EADD Heroin thread v.XXV -- a quarter centuary of threads if not yet a full decade since the 'drought'...

[Jnowhere]

That is

Given that 1kg of opium yields approx 100g of heroin that would be errr still pretty cheap from source seeing that a kg landed here is 15-20k

Cheap, in American several times that, till fent. No more real junk.

 

[Señor Moreno]

Well it's the case - the EMCDDA discovered that the average age of the H on the streets if Europe was seven years in a 2021 study. So either it TAKES seven years just to reach Europe or it was stored. I admit, I didn't look into the methodology in detail but there are a number of methods to find the age of plant matter. Their are also documentary films that detail how H gets from Afghanistan to Europe and at every stage people seek to maintain the price and so will hold material to ensure that the value doesn't collapse.

I don't think anyone will disagree that under the invasion, it was one bumper crop after another and the Kg price WAS dropping, Their is certainly EMCDDA data showing increased purity and lowering of bulk price year on year.

It's always been seen as a long-term business. A LOT of planning ahead goes into it.

^^100%

 

[Jnowhere]

^^100%

I really hope the fentanyl nightmare doesn't hit Europe

 

[Jnowhere]

Very strong opioiod that finding its was into street H as a cutting agent to make shit strong.
But dealers aren't mixing it properly and people are dying. Seems to be a large UK problem but is it found anywhere else?

Never heard of it till brought up here. We have a fentanyl nightmare and so does Canada. Somehow Mexico doesn't have the same level of issues, not sure? Maybe they know better?

 

[Jnowhere]

Well it's the case - the EMCDDA discovered that the average age of the H on the streets if Europe was seven years in a 2021 study. So either it TAKES seven years just to reach Europe or it was stored. I admit, I didn't look into the methodology in detail but there are a number of methods to find the age of plant matter. Their are also documentary films that detail how H gets from Afghanistan to Europe and at every stage people seek to maintain the price and so will hold material to ensure that the value doesn't collapse.

I don't think anyone will disagree that under the invasion, it was one bumper crop after another and the Kg price WAS dropping, Their is certainly EMCDDA data showing increased purity and lowering of bulk price year on year.

It's always been seen as a long-term business. A LOT of planning ahead goes into it.

That's why it is called Organized crime. Lol

 

[blondin]

A tale of two baggies...went to my fella yesterday and picked up a couple of bags. When I got back one looked smaller than the other so dashed it on the foil and proceeded..it probably had about 10% obv cut which left a blackened trail until I burned it off and I was pretty disappointed as I've not had anything similar for years. BUT after running a dozen lines I was pleasantly surprised, well actually delighted. A couple of hours later I unpicked the larger balloon and crushed in to powder to burn the cut off except there was none just the normal pukka gear he always has. Nodded out all afternoon and barely slept, full body itch and only smoked half of it, just done the rest and leave for work at 7am. I think I'm the only London BL on here but it would be interesting to contrast and compare quality.
He's giving me a couple on the house next time I go down as the cut one was from one of his runners trying to make a bit extra...he wasnt best pleased.

 

[AlsoTapered]

A tale of two baggies...went to my fella yesterday and picked up a couple of bags. When I got back one looked smaller than the other so dashed it on the foil and proceeded..it probably had about 10% obv cut which left a blackened trail until I burned it off and I was pretty disappointed as I've not had anything similar for years. BUT after running a dozen lines I was pleasantly surprised, well actually delighted. A couple of hours later I unpicked the larger balloon and crushed in to powder to burn the cut off except there was none just the normal pukka gear he always has. Nodded out all afternoon and barely slept, full body itch and only smoked half of it, just done the rest and leave for work at 7am. I think I'm the only London BL on here but it would be interesting to contrast and compare quality.
He's giving me a couple on the house next time I go down as the cut one was from one of his runners trying to make a bit extra...he wasnt best pleased.

Yeah - I remembered that etonitazine is used in research. It has no taste at the dilutions used in animal models.

But then I realized that it's used so widely that it would have to have a similar duration of action to be a valid substitute.

So while fentanyl doesn't represent a reasonable heroin/morphine substitute, etonitazine is evidently a closer match.

There are actually many more potent BDPC derivatives than most people seem to appreciate and so when the nitazenes and their (very distinctive) precursors are controlled, BDPC derivatives would likely be the logical next step. Ring-substitution of the cyclohexanol ring hasn't been directly studied (although related compounds hint at increased activity).

Their is a totally different strategy but now the model of acquiring grey-market precursors from China is becoming established and so I presume that synthetics would follow that path.

 

[Jnowhere]

Yeah - I remembered that etonitazine is used in research. It has no taste at the dilutions used in animal models.

But then I realized that it's used so widely that it would have to have a similar duration of action to be a valid substitute.

So while fentanyl doesn't represent a reasonable heroin/morphine substitute, etonitazine is evidently a closer match.

There are actually many more potent BDPC than most people seem to appreciate and so when the nitazenes and their (very distinctive) precursors are controlled, BDPC derivatives would likely be the logical next step.

Their is a totally different strategy but now the model of acquiring grey-market precursors from China is becoming established and so I presume that synthetics would follow that path.

The basic problem is that heroin addicts(I have never messed with it) when given fentanyl will take it over heroin even though the duration is shorter, the high is cold but much more powerful, and given the choice will go to fent. over heroin and the effects are more addictive, even though less euphoric. It is bizarre that the addict could so easily switch but once introduced, they overwhelming choose the greater of the two( relatively speaking evils) why? There is a something to said for the power of a high even though less euphoric and shorter in duration, more powerful, thus rendering heroin obsolete in their eyes. The addictive qualities out weigh the euphoric ones. Thus you have addicts who are easily transitioned into fent addicts and only that will satisfy their craving.
It isn't like alcohol( myself an ex alcoholic, because I can not physically consume it anymore, no matter how bad I want it) I could take beer as easily as hard liquor and eventually get to the same place of intoxication. Where as all opiates or opiods have a limit and one will die before they reach the same level of opiod high as fentanyl. Thus rendering heroin obsolete in their eyes.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I know quire a few people in the UK who have knowingly sampled fentanyl and it's derivatives. Not one of them considered those compounds to be anywhere nearly as good as heroin. It's not like the introduction of fentanyl derivatives wasn't attempted - it just didn't work out.

But the nitazenes seem to be accepted. Reports are generally positive. It's got the potency and it's got the duration. So far nobody seems to have really understood the QSAR because while etonitazene is kind of presumed to be the most potent homologue, it's not.

 

[elgoucho9]

I know quire a few people in the UK who have knowingly sampled fentanyl and it's derivatives. Not one of them considered those compounds to be anywhere nearly as good as heroin. It's not like the introduction of fentanyl derivatives wasn't attempted - it just didn't work out.

But the nitazenes seem to be accepted. Reports are generally positive. It's got the potency and it's got the duration. So far nobody seems to have really understood the QSAR because while etonitazene is kind of presumed to be the most potent homologue, it's not.

Maybe the effects are similar. And i'm sure it works when the people who actually know what they are doing with it make the solution or spray it into powder in the correct manner.

The issue is once this school of thought is accepted. Every idiot roadman is going to be attempting to make their own and pass it off as heroin. Which is going to result in alot of deaths.

I've heard rumors it's already in opiate pills here in the UK. However when i checked Wedinos i failed to find any evidence of this, aside from it being in some benzodiazepine tablets and batches of heroin.

 

[axe battler]

Maybe the effects are similar. And i'm sure it works when the people who actually know what they are doing with it make the solution or spray it into powder in the correct manner.

The issue is once this school of thought is accepted. Every idiot roadman is going to be attempting to make their own and pass it off as heroin. Which is going to result in alot of deaths.

I've heard rumors it's already in opiate pills here in the UK. However when i checked Wedinos i failed to find any evidence of this, aside from it being in some benzodiazepine tablets.

Yuuuup,, it's easily finding its way into the hands of idiots or psychopaths sho.domr give a shit I'd their customers die. Some of.them peopbably think it's fairly amusing. Cunts

 

[AlsoTapered]

Well, we have a few reports and people initially found the nitazenes 'odd' with the subjective effects waxing and waning over the period of intoxication but I asked about duration and it was reported that four hours after smoking, the effects were still evident.

'Odd' is the term I keep reading but one guy was driving to get 70 bags. I would have thought simply selling someone a seven gram deal but I can only presume it was already weighed out.

Whoever is buying the stuff is currently going to be the single most sought-after dealer in the nation.

 

[elgoucho9]

Your last few posts read like an advert to dealers to buy Nitazenes

If i was a dealer i wouldn't get involved with drugs like that or you'll wind up with deaths on your hands and Law Enforcement hunting you down.

Remember the first guy who brough Fentanyl to the UK and sold on the darkweb. Here's what happened to him:

Drug dealer using dark web to sell fentanyl jailed for over 13 years

Police describe the case as first of its kind because of the sophisticated use of technology to sell class A drugs

www.theguardian.com

Several people died of the Fentanyl. Though they couldn't prove it linked directly back to him or he'd have got alot longer. Despite his encrypted messages he confessed he 'must have a body count".

Fuck all these opiod analogues and the people selling them.

 

[Jnowhere]

Well, we have a few reports and people initially found the nitazenes 'odd' with the subjective effects waxing and waning over the period of intoxication but I asked about duration and it was reported that four hours after smoking, the effects were still evident.

'Odd' is the term I keep reading but one guy was driving to get 70 bags. I would have thought simply selling someone a seven gram deal but I can only presume it was already weighed out.

Whoever is buying the stuff is currently going to be the single most sought-after dealer in the nation.

That may be one of those localized,(UK) things. And yea better to have same quantity in one bag if caught, at least in America, but probably there also. Different areas have different issues, besides the UK is an island and has a high population density, so news would travel fast among those circles to others pretty fast.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Your last few posts read like an advert to dealers to buy Nitazenes

If i was a dealer i wouldn't get involved with drugs like that or you'll wind up with deaths on your hands and Law Enforcement hunting you down.

Remember the first guy who brough Fentanyl to the UK and sold on the darkweb. Here's what happened to him:

Drug dealer using dark web to sell fentanyl jailed for over 13 years

Police describe the case as first of its kind because of the sophisticated use of technology to sell class A drugs

www.theguardian.com

Several people died of the Fentanyl. Though they couldn't prove it linked directly back to him or he'd have got alot longer. Despite his encrypted messages he confessed he 'must have a body count".

Fuck all these opiod analogues and the people selling them.

I specifically stated that nitazenes appear to be highly-potent superagonists and thus were essentially a 'one way street' in terms of dependence. That opioid substitution therapy probably wouldn't be effective. I wouldn't describe that as a whole-hearted recommendation.

I also posted a link to the arrests of people who were producing fake diazepam tablets that contained nitazenes. So it's just like the case of fentanyl - the people selling it become the highest priority for law enforcement.

In the US George Marquandt did everything he could to produce a product that was INTENDED to be an active-cut for large-scale H dealers and indeed he was only caught when one or more dealer figured it was cheaper and simpler just to sell HIS product (aMF) and although it still took two years to find him, It it appears he spent almost 30 years in jail.

More recently Canadian law enforcement found someone who had about 15Kg of carfentanil and I imagine that individual is also going to spend decades inside because what he was doing wasn't just illegal, it was essentially driving people down that one way street.

I can't grasp that level of greed. As most sensible chemists seem to agree - if a product is too potent to safely eyeball, it's just too dangerous. U-47700 was supposed to be made into 5mg tablets but greed saw it sold as a powder.

Aim for something less potent because people NOT dying is not only better morally, it's also just common sense.

 

[elgoucho9]

I specifically stated that nitazenes appear to be highly-potent superagonists and thus were essentially a 'one way street' in terms of dependence. That opioid substitution therapy probably wouldn't be effective. I wouldn't describe that as a whole-hearted recommendation.

I also posted a link to the arrests of people who were producing fake diazepam tablets that contained nitazenes. So it's just like the case of fentanyl - the people selling it become the highest priority for law enforcement.

In the US George Marquandt did everything he could to produce a product that was INTENDED to be an active-cut for large-scale H dealers and indeed he was only caught when one or more dealer figured it was cheaper and simpler just to sell HIS product (aMF) and although it still took two years to find him, It it appears he spent almost 30 years in jail.

More recently Canadian law enforcement found someone who had about 15Kg of carfentanil and I imagine that individual is also going to spend decades inside because what he was doing wasn't just illegal, it was essentially driving people down that one way street.

I can't grasp that level of greed. As most sensible chemists seem to agree - if a product is too potent to safely eyeball, it's just too dangerous. U-47700 was supposed to be made into 5mg tablets but greed saw it sold as a powder.

Aim for something less potent because people NOT dying is not only better morally, it's also just common sense.

I was joking with you man

Yeah, I've noticed there seems to be no UK supplier selling them. And for good reason.

I can imagine they are a one way street in terms of dependence. I had a friend who went down the route of taking Fentanyl. He was buying pre made mixed Fent sprayed onto manitol powder or something similar. He was a heavy heroin user and did it in a poorly thought attempt to save himself money. Well when the fentanyl mix ran out. 15 x bags of heroin in a day wouldn't hold the withdrawals even.
I imagine in the same way certain Nitazene analogues have the potential to be even worse. Like the ones with a potency of 1500x Morphine.

I think in the original days of the markets, drugs like Fentanyl were banned. I'm not even sure Heroin was allowed on the original SilkRoad initially. Now it seems a bit Wild West with all these Nitazene analogues, as I believe many of the Chinese suppliers who sell them don't even give out any information about dose. And as you said that European one don't know which analogue they've made. Pretty big difference between having something that is 100x M in potency, vs 1500x in potency, when the reality is like Fentanyl and Carfentanyl, the analogues have vastly different potencies.

Like what you say with George Marquant there. When these kind of drugs are used to try and fake less strong opiates like Heroin, it seems to neigh on always end in complete disaster. Dead bodies pile up and the person behind it all winds up with enough heat from Law Enforcement to fry an egg on their chin.

I saw that with the Carfentanyl in Canada. There is alot of debate just now particularly among US people whether some of these analogues are actually to be considered recreational drugs, or bioweapons from the Chinese to kill off Western citizens. It is definitely operating on a fine line and quite debatable given the death toll in the US/Canada.

 

[Bleaney]

I was interested to learn that these mega potent opioids do have a legitimate reason for their invention and existence - for aneasthatising huge mammals like Rhinos and elephants etc.

Otherwise, they would effectively be WMDs, with no reason to exist.

I doubt the end users are deliberately deciding or wanting that they want to be using these type of drugs for recreational purposes, more like they are getting introduced into the chain at some level by unsrcupulous dealers, and if they have addictions their choice may be between opiods of unknown contents and strength, or nothing at all. From what I gather the effects don't translate into a good experience.

Although that doesnt seem to be affecting users in areas like Kensington, Philadelphia, where Tranq is devastating the areas' addicts. The state of the place on all the you tube vids etc is like post apocolypse.

I gather tranq is a mixture of xylazine and opioids of unknown types and strengths..

 

[steewith2ees]

Out of the few numbers I still have, I only make use of 2 - the first being a connection I have maintained for 18 winters now after one of my closest friends first hooked me up with them during the second year of my original habit. While faces have changed and individuals periodically receive substantial custodial sentences, the enterprise is so ingrained in the local social fabric that they are genuinely good at what they do, selling what I always consider "pre 2010" quality heroin.

The second lot are running for some kid, a reasonably sound lad who's things are always decent (his whites are proper bellringers half the time) and will drive out to me. The gear last week, while moderately strong, did not taste or feel like heroin and as such I would assume was at least adulterated with nitazenes of some description if it had any heroin in at all. It both cooked up and ran like GC sourced brown heroin but was pretty underwhelming especially in DOA.

I visited my OG number this morning and for at least the time being, the bees were not only standard but extra golden. Its the first lick I have had this year if we are to assume the stuff I was sold last Monday was sus - I got hold of a strip of 100mg Zomorphs last weekend and they were lovely as fuck but, as someone who just eats them (breaking the time release matrix to shoot them is pointless as despite getting a massive rush of histamine it still does not hit you in 30 seconds like proper 'orse) I need half a gram at a time to get a nod from them, the result being that a strip of 10 is just 2 doses to me.

Anyway, time for another whizzle to wake me back up again as I have films for this afternoon and 2 beautiful brews to smoke while watching them, Sour Orange Diesel and Mimosa. My dad hasn't tried the Mimosa yet so I am going to see if he is up for some matinee cinema (I have Ridley's Napoleon and Anatomy of a Fall to watch for the first time).

 

[fastandbulbous]

I was interested to learn that these mega potent opioids do have a legitimate reason for their invention and existence - for aneasthatising huge mammals like Rhinos and elephants etc.

Otherwise, they would effectively be WMDs, with no reason to exist.

I doubt the end users are deliberately deciding or wanting that they want to be using these type of drugs for recreational purposes, more like they are getting introduced into the chain at some level by unsrcupulous dealers, and if they have addictions their choice may be between opiods of unknown contents and strength, or nothing at all. From what I gather the effects don't translate into a good experience.

Although that doesnt seem to be affecting users in areas like Kensington, Philadelphia, where Tranq is devastating the areas' addicts. The state of the place on all the you tube vids etc is like post apocolypse.

I gather tranq is a mixture of xylazine and opioids of unknown types and strengths..

It's not inconceivable that Burma holds huge stockpiles of heroin, after all, N Korea is a huge exporter of meth. Rogue states need a source of income to keep the military dictatorship in place.

As regards carfentanyl, it is considered a terrorist weapon over a drug source, so possession of large amounts will get punished with extremely long prison terms (after all, the effective dose of carfentanyl & ohmifentanyl is 1ug - that is a weapon, as demonstrated in the Russian theatre seige)

 

[dsd]

A tale of two baggies...went to my fella yesterday and picked up a couple of bags. When I got back one looked smaller than the other so dashed it on the foil and proceeded..it probably had about 10% obv cut which left a blackened trail until I burned it off and I was pretty disappointed as I've not had anything similar for years. BUT after running a dozen lines I was pleasantly surprised, well actually delighted. A couple of hours later I unpicked the larger balloon and crushed in to powder to burn the cut off except there was none just the normal pukka gear he always has. Nodded out all afternoon and barely slept, full body itch and only smoked half of it, just done the rest and leave for work at 7am. I think I'm the only London BL on here but it would be interesting to contrast and compare quality.
He's giving me a couple on the house next time I go down as the cut one was from one of his runners trying to make a bit extra...he wasnt best pleased.

Look I'm going to be honest with you.
How come you are always getting pukka gear, gear that gets you nodding and itching. Even though you've been on it for decades.
You was called out on it all the way back to the great drought in 2010. Even made your name famous, the blondin scale. Because everyone was getting 0/10 and you 9/10.

How you getting pukka nodding gear all the time ( in bag amounts)when I'm on the other side of London and great stuff is so rarely given. Mainly ok to " it's good '.
Never mind I'm probably sour as things have been bad to worse , around here since new year.