Miscellaneous Most atypical psychedelic experiences?

[Kaleida]

Interesting, so how does the full agonism of a research paper differ from the ordinary view, and if they are not more powerful at activating the 2A, then why are they used in research papers as full agonists? And what causes the toxicity?

It mostly just boils down to the fact that the way they're using the term "full agonism" in this context has to do with the drug's capacity to activate the brain preparations fully in a way comparable to serotonin when paying attention to second messenger levels like inositol phosphate. The difference is just that when they're testing drugs this way, they can easily send it right to the relevant site and don't worry about things like overdosing or anything and in general, like I pointed out with the data on LSD, psilocin, and mescaline, pretty much any 5-HT2A receptor agonist can get to or near "full agonism" when you can test them that directly and without any restrictions. It's useful for testing things like how the 5-HT2A receptor functions in various parts of the brain without having to worry about how the living animal responds to the drug and just being able to test the exact part of the brain or specific cell type of whatever that you want to test. Again, I'm no professional and I'm sure they could come up with many more ideas off the top of their head of things you can do with this kind of info, but basically it's just for brain research, and the way they're using it in that kind of research, it does function as a full agonist when administered at a high enough concentration, so it counts.

When it comes to drug users, the definition of "full agonist" is usually used more so with respect to how much the drug actually activates the receptor inherently instead, at least based on the conversations I'm familiar with. It's an important question when it comes to varying levels of safety with things like morphine vs mitragynine (from kratom) or THC vs synthetic cannabinoids. These are the kinds of differences in the psychedelic molecules that the study I linked before supposedly measures specifically. This all basically just suggests that NBOMes are not "full agonists" in the way that a lot of people outside of the scientific community originally interpreted them to be, but really, that doesn't change a whole lot about what we know about them anyway, because a lot of what people assume to be true about "5-HT2A receptor full agonists" was really just coming from NBOMes in the first place. The truth is, at least to my knowledge, there's yet to be much scientific consensus on the difference between 5-HT2A receptor full and partial agonists, probably especially because psychedelics are highly complex drugs that can also work through multiple channels at the same receptor, like it's possible to be a full agonist at one signalling pathway at the 5-HT2A receptor and a partial agonist or even antagonist at another.

The reason that NBOMes are used in scientific research is for their 5-HT2 receptor selectivity. The more receptor targets or other site a drug binds to than the specific one you're interested in, the less you can trust that the data from your research actually does have specific relevance to the receptor you're interested in compared to the other targets, making selective tools like the NBOMes significantly better for testing 5-HT2 receptor activity than almost any other psychedelics. The toxicity of NBOMes is not considered to be understood by any scientific body that I'm aware of. I wouldn't be surprised if it is through 5-HT2 receptors, but the explanation for how exactly it works would still not be entirely clear yet given that, as again psychedelics can do rather complex things at those receptors involving different affinities and efficacies for different pathways there simultaneously.

Salvia killed people too. Doesn’t matter that they (just) should have had a trip sister, it’s just same as saying (and I do claim so and am sure about it) that no one would have died from nbome’s if they were available only in microgram range doses prepared for nasal use and kept for very experienced people only.

You’re welcome to think those two situations are comparable if you like, but I personally do not.

Which are safe dissos and which not? Care to recommend?
Would be great to know which RC disso wont cause a lot, possibly reversible damage if used regularly or in high doses. Make some RC as popular as nbome’s, leave it on market for long enough and there's good chance it’ll turn out just as terrible as nbome, that’s the nature of the game, long gone are days of “research chemicals” that were really researched before becoming widespread, like 2c-b, αMT or 5-meo-dmt.... Sure you can convince yourself shit like if αMT was good and safe, 5-meo or 5-cloro must be too, you wish.. There’s some basic logic about what’s probably safe what’s probably not safe but before real research it’s just guessing and at level of users, usually just self delusion.

I don't use research chemical dissociatives because I have the exact same mindset about them that you do.

I also remember friend begging me to get 2c-x so he could make “new acid”, and it turned out it wasn’t “new acid” nor “better than mescaline”, in fact it was mostly just a “new cheap drug” almost always sold at best dosed at least 2 – 3x times too strong (part of reason for that is that blotters aren’t really perfect delivery form for sublingual use of drug) and at worst just as acid.

I didn’t really care too much for nbome’s but 300mics of 25c made for a great night, euphoric and with lot of music appreciation and few times mix of different nbome’s in mg range made for interesting but experience with a lot of body load, waaaaaaaaaaay more then bromodragonfly produces.

I never actually tried NBOMes myself so I have no direct opinion on them. I’m glad you got something out of them even if they weren’t the very best.

 

[cryptix420]

5g of pure NaGHB makes me super wired and anxious

Tried GHB many times over the course of 10 years...always the same. Super f'in weird

 

[foodcrisis]

Salvia killed people too. Doesn’t matter that they (just) should have had a trip sister, it’s just same as saying (and I do claim so and am sure about it) that no one would have died from nbome’s if they were available only in microgram range doses prepared for nasal use and kept for very experienced people only.

are the salvia deaths you are refering to because of actually over dosing on the drug or is it because of people hurting themselves during the trip or commiting suicide because of their experiences?

i'm googling and reading about some one jumping out a window because they were on salvia. that's the way the article sounds any ways. and then some kid that asphixiated himself supposedly because of what the trips were doing to the kids mind... other than that i'm reading on different sites that there are no known deaths because of salvia.

with the amount of info i'm finding on deaths, i'd still consider salvia to be a safe drug unless you are irresponsible or prone to the wrong kind of mental illness. maybe i'll think twice before recommending it on sites like this though.

 

[Kaleida]

are the salvia deaths you are refering to because of actually over dosing on the drug or is it because of people hurting themselves during the trip or commiting suicide because of their experiences?

i'm googling and reading about some one jumping out a window because they were on salvia. that's the way the article sounds any ways. and then some kid that asphixiated himself supposedly because of what the trips were doing to the kids mind... other than that i'm reading on different sites that there are no known deaths because of salvia.

with the amount of info i'm finding on deaths, i'd still consider salvia to be a safe drug unless you are irresponsible or prone to the wrong kind of mental illness. maybe i'll think twice before recommending it on sites like this though.

Salvinorin A is non-lethal even at dosages significantly higher than those that simply cause the user to black out. The only deaths you’re going to find are going to be one like you’ve found.

Salvia is an extremely powerful drug that should not be taken or recommended lightly. It’s just a different kind of risk than something like the NBOMes.

 

[pupnik]

love salvia, and have shared it and sat for at least 10 people.
enjoyed exploring nboxes (under 750ug) safely but never offered it to anyone

 

[SpiralusSancti]

are the salvia deaths you are refering to because of actually over dosing on the drug or is it because of people hurting themselves during the trip or commiting suicide because of their experiences?

As I wrote out trip sister would have prevented deaths from Salvia I think answer is obvious.

I might have personally prevented one such death as person who had it started going toward window and later told me how she felt some kind of intense pull toward it, not with a suicide in mind. Salvia dosed high in smoked form is just about only drug (except some tabs of acid that were dosed really unevenly and possibly been something else too; 1 tab didn’t do much but than 2 caused stronger experience than 450mics of tested lsd + 2c-b) that made me think – fuck, I’m loosing my mind, and I did a lot drugs, many times in huge doses. Salvia IS dangerous, if done alone for sure (and I wouldn’t really do it with someone else cuz of my preferences, and I’m not the only one who thinks so and takes such risk) by far more dangerous than nbome’s taken in normal dose. High dose of 3-meo-PCP psychosis/mind-fuck is great fun compared to what a small hit of 40x extract of salvia can cause.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Some of you might be too young to remember, but there’s a good chance “legal highs world” would have looked a lot different if there weren’t many cases of young people getting into Salvia and spices. It’s not that 3 cases of deaths and few lost limbs from bdf made nps such a big deal, it was countless problems with spices and videos of people doing stupid shit on Salvia and some even ending or getting injured. I’m in no way saying Salvia should have been banned (as I’m not for banning knifes too, maybe they can kill but can cut food too) but it did bring a lot of bad attention to legal highs.

 

[JackARoe]

Maybe this should be in the awkward moments thread but this thread is newer so I will put one experience here.

I had been thinking about this thread and did not know which way to type out an atypical trip. There have been so many. One was on morning glory seeds like the OP. Sort of delerious. I can think of a lot of trips that had me scratching my head.

But one fun story is when I went to the dentist in Houston Tx in 1985 to have 3 root canals done at the same time. I had a few of them done already and was no big deal. If anything it gets you out of pain. So here I am, early 20's and took 2 blotters 5 hours before the dentist. I went to the dentist. He gives me the full nitrous percentage. A headphone with the Beatles playing. In fact he lifts the headphones and says sit tight as he is going to increase the nitrous to the max and that I will be in the chair for about 2 hours. Gas hits, Acid kicks back in and I just about had an NDE. I felt like I died but was still here. (this is precisely why I wrote to NDERF.org and told them keep the stories to actual NDE's, not trips lol) But I remember being totally blown for a few hours. He finishes, the mask comes off. The gas as well as the acid were at a dull roar.

Here is where it gets interesting. My family owned Texaco stations off of I-10 in Houston at that time. One of the stations was at the Addicts exit (for anyone that knows Houston). I was on duty to be at the gas station after the dentist and was now abut 8 hours post acid. The guy that was working with me had to leave early, leaving a very stoned me to handle the people buying gas. So I was alone. I take two codeines the dentist gave me and tried to come down off the acid. A moment later many many motorcycles come roaring in to buy gas. It was a club. It was the Bandidos. They are not know for being nice. But this night I am all alone. About 92 motorcycles fill up with gas (about $3.00 a tank back then). At first I was a little nervous. But over course of the next hour and a half each Bandido came in and paid. They used the bathroom. All light and good. All was well and orderly and was amazing. So that was sort of atypical. lol

 

[Ismene2]

Big dose of 4 aco-dmt and decarbed weed - I had the distinct feeling the top of my skull had been removed and my brain was looking round in 360 degrees

 

[AlsoTapered]

With me it's a specific compound. The only thing 5-MeO DMT does for me is to make me feel like an elephant sat on me. That's why, when friends had 5-MeO AMT I turned it down.

Tryptamines seem to offer the ultimate psychedelic experience. 7,N,N-TMT is much like DMT but as someone else has noted 'with training wheels'. It's a friendlier compound possibly because it also affects monoamine transport.

If you have the stomach for it, DPT is VERY good but considering to the doses required, I cannot see it ever being common.

We did make & test quite a few 7-methyl tryptamine derivatives and it's perfectly possible to emulate MDA and yet at a dose of 40mg as opposed to 80mg. Now THAT could make it interesting. Specifically it was (S) 7-Methyl AMT. The (R) isomer was a pure 5HT2a ligand i.e. trippy but I cannot help thinking that if you resolve the stuff, you end up with twice as many dose units.... which makes me think it WILL end up 'in the wild'.

Of course we didn't conduct enough research to confirm the safety of 7-methyl AMT but 1960s Upjohn papers show that 7-methyl AET is an MAOI. Yet AET was sold as MDA for years without any serious issues. I just flinch whenever MAOI activity is introduced.

It's like our study of ring-substituted aminorex derivatives. We did try the 4MAR derivatives because we were warned (by Dr. Nichols) who stated '4MAR derivatives have MAOI activity'. We proceeded with ring-substituted AR derivatives... and he has our papers somewhere.

 

[foodcrisis]

With me it's a specific compound. The only thing 5-MeO DMT does for me is to make me feel like an elephant sat on me. That's why, when friends had 5-MeO AMT I turned it down.

Tryptamines seem to offer the ultimate psychedelic experience. 7,N,N-TMT is much like DMT but as someone else has noted 'with training wheels'. It's a friendlier compound possibly because it also affects monoamine transport.

If you have the stomach for it, DPT is VERY good but considering to the doses required, I cannot see it ever being common.

We did make & test quite a few 7-methyl tryptamine derivatives and it's perfectly possible to emulate MDA and yet at a dose of 40mg as opposed to 80mg. Now THAT could make it interesting. Specifically it was (S) 7-Methyl AMT. The (R) isomer was a pure 5HT2a ligand i.e. trippy but I cannot help thinking that if you resolve the stuff, you end up with twice as many dose units.... which makes me think it WILL end up 'in the wild'.

Of course we didn't conduct enough research to confirm the safety of 7-methyl AMT but 1960s Upjohn papers show that 7-methyl AET is an MAOI. Yet AET was sold as MDA for years without any serious issues. I just flinch whenever MAOI activity is introduced.

It's like our study of ring-substituted aminorex derivatives. We did try the 4MAR derivatives because we were warned (by Dr. Nichols) who stated '4MAR derivatives have MAOI activity'. We proceeded with ring-substituted AR derivatives... and he has our papers somewhere.

i was wondering if 5meo dmt had a body load. i figured it was always more popular than salvia because it didn't. i've never heard about that feeling of being crushed before. i get that hardcore after a salvia trip.

5meo-amt didn't really have that at all for me. it was just like a regular acid trip IMO. i had a kind of weird feeling like eth-lad until i started to trip really hard on it and not notice. 5meo-amt can last a really long time, but it's not really dysphoric like being crushed or anything. mostly a smooth trip with a lot of visuals for me. i can see the length getting confusing on higher doses, but i was lucky enough to make it through those trips with no problems.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I believe 5MeO DMT is a 'pressor amine' and my experience isn't unique. In a way it was good. It could sit in my freezer for months and when a hippie friend showed up, I could offer it.

I seem to be in the minority. But I gave it a good try and decided it didn't suit. I wonder if that wide-ranging patents on the tryptamines covers the 5-MeO derivatives? If so, it's a weakness UNLESS they specify the problems.... otherwise one can reasonably suggest that they MADE it but didn't try it (even in animal models).

 

[tryptakid]

Some years ago I worked for an organization that was involved with Pride because we provided HIV treatment. As a result, I was asked if I wanted to march in the parade along with colleagues and some of our upper management at the non profit where I was working.

This is pre -CoVID and I am pretty fucling single, bored, and well stocked with 1P-LSD. I got dressed up in rainbow work-wear and threw on some vibrant reflective sunglasses, dropping 250mcg and taking the T into back bay

The come-up hits as I am crossing Back Bay and into Copley Square, suddenly noticing how psychedelic culture had just saturated this event... It felt like a rave during the day time and no one was giving any ficks, I could just hide my tripping eyes behind my reflective sunglasses and extrovert all I wanted.

I find my team and we are setting up our march orde; the Sisters of Perpetual indulgence happen to be near us and we hang out a bit, come to find they took a liking to me and offered to recruit me if I wished.

I was beaming, a mostly straight cis dude having the time of his life on some of Canada's finest lysergimides. At one point I spoke with my CEO and COO about something of little consequence "this is great, yeah!" But it was so loud and bombastic all around that I could not help but look normal.


I remember marching the route that day, tripping face and just loving the absurdity every moment . I must've given ten thousand high fives and just loved every moment of it. Later, I decided that I had most certainly fucked up and not gone the path of a parade marshall as a young amine.

I will never forget taking to my CEO while just faced on 2 microdots of 1p while she had no idea I felt magnanimous

 

[HOOH]

7,N,N-TMT is much like DMT but as someone else has noted 'with training wheels'. It's a friendlier compound possibly because it also affects monoamine transport.

tell me more about this compound, I am always interested in these very rare but structurally quite simple tryptamines. Much like DMT as in?

The (R) isomer was a pure 5HT2a ligand i.e. trippy but I cannot help thinking that if you resolve the stuff, you end up with twice as many dose units.... which makes me think it WILL end up 'in the wild'.

I don't think so, making the actual indole is too much work, even aMT is relatively rare.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Well indole-3-carbaldehyde is commercially available. So it's cost, not complexity that makes aMT rare where you are. I ended up with a lot of it and just wanted rid.

But their are animal studies on 7,N,N-DMT that state that it substitutes for DMT and 'produces similar effects' by which I mean they watched mice on DMT and then on 7-methyl DMT and decided it was 'similar'. Not a precise term, is it?

I guess it's got a larger RANGE of effects from almost an entactogen right up to the full on psychedelic 'meet the pixies' levels. I don't think 20mg of DMT does much... whereas 7-methyl-DMT has a mood brightening effect. I suppose MDA is the closest. You go up and up and up until your 'love drug' turns into a trip.

In short - it was positive enough for use to make 7-methyl aMT. We resolved the isomers and found one is psychedelic, one is an entactogen. Somewhat like MDA I suppose.

But low-dose 7-methyl aMT has a lot of value as an antidepressant. We kept doing this. TRYING to design drugs of abuse... and discovering medicines. I mean we were pleased, but we knew it wasn't QUITE on message.

After all, Pyrazolam isn't 'fun' but it's the safest anxiolytic I know of. Yet another example of a failure. Nobody bought it to mong out - 95% of people bought if for anxiety!

 

[HOOH]

Well indole-3-carbaldehyde is commercially available

Yeah but the 7-methylated analog is not.

But their are animal studies on 7,N,N-DMT that state that it substitutes for DMT and 'produces similar effects' by which I mean they watched mice on DMT and then on 7-methyl DMT and decided it was 'similar'. Not a precise term, is it?

I see. Animal studies. They're always disappointing but oh well. I'm sure harmine or something like that would substitute for DMT in animal studies.

I don't think 20mg of DMT does much

20mg of DMT absolutely does much. In fact the people of the legendary Strassman study received dosages raging from 0.2 to 0.4 mg/kg, so 15 to 30 mg for a 75kg person. Now, that's for IV, and as far as smoking goes, this rather verbally eloquent text from D.M. Turner's book The Essential Psychedelic Guide has this to say:

If one smokes a smaller amount of N,N-DMT, say around 20 mg., they will tend to experience only the visual aspect of the high, without getting in touch with gnomes and discarnate entities. Following is a friend's description of DMT visuals produced by smoking 20 mg. doses every 20 to 30 minutes. "The vibration is still very strong at this level and objects in the room become cartoonish and jeweled with rotating 'pools' of interlocked spiraling gems on wall surfaces and ceiling. At the peak of the 20 mg. tokes, brilliantly changing latticework becomes apparent within. A gooey liquid of phosphorescent brilliance knits itself into neon lattices of emerald green and iridescent blue against a molten gold background. Always changing, always new, always novel, these geometric storms of shape and color never cease to amaze me with their beauty and intricacy; something one can FEEL as well as see. Clouds of molten gold liquid, boiling, seethe into arabesques and chainwork networks. Each node of each net and lattice form a jeweled point of incredible pure color, all rotating and pulsating through the eyes, brain, and stomach, as one becomes a transparent electric ghost deciphering mysto-glyphs for eternity! "

That's certainly a mood brightening effect

In short - it was positive enough for use to make 7-methyl aMT. We resolved the isomers and found one is psychedelic, one is an entactogen. Somewhat like MDA I suppose.

But low-dose 7-methyl aMT has a lot of value as an antidepressant. We kept doing this. TRYING to design drugs of abuse... and discovering medicines. I mean we were pleased, but we knew it wasn't QUITE on message.

Interesting, may ask in what kind of a laboratory setting do you work in? Also does 7-Me-aMT have anything that aMT, 5-MeO-aMT, or the billion phenethylamines lack?

 

[dydst]

It’s neat; I always wondered how a psychedelics that activate a similar group of receptors could have such divergent subjective effects. I just recently learned about the concept of functional selectivity, and wondered if perhaps psychedelics that act on the same receptor might it in different ways, producing the different effects we know classic psychedelics to cause.

 

[HOOH]

It’s neat; I always wondered how a psychedelics that activate a similar group of receptors could have such divergent subjective effects. I just recently learned about the concept of functional selectivity, and wondered if perhaps psychedelics that act on the same receptor might it in different ways, producing the different effects we know classic psychedelics to cause.

Functional selective is definitively important, but there are a lot of other things. There are a lot more receptors than just 2A, and in addition to that preconceived expectations play a major part. I think for an example the dichotomy between "artificial" and "natural"-feeling psychedelics (e. psilocin vs 4-AcO-DMT) is completely in the user's head.

 

[Jabberwocky]

The weirdest psychedelic experience I had was from an unknown drug. It was liquid that was being passed around as LSD in a psychedelic-naive crowd, but a few people had bad experiences apparently, so a friend gave me the bottle for free. There was a small amount of crystals precipitating out of solution at the bottom of the bottle, so I knew immediately it wasn't LSD.

One night I got drunk and took 2 hits of this mysterious liquid out of curiosity, before I had a chance to test it.

It was a fairly enjoyable trip, albeit weird. Very tactile and sensory, but lacking in the visuals department, which were mostly absent other than perceptual distortions... anyways the strangest thing happened with colors. This drug made my vision go black and white. Greyscale. Colors were just GONE. Yet, there were waves of color that would come back, almost as if someone was using a paintbrush across my vision, one color at a time, but I remember purple most commonly. Brushing the colors back in, which would then fade back to greyscale. This lasted a good 6 hours at least.

Now, I do have a type of colorblindness called "deuteranopia", which means my green and red trichromes overlap. Thus, green and red colors confuse me; sometimes they look like the same color, sometimes it's difficult to distinguish between orange/red or green/brown... but I see all other colors just fine. It's not like total colorblindness at all.

This experience was so bizzare, seeing in black in white, and opposite to every other trip I've had which are always extremely colorful in nature.

I never did figure out what that mystery drug was. I threw the bottle away shortly afterwards for unrelated reasons. Possibly some 2-Cx derivative, or something more exotic, is my guess. It did not feel like a tryptamine or any nBOME.

 

[TimTim1993]

I once bought two grams of 60x Salvia off the Internet from the Netherlands and it took about a week and a half to arrive, it was in a soft package labeled as green tea for disguise. I grabbed my bowl, packed a fat one and took a big rip off of it, as I was holding the smoke in it hit me, as I exhaled I couldn't see the smoke but next thing I knew I forgot that I was a human being and I felt like I was an object or apart of the floor, my body felt like everything shut down like I was dead and i thought I was something other than a human. I play guitar and i grabbed my guitar by the neck and in my mind I thought the guitar was crying to have me let go of it like a human neck. This scared the shit out of me but I couldn't move, gravity or some force was holding me down to the floor until I started coming down. As I got up I went to the door and forgot how to unlock the door.