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Bupe Suboxone can ruin your life

@burn out
Btw, burn out I forgot to mention something important: there actually is an ancient supplement that is known to reduce opioid side effects and somewhat upregulates the endorphin production (which is why it is used during wd to decrease depression) similar to ULDN and that is black seed oil. Sure, it's by far not as potent as ULDN, but it has some parallels. So there is option "d" for you.
 
Hexenstahl said:
@burn out
Btw, burn out I forgot to mention something important: there actually is an ancient supplement that is known to reduce opioid side effects and somewhat upregulates the endorphin production (which is why it is used during wd to decrease depression) similar to ULDN and that is black seed oil. Sure, it's by far not as potent as ULDN, but it has some parallels. So there is option "d" for you.
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I've run into one big issue with Black Seed Oil (which otherwise makes me feel amazing, to the point days without opioids are very managable). Namely, constipation, far worse than what I get from my usual opioid use. It seems very individual dependent as many people and studies report Black Seed Oil treating constipation, but I guess I'm in the unlucky camp on that one. Unless I learn of a way to counteract this I'll have to use it very sparingly only.
 
Aqlis said:
I've run into one big issue with Black Seed Oil (which otherwise makes me feel amazing, to the point days without opioids are very managable). Namely, constipation, far worse than what I get from my usual opioid use. It seems very individual dependent as many people and studies report Black Seed Oil treating constipation, but I guess I'm in the unlucky camp on that one. Unless I learn of a way to counteract this I'll have to use it very sparingly only.
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It would be interesting to know if BSO and ULDN could have possible synergistic effects. I need to get my hands on a bottle of BSO and try that out and post my results on the ULDN thread. So far I'm having consistent success with ULDN since January 2022 when I first tried it out (almost two years now of daily opioid potentiation and tolerance stabilisation along with virtually no side effects except nose itching), so it'll be interesting to see what BSO does when I combine it with ULDN before taking my opioid.

EDIT:
just looked it up online. My local supermarket has a few of those cold-pressed BSO bottles. I'll buy one tomorrow morning and will try it our the same day and report the results in the evening when my nod wears off lol (I'm on a super long acting opioid which acts even longer due to ULDN, so you guys have to be patient).

Since @cdin is also a ULDN enthusiast, it would be interesting to know if he already tried out this experiment and could report what his results were. Does ULDN have better results when taken alone, or is it better with BSO?
 
Hexenstahl said:
It would be interesting to know if BSO and ULDN could have possible synergistic effects. I need to get my hands on a bottle of BSO and try that out and post my results on the ULDN thread. So far I'm having consistent success with ULDN since January 2022 when I first tried it out (almost two years now of daily opioid potentiation and tolerance stabilisation along with virtually no side effects except nose itching), so it'll be interesting to see what BSO does when I combine it with ULDN before taking my opioid.

EDIT:
just looked it up online. My local supermarket has a few of those cold-pressed BSO bottles. I'll buy one tomorrow morning and will try it our the same day and report the results in the evening when my nod wears off lol (I'm on a super long acting opioid which acts even longer due to ULDN, so you guys have to be patient).

Since @cdin is also a ULDN enthusiast, it would be interesting to know if he already tried out this experiment and could report what his results were. Does ULDN have better results when taken alone, or is it better with BSO?
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one piece of advice is, not taking in on empty stomach. probably obvious but i took my pills on an empty stomach, then BSO not long after and had some of the worst stomach/chest/side pain i've had in a very long time, which went away pretty quickly after I ate a proper meal. so, best bet is add to/eat it with food.
 
DeathIndustrial88 said:
I actually wrote an email to Dr. Carl Hart several months ago, thanking him for sharing this perspective & asking if he knew if there was anything I could do or participate in to help, but he never did answer. lol Still appreciate his work though.
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Same. I was contacting him because I would have appreciated the odd quote for a book I have scheduled to come out in 2025.

I wish these academics that are apparently on the side of harm reduction / legalization would be more willing to be communicative; to make this a collective effort with like-minded researchers
(I hold a diploma in neuroscience & behavioural science, for the record), rather than just furthering their own careers. The only fruitful conversations I've had so far in terms of possible contribution were with Andrew Preston (founder of Exchange Supplies here in the UK ), and Ralf Gerlach (heavily involved in the set-up and running of INDRO, a safe injection facility in my home county of Germany).
 
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TheUltimateFixx said:
Same. I was contacting him because I would have appreciated the odd quote for a book I have scheduled to come out in 2025.

I wish these academics that are apparently on the side of harm reduction / legalization would be more willing to be communicative; to make this a collective effort with like-minded researchers
(I hold a diploma in neuroscience & behavioural science, for the record), rather than just furthering their own careers. The only fruitful conversations I've had so far in terms of possible contribution were with Andrew Preston (founder of Exchange Supplies here in the UK ), and Ralf Gerlach (heavily involved in the set-up and running of INDRO, a safe injection facility in my home county of Germany).
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To be fair, academics like Carl Hart probably receive hundreds of emails per week, so I wouldn't be so quick to accuse someone like him of being a careerist for not answering a couple emails that might have gone under since he obviously doesn't have time to answer emails all day long. It's unfair to compare him with someone like Ralf Gerlach who is practically unknown, has close to zero media presence and resides in a country much smaller than the USA. I mean Hart is a bestselling author whereas Gerlach has like 1 book review on Amazon lol...
 
Burnt Offerings said:
The drug that user mentioned, buprenorphine, actually has shown promise in treating depression
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gordon doesn't know what he is talking about (as is so often the case). The book "Opioids in mental illness: theories, clinical observations and treatment possibilities" published by the New York Academy Of Sciences has a ton of aggregated scientific data which completely debunks what gordon has said about opioids not being able to treat depression (and ofc they treat pain. What does he think this substance class is being used for in this day and age?). I mean I'm a living example of this. I think it was in this thread where I explained my story of how opioids literally prevented me from commiting suicide. That was more than 12 years ago and they still have maintained their effect as a potent antidepressant medication.
 
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Hexenstahl said:
gordon doesn't know what he is talking about (as is so often the case). The book "Opioids in mental illness: theories, clinical observations and treatment possibilities" published by the New York Academy Of Sciences has a ton of aggregated scientific data which completely debunks what gordon has said about opioids not being able to treat depression (and ofc they treat pain. What does he think this substance class is being used for in this day and age?). I mean I'm a living example of this. I think it was in this thread where I explained my story of how opioids literally prevented me from commiting suicide. That was more than 12 years ago and they still have maintained their effect as a potent antidepressant medication.
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I know that in Germany, at least, both extract of opium and morphine were used in standard psychiatric practice to treat depressive and panic states, with documented success. I don't think that practice should have been completely abandoned the way it was.
 
TheUltimateFixx said:
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I know that in Germany, at least, both extract of opium and morphine were used in standard psychiatric practice to treat depressive and panic states, with documented success. I don't think that practice should have been completely abandoned the way it was.
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Yes, it is very helpful. I think depressive and schizophrenic patients would fare much better with opioids than with extremely side effect prone ADs and NLs which sometimes even end up worsening the condition that the patient suffers from. If this substance can not only improve my quality of life, but in fact save my life, then I gladly pay the price of dependency.
 
Hexenstahl said:
Yes, it is very helpful. I think depressive and schizophrenic patients would fare much better with opioids than with extremely side effect prone ADs and NLs which sometimes even end up worsening the condition that the patient suffers from. If this substance can not only improve my quality of life, but in fact save my life, then I gladly pay the price of dependency.
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Hasn't got a good track record with schizophrenia. Schizophrenic symptoms are better with anti-psychotics.
 
Hexenstahl said:
Yes, it is very helpful. I think depressive and schizophrenic patients would fare much better with opioids than with extremely side effect prone ADs and NLs which sometimes even end up worsening the condition that the patient suffers from. If this substance can not only improve my quality of life, but in fact save my life, then I gladly pay the price of dependency.
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NLs?
 
TheUltimateFixx said:
Same. I was contacting him because I would have appreciated the odd quote for a book I have scheduled to come out in 2025.

I wish these academics that are apparently on the side of harm reduction / legalization would be more willing to be communicative; to make this a collective effort with like-minded researchers
(I hold a diploma in neuroscience & behavioural science, for the record), rather than just furthering their own careers. The only fruitful conversations I've had so far in terms of possible contribution were with Andrew Preston (founder of Exchange Supplies here in the UK ), and Ralf Gerlach (heavily involved in the set-up and running of INDRO, a safe injection facility in my home county of Germany).
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It would be nice if people could communicate & bring others into it more.

I even wrote to the National Pain Advocacy or something like that of America & got no response from them either.

So basically I am all for helping get drug reform started, yet at the same time I feel completely powerless in what exactly I am able to really do to change anything. Only thing I've come up with is to just be constantly vocal online & in person with everyone I can about how opioids have benefited me. Not to mention how much safer they are in comparison to so many other things.

It would be nice if I could get involved in something bigger.
I'm sure Dr Hart gets thousands of emails all the time though, so I can't totally blame him. Although I absolutely agree with you that it would be cool if people who had some kind of position of power would help organize it into something bigger, with more participants & getting more things done. I'd like to feel like I'm doing something, but some one with my income level & lack of professional connections basically just makes me another lone voice amongst the masses.





As for the user who claimed opioids can't treat depression, they are full of shit.

I was a hotel this weekend & saw that they approved Samodorphin or whatever. It's basically an even shittier version of buprenorphine, where it has an antagonist alongside it that blocks the mu-agonism of bupe but keeps the kappa antagonism. I last heard it didn't pass the clinical trials. But apparently it's been approved since I saw a commercial for it yesterday. Anyone heard about this?????? I think it's going to be garbage. I imagine most of the antidepressant effect comes from bupe's slightly agonism at the mu-receptor, rather than it's kappa antagonism. The commercial mentioned it having a withdrawal syndrome, which seemed odd, since if it's not gonna agonizing mu, then what withdrawal syndrome could there really be afterwards?

This reminded me that although I think opioids absolutely should be legal & used for purposes like depression, I can see the capitalist corporations in America making franken-opioids for depression & charging insane prices or getting people addicted on non-euphoric opioids & such. So if we were to legalize opioids, I think it should either be through a doctor/clinic & strictly the traditional kind or available through like a store/dispensary, rather than letting crazy pharmacutical companies design all these whacko new ones that provide less euphoria & shit like that.
 
TheUltimateFixx said:
Hasn't got a good track record with schizophrenia. Schizophrenic symptoms are better with anti-psychotics.
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Depends on the opioid. Stimulating opioids like oxy can indeed worsen psychotic symptoms, but highly sedating ones like morphine can and do decrease psychotic symptoms.

Aqlis said:
NLs?
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Neuroleptics aka antipsychotic medication.

DeathIndustrial88 said:
This reminded me that although I think opioids absolutely should be legal & used for purposes like depression, I can see the capitalist corporations in America making franken-opioids for depression & charging insane prices or getting people addicted on non-euphoric opioids & such. So if we were to legalize opioids, I think it should either be through a doctor/clinic & strictly the traditional kind or available through like a store/dispensary, rather than letting crazy pharmacutical companies design all these whacko new ones that provide less euphoria & shit like that.
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It should be like I have written in this thread here recently -> https://bluelight.org/xf/threads/wh...weed-eat-yogurt.912522/page-119#post-15925514
I like it old school 😁
 
TheUltimateFixx said:
I've heard some people have had good results with it ; and also with psilocybin.
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in my experience, psilo is very good, but ketamine is a supernova depression couldn't dream to defy. i'd come out of trips feeling like its my first day on earth again for weeks then return to normal, but i don't get depressed very often at all, just when i do.
 
vlzinspace said:
in my experience, psilo is very good, but ketamine is a supernova depression couldn't dream to defy. i'd come out of trips feeling like its my first day on earth again for weeks then return to normal, but i don't get depressed very often at all, just when i do.
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It shouldn't be used excessively however as it is toxic to the bladder. Also, when it comes to Ketamine therapy, a doctor will apply the infusion and give you a low dose only, followed by a subsequent therapy session. It's not like you just go there, they give you a whole bunch of ketamine to trip your balls on and then you go home. Also, dissociative drugs come with their own dangers and risks to mental health...
 
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