Israel is under attack

[nepalnt21]

Who is our "boss"?

it was hyperbole, debate bait... thanks for taking it lol this thread was getting all slow.

Hamas as a government is illegitimate anyways

those people have no choice but to vote for Hamas

most of them did NOT vote for hamas, well over half the country couldn't even vote back when the election was held.

But people like you have been largely silent

no, people like me have NOT, and i'll thank you to not lie about me like the old days.

about what actually started this, as if that is not the sole reason that Israel have gone to war. It is just a fact that none of this would be happening if Hamas didn't attack first.

attack first? do you know how many palestinians were killed JUST LAST YEAR, before october 7th? well into the hundreds, iirc... speaking of history.

I know you can point to posts where you've mumbled words critical of Hamas, but they are something like 3% of what you've written here.

how many times do i have to fucking condemn them? every fucking post i have to have a disclaimer? obviously your memory isn't shot, so why would i have to continue to condemn them once i have already done so a dozen times? what a stupid nonpoint you're trying to make.

 

[swilow]

how many times do i have to fucking condemn them? every fucking post i have to have a disclaimer?

My point was that you're biased.

 

[Soso78]

Biased against the killing of children.
Like any sane person should be

 

[nepalnt21]

My point was that you're biased.

i mean but like what more is there to say? it's the easiest position in the world to condemn hamas.

how am i biased? please explain your position, cause i don't really think i'm biased in the way you're implying.

 

[swilow]

i mean but like what more is there to say? it's the easiest position in the world to condemn hamas.

how am i biased? please explain your position, cause i don't really think i'm biased in the way you're implying.

You seem to think that only Israel have moral agency and should be held accountable for its crimes, while continually overlooking why they are doing what they are doing.

I don't know if you can see how intolerable it is for Israel to continue living with a genocidal regime on its border, that has massacred and kidnapped its innocent citizens, given the genocide against the Jews that almost succeeded. But if you can see that, and truly understand what and why Hamas did what it did, and yet still think that Israel are the aggressor here, in this war being fought for the reasons this war is being fought, then I have to assume bias.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

You seem to think that only Israel have moral agency and should be held accountable for its crimes, while continually overlooking why they are doing what they are doing.

I don't know if you can see how intolerable it is for Israel to continue living with a genocidal regime on its border, that has massacred and kidnapped its innocent citizens, given the genocide against the Jews that almost succeeded. But if you can see that, and truly understand what and why Hamas did what it did, and yet still think that Israel are the aggressor here, in this war being fought for the reasons this war is being fought, then I have to assume bias.

Both fucked-up factions are the damn aggressors, nothing is clearer than that

 

[nepalnt21]

You seem to think that only Israel have moral agency and should be held accountable for its crimes,

not even a little bit true. hamas bad. i've said it before.

still think that Israel are the aggressor here

i really wish you'd try and learn a tiny bit about the history of all this.

nothing can contextualize the murder of civilians, but many members of hamas weren't even born when israel (a colonial power hellbent on ethnic cleansing of everyone that isn't a white jew) poisoned palestinian wells, for example.

‘Place the material in the wells’: Docs point to Israeli army’s 1948 biological warfare

***

www.haaretz.com

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

No doubt that Israel have committed atrocities and will continue to. But people like you have been largely silent about what actually started this, as if that is not the sole reason that Israel have gone to war. It is just a fact that none of this would be happening if Hamas didn't attack first.

Couple of months ago, people will remember, this whole thread revolved around the discussion if there even were atrocities.
There were tons and nobody is denying anymore, scale keeps shifting and it will continue.

I'm glad to see some have been coming to their senses here, Israeli government is rotten to the core and it's there for everyone to see.
Good thing it's an election year for Biden

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

 

[swilow]

really wish you'd try and learn a tiny bit about the history of all this.

nothing can contextualize the murder of civilians, but many members of hamas weren't even born when israel (a colonial power hellbent on ethnic cleansing of everyone that isn't a white jew) poisoned palestinian wells, for example.

The people massacred in the various kibbutz also weren't born. There's hardly anyone left who is responsible for anything that happened during the 1948 conflict. One side literally has it baked into their culture to define themselves by an historic evil and draw the past into the present. That is just clearly a culture that has no possible future in its current guise.

Most other Arab nations who swore to destroy Israel gave that up because they saw it wasn't going to work and was only going to lead to more pointless death and destruction. Better to ally or at least tone down the enmity and try to prosper together than to divert an entire people's resources into a forever war.

I know the history, and the moral tragedy that Israel created for the native population in 1948 doesn't justify killing Israelis anymore than Jews would be justified in massacring modern day Germans. Not only does it not justify it, a cycle of violence like that is absolutely deleterious to any possible hopeful future for the people hellbent on it. Palestinian eternal violent enmity towards Israelis is strategically pointless, and morally bankrupt.

It's quite an absurd statement to claim that Israel seek to "ethnically cleanse" anyone who isn't a white Jew. A massive proportion of its population are Arabic Jews who fled Muslim persecution in surrounding nations, or already lived in the region. They are fully integrated into society, economicslly and politically although its true they had to fight for equal status.

This is just your bias to see this situation, incorrectly, through a colonial/oppressor/white supremacist lens. It's leftist antisemitism. Israel are not a colony of any European power. It is comprised of a combination of indigenous/diaspora/Arabic/refugee Jews. Israelis have no homeland to return to. They're where they are to stay. Once this is accepted, there is a chance at a future for Palestinians, and a good one too if they would ally themselves with the regions only progressive, enlightened society instead of trying to draw tighter the decadent noose of Islamic theocracy.

 

[nepalnt21]

"tHE onLy DeMOcracY In tHe mIdDLe EAsT"

 

[nepalnt21]

historic evil

it's hardly a "historic evil" when the nakba really hasn't ended.

this is an ongoing occupation and violence by a terrorist regime.

 

[Jabberwocky]

what happens if they were arrested by Palestinian police?

considering 20% of Israel is Arabs who are legally allowed to vote, I don't think that Israeli boy would have nearly the same experience if those boys fought on the other side of the border

 

[nepalnt21]

absurd statement to claim that Israel seek to "ethnically cleanse" anyone who isn't a white Jew

how is it absurd when you've got zionists in power that are literally doing ethnic cleansing right now?

the occupation of gaza and the west bank is a colonial thing by a supremacist group of zionist terrorist shitbags. this is ABSOLUTELY ethnic cleansing and we will see in the next couple years if the international court of justice says it's genocide under international law. many genocide experts and experts in international law have expressed concern that it could be, some are adamant that it is genocide.

 

[swilow]

@nepalnt21 How was Gaza occupied? It's been run by Hamas for over 15 years. Again, you just magically overlook the fact that they attacked into Israel and Israel are responding to that. It's almost like you think the attack was justified.

Indigenous groups worldwide were massacred. You're American, your ancestors did it. At a certain point, it became unreasonable for the native Americans to violently attack white Americans. Where is that nebulous line drawn?

I totally believe that Palestinians deserve a state of their own. Netanyahu is wrong in this. But he's right in attacking the current ethos and structure governing Palestinians in Gaza, because it's hateful and genocidal and has attacked innocent Israelis for decades even when israel withdrew from its territory.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

what happens if they were arrested by Palestinian police?

considering 20% of Israel is Arabs who are legally allowed to vote, I don't think that Israeli boy would have nearly the same experience if those boys fought on the other side of the border

thanks for asking. I wasn't really sure how to interpret that, I don't know much more. Also I just woke up and I don't understand anything right now.

e: I don't know why, maybe I am stupid, but I still don't get your point expressed after word "considering"

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

It's almost like you think the attack was justified.

Not really, but partly blame is upon Netanyahu and other fascist actors. Possibly also for the reason they let it happen, but I have been argumented and explained in convincing manner how could it maybe happened without Netanyahu getting to know about operation before it happened so I don't really know.

 

[nepalnt21]

Where is that nebulous line drawn?

as i have said numerous times, and as you seem to keep forgetting:

killing civilians is bad.

ironically, that is why i'm going in so hard against israel.

hamas has NOTHING on israel in terms of murdering civilians.

he's right in attacking the current ethos and structure governing Palestinians

you and i agree. israel has the right to defend itself, it has the right to take out military targets in gaza that pose a current or compelling future threat, it has the right to sneak into qatar and turkey and get the leaders of hamas.

why is israel, instead, choosing to do war crimes? why is israel making israel MORE UNSAFE for jews?

How was Gaza occupied?

it has been occupied since israel went super colonial zionist in 1967.

they "relinquished" control in the late 80s, sure... but have maintained a stranglehold on the goings and comings (including on water, etc.) and on the border (including airspace) of gaza and have been using military force to constantly remind gazans of the terrorist regime that controls the gates of the prison of gaza.

some experts call it a "siege" situation, some call it an occupation.

either way, even if you argue that it is NOT a proper occupation PRIOR to the end of 2023, it's pretty clear that israel is occupying north gaza and plans on taking the rest.

at least you don't deny that the west bank is occupied, so there's that...

 

[mal3volent]

how the bluelight idf mouthpieces getting along? your boss told you the talking point yet?

you sound desperate and paranoid when you speak like this, please stop.

I've said everything there is to say over and over again. No one here condones every action of the IDF or every IDF soldier. But you know that already.

 

[nepalnt21]

you sound desperate and paranoid

as i said before, it was hyperbole. bait.

i meant it tongue-in-cheek. with text you don't get my tone and smirk, lot's lost.

No one here condones every action of the IDF

well i should hope not... but there have been a few that have denied the simple fact of war crimes and have even justified or tried to explain away said war crimes... also a few of you have outright dissmissed the ethnic cleansing allegations, even in the face of blatant public statements and actions.