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2024 US Presidential Election

what did i learn?

the full extent of trump's preparation seems to have been "no matter the question, talk about millions of illegal immigrants from prisons and mental asylums"

biden does look old.

alasdair
 
2 minutes to sum up and trump didn't say a single thing he intends to do as president (other than "we're going to make it great again")

man, biden looks old but i think he at least attempted to answer many of the questions. he also talked about how he would do things.

trump is all vague "what" and zero "how".

i doubt this changed many minds.

alasdair
 
I didn't think it was possible but both candidates lost the debate.

And America is the bigger loser for it.

The DNC made a huge mistake turfing RFK or basically any other viable candidate.

By the way left wing media is talking about Biden right now, I wouldn't be surprised if the DNC puts someone else up soon. If they don't, then your choices are a senile person and a pathologically lying felon.

That debate was clown world 🤡
 
Fascism has been gaining popularity in the US and its why there are a bunch of right wing militias now such as the proud boys
Nobody said that, literally nobody
You insinuated it, taking a leaf out of the mainstream media playbook and reaching for any whiff of a right-wing violent tendency in order to paint broad strokes. While simultaneously ignoring the egregious actions of the far-left over the past decade.. colluding with state power and acting through the corporate sector (i.e. tech) in order to silence and stifle any real debate on topics that are shoved down everyone's throats e.g. the trans and gender stuff, immigration, etc.

We see an identical situation, minus the guns, taking place in the UK and the EU at the moment. Right-wing, and yes far-right groups, are gaining momentum, not because they actually have anything real to offer anyone but because there is simply no other outlet for all the internalized frustration that people are feeling from being condescended to by the establishment and its useful idiots on the left.

The irony is that all the calls by the liberal left-leaning people, like yourself, that fascism is going to rise again are most likely correct. But you helped birth it! By not resisting the evident nonsense spoon fed to everyone over the past decade or two, creating very real problems that will require draconian measures to fix. And when the public feels threatened enough they will cheer it on, including you I imagine.
 
I think they’re afraid to say the CIA is in control.
Well, at least there's some centralized intelligence at the helm. That's a positive, right?

Some of the clips of Biden are ridiculous. What's it going to take, a stroke live on stage? You can see him straining trying to keep a coherent stream of consciousness and failing, because his brain is past it. It's not even funny, it's just tragic at this point.

You see military coups for less than this. If your 80 year old relative was clearly senile, you'd have serious reservations about letting them drive let alone getting in a car with them. Yet this man is at the helm of the most powerful military on Earth? I don't think it could be more obvious that the role of President is just for show.
 
You insinuated it, taking a leaf out of the mainstream media playbook and reaching for any whiff of a right-wing violent tendency in order to paint broad strokes. While simultaneously ignoring the egregious actions of the far-left over the past decade.. colluding with state power and acting through the corporate sector (i.e. tech) in order to silence and stifle any real debate on topics that are shoved down everyone's throats e.g. the trans and gender stuff, immigration, etc.

We see an identical situation, minus the guns, taking place in the UK and the EU at the moment. Right-wing, and yes far-right groups, are gaining momentum, not because they actually have anything real to offer anyone but because there is simply no other outlet for all the internalized frustration that people are feeling from being condescended to by the establishment and its useful idiots on the left.

The irony is that all the calls by the liberal left-leaning people, like yourself, that fascism is going to rise again are most likely correct. But you helped birth it! By not resisting the evident nonsense spoon fed to everyone over the past decade or two, creating very real problems that will require draconian measures to fix. And when the public feels threatened enough they will cheer it on, including you I imagine.
I love how you're so good at cherry picking that you can cherry pick a single sentence statement

Groups like the proud boys are ultra nationalist and heavily religious far right extremist groups which fits the definitions of fascism perfectly
 
Groups like the proud boys are ultra nationalist and heavily religious far right extremist groups which fits the definitions of fascism perfectly
Yeah, and that doesn't equate to 'fascism is gaining popularity in the US' does it. Fascism is not gaining popularity. Just like far-right or Nazi ideology is not gaining popularity in Europe. There's a percentage of idiots who get sucked into it when they can't intellectually reason things out, because there is no avenue for it, but that is not the same as saying it is gaining popularity.

Deliberately disingenuous use of language. And again, you talking that way just feeds the monster itself.. you are goading it into existence.
 
Well, at least there's some centralized intelligence at the helm. That's a positive, right?

Some of the clips of Biden are ridiculous. What's it going to take, a stroke live on stage? You can see him straining trying to keep a coherent stream of consciousness and failing, because his brain is past it. It's not even funny, it's just tragic at this point.

You see military coups for less than this. If your 80 year old relative was clearly senile, you'd have serious reservations about letting them drive let alone getting in a car with them. Yet this man is at the helm of the most powerful military on Earth? I don't think it could be more obvious that the role of President is just for show.
The CIA in charge is wrong. It's just scratching the surface of the deep state. Out of control spending. Inflation. Taxes. Then there's the Nation to Epstein, and war on drugs. Hunter's laptop. Hilary's emails. It a plan for the military industrial complex to perpetuate wars we don't need to involved ourselves with. unconstitutional legislation and laws. Mass surveillance. the list goes on.
 
The CIA in charge is wrong. It's just scratching the surface of the deep state. Out of control spending. Inflation. Taxes. Then there's the Nation to Epstein, and war on drugs. Hunter's laptop. Hilary's emails. It a plan for the military industrial complex to perpetuate wars we don't need to involved ourselves with. unconstitutional legislation and laws. Mass surveillance. the list goes on.
It goes deep indeed. You can sum it up in a nutshell though; the USA is a war factory and tax procurement operation on behalf of the British/European establishment. It never really secured its freedom from the Crown/City, going right back to the founding fathers and Alexander Hamilton ("Agent 7"), and its tentacles are stuck in through several different mechanisms; the CIA is just one example, established by senior MI6 operatives.

As we converge towards the goal of totalitarian global governance, the picture becomes clearer. We can see all these mechanisms working in unison, and across many other nations as well that similarly have been infected by this hidden cartel.
 
the CIA is just one example,
All the alphabet agencies. FBI, DEA, CDC, you can see they are the problem.
They are a handme down of every past presidents failed policies.
The government went bankrupt, blamed us, and rewarded us with COVID.
And the patriot act was a good idea?
 
Haven't seen the debate. I don't know if I have to. Across the board, the coverage is that Trump lied a lot and Biden looked old. By all accounts Biden did lose. He lost because the last thing he could do is appear old and he did.

This guy has always given very good analysis of the news. He generally gives me a different, and a real perspective. Before anyone jumps on me for "linking to someone apologetic to Biden", realize that before the debate he thought that Biden had a clear advantage and now he seems to be not making a call either way.

He has since the start emphasized that both Biden and Trump have their base which will not be moved and that the election depends on independents and voter turnout.

To all the liberal, left wing, bedwetters (my people!), reading and watching, two key sentences...
"Do you know anybody who really understands how government works (or) knows a lot about policy that is a Trump supporter... or even undecided? Biden already has their votes."


 
i watched it and it was pretty much as expected.

trump talked a lot about people from prisoners and mental asylums streaming over the border and murdering u.s. citizens. he talked about it when asked about immigration. he talked about when asked what he'd do to address addiction he talked about it pretty much every time.

his performance was full of the usual trump lies and vague claims. lots of "what" with virtually no "how".

he tried hard to reframe the roe vs. wade decision but he's been bragging about it so much in the lead up i feel the damage is already done there. he said that democrats kill babies after birth.

he said a few things that just came off as his typical childish banter and a few that made no sense at all:
  • "We have a border that’s the most dangerous place anywhere in the world – considered the most dangerous place anywhere in the world."
  • "...we don’t have borders anymore. Every state is now a border."
  • "...our veterans and our soldiers can’t stand this guy. They can’t stand him. They think he’s the worst commander in chief, if that’s what you call him, that we’ve ever had. They can’t stand him. So let’s get that straight. And they like me more than just about any of them. And that’s based on every single bit of information."
  • "People being killed so needlessly, so stupidly, and I will get it settled and I’ll get it settled fast before I take office." (on the ukraine conflict)
  • "So, I want absolutely immaculate clean water and I want absolutely clean air, and we had it. We had H2O. We had the best numbers ever. And we did – we were using all forms of energy, all forms, everything. And yet, during my four years, I had the best environmental numbers ever."
  • "To finish up, we now have the largest deficit in the history of our country under this guy, we have the largest deficit with China. He gets paid by China. He’s a Manchurian Candidate. He gets money from China. So I think he’s afraid to deal with him or something.
  • But do you notice? He never took out my tariffs because we bring in so much money with the tariffs that I imposed on China. He never took them away. He can’t because it’s too much money. It’s tremendous. And we saved our steel industries. And there was more to come, but he hasn’t done that.
  • But he hasn’t cut the tariffs because he can’t, because it’s too much money. But he’s got the largest deficit in the history of our country and he’s got the worst situation with China. China is going to own us if you keep allowing them to do what they’re doing to us as a country. They are killing us as a country, Joe, and you can’t let that happen. You’re destroying our country." (in response to the question "What will you do to help Americans right now in the throes of addiction, who are struggling to get the treatment they need?")
for me, that last reply pretty much summed up his approach - don't answer the question. talk vaguely and hyperbolically about "joe biden bad" and say nothing specific about how you'll address the issue.

biden looked really old - not good.

but he did try to answer the questions with both whats and hows. for example he was asked "President Biden, you’ve put forward a proposal to resolve this conflict. But so far, Hamas has not released the remaining hostages and Israel is continuing its military offensive in Gaza. So, what additional leverage will you use to get Hamas and Israel to end the war?" to which he answered "The first stage is to treat the hostages for a ceasefire. Second phase is a ceasefire with additional conditions. The third phase is know the end of the war. The only one who wants the war to continue is Hamas, number one. They’re the only ones standing down (ph).

We’re still pushing hard from – to get them to accept. In the meantime, what’s happened in Israel? We’re finally – the only thing I’ve denied Israel was 2,000-pound bombs. They don’t work very well in populated areas. They kill a lot of innocent people. We are providing Israel with all the weapons they need and when they need them. And by the way, I’m the guy that organized the world against Iran when they had a full-blown kind of ballistic missile attack on Israel. No one was hurt. No one Israeli was accidentally killed. And it stopped. We saved Israel. We are the biggest producer of support for Israel than anyone in the world. And so, that’s – they are two different things.

Hamas cannot be allowed to be continued. We continue to send our experts and our intelligence people to how they can get Hamas like we did Bin Laden. You don’t have to do it. And by the way, they’ve been greatly weakened, Hamas, greatly weakened, and they should be. They should be eliminated. But, you got to be careful for what you use these certain weapons among population centers.
". you may love or hate his answer but at least he answered.

another example. question "Will you name tonight one specific step that you’re willing to take to keep Social Security solvent?" and answer "Yes, make the very wealthy begin to pay their fair share...I would not raise the cost of Social Security for anybody under $400,000. After that, I begin to make the wealthy begin to pay their fair share, by increasing from 1 percent beyond, to be able to guarantee the program for life.".

again, love it or hate it. compare it with trump's rambling non-answer: "So I’ve dealt with politicians all my life. I’ve been on this side of the equation for the last eight years. I’ve never seen anybody lie like this guy. He lies – I’ve never seen it. He could look you in the face. So – and about so many other things, too.

And we mentioned the laptop, We mentioned “Russia, Russia, Russia,” “Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine.” And everything he does is a lie. It’s misinformation and disinformation. The “losers and suckers” story that he made up is a total lie on the military. It’s a disgrace.

But Social Security, he’s destroying it. Because millions of people are pouring into our country, and they’re putting them on to Social Security; they’re putting them on to Medicare, Medicaid. They’re putting them in our hospitals. They’re taking the place of our citizens.

They’re – what they’re doing to the V.A., to our veterans, is unbelievable. Our veterans are living in the street and these people are living in luxury hotels. He doesn’t know what he’s doing. And it – it’s really coming back. I’ve never seen such anger in our country before.
"

and he - biden - owned his failure, to some extent. asked "What do you say to black voters who are disappointed with the progress so far?" he began "I say, I don’t blame them for being disappointed." can you imagine trump ever making a concession like that?

it was a pretty sad night for u.s. politics i think.

alasdair
 
i watched it and it was pretty much as expected.

trump talked a lot about people from prisoners and mental asylums streaming over the border and murdering u.s. citizens. he talked about it when asked about immigration. he talked about when asked what he'd do to address addiction he talked about it pretty much every time.

his performance was full of the usual trump lies and vague claims. lots of "what" with virtually no "how".

he tried hard to reframe the roe vs. wade decision but he's been bragging about it so much in the lead up i feel the damage is already done there. he said that democrats kill babies after birth.

he said a few things that just came off as his typical childish banter and a few that made no sense at all:
  • "We have a border that’s the most dangerous place anywhere in the world – considered the most dangerous place anywhere in the world."
  • "...we don’t have borders anymore. Every state is now a border."
  • "...our veterans and our soldiers can’t stand this guy. They can’t stand him. They think he’s the worst commander in chief, if that’s what you call him, that we’ve ever had. They can’t stand him. So let’s get that straight. And they like me more than just about any of them. And that’s based on every single bit of information."
  • "People being killed so needlessly, so stupidly, and I will get it settled and I’ll get it settled fast before I take office." (on the ukraine conflict)
  • "So, I want absolutely immaculate clean water and I want absolutely clean air, and we had it. We had H2O. We had the best numbers ever. And we did – we were using all forms of energy, all forms, everything. And yet, during my four years, I had the best environmental numbers ever."
  • "To finish up, we now have the largest deficit in the history of our country under this guy, we have the largest deficit with China. He gets paid by China. He’s a Manchurian Candidate. He gets money from China. So I think he’s afraid to deal with him or something.
  • But do you notice? He never took out my tariffs because we bring in so much money with the tariffs that I imposed on China. He never took them away. He can’t because it’s too much money. It’s tremendous. And we saved our steel industries. And there was more to come, but he hasn’t done that.
  • But he hasn’t cut the tariffs because he can’t, because it’s too much money. But he’s got the largest deficit in the history of our country and he’s got the worst situation with China. China is going to own us if you keep allowing them to do what they’re doing to us as a country. They are killing us as a country, Joe, and you can’t let that happen. You’re destroying our country." (in response to the question "What will you do to help Americans right now in the throes of addiction, who are struggling to get the treatment they need?")
for me, that last reply pretty much summed up his approach - don't answer the question. talk vaguely and hyperbolically about "joe biden bad" and say nothing specific about how you'll address the issue.

biden looked really old - not good.

but he did try to answer the questions with both whats and hows. for example he was asked "President Biden, you’ve put forward a proposal to resolve this conflict. But so far, Hamas has not released the remaining hostages and Israel is continuing its military offensive in Gaza. So, what additional leverage will you use to get Hamas and Israel to end the war?" to which he answered "The first stage is to treat the hostages for a ceasefire. Second phase is a ceasefire with additional conditions. The third phase is know the end of the war. The only one who wants the war to continue is Hamas, number one. They’re the only ones standing down (ph).

We’re still pushing hard from – to get them to accept. In the meantime, what’s happened in Israel? We’re finally – the only thing I’ve denied Israel was 2,000-pound bombs. They don’t work very well in populated areas. They kill a lot of innocent people. We are providing Israel with all the weapons they need and when they need them. And by the way, I’m the guy that organized the world against Iran when they had a full-blown kind of ballistic missile attack on Israel. No one was hurt. No one Israeli was accidentally killed. And it stopped. We saved Israel. We are the biggest producer of support for Israel than anyone in the world. And so, that’s – they are two different things.

Hamas cannot be allowed to be continued. We continue to send our experts and our intelligence people to how they can get Hamas like we did Bin Laden. You don’t have to do it. And by the way, they’ve been greatly weakened, Hamas, greatly weakened, and they should be. They should be eliminated. But, you got to be careful for what you use these certain weapons among population centers.
". you may love or hate his answer but at least he answered.

another example. question "Will you name tonight one specific step that you’re willing to take to keep Social Security solvent?" and answer "Yes, make the very wealthy begin to pay their fair share...I would not raise the cost of Social Security for anybody under $400,000. After that, I begin to make the wealthy begin to pay their fair share, by increasing from 1 percent beyond, to be able to guarantee the program for life.".

again, love it or hate it. compare it with trump's rambling non-answer: "So I’ve dealt with politicians all my life. I’ve been on this side of the equation for the last eight years. I’ve never seen anybody lie like this guy. He lies – I’ve never seen it. He could look you in the face. So – and about so many other things, too.

And we mentioned the laptop, We mentioned “Russia, Russia, Russia,” “Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine.” And everything he does is a lie. It’s misinformation and disinformation. The “losers and suckers” story that he made up is a total lie on the military. It’s a disgrace.

But Social Security, he’s destroying it. Because millions of people are pouring into our country, and they’re putting them on to Social Security; they’re putting them on to Medicare, Medicaid. They’re putting them in our hospitals. They’re taking the place of our citizens.

They’re – what they’re doing to the V.A., to our veterans, is unbelievable. Our veterans are living in the street and these people are living in luxury hotels. He doesn’t know what he’s doing. And it – it’s really coming back. I’ve never seen such anger in our country before.
"

and he - biden - owned his failure, to some extent. asked "What do you say to black voters who are disappointed with the progress so far?" he began "I say, I don’t blame them for being disappointed." can you imagine trump ever making a concession like that?

it was a pretty sad night for u.s. politics i think.

alasdair
Yeah, Beau and the media said that Trump lied nonstop. Hopefully, as said, the fact checkers will do something with that in the next couple weeks. Point of Beau's video... voters are not going to for, voters will vote against someone in this election.

Now, if the Dems push that fact checking in the media instead of writing a stern memo about it.

biden.png



************************
Postscript

Like I said before, I'll be 69 in a few days. I take care of myself and I feel pretty good most of the time. However, there are days when I fucking feel 69. Good days and bad days with mostly good ones. Biden takes care of himself (better than Trump). Whatever the percentage good to bad you believe about Biden, that explains things more than drugs or even scripts.

The way he trapped the Repugs on SS in the state of the union would have been hard to script. Now, if only Dems would be exploiting the Republican's statements and bills attacking SS since.
 
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