• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ
  • PD Moderators: Esperighanto | JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat

☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy Ibogaine/Iboga Thread

For me iboga was powerfully behavior-altering. It worked on a deeply subconscious level, it was unlike psychedelics (more a dissociative than any other class of drug) in that I was pretty much dreaming the whole time, it wasn't until later that I formed the memories into a cohesive experience and applied some conscious narrative to it. I came out of it feeling reprogrammed, and it was not entirely clear to me how or why. I loved my experience, especially coming out of it and and immediately post-ibogaine when the noribogaine was predominating. It lasted a VERY long time (3 days until I could really function again). For a week after the main effects I felt absolutely amazing, and the 2 years following it were the best of my life so far, I started playing music again, totally left opiates behind (though I started to relapse 5 years later when I experienced several losses in a row and have been struggling with that since for about 2 years, but until that 5 year point where I caved in a moment of intense pain and took an opiate again, I didn't even crave opiates), started to exercise and get in shape and eat better. I felt powerful and in control of myself unlike I had ever felt before, or since. This was when I did a flood dose.

I have also taken it at lower doses and found it much more conscious and still very dissociative, it has extremely strong visuals and it's difficult to walk on a full dose (even well sub-flood). Closing your eyes, you immediately start seeing dreamlike visions and get drawn into them easily. Even microdosing gives me visuals, light ones. They only come out at night (with stronger doses they're much stronger at night, too), and linger on for a couple of days after even one microdose. When microdosing for days on end, the effects accumulate and build.

It's a very strange substance.
 
@Xorkoth On the full experience where it lasts 3 days are the visuals at peak. Intensity for that length of time? Does this mean 3 days without sleep? (This may have been addressed in this giant thread)
 
No, I slept, in fact I didn't even get out of bed for an entire day and most of the second day. I was probably in and out of sleep, but it's hard to say as I was dreaming whether I was awake or asleep.

The visuals were utterly taking over my field of vision for the first 2 days, and then the third day they were less, but still quite present. Actually they lingered on at night for like 2 weeks.
 
Do you recall your dose? I'm thinking about trying it in the very near future... Did you have anyone around to help you get up if you needed the bathroom or anything? Did you monitor heart rate?
 
It was ~1200mg equivalent (950mg of HCL and 500mg of TA extract which should be about 250mg of ibogaine HCL plus some other active alkaloids). About 20mg/kg at the time. I wrote about it extensively:

Ibogaine (flood dose) - First Time - Into The Flood

** Note: this is really long, quite possibly the longest trip report ever written. I am posting it here before I post it to Erowid, to make sure it is in the best shape possible for publishing there where it will be more widely viewed. Consequently, if you have any feedback or find any...
www.bluelight.org www.bluelight.org
 
I've been going through this thread. Very interested in the "microdose" regime, for general mental strength and dissociative introspection.

I came here to ask for opinions on the cariac risks with low doses. But I've eaten many many grams of DPH back in my days, and I'm just reading that it messes with potassium channels too, and is capable of the same QT interval prolongation. So I suppose that if my heart would be at risk at all, I'd be dead by now, heh.

I guess that's some relevant information for the big ibogaine/iboga thread.

I guess I have a second question. Since it's used as addiction cure, combinations aren't talked about much. But would microdosing ibogaine HCl actually preclude the use of everything else?
 
We tend to focus on the brain over here, all this cardiac literature makes me feel out of my depth, and I have no idea whether above claim is defendable, the claim that DPH can serve as a litmus test for ibogaine survival chances. DPH does K-channel blockage alright, but it's unclear whether it's the same type of channels ibogaine blocks, and unclear even whether this type of K-channel blockage is the only cardio-toxicity at play in ibogaine. Additionally I've never seen any psychopharmacology paper claim that the complexity of the substance is such that the mechanism might not be EVER understood.

That's not encouraging, at least not to the analytical mind.. intuitively such complexity might be exactly what's needed for the most profound kinds of transformations. Complex solutions go with complex problems? It's curious that there are some anecdotal claims that ibogaine ameliorates tinnitus, one of those complex problems utterly resistant to consensus as shown in virtually every goddamn conversation about it. I can't see evidence for it looking at the rough pharmacodynamics, on the contrary even. But you know, who knows.. maybe no one, ever.

But on the plus side I've been able to look at the 19 deaths commonly cited. None of 'em feature "actual" low doses, doses low enough to pass as microdose. It seems the idea even low doses can kill stems from a paper studying the threshold of the K-channel blockage.

ibogaine.png


So they've measured blood plasma levels, which are not easily converted into product weight. But a flood dose (500mg-1000mg Ibogaine HCl) should correspond to 1-11 µM. The "low concentration" they mention is 4 µM, which hits the half-way point in that graph.. but so isn't "low" low, but rather a somewhat lower blood concentration for a flood dose.

Another paper looks more closely at the African rituals, and conclude that the science about Ibogaine allows for psychological stress to be the actual, fatal trigger. Not that there's evidence for it, but that there's no evidence against the anecdotes, or against any protective properties of the African rituals.. this in stark contrast to one scientist in the bluelight neuroscience forum trying to explain away all deaths by opiate/opioid interaction. This would imply tacitly that all the deaths without opioid involvement must have been misrepresented? A typical case of hardheads molding the data to conform to their envisioned mechanism if you ask me, something we get here at PD too.

Again, I'm out of my depth here. I'm sharing my thoughts so far in case anyone can spot any glaring mistakes yet.
 
Well, for one the toxicity is believed to be more complex than that. I posted a little on it here.
 
Thanks for the link! I thought I covered the way-too-complex part, but if it's even more complex than way-too-complex, okay then. :)

Your post mentions microdose deaths, despite calling the data into question? Not sure what you're on about.. but not sure it matters either. Even if there were no official deaths documented, microdosing will still cause a buildup of noribogaine over time. There's some optimism out there that ibogaine's metabolite holds its future, but it's shown to be a more powerful blocker of the relevant K-channels than ibogaine itself. Even if noribogaine would have fewer cardiotoxic mechanisms, it still has the prime suspect of all the potential, deadly mechanisms in common. Therefore even sustained "microdosing" (millidosing rather, but milli sounds silly) poses a theoretical cardiac risk, like you conclude.

It's a philosophical question whether risk of death is truly worse than risking a permanent state of torture following other experimental antidepressants. But assuming death is worse, other avenues are better looked at for coping with horrible mood, or even seeking fundamental transformation.. unless it's an emergency, like in the case of a crippling drug addiction that seems to be taking you with it in any case.

Then again, looking at those 19 deaths (which do suffer from a severe lack of standardisation, but are selected on reliability as far as I can see), they all involve either drug addiction or pre-existing health problems. So the optimism the clinics have, seems substantiatable.. well not really, but it would be, in case there's no other drug involved, like with the kind of use I'm looking at (ideally, potentially). But I don't know how to weigh a complex theoretical risk against a (maybe) absence of practical risk.

So perhaps it does matter what sources you had in mind there. Care to elaborate where the reliability of the reported deaths fails, and/or what data you did consider? @Pfafffed
 
I've been trying a subtle relative of iboga known as tabernanthe manii- it apparently was used as a stimulant in France in the 1960s called Lambaréné. It's extremely subtle in my experience and I was skeptical if it was even doing anything but I have to say that every time I have taken LSD on days I have used Manii, I end up having very emotionally deep shamanistic experiences and closed eye visuals that are as interdimensional feeling as DMT. This is also with tabs only dosed at 100 mcg as that is my go to dose if I plan to be out hiking or interacting with others. I'll still keep working with it as it seemed to help on days I take my own mandatory (by choice) breaks from my prescribed Adderall. There's not enough research into any anti addiction qualities to it for me to say anything in regards to that. Bringing this up here as it is regarded as a sister of Iboga and might be of interest.
 
Xorkoth said:
The retreat was awesome actually, I didn't end up microdosing ibogaine, but my friend and I had a really positive experience and I got really healthy for a while and was totally past withdrawals and feeling good. We tripped on mushrooms one day which was great. Unfortunately my cat died literally the day I got back, and it was kinda my girlfriend's fault... it's okay now but I ended up relapsing and then went through opiates, benzos (caught my first little dependence while using benzos to sleep at night during opiate w/d), then used gabapentin and phenibut to get past that, and just recently finished getting off phenibut and I'm basically back to where I was at the end of the cabin retreat, working out every day and feeling pretty good.



Ibogaine is a strange substance. Well, the TA extract is stranger than pure ibogaine. When microdosing, I have more intense dreams, and I get a little buzz from it, it's slightly more noticeable than microdosing LSD, but quite different. I also start getting visuals at night, it's this effect where bright edges linger in your vision and scatter away like jagged sticks. It's hard to describe, but the visuals will linger on for days after I stop microdosing. It definitely has an effect on cognition and mood, but it's not really bubbly/euphoric, it's more like thoughtful and kind of raw. At least, that's how the TA is with microdosing. I have never tried microdosing pure ibogaine HCl.

I still have probably 500-1000mg of it. I may try taking a macrodose, but well under flood, with it sometime. Or maybe try microdosing again. Actually it might be a pretty good time to try, seeing as how I've just gotten clear of addictive drugs again.
Click to expand...
 
sin_is_synthetic said:
I've been trying a subtle relative of iboga known as tabernanthe manii- it apparently was used as a stimulant in France in the 1960s called Lambaréné. It's extremely subtle in my experience and I was skeptical if it was even doing anything but I have to say that every time I have taken LSD on days I have used Manii, I end up having very emotionally deep shamanistic experiences and closed eye visuals that are as interdimensional feeling as DMT. This is also with tabs only dosed at 100 mcg as that is my go to dose if I plan to be out hiking or interacting with others. I'll still keep working with it as it seemed to help on days I take my own mandatory (by choice) breaks from my prescribed Adderall. There's not enough research into any anti addiction qualities to it for me to say anything in regards to that. Bringing this up here as it is regarded as a sister of Iboga and might be of interest.
Click to expand...
I'm looking to try ibogaine for my opie addicted self lol..could u give me any tips? 5614407708
 
sin_is_synthetic said:
I've been trying a subtle relative of iboga known as tabernanthe manii- it apparently was used as a stimulant in France in the 1960s called Lambaréné. It's extremely subtle in my experience and I was skeptical if it was even doing anything but I have to say that every time I have taken LSD on days I have used Manii, I end up having very emotionally deep shamanistic experiences and closed eye visuals that are as interdimensional feeling as DMT. This is also with tabs only dosed at 100 mcg as that is my go to dose if I plan to be out hiking or interacting with others. I'll still keep working with it as it seemed to help on days I take my own mandatory (by choice) breaks from my prescribed Adderall. There's not enough research into any anti addiction qualities to it for me to say anything in regards to that. Bringing this up here as it is regarded as a sister of Iboga and might be of interest.
Click to expand...
This makes me wonder if any MAO inhibition is occurring, that reminds me of the impact harmine and harmaline have.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top