Bupe Suboxone Conspiracy to ruin addicts teeth

[DeathIndustrial88]

O

Damn. I'm sure I actually used an online comparison/calculator thing and it worked out that my meds - if I lived in the U.S. - would WELL exceed $1000/month. Like $1500 or something. I assume that's without insurance. In the UK there's a flat rate for all meds so basically whatever the prescription is for or how many (so, choosing random things here, 28 x 500mg Amoxicillin, 100 x Neurontin 800mg and 360 bottles of Ensure* would all cost the same). It's the equivalent of about $14 regardless of generic or brand, what the drug is, how many pills you get etc.
Or, for some people (like anyone over 60) every pill/prescription is free. I'm on 18 prescription meds and all of them are free because I'm on Insulin and if you're on certain meds that are considered "life-saving" (such as insulin) not only is that med free, but everything you get prescribed is free.

*A real prescription I got once. Had to have two random strong-looking dudes I saw at the pharmacy cart all the ensure to my car for me as the reason I needed them was I had malnutrition and weighed 91lbs lol

Hope you at least don't have to pay for the dental work? Or are able to get a type of suboxone/subutex/buprenorphine that is more dentally-friendly! I had to pay for my dental work as it was considered cosmetic (had it done because I was ashamed to smile at anyone not because of pain) but it was still partially covered by NHS so it was the equivalent of like $400 I think.

Oh yeah, $1000 for a script without insurance sounds about right.

Back when I still got brand name Suboxone, I luckily had state insurance that paid for it (I still had to pay anywhere from $1-4 for it). But whenever I picked it up, I would look at the paper that came with it & it would always say like "your insurance saved you $995.99". I was always astonished. So basically some one without insurance would be absolutely fucked or forced to pay over a grand a month just for their meds, which is just flat out insane. Especially when it cost the companies pennies to manufacture some shitty buprenorphine.

Healthcare in the US is abysmal. If you're totally poor, it helps to get on state & federal health insurance, but it won't cover a lot of things. And if you're middle class, so not really poor but not rich either & you don't have insurance, then you're looking at insane medical & prescription costs. It's truly perplexing.

I've known people who have quit their jobs & intentionally made themselves poor, just so they'd qualify for medicaid & then could get their health issues looked at.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

O

Oh yeah, $1000 for a script without insurance sounds about right.

Back when I still got brand name Suboxone, I luckily had state insurance that paid for it (I still had to pay anywhere from $1-4 for it). But whenever I picked it up, I would look at the paper that came with it & it would always say like "your insurance saved you $995.99". I was always astonished. So basically some one without insurance would be absolutely fucked or forced to pay over a grand a month just for their meds, which is just flat out insane. Especially when it cost the companies pennies to manufacture some shitty buprenorphine.

Healthcare in the US is abysmal. If you're totally poor, it helps to get on state & federal health insurance, but it won't cover a lot of things. And if you're middle class, so not really poor but not rich either & you don't have insurance, then you're looking at insane medical & prescription costs. It's truly perplexing.

I've known people who have quit their jobs & intentionally made themselves poor, just so they'd qualify for medicaid & then could get their health issues looked at.

Abysmal, learned a new word today. That fit's the description of our healtcare to, after our health care was privatized. Ending the era of national health care provided by the state, that also had its flaws. Mainly there was a big difference in treatment (starting with Coffee for the rich, water for the poor). Some dr's even seperated their patient's in two different visitting hours group's.

And still we are not better of but worse. So bad choice, but obviously not as bad as the situation in the US is.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

i don't even need to read this to tell you it is a real real problem. First sentence in my bupe papers from the pharm always say "Brush teeth Immediately after taking". Since it is the first sentence I have two premises.

1. They are very aware it is a problem and have chosen to do nothing.
2. I know suboxone ruined my teeth. (sometimes I feel like I might as well have went with meth; but thats just silly)

 

[Pickledlemons]

Well I do agree that long term bupe use can be a problem for teeth. I've been on it for damn near 10 years and mine are in pretty good shape.

I take a generic from pms. I like it more than the other generics for a few reasons 1) its tastes better 2) Certain artificial sweeteners give me heart palpitations, and other generics were giving me heart palpitations and I suspect that may have been the cause.

The generics are paid for by the government here. If I want name brand I have to pay out of pocket. If they are out of the pms I will pay, rather than get a different generic. But its not much... $30 bucks for 2 weeks or something like that, can't remember its been so long since its happened.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Well I do agree that long term bupe use can be a problem for teeth. I've been on it for damn near 10 years and mine are in pretty good shape.

I take a generic from pms. I like it more than the other generics for a few reasons 1) its tastes better 2) Certain artificial sweeteners give me heart palpitations, and other generics were giving me heart palpitations and I suspect that may have been the cause.

The generics are paid for by the government here. If I want name brand I have to pay out of pocket. If they are out of the pms I will pay, rather than get a different generic. But its not much... $30 bucks for 2 weeks or something like that, can't remember its been so long since its happened.

Interesting.
I started having heart palpitations recently & ended up in the ER. They told me it was a heart arrhythmia brought on by over use of caffeine, stress & ephedrine.

I didn't know artificial sweeteners could cause palpitations?

I've been trying to figure out what triggers mine but have no idea. I can drink a bunch of caffeine one day & be fine & then not drinking any another day & suddenly I'll have palpitations. And generic bupe is one of the only main things I take everyday, but I dunno if it's the cause for mine. Mine seem to have a mind of their own & come & go.


Either way, they really do not need these artificial sweeteners in there & they know it. They just choose not to give a fuck & put profits over everyone's health.


Does anyone in the US even get Subutex/generic mono-buprenorphine anymore? Are there any laws against prescribing it to people? Like I can't understand why wanting to save my teeth & health isn't a valid excuse for letting my doc switch me to generic subutex, unless she's afraid of prescribing it for some reason.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

i don't even need to read this to tell you it is a real real problem. First sentence in my bupe papers from the pharm always say "Brush teeth Immediately after taking". Since it is the first sentence I have two premises.

1. They are very aware it is a problem and have chosen to do nothing.
2. I know suboxone ruined my teeth. (sometimes I feel like I might as well have went with meth; but thats just silly)

Brushing within 30 minutes will just worsen it , wait at least 45 or so and all before that what woul help is flushing. Not an option with Sub's. Then there is Xylitol and such acid neutralizer's.

The manual is wrong on purpose ment to stimulate teeth decay. Which will benefit at least dentist's. Money. Or is just the merely prejudce, or who cares its just a junki.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I in general don't believe in any "diet" type foods/drinks. LIke anything "sugar free", "low fat"

The industrie does which is pretty logic as a bottle of Lemonade with sugar is the same price as the light version.

And most probably most will allready see the oppertunity. Sugar being way more expensive (growing / crystalizing /transporting /storing then a sweetener. It lead to light version's.
But these probably sounded to pussy to us guy's. So 'Alleyhoop' a black zero version appeared.
Marketing at his best, from the producer's point of view, don't be the fool that doesn't see through the lies and deceit. MONEY!

 

[PharmaTrain]

This post is part fun / part serious. I also think it needs to be discussed.

I've been on Suboxone for about 8 years now. Originally started with generic subutex while I waited for insurance to cover brand name Suboxone. And then eventually insurance quit covering brand name & switched to generic only.

I've noticed that EVERY SINGLE Suboxone generic contains artificial flavorings, citric acid & artificial colors. All which lead to tooth loss & tooth decay.


Yet, Subutex & generic subutex generally contains no colorings, no citric acid & no artificial flavorings. While also happening to be stigmatized & wrongly professed to be a "more abusable" version of buprenorphine. Which we all know isn't true.


Anyone who knows even a modicum of pharmacology knows that the naloxone in Suboxone/Generic Suboxone is completely pointless.


So why is Suboxone & it's generics loaded with shit that rots your teeth? I could ALMOST understand if buprenorphine had a real foul taste, but as some one who's once had generic mono-bupe, it has almost no taste at all really. So why are they doing this?


I brought this up to my sub doc recently in hopes she would switch me to mono buprenorphine & I could save my teeth, but she basically said there was nothing we could do about it. Which means either she's afraid to prescribe mono-buprenorphine or just didn't care about my concerns. I know she knows the naloxone is pointless. but perhaps the DEA harasses doctors more if they prescribe subutex? I don't understand the problem of switching me.


There is absolutely no reason why Suboxone generics need to be loaded with flavorings. These are adults taking these medicines, not children, so why do I need "artificial lemon-lime flavoring" with my meds? It's really irritating.


At this point I truly believe it's being done to ruin the dental health of addicts, which can then also be used to further perpetuate stereotypes that "opioids ruin your looks". I've been on at least 7 different types of generic suboxone & every single one was loaded with teeth-rotting additives.


Anyone else ever think about this?

Yeah I switched from brand name subs to bupe due to the crap in the subs that I don't want. I told the Doc straight up the ingredients were bad and they switched be over. But after a couple months the pharmacy started giving me problems with the generic I wanted for the bupe and the clons. Some Doctors are afraid but the pharmacies are sketchy nowadays. 30 years ago I would've took em for everything they got now I rather switch pharmacies and not see those people again..

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Yeah I switched from brand name subs to bupe due to the crap in the subs that I don't want. I told the Doc straight up the ingredients were bad and they switched be over. But after a couple months the pharmacy started giving me problems with the generic I wanted for the bupe and the clons. Some Doctors are afraid but the pharmacies are sketchy nowadays. 30 years ago I would've took em for everything they got now I rather switch pharmacies and not see those people again..

Did you switch to generic subutex, as in bupe with no naloxone? Or generic subs? As in generic bupe/naloxone?

Cause the generic subs are basically the same as the brand name strips, as far as ingredients go. Although the generics vary wildly in how much of the flavoring they put in.

 

[PharmaTrain]

Did you switch to generic subutex, as in bupe with no naloxone? Or generic subs? As in generic bupe/naloxone?

Cause the generic subs are basically the same as the brand name strips, as far as ingredients go. Although the generics vary wildly in how much of the flavoring they put in.

generic subutex.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

generic subutex.

Aaah okay, that makes sense then.


Damn, I wonder why it was so easy for you to switch to generic subutex. I asked my doctor to do the same & all she said was "well there's nothing we can do about it" (in reference to me not wanting all that crap that's in generic suboxones). I know my doc isn't stupid & I know she knows that all that shit was useless, but she acted like she couldn't switch me to generic subutex for whatever reason. I don't get it. It's bullshit.

I'm fuckin' sick of doctors. My psyche tried to lie to me twice & told me it was "illegal to prescribe stimulants with opioids" (cause I asked about using a stim for depression and I'm on subs). I called her out on that & said "no it's not, I know plenty of people on subs + stims & even full agonists + stims". And then she tried to lie again by saying it was dangerous to "mix depressants & stimulants". Which is also a lie. It's not inherently dangerous to mix the two, it's only dangerous if the person is abusing the hell out of both, not taking therapeutic doses of them.

So glad the US prioritizes war over letting Americans make their own fuckin' choices when it comes to medical care & treatment. Nothing will ever change in this stupid country.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

Brushing within 30 minutes will just worsen it , wait at least 45 or so and all before that what woul help is flushing. Not an option with Sub's. Then there is Xylitol and such acid neutralizer's.

The manual is wrong on purpose ment to stimulate teeth decay. Which will benefit at least dentist's. Money. Or is just the merely prejudce, or who cares its just a junki.

Thank you for this. Why am I not suprised.

 

[Pickledlemons]

Are there any laws against prescribing it to people? Like I can't understand why wanting to save my teeth & health isn't a valid excuse for letting my doc switch me to generic subutex, unless she's afraid of prescribing it for some reason.

I don't think so. I know the narcan does nothing, you do, the doc does, but will some random lawyer understand? Your doc is probably trying to protect themselves.

Anyway I don't know much about the US healthcare system, I hear it can be a tangled mess, but idk maybe see if you can get the pms, it still has naloxone in it... but I mean if you're having these problems, can't hurt to try, eh? It also still has a sweetener in it, and forgive me I did this research years ago so I don't remember the details exactly, but I did find ingredient lists and it was at least a different sweetener than the other ones had that were giving me the unpleasant symptoms (including the heart palpitations).

 

[Pickledlemons]

Aaah okay, that makes sense then.


Damn, I wonder why it was so easy for you to switch to generic subutex. I asked my doctor to do the same & all she said was "well there's nothing we can do about it" (in reference to me not wanting all that crap that's in generic suboxones). I know my doc isn't stupid & I know she knows that all that shit was useless, but she acted like she couldn't switch me to generic subutex for whatever reason. I don't get it. It's bullshit.

I'm fuckin' sick of doctors. My psyche tried to lie to me twice & told me it was "illegal to prescribe stimulants with opioids" (cause I asked about using a stim for depression and I'm on subs). I called her out on that & said "no it's not, I know plenty of people on subs + stims & even full agonists + stims". And then she tried to lie again by saying it was dangerous to "mix depressants & stimulants". Which is also a lie. It's not inherently dangerous to mix the two, it's only dangerous if the person is abusing the hell out of both, not taking therapeutic doses of them.

So glad the US prioritizes war over letting Americans make their own fuckin' choices when it comes to medical care & treatment. Nothing will ever change in this stupid country.

I can kinda relate to the whole doctor thing. I had the coolest doctor before. He would give me anything I wanted, and I never took advantage of that. I picked up my subs once a month and when I needed help getting off xanax a few times he would give me a few weeks worth of lorazepam to ween. And it always worked.

But he retired and I got this new chick... she's okay I guess, both a little less experienced I would say, and a little more by the book. Anyway since I'm already on subs she said she can't give me lorazepam unless I go into the pharmacy every day to get it.

The fuck. No way I'm doing that. 1) I still have some self respect left 2) She doesn't understand the dose adjustment. Going from 8mg of alprazolam a day to 10mg of lorazepam, its such a huge drop, like I'm not well enough to go to the pharmacy every day in that situation. Its more just about taking the edge off, maybe even a bit of a placebo effect that helps.

But like what is the risk...? Am I gonna take the whole weeks worth at once? Cause I still wouldn't get high even if I did that, let alone OD or something. Ugh. Whatever. But its like she's at same clinic she has the records, she knows we've done it before... so whats the f**** problem??

Sorry just a little rant.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I'm so over the American healthcare system.

I feel like I'm trapped in purgatory daily & it's directly because of the US drug laws & the insane control they place over our bodily autonomy.

Doctors are part of the problem. They have no qualms about handing out SSRI's and antipsychotics which can cause an array of permanent symptoms & illnesses, but most are either too scared or too ignorant to give people what they actually want or need.

I'm so tired of struggling with severe depression every fucking day. I wouldn't have to if we didn't live in such an ignorant and hypocritical society.

 

[PharmaTrain]

Aaah okay, that makes sense then.


Damn, I wonder why it was so easy for you to switch to generic subutex. I asked my doctor to do the same & all she said was "well there's nothing we can do about it" (in reference to me not wanting all that crap that's in generic suboxones). I know my doc isn't stupid & I know she knows that all that shit was useless, but she acted like she couldn't switch me to generic subutex for whatever reason. I don't get it. It's bullshit.

I'm fuckin' sick of doctors. My psyche tried to lie to me twice & told me it was "illegal to prescribe stimulants with opioids" (cause I asked about using a stim for depression and I'm on subs). I called her out on that & said "no it's not, I know plenty of people on subs + stims & even full agonists + stims". And then she tried to lie again by saying it was dangerous to "mix depressants & stimulants". Which is also a lie. It's not inherently dangerous to mix the two, it's only dangerous if the person is abusing the hell out of both, not taking therapeutic doses of them.

So glad the US prioritizes war over letting Americans make their own fuckin' choices when it comes to medical care & treatment. Nothing will ever change in this stupid country.

I had to present my case against the suboxone with medical papers that favored my claim and the side effects of naloxone. Also I've given clean urine test for a very long time. But for me the problem is with the pharmacy now. They give me whatever generic they want even when the doc writes a certain brand. I never had this problem before. Honestly it all got worse when one tech started working at the pharmacy who thinks he/she can treat anyone like crap and give them substandard generics from china or India. I'm looking for a small pharmacy which cares about the customers wishes.
I want off of these meds bad but in the situation I'm in I don't see a way out besides being on a stable version of the bupe that agrees with me. I'd say for you if you want to go down the same road with bupe bring up pubmed papers and go through all the ingredients in the Suboxone that your sensitive to. Tell them your feeling like crap from the inactive ingredients and the naloxone siting case studies to back up your case. But the pharmacy will treat you different maybe...

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

I don't think so. I know the narcan does nothing, you do, the doc does, but will some random lawyer understand? Your doc is probably trying to protect themselves.

Anyway I don't know much about the US healthcare system, I hear it can be a tangled mess, but idk maybe see if you can get the pms, it still has naloxone in it... but I mean if you're having these problems, can't hurt to try, eh? It also still has a sweetener in it, and forgive me I did this research years ago so I don't remember the details exactly, but I did find ingredient lists and it was at least a different sweetener than the other ones had that were giving me the unpleasant symptoms (including the heart palpitations).

For some reason the myth prevails that the narcan does something. Around here only pregnant women get subutex. (naloxone must be bad for the pregnant?)

I suspect there were more nefarious reasons the naloxone was added. Especially as they are adding naltrexone to buprion now and samidorphan with olanzapine

Reckit beckenser (or w/e) seem like some pretty evil bastardos, that whole strip thing they tried to pull was obviously just a BS money grab to keep the patent. And they got called on it. I hated those strips too....lol

 

[PharmaTrain]

Naloxone has mad side effects. Look it up. For a stable person there is no need for this added chemical. It's a problem in itself. Some may disagree but for those who have a sensitive system to chemicals you'll know what I'm saying. Why more chemicals and inactive ingredients that give more side effects?

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I had to present my case against the suboxone with medical papers that favored my claim and the side effects of naloxone. Also I've given clean urine test for a very long time. But for me the problem is with the pharmacy now. They give me whatever generic they want even when the doc writes a certain brand. I never had this problem before. Honestly it all got worse when one tech started working at the pharmacy who thinks he/she can treat anyone like crap and give them substandard generics from china or India. I'm looking for a small pharmacy which cares about the customers wishes.
I want off of these meds bad but in the situation I'm in I don't see a way out besides being on a stable version of the bupe that agrees with me. I'd say for you if you want to go down the same road with bupe bring up pubmed papers and go through all the ingredients in the Suboxone that your sensitive to. Tell them your feeling like crap from the inactive ingredients and the naloxone siting case studies to back up your case. But the pharmacy will treat you different maybe...

Interesting.

Yeah that's what I don't understand with my doc. I've given clean urine for 8 years. I slipped up once in the first year or two & I always pee dirty for weed, but now I have a legal med card. So it's not really an issue. And I know my doc is intelligent enough to know the naloxone & artificial flavors are pointless, but she got pretty damn defensive when I brought it up last time.


My pharmacy is okay. It's a mix of people but they're mostly good.

I had one issue with this old white guy several months back. I kept getting the wrong amount every other month & I brought it up to the cashier one day & asked what was going on. It was a trans woman, very nice person. And she was just about to answer me when this old white dude came over & said "is he trying to fill that early!? we don't fill that early for NOBODY!".... I was stunned, I couldn't believe he had just said that. Just automatically assumed I was trying to pull some tricks at the pharmacy, simply for being on bupe. And thankfully this trans girl was like "no actually he's not" and stuck up for me. And when we met eyes (me & the cashier), she sort of gave me this look like she couldn't believe that. And I said to her "I don't know why anyone would WANT to fill buprenorphine early anyway lol". And then we chit chatted for a minute about how opiates are less dangerous & toxic than alcohol & many other legal substances & the unfair stigma they get. I'm sure she puts up with a lot of judging from others, so she knows how it is. That's the first & only time I've run into any issues though. Everyone else that works there is always pleasant & has never given me any shit. Although that's just with shitty generic bupe/naloxone. Maybe they might act differently though if it were subutex/generic subutex.

Haven't seen that old dude there since though & this was months ago.

 

[PharmaTrain]

Interesting.

Yeah that's what I don't understand with my doc. I've given clean urine for 8 years. I slipped up once in the first year or two & I always pee dirty for weed, but now I have a legal med card. So it's not really an issue. And I know my doc is intelligent enough to know the naloxone & artificial flavors are pointless, but she got pretty damn defensive when I brought it up last time.


My pharmacy is okay. It's a mix of people but they're mostly good.

I had one issue with this old white guy several months back. I kept getting the wrong amount every other month & I brought it up to the cashier one day & asked what was going on. It was a trans woman, very nice person. And she was just about to answer me when this old white dude came over & said "is he trying to fill that early!? we don't fill that early for NOBODY!".... I was stunned, I couldn't believe he had just said that. Just automatically assumed I was trying to pull some tricks at the pharmacy, simply for being on bupe. And thankfully this trans girl was like "no actually he's not" and stuck up for me. And when we met eyes (me & the cashier), she sort of gave me this look like she couldn't believe that. And I said to her "I don't know why anyone would WANT to fill buprenorphine early anyway lol". And then we chit chatted for a minute about how opiates are less dangerous & toxic than alcohol & many other legal substances & the unfair stigma they get. I'm sure she puts up with a lot of judging from others, so she knows how it is. That's the first & only time I've run into any issues though. Everyone else that works there is always pleasant & has never given me any shit. Although that's just with shitty generic bupe/naloxone. Maybe they might act differently though if it were subutex/generic subutex.

Haven't seen that old dude there since though & this was months ago.

Some docs are better than others no doubt. I brought up the lawsuit on Suboxone and teeth decay than using documents I found besides the strips under the microscope with those metallic particles and showed him he had no problem changing me over to the bupe only. But thats when the pharmacy started acting weird. My guess it was me wanting a generic that they didn't normally carry.