Recovery The 2023 Recovery Thread

[Frog Dreams]

you have anger towards AA

I have no anger towards AA or any person or any institution. I don't believe AA is helpful. I don't think convincing yourself that you're powerless is healing. People need to fix their core. I also don't think SSRI drugs are helpful. I don't think they heal people either. I don't approve of psychiatry in general, but I'm not angry about any of it.

It's hard to pick up tone on the internet.

I'm totally chill.

 

[elgoucho9]

Basically it's the same as if i used crack cocaine and LSD, and then claim the LSD was helping me, despite also admitting i had a massive comedown from the crack the next day.

Like maybe using the LSD on it's own once on a blue moon in low doses might help your recovery. It will definitely not help if you use it along side the substance (in your case alcohol) that you have a problem with. That's just getting wasted and relapsing on the substance you had a problem with in my opinion.

AA meetings are never going to be of any benefit if you still want to drink. And from what you've said here your use of LSD sounds more hedonistic than you trying to cure yourself. ie you don't really want to be clean.

 

[Jnowhere]

Wow, Frog Dreams is back, I've got to say, I have never seen anyone put so much effort trying convince themselves, they are ok. Wow, you kept your word over 24 hours, I thought for sure you would be back sooner.
Bufu, is slang term I've heard, but it had nothing to do with toads. I can only speculate what is going on with you, but when everything you have said is put together, I can only speculate why you are on a crusade to convince a handful of strangers that you are not someone with a problem, when the handful of people have read all your posts, almost all agree that you have a substance abuse problem. I guess you need reassurance from others, most of whom are drug users, alcoholics, recovering alcoholics Ex drug users, drug addicts, recovering drug addicts or more than one the above. Me I would say alcoholic but I have become allergic to alcohol, I itch like crazy if I drink or try to( I even have trouble being able to drink or keep it down.) My body rebelled against alcohol, so I physically can't drink. I have cirrhosis and my liver doesn't process alcohol hardly, and can't get it down, so I guess I might be able to claim ex- alcoholic.
What is this, recreational viagra thread you started. Sex is recreational. Oh that's right you try to get high off everything.

 

[Frog Dreams]

I'm not on a crusade.

I'm clearly not welcome here, politely stating my beliefs. I wasn't welcomed very warmly at AA either.

That's okay. I said I will stop and requested that people discuss it further via message... so as not to disrupt the thread. Then - like I said - people kept making comments directed to me and not responding to my messages.

I'm not trying to convince myself of anything, because I am okay. I am already convinced of that. Everything is okay.

Convincing yourself that you're not okay is perfectly acceptable here. Same as AA.

I don't need anything.

When I used to post on here counting my days sober, everyone reacted positively.

I'm not insulting anyone. I'm not angry. I just disagree with you.

And from what you've said here your use of LSD sounds more hedonistic than you trying to cure yourself.

I spend most of my time on LSD praying and meditating.

Basically it's the same as if i used crack cocaine and LSD, and then claim the LSD was helping me, despite also admitting i had a massive comedown from the crack the next day.

I don't see the problem with that. The LSD healed. The alcohol/crack doesn't negate the healing... Like I said, the hangover was incredibly healing. I went super deep into a non-dual state. Deeper than I've ever been sober. I had extreme clarity and a deep, profound sense of peace.

It will definitely not help if you use it along side the substance (in your case alcohol) that you have a problem with.

Don't presume to know everything. It is helping me.

We choose to go backwards, always. Alcohol is an excuse.

 

[kiely]

It sounds like going to AA really does make you have to have accountability. I really don't know if I could be able to do it. I would give it a try though.

However, it's easy to get high, it's really hard to stay sober. Sober is way cooler.

 

[elgoucho9]

Nobody said your not welcome here. I was giving you honest advice nothing more nothing less.

If you think using the substance you have a problem with alongside another drug doesn't negate the healing, then you will continue to use the substance you have a problem with and never get clean of it.

In short you don't actually want to fully quit drinking then from what you are saying.

 

[Frog Dreams]

@kiely

Like I said, one of my biggest problems with AA is the forced religion. I politely declined to say the God stuff and they couldn't handle it. They mocked me. They were sarcastic. There was no time to get used to saying it. You just have to say it right away, even if you don't believe it... After my first meeting someone came up to me and said they agreed with me but it's best to just pretend.

I honestly don't understand how anyone could possibly suggest that is an ideal recovery environment.

As for how easy it is to get high, it depends on the drug. Bufo isn't easy. Muscaria isn't easy. Having 8 tabs of LSD isn't easy.

Absolute sobriety isn't for me. I like drugs. I like the good ones and the bad ones. My recovery involves stopping drugs that are toxic for me and continuing to consume medicine that heals me.

In short you don't actually want to fully quit drinking then from what you are saying.

I'm not sure. I'd like to drink like a normal person and I've come an extraordinary way in that department.

Should I never have a glass of wine over dinner? It doesn't lead to 10 glasses. I decide to drink heavily. It's not a compulsion anymore. I'm not running from anything.

Now that alcohol is not a crutch, it's awesome. I really like it. Unfortunately, this may lead to it becoming a crutch again.

I will adjust my intake according to how I am recovering.

I may quit drinking, when and if I want to.

 

[elgoucho9]

@kiely

Like I said, one of my biggest problems with AA is the forced religion. I politely declined to say the God stuff and they couldn't handle it. They mocked me. They were sarcastic. There was no time to get used to saying it. You just have to say it right away, even if you don't believe it... After my first meeting someone came up to me and said they agreed with me but it's best to just pretend.

I honestly don't understand how anyone could possibly suggest that is an ideal recovery environment.

As for how easy it is to get high, it depends on the drug. Bufo isn't easy. Muscaria isn't easy. Having 8 tabs of LSD isn't easy.

Absolute sobriety isn't for me. I like drugs. I like the good ones and the bad ones. My recovery involves stopping drugs that are toxic for me and continuing to consume medicine that heals me.



I'm not sure. I'd like to drink like a normal person and I've come an extraordinary way in that department.

Should I never have a glass of wine over dinner? It doesn't lead to 10 glasses. I decide to drink heavily. It's not a compulsion anymore. I'm not running from anything.

Now that alcohol is not a crutch, it's awesome. I really like it. Unfortunately, this may lead to it becoming a crutch again.

I will adjust my intake according to how I am recovering.

I may quit drinking, when and if I want to.

And bingo there's your problem. You think as an alcoholic you'll be able to have a social drink and it won't ever lead to problems?

Maybe it will be ok once. But if that happens 10 times out of 10 you think there won't be a problem. I can use coke once and maybe it wont be a problem, if it's out of 10 times probably at least 5 of them i'll wind up bang on the pipe.

The reality is you don't actually want to be clean. Your going to AA meetings but still want to drink alcohol. No wonder it's not working for you.

 

[Frog Dreams]

You're not listening. I'm-not-an-alcoholic.

I'm not going to AA meetings, either. That was 10 years ago.

With all due respect, you don't know me.

You believe what you want to believe.

AA people do this thing where they insist that other people are alcoholics. If anybody has ever had a problem with alcohol, it is incurable and they have a lifelong disease.

I don't have a disease. Most of the time I drink in moderation. Most days I don't drink at all, because I don't want to. I don't have to stop myself. There is, often, no desire. I'm about to start a detox for my next bufo ceremony. No drugs or alcohol except classic psychs (mescaline, psilocin, LSD). I will experience zero withdrawals from the alcohol because I'm not physically or psychologically addicted to it. Abstaining won't be hard for me, at all.

Believe what you like.

 

[elgoucho9]

Yet you drink a bottle of sambuca when your on LSD. Sounds more like you want to get wasted than clean.

Then you want to have a go at the people giving you genuine advice.

I recovered from a cocaine addiction where i was smoking ounces. I have injected both that and heroin, and i quite both cold turkey

Your posts about still drinking or wantimg to be able to drink sociably etc are just annoying. You still want to get fucked up. Which is not how recovery works. You still want to use alcohol, which means you will repeat the same problems. End of the day it's your life do what you want, but don't try and kid us, or anyone else you want to be clean cos it's complete nonsense.

 

[Frog Dreams]

I'm not having a go at anyone. I haven't said anything sarcastic. I'm not swearing.

Your posts about still drinking or wantimg to be able to drink sociably etc are just annoying.

Examine why they annoy you. I don't care at all if somebody I've never met wants to drink socially... Why would that annoy me?

I'm not telling you you're lying to yourself. I'm not telling you that you're wrong. I'm just stating my opinion.

but don't try and kid us, or anyone else you want to be clean

Sounds more like you want to get wasted than clean.

Never said I want to be clean.

I literally said I don't like that word.

It implies that some people are dirty.

You're not listening.

All the best.

 

[elgoucho9]

I'm not having a go at anyone. I haven't said anything sarcastic. I'm not swearing.



Examine why they annoy you. I don't care at all if somebody I've never met wants to drink socially... Why would that annoy me?

I'm not telling you you're lying to yourself. I'm not telling you that you're wrong. I'm just stating my opinion.





Never said I want to be clean.

I literally said I don't like that word.

It implies that some people are dirty.

You're not listening.

All the best.

If you don't want to be clean what are you doing in a recovery forum?

 

[tokayeahok]

how’re we all doing lads & lasses??


i’ve been doing good. i have been using hence why i haven’t been on much, but for some reason i’ve kept it…. ‘under control’? on the other side i think there is any ‘under control’ when you’re using fentanyl and that i’m just playing my own self, but objectively i am using way less than i used to. also i’m not using everyday. i’ll do a pill or 2 every 3 days.


it’s treading on uneasy ground but we’re (my mum & i) are deep cleaning our house for fall equinox & i’ve gotta have the energy to rearrange my room, move furniture, redecorate, sweep, dust, mop, throw away trash, get rid of clothes i don’t need to the goodwill homeless bins, all whilst keeping up with household duties such as dishes, taking trash out, cleaning kitty litter box, sweeping & mopping the living room / dining quarters, and keeping the bathrooms clean. so it’s been a lot honestly. but there’s a huge weight off my shoulders in regards to my room. it’s spotless & has this really lovely zen feel to it. i’ve got some of those remote controlled lights strings up around the edge of the ceiling. i can change the colors and have them alternate as well, so no need to string up halloween lights, then take them down, then string up christmas lights, then take them down. i can just press a button now in regards to the holiday lmao. i’ve got these victorian era lanterns hanging from my ceiling with tea light candles in them for nighttime, a clean & made bed, the cats have a little kitty village in the corner with kitty houses, water/snacks/food, and sprinkled with a little catnip


anyways sorry for blabbering about my bedroom.

take care & good to hear from you all xoxo

godspeed!
-jon

 

[tokayeahok]

If you don't want to be clean what are you doing in a recovery forum?

i think he’s just saying when you say the word clean in regards to sobriety, then it subtlety implies you were ‘dirty’ if you’re ‘clean’ now, y’know? i do understand the sentiment but to be honest, just take it for face value, for fucks sake. if someone said ‘good job for staying clean, jon!’ id just thank them and not immediately imply that they were saying that i was ‘dirty’, as i could make a bet and guarantee that the thought that they thought you were ‘dirty’ never ever crossed their mind. really tired of this elitist vernacular.

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

how’re we all doing lads & lasses??


i’ve been doing good. i have been using hence why i haven’t been on much, but for some reason i’ve kept it…. ‘under control’? on the other side i think there is any ‘under control’ when you’re using fentanyl and that i’m just playing my own self, but objectively i am using way less than i used to. also i’m not using everyday. i’ll do a pill or 2 every 3 days.


it’s treading on uneasy ground but we’re (my mum & i) are deep cleaning our house for fall equinox & i’ve gotta have the energy to rearrange my room, move furniture, redecorate, sweep, dust, mop, throw away trash, get rid of clothes i don’t need to the goodwill homeless bins, all whilst keeping up with household duties such as dishes, taking trash out, cleaning kitty litter box, sweeping & mopping the living room / dining quarters, and keeping the bathrooms clean. so it’s been a lot honestly. but there’s a huge weight off my shoulders in regards to my room. it’s spotless & has this really lovely zen feel to it. i’ve got some of those remote controlled lights strings up around the edge of the ceiling. i can change the colors and have them alternate as well, so no need to string up halloween lights, then take them down, then string up christmas lights, then take them down. i can just press a button now in regards to the holiday lmao. i’ve got these victorian era lanterns hanging from my ceiling with tea light candles in them for nighttime, a clean & made bed, the cats have a little kitty village in the corner with kitty houses, water/snacks/food, and sprinkled with a little catnip


anyways sorry for blabbering about my bedroom.

take care & good to hear from you all xoxo

godspeed!
-jon

It’s good to see you
I’ve been going through some thangs but trying my best … that’s all we can do rite.
It sounds nice how you have your room & the kitties set up
Hugs

 

[Ds]

Never said I want to be clean.

Then please refrain from posting here in the recovery thread.
There's people that come here, looking for a solution to their drinking and drug use.
When they read that you've got it figured out, then they are going to do what you did. Heroin addicts, alcoholics and various other addicts are going to go do another shot because they read where you mentioned you aren't here to be clean or an addict, and these people that are actually about to go kill themselves will truly believe the shit you say.
Jokes on them heh? It doesn't fuck with you because they never interacted with you. They just read your comments.
People have been trying to figure out addiction and alcoholism since it became a thing, and AA doesn't work for everyone. Nothing wrong with that because there's more than 1 way to get clean from drugs/alcohol. Which that's why this thread is here. To encourage others to try something else if AA isn't working. There's other means and methods to recovery other then will power alone.
I was at a noon AA meeting today and honestly it felt good to give/accept hugs and handshakes by men and women whom I've seen at these meetings nearly daily for the last 9 months. I don't share much, though hearing how some of these people have multiple years of recovery keeps me coming back because life continues for them as it does for me and everyone here.

 

[Frog Dreams]

if someone said ‘good job for staying clean, jon!’ id just thank them and not immediately imply that they were saying that i was ‘dirty’, as i could make a bet and guarantee that the thought that they thought you were ‘dirty’ never ever crossed their mind. really tired of this elitist vernacular.

The elitism isn't coming from me, as far as I'm concerned. I have my own idea of recovery. I stated my beliefs in a respectful manner. I didn't mock anyone. I stayed on the high road the whole time. I'm not forcing my ideas down anyone's throat. I'm not telling people they're lying to themselves. I'm just stating opinions. I'm also not responding to a positive statement (like you said above) about being clean. I'm responding to people telling me what I think. Telling me I don't want to recover. That's not true.

I don't need to get clean because I'm already clean. This is an important distinction for my recovery.

I have recovered enormously over the past two months.

If you don't want to be clean what are you doing in a recovery forum?

Then please refrain from posting here in the recovery thread.

I'm talking about recovery. This isn't the clean thread.

Perhaps you should retitle it.

I will stop posting.

Good luck, people.
God speed.

 

[Jnowhere]

Hey frog dreams, you are interested in getting high on cough syrup and ethnobotanicals? You really will try to get high on whatever you can. You are a mess, get help.

 

[Frog Dreams]

Is it fair to ask me not to post in a recovery thread and then have people say false things about me that I can't respond to?

 

[Frog Dreams]

EDIT. somebody deleted the post I am responding to, here... I would prefer it if you don't delete this post because it took me a little while to write and (again) I'm not breaking any rules.

@Jnowhere

Yes, you and others.

I've been told by Admin not to post in here despite not breaking any rules.

If you guys want me to stop posting in here, maybe stop calling me a mess and telling me how I feel.

I haven't had DXM for God knows how long. Many, many years. At the beginning of each month, I start a "frame". The first time I did this, I mounted a picture frame on the wall. Inside the frame is the tobacco warning from the last packet of cigarettes I smoked. That was over 5 years ago. I have never had a puff since... I started the thread about DXM because next month, I'm starting a recreational dissociative frame.

This will be the last time I consume DXM, because I don't need it. It is a farewell, but - also - I'm curious to experience the dissociative experience now that I'm not blocked / conflicted / depressed / anxious. I'm in a really good place. I also meditate now. My DXM experience will be wildly different from all those years ago when I was trying to escape and trying to get fucked up. That is no longer my intention. I'm not running.

As far as Osha goes, it doesn't even get you high. It's a legal herb. What's the difference - honestly - between a cup of Osha tea and a cup of black tea?

Does peppermint tea prove I'm a junkie?

You really will try to get high on whatever you can.

No, I have access to cheap meth and cheap fentanyl and cheap 2CB and cheap ketamine. I don't like cocaine. Never have. Will never have opiates again, recreationally. Haven't done so for nearly 10 years. Will never have meth again. Haven't done so for about 8 years. Will never have alphabet soup research chemicals. Haven't had any for many years. Will never have nitrous again. Will never have amyl nitrate. Will never have GHB and never have. It has been offered to me many times. Will never have benzos again. Haven't had any for over a year...

Most of my drug use is spiritual, these days.

Drinking too much alcohol is problematic, but so is eating too much weed.

Alcohol is a tricky one. If it wasn't legal, I would almost certainly add it to my list of prohibited substances. It is - however - legal and a deeply social thing in society.

I like to drink at weddings. I like to have a glass of wine or two at dinner. Very rarely, I will drink to excess... I am getting much better.

MDMA is also tricky. I recognize as toxic and the potential for abuse (for me) is much higher than alcohol.

I highly suspect I will get to a point within the next year where I never consume anything again with an LD50, except - maybe - alcohol.

I will continue to try and learn to moderate my drinking. I have already made significant progress.

I'm not a mess. That's what AA teaches you. That you're powerless.

I am not powerless; I am empowered.