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Israel is under attack

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mal3volent said:
What can I say? You got me.
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It's easy and super spiritual to just not support any team! Do it now

Explanation of insult: Your original comment was intended to categorically dismiss all your opponents i.e non Israel supporters. When i pointed out by example that your categories weren't exhaustive, you added more negative sounding categories (contrarian, misanthropic) to supplement them. In this context, it's a clear and obvious insult and your failure to understand this is an exhibit of bias. You are far from alone in revealing bias through startling omissions of cognition.
 
swilow said:
6 million/2000 years worth of reason. You seem more understanding of the Nakba than you do the Holocaust which says it all.

Just consider that nearly every European nation expelled the Jews at one time or another, and that Britain and allies knew the Holocaust was underway. The US of the era was a genuinely racially divided nation. You can't truly claim the Jews were going to feel safe in the country that segregated previously enslaved blacks AND knew the Holocaust was raging and turned refugees away.
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You seem to be implying that the people who were on that land weren't there historically just as long if not longer. Also 6 million years? I'd like to see some citations.

Jewish people were a minority in the region and the Arab Jews and the Palestinians are the descendants of the same groups of people who have occupied the region. The thing that would have made sense would have been to create a state where the entire population was treated equally not to create an apartheid state but that didn't happen. Instead forcing people out of their homes and continually oppressing them has radicalized people over time, and they can still fix it by changing the way people are treated by the state of Israel. But I've already said this in this thread at least 5 times yet it seems to fall on plugged ears
 
Mjäll said:
It's easy and super spiritual to just not support any team! Do it now

Explanation of insult: Your original comment was intended to categorically dismiss all your opponents i.e non Israel supporters. When i pointed out by example that your categories weren't exhaustive, you added more negative sounding categories (contrarian, misanthropic) to supplement them. In this context, it's a clear and obvious insult and your failure to understand this is an exhibit of bias. You are far from alone in revealing bias through startling omissions of cognition.
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Contrarian and misanthrope are not insults. I am both at times, I think most of us are. I was not trying to dismiss anything. It was a recognition that I had indeed left out a category that I feel you belong to when it comes to this discussion. Which is something to the effect of "a bunch of religious people killing each other in the desert, people on the internet cheering their side for entertainment". I consider that a contrarian take. From someone who rather than engage in the discussion wants to stand outside of it and criticize the discussion itself. Is this not accurate?
 
someguyontheinternet said:
But it has become obvious to me that there are individuals who can't seem to grasp the concept of Zionism being different than Judaism so they go around shouting "but you're on the same side as those antisemites, that makes you antisemitic!" It's absurd
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It is absurd. Guilt by association which, let's face it, has been an absolute hallmark of the modern left, is ridiculous. The argument I guess is that if you find yourself agreeing with literal Nazis, it may be time to pause a second and reconsider. It was a bad argument when it was levelled at anyone who questioned the mass waves of immigration in 2015/2016 because fascists were also opposed to it for racial reasons, it's a bad argument now. Maybe this will give some leftists a moment of reflection.

Either way, I'm not too sure that applies particularly well here. This is less about sharing a few fragments of ideology with some bad people, it's about Western antizionists tacitly supporting the murder of Jews by commitedly and openly antisemitic terrorists.
 
mal3volent said:
Contrarian and misanthrope are not insults. I am both at times, I think most of us are. I was not trying to dismiss anything. It was a recognition that I had indeed left out a category that I feel you belong to when it comes to this discussion. Which is something to the effect of "a bunch of religious people killing each other in the desert, people on the internet cheering their side for entertainment". I consider that a contrarian take. From someone who rather than engage in the discussion wants to stand outside of it and criticize the discussion itself. Is this not accurate?
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You're right in a sense, but it becomes a label which isn't warranted. To be contrarian in one issue isn't meaningfully described as some kind of camp of opinion or psychology. Same thing with misanthropy. To be disappointed and disillusioned with both sides in a debate could be described as an emanation of misanthropy but could just be that the debate is dumb and horrible, nothing with the person commenting having a generally misanthropic view.

I do believe they are insults but i'm not offended and i see where you're coming from and i might have agreed at a previous time.
 
swilow said:
It is absurd. Guilt by association which, let's face it, has been an absolute hallmark of the modern left, is ridiculous. The argument I guess is that if you find yourself agreeing with literal Nazis, it may be time to pause a second and reconsider. It was a bad argument when it was levelled at anyone who questioned the mass waves of immigration in 2015/2016 because fascists were also opposed to it for racial reasons, it's a bad argument now. Maybe this will give some leftists a moment of reflection.

Either way, I'm not too sure that applies particularly well here. This is less about sharing a few fragments of ideology with some bad people, it's about Western antizionists tacitly supporting the murder of Jews by commitedly and openly antisemitic terrorists.
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I was talking about this. You're doing it in this post. Antizionism is not the same as supporting the mass killing of Jewish people. That's a completely insane conclusion to draw
 
swilow said:
My point was that justifying the actions of Hamas IS the same as supporting the mass killing of Jewish people.
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I'm not justifying the actions of Hamas, Hamas is terrible and what they've done is terrible. My point is that Israel's actions are what created the environment for extremism to flourish and they can fix it but they won't. Again, I've said this numerous times. Israel needs to stop mass murdering civilians and roll back the laws that create the apartheid state
 
someguyontheinternet said:
Oh its only murder when one side does it. Got it
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There is a difference between collateral damage and hacking people's heads off. You're just being obtuse if you refuse to see that.

Tbh, I hate the term collateral damage. It's like the ultimate sanitisation of killed humans. It's an awful term to describe an awful real phenomenon. But the motivations for an action are important in understanding that action. Israel are clearly not killing Palestinians because they want to. Hamas OTOH are killing Jews because they're Jews. That's a different thing.
 
Collateral damage from bombing tunnels that won't get damaged from the bombs? From bombing the top of a multistory building because it might have tunnels under it? What, is the building going to somehow collapse into the tunnel? Its absurd to look at the way Israel is doing things and genuinely think they're trying to actually go after Hamas.
 
someguyontheinternet said:
Its absurd to look at the way Israel is doing things and genuinely think they're trying to actually go after Hamas.
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It's absurd that you think Israel are intentionally targeting civilians. There is literally no evidence of this. Having to bend the truth to make an argument implies that your argument is flawed. It's actually totally legitimate to say that they are killing too many civilians with their tactics- I don't know if I could disagree. But you keep trying paint them as murderous thugs like Hamas because you need a reason to morally justify your support for Hamas. It's nonsensical and dishonest.
 
swilow said:
It's absurd that you think Israel are intentionally targeting civilians. There is literally no evidence of this. Having to bend the truth to make an argument implies that your argument is flawed. It's actually totally legitimate to say that they are killing too many civilians with their tactics- I don't know if I could disagree. But you keep trying paint them as murderous thugs like Hamas because you need a reason to morally justify your support for Hamas. It's nonsensical and dishonest.
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I've already explained that I do not support Hamas and their actions. I am here because I think Israel's actions are atrocious and far worse than what Hamas has done. So why do you think bombing a multistory civilian building that's above a tunnel will kill the people inside the tunnel?

Actions speak louder than words and the actions that Israel has been taken has resulted in the deaths of thousands of civilians and children
 
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nypost.com

Family of freed Israeli hostage Danielle Aloni says letter praising Hamas is ‘propaganda’

Danielle Aloni and her daughter, Emilia, were released from Hamas captivity on Friday.
nypost.com nypost.com

Relatives of an Israeli mom freed from Hamas captivity are warning the public not to believe a letter that the terror group claims she wrote — dismissing the note that praised the terrorists’ treatment of her young daughter as “propaganda.”

Their warning comes after the Hamas-affiliated Shebab News Agency released a letter Monday supposedly penned by Danielle Aloni, which praised the terrorists for their “extraordinary humanity” towards her 5-year-old daughter, Emilia.

“Kids shouldn’t be in prison, but thanks to you and other kind people we met along the way…My daughter considered herself a queen in Gaza,” the letter – which was published in Hebrew and Arabic – read.

It is not clear if Danielle wrote the note of her own free will, or if she was forced to pen the gushing tribute – which also said she would “always be captive to gratitude” because her daughter did not leave captivity with “psychological shock.”

Danielle’s cousin, Liam Adam, quickly rebuked the contents of the letter on social media.

“Hamas just published more propaganda of my family,” he wrote on Instagram Stories Monday.

“In the note. [Danielle] thanks them for being so gracious and kind to her and Amelia [sic] while they f—ing kept her captive in a tunnel???? This is propaganda,” he continued.

“Unfortunately I know many out there will try to use this in Hamas’ defense. Don’t believe them!”
 
^ if any of you follow the propaganda mill on Twitter, you'll know this was reposted on every pro Israel post for days now. Along with the videos of the happy go lucky hostages being released with scared smiles on their faces.
 
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