tobacco, not illegal. Just unavailable.

[emkee_reinvented]

So in the land of decline (NL.), there is some progression noticeable concerning Tobacco.

Its in my town no longer available since first Juli. As, from now a former smoker, its a shift. Miss it, but overal agree on heading the good direction. Harm reduction at best. To bad its only focussed on Tobacco atm. But a good first step.

Memorys of Nicotin rushes vanish luckily real fast

 

[burn out]

I've never heard of such a thing. Is it illegal to sell it?

 

[brokedownpalace10]

I've never heard of such a thing. Is it illegal to sell it?

You're not even allowed to grow tobacco in Australia. Not sure about NZ. People grow other nicotanias to smoke, which likely taste like shit.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I've never heard of such a thing. Is it illegal to sell it?

Not yet, banning the sell in supermarkets and horeca are part of phasing out program.
As of now it may only be sold in Tobacco/ specialized stores and at gasstations (till 2030).
Online sales (anything Tobacco to E-cig) to Dutch residents (?) was allready illegal, 1-juli-2023.
And the tax was raised, so a normal ammount costs a fortune now.

basickly if there is no Tobacco store or gassation near, its legal, just have to work to obtain.

In the end illegalizing seems the most logical last step. But someone more knowledgeable might know.
What the gouvernement is planning, maybe Alcohol is next?

 

[Jnowhere]

The government is scared the world is underpopulated

 

[emkee_reinvented]

What is in Tobacco that gives it that reinforcing effect? That rush from a hit off pure Tobacco, no additives.

Its not Nicotine. Nornicotine possess high affinity for alpha-6 and alpha-7 subunits of nAChRs. It also inhibits DAT in striatum via nAChR and releases dopamine in rats. So that seems a more suitable candidate. Anatabine and Anabasine don't seem very recreative.

No mentioning yet found on MAO-inhibitors as present aklaloid's. But Nicotin is no substitute. Imo mere placebo. Or at best Nicotin is just boring and not responseable for the euphoric effects of Tobacco..

 

[Foreigner]

It will just become black market again. *shrug*

 

[emkee_reinvented]

It will just become black market again. *shrug*

Home grow.

 

[deficiT]

What is in Tobacco that gives it that reinforcing effect?

It's the frog legs and arsenic that do it for me

 

[Foreigner]

Home grow.

Home grown is better anyway. No shitty industry chemicals added.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

It's the frog legs and arsenic that do it for me

So they are not growing them on fermented leftover Coca leaves.

Frogs live in my garden (they can miss a frontleg right dry them and powder.
Arsenic i can maybe extract from old [dont thinks its allowed any more] impregnated fence wood.
Add that to some Marsmallow leaf, should theoratically give the same temporary relief.

Cutting up the frog is a good reason to stop, I wouldnt eat its ass either. Its a delicacy so they say.
Like Oyster's, yuck.

Next year with some proper strain seeds, i might give it shot. But then i want the Nicotiana Rustica/ wild tobacco [highest alkaloid content/ 9% vs 3 % in N. Tabacum] , Latakia also powerfull [which was in Dutch snuff Tobacco] or the Dokha variety which was unknown to me.

"Nicotiana rustica is called mapacho in South America. It is often used for entheogenic purposes by South American shamans,[7] because of its high nicotine content and comparatively high levels of beta-carbolines, including the harmala alkaloids harmane and norharmane" [WIKI]

Found the MAO-inhibitors, so they do exist in Tobacco plants.

@Foreigner
Home grown is better anyway. No shitty industry chemicals added.

They told me while in detox commercial Tobacco, the soil is infused wit a.o. menthol, as adding it is illegal now. But more freightening was the adding of Salbutamol, a bronchodilater, so you can take real big drags. Psychiatric nurse told me that, never checked if its true or false info.

But shocking, my tobacco American Spirit was supposedly additive free, lucky me.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Next year with some proper strain seeds, i might give it shot. But then i want the Nicotiana Rustica/ wild tobacco [highest alkaloid content/ 9% vs 3 % in N. Tabacum] , Latakia also powerfull [which was in Dutch snuff Tobacco] or the Dokha variety which was unknown till know.

Latakia is more of a curing process than a strain. It's cured with wood smoke. It's strong enough, but not uber strong (in alkaloids). It does have a strong taste and is a condiment tobacco. If you're just looking for strength, good old Burley is a pretty strong tobacco. It's very alkaline, which will freebase the nic and make it stronger.

I've never grown Rustica, although I always meant to. Ya, it's supposed to be real strong.

If you grow tobacco (tabacum, anyway), it will taste like shit when first dried. There are numerous ways to cure. There is the aforementioned smoke cure, flue cure for Virginia tobacco, and fermenting. Fermenting is kinda the basic thing needed.

For cigars, the leaves are piled in heaps and the internal temp is monitored. When it get too hot (140 degrees F) , the pile is taken apart and restacked. Many people make a curing chamber and keep the temp at around 120 with high humidity for around 6 weeks which does about the same thing. All these break down nasty tasting compounds in the leaf.

When I grew, I took the easy way. If you just stack the tobacco loosely in boxes (or hang it) for a couple/few years, it will accomplish the same thing. Just age it. There are varieties which will cure faster like Yellow Twist Bud (about a year), but good old Kentucky Burley takes a few.

There are places online to buy whole leaf tobacco. About $20 a pound, it's a steal. No additives, obviously, and already cured. What I did was buy that the first year while I started growing. Do a search for whole leaf rustica tobacco and you'll find some for about $20/lb.

I quit a few years back and need to keep that up at my age. Gave my leaf away for a few years but just had a backyard fire which I threw my last boxes of leaf onto. Made the neighborhood smell like tobacco (smelled good) and had the neighbors curious.

I was a pipe smoker. And a good old corn cob is the best and coolest pipe there is. Ask Mark Twain. Plus, a cob kinda fit me as the hippiebilly I am. (Sorry JasperKent, I've said that for years)

"Nicotiana rustica is called mapacho in South America. It is often used for entheogenic purposes by South American shamans,[7] because of its high nicotine content and comparatively high levels of beta-carbolines, including the harmala alkaloids harmane and norharmane" [WIKI]

Found the MAO-inhibitors, so they do exist in Tobacco plants.

Harman and norharman exist in all tobacco, higher in Rustica.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Latakia is more of a curing process than a strain. It's cured with wood smoke. It's strong enough, but not uber strong (in alkaloids). It does have a strong taste and is a condiment tobacco.

Probably the strenght had to do with the fact its so fine milled. A smoked hit released comperatively high levels do to the small size, and the fact you can add more powder then leaf.

I quit a few years back and need to keep that up at my age. Gave my leaf away for a few years but just had a backyard fire which I threw my last boxes of leaf onto. Made the neighborhood smell like tobacco (smelled good) and had the neighbors curious.

Yeah my lungs say the same leave that leaf alone, you pass 50. And even minor smoking taxes them, noticeable. Not my condition yet, dont feel shortbreathed. Like to keep it so. So me quit to, last pack ended last week.

 

[LuiBliss]

This is just blasphemy. Tobacco is a choice. Tobacco is freedom. Tobacco is holy. Tobacco is medicinal.

For harm reduction, they must let you know of the dangers of smoking tobacco, but there are benefits to it as well.

Jeanne Clement, lived to the age of 122, and is the oldest person to have ever lived, was a smoker.

Natives view it as medicine and is a plant that is worshipped.

There is another side to the story.

It's demonization is an attack on our freedom and liberty.

 

[Jnowhere]

This is just blasphemy. Tobacco is a choice. Tobacco is freedom. Tobacco is holy. Tobacco is medicinal.

For harm reduction, they must let you know of the dangers of smoking tobacco, but there are benefits to it as well.

Jeanne Clement, lived to the age of 122, and is the oldest person to have ever lived, was a smoker.

Natives view it as medicine and is a plant that is worshipped.

There is another side to the story.

It's demonization is an attack on our freedom and liberty.

That dude who is on the picture of the video, looks like he would be wise and have good judgement. .

I am a smoker and I know smoking is bad. The only arguement I will accept is the freedom argument. Freedom to make your own bad decisions, but I guess I am alone here; on here as the only one on BL, who has made bad decisions. LMAO

 

[emkee_reinvented]

This is just blasphemy. Tobacco is a choice. Tobacco is freedom. Tobacco is holy. Tobacco is medicinal.

For harm reduction, they must let you know of the dangers of smoking tobacco, but there are benefits to it as well.

Jeanne Clement, lived to the age of 122, and is the oldest person to have ever lived, was a smoker.

Natives view it as medicine and is a plant that is worshipped.

There is another side to the story.

It's demonization is an attack on our freedom and liberty.

Secundair inhaled vapor has been proven to contain high/ low denstity particules.
Like smoked Tobacco and anything smoked, and the verdict was:
that is not harmless as it was believed to be.

The reseach was crappy as it had no mention on wether, Tobacco was vaped.
Or some sort of cartridge with whatever is in those and nicotin salts.
So as research i found it lacking but disturbing. Just bought a vape for my 'erb.

And this would mean, indoor its as bad for others as smoking,
will not get em stinky like 2-nd hand smoke would.
Hope it a quack research, funded by a zero tolerance group.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

That dude who is on the picture of the video, looks like he would be wise and have good judgement. .

I am a smoker and I know smoking is bad. The only arguement I will accept is the freedom argument. Freedom to make your own bad decisions, but I guess I am alone here; on here as the only one on BL, who has made bad decisions. LMAO

As it was to boring. Smoking is a expression almost of it. Didn t watch all the way.
You know what they say, there is something about Nicotin that makes us think,
Things that are not ! Are Ok. Science rules.

But 2-nd hand smoke is relased at least 45 minutes after you toke. Might be more.
So to the 'there is ... lets quickly puff" and head in. Will make a whole space bbq-ed.
For quite a while, if its in a closed area like a room or in transportation [public/ car].

So a smoker should at least endure a hour of letting 'it' [mostly PAHs] out before coming in.
Law will soon follow though here, might might take a year 1,2,3 4 or more.
But how they wanna imply it is btw not my concern, i am a observer.

Eventually that is the score

 

[LuiBliss]

That dude who is on the picture of the video, looks like he would be wise and have good judgement. .

I am a smoker and I know smoking is bad. The only arguement I will accept is the freedom argument. Freedom to make your own bad decisions, but I guess I am alone here; on here as the only one on BL, who has made bad decisions. LMAO

Why do you think that it's bad? why don't you make lifestyle choices where smoking would be a complimenting factor to it. It seems that you think fire, as mentioned in the video, is also bad? It's bad if you burn yourself with it.. it's bad when it causes forest fires.. But campfire is awesome. A fireplace keeps you warm and its awesome. The fire that cooks your food is awesome. But this same fire burnt a lot of peoples house down. So if it burnt down people houses i.e. people died of cigarette smoking.. does it mean that all fire is bad?

The longest living human was a smoker, how was that bad? For all i know, she transmuted the ill effects that some people experince with smoking into a life of longevity. If she can do it we all can..

P.s. and yes the dude in the video is wise and does have good judgement :-D its me!!!

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Fuck NZ and AUS and i guess NL for banning tobacco. Now they just get black market poison chinese cigs.

I hope China starts trafficking fentanyl laced ciggies into these countries to show these fuckers that banning drugs just makes everything worse.

The US banned menthol cigarettes so we are on our way there. Land of the free. Fuck the US and their sham of freedom. Democrats don’t even have elections anymore they just install
Corporate shills. The western world is turning authoritarian and freedom is a joke.

 

[Jnowhere]

Why do you think that it's bad? why don't you make lifestyle choices where smoking would be a complimenting factor to it. It seems that you think fire, as mentioned in the video, is also bad? It's bad if you burn yourself with it.. it's bad when it causes forest fires.. But campfire is awesome. A fireplace keeps you warm and its awesome. The fire that cooks your food is awesome. But this same fire burnt a lot of peoples house down. So if it burnt down people houses i.e. people died of cigarette smoking.. does it mean that all fire is bad?

The longest living human was a smoker, how was that bad? For all i know, she transmuted the ill effects that some people experince with smoking into a life of longevity. If she can do it we all can..

P.s. and yes the dude in the video is wise and does have good judgement :-D its me!!!

I don't want to ban it but, I have seen family members die early because of it.
All because one freak of nature lives long is hardly in keeping with the scientific method.

If I had my way they would be almost tax free and you would be able to still smoke in bars. And restaurants could choose to allow a smoking section or not. As a teenager I could smoke in malls and restaurants.

You missed the point, smoking is not healthy, but up to the individual whether or not to smoke, chew tobacco or whatever.

I am against all these bans and high taxes. I also believe second hand smoke shit is basically bullshit, with a few narrow exceptions.

Hell, I even believe allowing smoking to prisoners who behave themselves as long as they aren't trading the weak for a few packs or cartons of cigarettes.

I am horrified at them raising the smoking age to 21. If you your 18 and an American male, you have do what I did and almost every other 18 year old male who is an American male does. Go to the post office or possibly a federal building and register for the selective service. Even though there hasn't been a draft( besides sports, smart ass) in over half a century.

Smoking is not healthy, so what, it is a choice. And I am against all the bullshit that really start to gain momentum in the 90's. I am against it in elevators, theatres, commercial jets on commercial flights, (but I would allow for specifically designated flights to allow it) and some other places. However I believe it is up to the proprietor of a business to decide if they want to allow it or not.

If you really believe smoking cigarettes is good for you, then you need to put the pipe down and get help.