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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Israel is under attack

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* "From the river to the sea" is a stale leftist battle cry, perfect for pathetic LARPy pseudo-demonstrations. Leftist people have been pretending to care about Palestine for decades. It gets really old. If you wanna show-off goodness, make it believable. They're muslims. They're not your allies. You're being useful idiots. Stop it now.

* Israel is a nation created to appease an archaic religion and deserves no support from the secular western world. Every american who sides with Israel has misunderstood something and is acting out of pure unscrutinized emotional programming. Stop it now.

* No-one has to pick a side in what is effectively just cruel nature running its course. Get a real hobby.
 
You know, I think the most surprising thing out of this entire saga is that somehow Roger Waters hasn't shown up and said something about it all.
 
Dude you need to take your mad ravings/conspiracy talk to the Dive...
I didn't realize that using evidence from confirmed police reports was "mad ravings". It's factual and documented so is that what you mean by conspiracy?
I guess this is the BL version of shadow-banning, moving opinions we don't like to the designated crazy bin.

Nice to see you are in lockstep with The Squad. From the river to the sea is widely used as a genocidal battle cry of Hamas and other terrorist sympathizers.
I'm in lock step with the Squad because I pointed out that Marc Lamont Hill was fired for speaking at the UN about Palestinians? Leap of logic there.

the man you promoted in the thread said there would be "lockdowns like we've never seen" , "the implementation of digital currency by the powers that be", and catastrophic food shortages. before the end of 2022.

its almost 2024. 🤔
I don't believe I gave specific dates. I'm pleased that certain predictions haven't eventuated yet and I hope that they do not. I'll be pleased to be wrong.
Worth remembering not to conflate speculative predictions with legitimate political analysis in order to try and discredit someone entirely.

so basically anyone who brings up Hamas suddenly supports murdering innocent people now?
Not Hamas but a poll like that which claims the vast majority of Palestinians support Hamas.
Hamas has been designated a terrorist group so they're trying to make the claim that any supporters of a terrorist group are basically terrorists themselves so they can be justifiably killed in airstrikes.

The moral defenses are getting very thin. That's why when some are simply asking for basic human rights for a group of people, the defenders attempt to quickly pigeonhole them as supporters of a terrorist group. Really bizarre stuff.
 
The reason why they were so brazen to be celebrating in public is the same reason that they were quietly released by the FBI without charge a few weeks later - the institutional power that Israel enjoyed in the US.
Assumption based on nothing. It also doesn't square the circle - I don't care how much power you think Israel enjoys, intelligence assets don't get themselves caught bloody celebrating the worst terrorist attack in history they (may) have been involved in. That is the dumbest thing about you (and many other people) making assumptions regarding these men.
The posts I'm reading above are just snide name-calling and avoiding the facts. October 7 was a military failure so unbelievable that the only real plausible explanation is that they let it happen on purpose. And now we're seeing reports of IDF soldiers being told in advance and to keep quiet, and also the IDF actually shooting civilians and attacking the cars of the partygoers.
No, it's not the only real plausible explanation. You're making assumptions based around a preconceived belief about Israel/Zionist power that automatically stops your thinking from even contemplating any possibilities outside of this narrow frame.

As for the second part, this is even dumber than your assumptions about the dancing Israeli's in NYC. You do realise the IDF is comprised mainly of young conscripts, yes? Do you really, like really believe that they would actively shoot people they probably know either directly or through friends - Israel isn't a huge population. You're actually trying to insinuate here that they conspired to murder their own when there is a mountain of evidence of Hamas doing the killing.

I can believe they inadvertently hit their own while trying to dispose of terrorists in an active situation. Friendly fire happens in chaotic situations. But what you're insinuating is way beyond that and it's fucking ridiculous, it's David Icke level of ridiculous, and it annoys me because you make anyone who raises questions look like a fucking idiot by extension.

The irony is of course that you think you've just done your own thinking, but in actuality you're just promoting propaganda from the Arab players who want to stir up anti-Zionist sentiment by pushing unsubstantiated rubbish.
 
I didn't realize that using evidence from confirmed police reports was "mad ravings". It's factual and documented so is that what you mean by conspiracy?
I guess this is the BL version of shadow-banning, moving opinions we don't like to the designated crazy bin.

Yeah, shadow banning means having different forums that have different standards of discussion.
I didn't know it was factual and documented that the Jews did 9/11 and Oct 7... huh learn something new everyday I guess.

I'm in lock step with the Squad because I pointed out that Marc Lamont Hill was fired for speaking at the UN about Palestinians? Leap of logic there.

No, you're in lockstep with them because you parrot the phrase used by Hamas and other terrorists. It's okay... a lot of people become strange bedfellows when it comes to hating Israel. 🤔 (so not really a leap of logic on my part, just you misunderstanding a clear point I made)

I don't believe I gave specific dates. I'm pleased that certain predictions haven't eventuated yet and I hope that they do not. I'll be pleased to be wrong.
Worth remembering not to conflate speculative predictions with legitimate political analysis in order to try and discredit someone entirely.

That's a whole lot of backpedaling there.
 
intelligence assets don't get themselves caught bloody celebrating the worst terrorist attack in history they (may) have been involved in. That is the dumbest thing about you (and many other people) making assumptions regarding these men.
But they DID get caught. I'll say it for the 3rd time, there are detailed police reports describing everything I've said (and much more).
It's possible that they were not involved but the fact is that they were positioned in a good spot before the first plane hit and then were visibly happy and excited when it happened.
And they were registered to a shell company called Urban Moving Systems which had ties to Israeli intelligence. I find it bizarre that someone is almost caught red-handed and your analysis is "they wouldn't have ever been caught red-handed".

No, it's not the only real plausible explanation. You're making assumptions based around a preconceived belief about Israel/Zionist power that automatically stops your thinking from even contemplating any possibilities outside of this narrow frame.
It's based on a knowledge of the Israeli military. I have family members who served, I've read and listened to accounts from ex-IDF about how exactly the Gaza perimeter is set up and enforced. There are ex-IDF and even family members of the taken hostages who are criticizing the Israeli military and demanding an investigation as to how it could happen.


As for the second part, this is even dumber than your assumptions about the dancing Israeli's in NYC. You do realise the IDF is comprised mainly of young conscripts, yes? Do you really, like really believe that they would actively shoot people they probably know either directly or through friends - Israel isn't a huge population. You're actually trying to insinuate here that they conspired to murder their own when there is a mountain of evidence of Hamas doing the killing.
You're the one making assumptions now in order to try and discredit what's not only a legitimate theory, but is now bolstered by eyewitness accounts.
If this were to have happened in the way described then it would have been a small, elite-level team of vetted specialists.

I can believe they inadvertently hit their own while trying to dispose of terrorists in an active situation. Friendly fire happens in chaotic situations. But what you're insinuating is way beyond that and it's fucking ridiculous, it's David Icke level of ridiculous, and it annoys me because you make anyone who raises questions look like a fucking idiot by extension.
They knew hostages were in specific buildings that they targeted with airstrikes. I thought bringing back the hostages was paramount here?
The IDF can implement what's known as the Hannibal Directive.

The irony is of course that you think you've just done your own thinking, but in actuality you're just promoting propaganda from the Arab players who want to stir up anti-Zionist sentiment by pushing unsubstantiated rubbish.
See? Just has to resort to the anti-Zionist propaganda smear.
You're not actually going after the evidence or making factual rebuttals, it's just ad homs and insults.
And I know for a fact that I've done my own thinking lol, as I used to be firm believer in the zionist narrative and the justifications for the actions of the IDF. However over time, I was forced to be honest with myself and re-evaluate the situation.
 
But they DID get caught. I'll say it for the 3rd time, there are detailed police reports describing everything I've said (and much more).
It's possible that they were not involved but the fact is that they were positioned in a good spot before the first plane hit and then were visibly happy and excited when it happened.
And they were registered to a shell company called Urban Moving Systems which had ties to Israeli intelligence. I find it bizarre that someone is almost caught red-handed and your analysis is "they wouldn't have ever been caught red-handed".
Dude, I'm aware of all of this. You're not listening. WHY would intelligence assets ALLOW themselves to get caught celebrating in the first instance. WHY is it only Israeli's/Jews that ever allow themselves to get publicly exposed. This is not how intelligence operatives do business, the whole point of espionage is to maintain cover in order to infiltrate. Once you're exposed as an asset your career is over, and possibly your life.
You're the one making assumptions now in order to try and discredit what's not only a legitimate theory, but is now bolstered by eyewitness accounts.
If this were to have happened in the way described then it would have been a small, elite-level team of vetted specialists.
Legitimate theory. So how do you want to explain all the videos from Hamas operatives filming the events on the day? I presume you're going to say they're all staged and CGI composites? Listen to yourself mate, you're actually insinuating that Israeli's would willingly murder hundreds of their own in cold blood.. for what? Just for a pretext to take Gaza? Are you high? If they really cared about Gaza that much they would just annex or glass the place without a second thought and not go through this elaborate charade you're suggesting here.

Your thinking is far too black and white. The fact is that neither of us know what the hell is going on at the intelligence level, domestically or internationally. I don't care if it's 7th October or 9/11, we don't know for sure what is really going on. Yes, there's suspicious shit and legitimate questions to be asked, for both events, but you can't make proclamations about either when the fact is you don't know. You're far too eager to craft an unproven hypothesis in order to fit your own perceptions and beliefs.. an 'elite-level team' of Israeli's are not going to murder hundreds of Israeli's, just no.
 
Yeah, shadow banning means having different forums that have different standards of discussion.
"standards of discussion" - what are the standards? Who decides what they are?
Oh, it's biased and ideologically-driven people who dismiss facts that go against official narratives.
It's a soft and indirect form of censorship.

I didn't know it was factual and documented that the Jews did 9/11 and Oct 7... huh learn something new everyday I guess.
Again, misrepresenting arguments and purposefully ignoring evidence in a feeble attempt to try and paint me as a loony toon.
What's factual is that 5 Israeli citizens, each with a plane ticket to a different location leaving the next day and a sock full of cash, were witnessed celebrating the first plane strike and were then picked up by NYPD later in the day.

No, you're in lockstep with them because you parrot the phrase used by Hamas and other terrorists. It's okay... a lot of people become strange bedfellows when it comes to hating Israel. 🤔 (so not really a leap of logic on my part, just you misunderstanding a clear point I made)
What phrase did I allegedly parrot? and please post link.
I don't believe I've actually ever listened to Hamas members speaking much at at all.
If a Hamas member says humans need water, and I also say that humans need water - is that Hamas/terrorist talk?

I have extended family in Israel who I wish to be safe and not harmed. To suggest that I side with terrorists who want to murder civilians is verifiably insane.
I see that some people are simply unable to honestly debate the issue.
They can't separate the actions of a state's government from the Jewish people.
 
Dude, I'm aware of all of this. You're not listening. WHY would intelligence assets ALLOW themselves to get caught celebrating in the first instance.
Because sometimes people make mistakes and/or get very cocky and overconfident. That's just basic human nature.

WHY is it only Israeli's/Jews that ever allow themselves to get publicly exposed.
Why would you say that? It just points to a lack of research.
The Iran-Contra affair - a plane crash led to the discovery of a conspiracy between the US, Iran and rebel groups in Nicaragua.
In 2018 at least 30 CIA spies were executed in China after their spy communication network with the US was compromised by Chinese counter-intel.
There are a ton of examples of intelligence agents fucking up royally in the past.
Sometimes it happens to Israelis and sometimes it happens to other countries or races.
You seem very focused on trying to frame this as unfair and targeted attack on jews.


Listen to yourself mate, you're actually insinuating that Israeli's would willingly murder hundreds of their own in cold blood.. for what? Just for a pretext to take Gaza? Are you high? If they really cared about Gaza that much they would just annex or glass the place without a second thought and not go through this elaborate charade you're suggesting here.
Actually again, there is evidence of this already and a precedent set many years ago (1954)

(Wiki) The Lavon Affair was a failed Israeli covert operation conducted in Egypt in the summer of 1954. As part of a false flag operation, a group of Egyptian Jews were recruited by Israeli military intelligence to plant bombs inside Egyptian, American, and British-owned civilian targets: cinemas, libraries, and American educational centers. The bombs were timed to detonate several hours after closing time. The attacks were to be blamed on the Muslim Brotherhood, Egyptian communists, "unspecified malcontents", or "local nationalists" with the aim of creating a climate of sufficient violence and instability to induce the British government to retain its occupying troops in Egypt's Suez Canal zone. The operation caused no casualties among the population, but led to the deaths of four operatives: two cell members who committed suicide after being captured; and two operatives who were tried, convicted, and executed by the Egyptian authorities.

Damn, wait until we get into the USS Liberty incident....
 
@JGrimez

please stay on topic and keep all conspiracy or conspiracy-esque chat to the Dive.
Unbelievable.
I post factual information that you don't like and you just label it "conspiracy" and say it can't be discussed here.
How about you refute the actual points that you disagree with?
 
Unbelievable.
I post factual information that you don't like and you just label it "conspiracy" and say it can't be discussed here.
How about you refute the actual points that you disagree with?

I know you have a victim complex but there's no need to be dramatic.

This thread is about the recent events in Israel. If you want to chat about how Jews were behind 9/11 (off topic), or Jews planned the massacre of their own people on Oct 7 (Zero evidence to support, conspiracy theory better suited for the Dive) etc, etc... we have a forum for that.

Although please note blatant antisemitism is not allowed in TD either. So if you feel your ideas creeping in that direction , maybe go tell those you talk to in your "corner" of the internet, not us.
 
I know you have a victim complex but there's no need to be dramatic.
Ironic since I'm one of the small number of Jews who don't claim victim status.

This thread is about the recent events in Israel. If you want to chat about how Jews were behind 9/11 (off topic), or Jews planned the massacre of their own people on Oct 7 (Zero evidence to support, conspiracy theory better suited for the Dive) etc, etc... we have a forum for that.
To be fair, the thread is titled "Israel is under attack". They've been under attack since their inception in 1948.
HOW we arrived to the "recent events" is actually pretty important and very on-topic.
This conflict did not begin on Oct 7 as some people would like to tell the story.
You say "zero evidence to support" yet you haven't looked at the evidence.
If you were honest about truth and facts you would say "please produce some evidence for this claim or else take it to the other forum".
Again, where are the rules regarding what's allowed to be said here and what's only allowed in the sub-forum? Whoever makes these decision should be able to justify their actions.

Although please note blatant antisemitism is not allowed in TD either. So if you feel your ideas creeping in that direction , maybe go tell those you talk to in your "corner" of the internet, not us.
I don't understand where the alleged antisemitism is.
I hope y'all realize that you cannot just keep calling me antisemitic to try and make it true.
Especially when I'm actually arguing for what's best for the Jewish people.
 
Ironic since I'm one of the small number of Jews who don't claim victim status.

I was talking about your history here on Bluelight...but hey never miss an opportunity to make it about the Jews ;)

If you were honest about truth and facts you would say "please produce some evidence for this claim or else take it to the other forum".

Please produce some evidence for the claim that Israel orchestrated the rape and murder of 1500 of their own citizens on October 7 or else take it to the other forum.

Again, where are the rules regarding what's allowed to be said here and what's only allowed in the sub-forum? Whoever makes these decision should be able to justify their actions.

Dude how long have you been here? How many times have we had to tell you the same shit? Our guidelines have been posted since day 1. Maybe just use your common sense also.
 
Leftist people have been pretending to care about Palestine for decades. It gets really old. If you wanna show-off goodness, make it believable. They're muslims. They're not your allies. You're being useful idiots. Stop it now.
you have mistaken. While apparently you don't seem to care about them, does not mean that other people could not genuinely care for them.
 
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