Israel is under attack

[-=SS=-]

The victim blaming is interesting. Is generational trauma meaningless? Palestinians didn't burn down their own olive tree fields

How does perpetuating the cycle of trauma help either group of people though? What Hamas have done is ensure many Israeli families have been shattered and in return that many more within Gaza will be as well. It's completely idiotic. If they had peace in their hearts then they'd find ways to focus on building and working towards something better.. and not spunking [obscene] donation money on tunnels and rockets.

You don't see Israeli's/Jews exacting blanket revenge on the German people for the crimes committed literally just prior to the Palestinian generational trauma moment do you. Or how about exacting blanket revenge on the numerous Arab states general populations for their own particular treatment of Jews.

Smart people deal with that shit and try to move on, because they know violence only begets more violence.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

How does perpetuating the cycle of trauma help either group of people though? What Hamas have done is ensure many Israeli families have been shattered and in return that many more within Gaza will be as well. It's completely idiotic. If they had peace in their hearts then they'd find ways to focus on building and working towards something better.. and not spunking [obscene] donation money on tunnels and rockets.

You don't see Israeli's/Jews exacting blanket revenge on the German people for the crimes committed literally just prior to the Palestinian generational trauma moment do you. Or how about exacting blanket revenge on the numerous Arab states general populations for their own particular treatment of Jews.

Smart people deal with that shit and try to move on, because they know violence only begets more violence.

Its up to the people doing the oppressing to stop the cycle of violence. They are the ones with power, Israel has the power

Also Jews did fight back when the oppression was actually still happening, just like the oppression that is currently happening now in Israel. Your point about exacting revenge after the fact makes no sense because that isn't what's happening

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Most of the people living in Israel in 1948 were indeed the most oppressed people in the world just 3 years prior.

That doesn't mean they need to do ethnic cleansing of their own. That's not an excuse, they could have easily had one state with equal citizenship

 

[Jabberwocky]

That doesn't mean they need to do ethnic cleansing of their own

I agree, revenge is never good.

But you also consider Hamas as "a natural reaction" to Jewish actions.

 

[mal3volent]

Population triples ---> ethnic cleansing!!1!

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Palestine is the one who declined that arrangement

As far as I'm aware that is a mischaracterization, Palestinian leaders had attempted to genuinely come to the table and tried things yet Israel continually wanted more and more restrictions

Population triples ---> ethnic cleansing!!1!

Yet again, the definition of ethnic cleansing since people can't seem to comprehend it

"Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic, racial, or religious groups from a given area, with the intent of making a region ethnically homogeneous"

Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[mal3volent]

As far as I'm aware that is a mischaracterization, Palestinian leaders had attempted to genuinely come to the table and tried things yet Israel continually wanted more and more restrictions


Yet again, the definition of ethnic cleansing since people can't seem to comprehend it

"Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic, racial, or religious groups from a given area, with the intent of making a region ethnically homogeneous"

Ethnic cleansing - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

oh okay, so like the thing all the surrounding Arabic countries did to the Jews. Gotcha.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

oh okay, so like the thing all the surrounding Arabic countries did to the Jews. Gotcha.

I feel like this is running in circles. So that happened in 1948 yea? Hmm I wonder what happened in 1948?

Nakba - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Also which is it, Israelis like SS claims or Jewish people in general as in your claim? Because there is a difference between Zionists and Jewish people

 

[nepalnt21]

oh okay, so like the thing all the surrounding Arabic countries did to the Jews. Gotcha.

so that justifies the CURRENT israeli regime doing the ethnic cleansing?

or like what was your point or whatever?

 

[mal3volent]

so that justifies the CURRENT israeli regime doing the ethnic cleansing?

or like what was your point or whatever?

there is no current ethnic cleansing or genocide
that much is obvious

funny, I didn't hear any tankies on the internet saying shit during the genocide in Syria. No worldwide protests or marches. Hmm I wonder why?

no Jews , no news I guess right?

 

[nepalnt21]

no current ethnic cleansing

that's bullshit... very obvious bullshit.

when you've got a state killing civilians at a 90%+ rate, trying to get them into the sinai desert and out of gaza, and having your military help illegal NON ISRAELI settlers kick palestinians out of their homes in the west bank... denying the obvious ethnic cleansing is some serious bullshit. the situation fits the term 'ethnic cleansing' like a glove.

as for the rest of your comment, it isn't even on topic, and especially it isn't a valid refutation of my point... and is an obvious attempt at derailing the convo... it doesn't warrant any response, but i threw you a bone with this explanation of why it's stupid.

 

[mal3volent]

that's bullshit... very obvious bullshit.

when you've got a state killing civilians at a 90%+ rate, trying to get them into the sinai desert and out of gaza, and having your military help illegal NON ISRAELI settlers kick palestinians out of their homes in the west bank... denying the obvious ethnic cleansing is some serious bullshit. the situation fits the term 'ethnic cleansing' like a glove.

as for the rest of your comment, it isn't even on topic, and especially it isn't a valid refutation of my point... and is an obvious attempt at derailing the convo... it doesn't warrant any response, but i threw you a bone with this explanation of why it's stupid.

No Jews...No news.

When this issue goes away y'all will go back to dragtime story hour or some shit. Won't hear a peep about any of the numerous actual genocides happening around the world, mostly in islamic countries...

 

[nepalnt21]

ah, so you have no good faith answer.

thanks for admitting that i'm right.

 

[swilow]

Just a hospital, eh?

 

[mal3volent]

Just a hospital, eh?

they'll just say they are armed civilians bringing in their wounded
they'll say anything to discredit evidence

 

[swilow]

and having your military help illegal NON ISRAELI settlers kick palestinians out of their homes in the west bank... denying the obvious ethnic cleansing is some serious bullshit. the situation fits the term 'ethnic cleansing' like a glove.

It's not ethnic cleansing, there's almost 2 million Palestinians living in Israel. OTOH, I would say that the 1948 expulsion was ethnic cleansing, but motivated by historical circumstances that you need to understand before you truly get an opinion about the current situation. The Jews didn't expel Palestinians because they were Palestinians, they did so because every Arabic nation around Israel declared war and attacked them and for a people regrouping after the worst genocide in history, having a potential enemy within appeared intolerable, and yes, they wanted Arabic lands for Jews. So Israel did an awful thing.

You guys keep mentioning the settlers, and we agree that it is wrong and unethical. But you seem to think that explains why Hamas tortured and raped and murdered totally unrelated Israeli kibbutz dwellers.

And do recall, the only reason Israel even have a presence in the West Bank is because they claimed it after 1967 when, once again, all of their neighbours attacked them and were defeated. Surely they had a right to a defensive buffer? Hard to argue they don't still need it, given everything.

As to the settlers, disband what can be disbanded and jail those religious nuts.

 

[swilow]

That doesn't mean they need to do ethnic cleansing of their own. That's not an excuse, they could have easily had one state with equal citizenship

They couldn't have "easily" had 1 state, how naive are you? The Arabs hated the Jews, the Jews hated the Arabs. You are aware that the original violence against Jews settling in Palestine was instigated by Arabs, yeah? Palestinians didn't want a shared state, they- like Jews at the time- wanted 1 state for themselves over the whole of the territory. It just happens that after attacking Jews, the Arabic population lost the fight.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

They couldn't have "easily" had 1 state, how naive are you? The Arabs hated the Jews, the Jews hated the Arabs. You are aware that the original violence against Jews settling in Palestine was instigated by Arabs, yeah? Palestinians didn't want a shared state, they- like Jews at the time- wanted 1 state for themselves over the whole of the territory. It just happens that after attacking Jews, the Arabic population lost the fight.

The entire point and goal of Israel from the start was an ethnostate without Arabs. You seriously think they weren't pulling any bullshit right from the bat? Ethnic cleansing has been the entire goal of Zionism from the beginning

It's not ethnic cleansing, there's almost 2 million Palestinians living in Israel. OTOH, I would say that the 1948 expulsion was ethnic cleansing, but motivated by historical circumstances that you need to understand before you truly get an opinion about the current situation. The Jews didn't expel Palestinians because they were Palestinians, they did so because every Arabic nation around Israel declared war and attacked them and for a people regrouping after the worst genocide in history, having a potential enemy within appeared intolerable, and yes, they wanted Arabic lands for Jews. So Israel did an awful thing.

You guys keep mentioning the settlers, and we agree that it is wrong and unethical. But you seem to think that explains why Hamas tortured and raped and murdered totally unrelated Israeli kibbutz dwellers.

And do recall, the only reason Israel even have a presence in the West Bank is because they claimed it after 1967 when, once again, all of their neighbours attacked them and were defeated. Surely they had a right to a defensive buffer? Hard to argue they don't still need it, given everything.

As to the settlers, disband what can be disbanded and jail those religious nuts.

Calling them a potential enemy is just an excuse for the ethnic cleansing. The state is what is organizing and allowing the settlements, they are not doing anything Israel does not want them to

No Jews...No news.

When this issue goes away y'all will go back to dragtime story hour or some shit. Won't hear a peep about any of the numerous actual genocides happening around the world, mostly in islamic countries...

I speak up whenever there are opportunities to about a genocide, but this thread is about Palestine. Nice whataboutism though

 

[swilow]

Ethnic cleansing has been the entire goal of Zionism from the beginning

Pure ignorance there. You think European Jews were not fleeing pogroms and the Holocaust but instead were focused entirely on ridding Palestine of Arabs? Zionism was the same sort of thing as the Arab nationalist movement of the same era; a political structure aiming towards claiming territory as a State. Honestly this will sound brutal, but Palestinians were actually not really taken into account- they were just in the way. You need to understand the duress Jews were under to truly see why they drove the Palestinians off the land. Was it right? I don't know. But it's understandable and furthermore, it's done now. It could be over for Palestinians too. But we have this. So.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Pure ignorance there. You think European Jews were not fleeing pogroms and the Holocaust but instead were focused entirely on ridding Palestine of Arabs? Zionism was the same sort of thing as the Arab nationalist movement of the same era; a political structure aiming towards claiming territory as a State. Honestly this will sound brutal, but Palestinians were actually not really taken into account- they were just in the way. You need to understand the duress Jews were under to truly see why they drove the Palestinians off the land. Was it right? I don't know. But it's understandable and furthermore, it's done now. It could be over for Palestinians too. But we have this. So.

I'm the one being ignorant? When you speculate while you could simply google this shit? That seems like intellectual dishonesty to me. Zionism came before the first world war

"At the core of the Zionist ideology was the traditional aspiration for a Jewish national home through the re-establishment of Jewish sovereignty in Palestine, to be facilitated by the Jewish diaspora (see aliyah). Herzl sought an independent Jewish state (usually defined as a secular state with a Jewish-majority population, in contrast to a theocratic Halakhic state), as expressed in his 1896 pamphlet Der Judenstaat. Though he did not live to witness it, his vision was fulfilled with the founding of the State of Israel in 1948."

History of Zionism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org