EADD Benzo Discussion V. Waking up in a Wakefield skip

[axe battler]

You cannot OD on etizolam - the dose/response curve plateaus above 4mg. Which equates to around 10mg of diazepam.

The media once again gets it WRONG.

I don't think it's responsible to say you can't OD on etizolam in an absolute sense.
I'm certain that with low tolerance and if you mix with opiates and/or alcohol, etizolam could contribute to an OD. In fact I believe I've seen it with my own eyes.
Interesting point though, is that to say that there's no point in taking over 4mg etizolam, as they stop getting any stronger in FX over this? I'm quite sure that isn't correct either tbh, as someone whose abused them in handfuls in the past myself, I really think 8mg has more of an effect than 4mg for me, personally.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I don't think it's responsible to say you can't OD on etizolam in an absolute sense.
I'm certain that with low tolerance and if you mix with opiates and/or alcohol, etizolam could contribute to an OD. In fact I believe I've seen it with my own eyes.
Interesting point though, is that to say that there's no point in taking over 4mg etizolam, as they stop getting any stronger in FX over this? I'm quite sure that isn't correct either tbh, as someone whose abused them in handfuls in the past myself, I really think 8mg has more of an effect than 4mg for me, personally.

Well you are welcome to the long list of references I employed. I presume you KNEW it was etizolam, not just an untested pill?

 

[elgoucho9]

Well you are welcome to the long list of references I employed. I presume you KNEW it was etizolam, not just an untested pill?

Let's see the references that say you cant od on a mix of etizolam and opiates then please?

I agree with @axe battler 10mg etiz definitely feels stronger than 5mg. After a certain point I black out heavy with etizolam the only thing i can compare the blackouts to is overdosing alprazolam.

 

[AlsoTapered]

No such paper exists - you can mix ANYTHING. But some things you don't get to try twice.

You also dodged the question as to were they authentic etizolam tablets? Had them tested, did you?

 

[elgoucho9]

No such paper exists - you can mix ANYTHING. But some things you don't get to try twice.

You also dodged the question as to were they authentic etizolam tablets? Had them tested, did you?

That wasn't me you were replying to I haven't dodged any questions.

The pills that killed a load of people in Scotland were on wedinos at the time tested etizolam. At that time nearly all fake diazepam was showing as etizolam, with a smaller amount showing flubromazepam.

 

[AlsoTapered]

So you haven't actually read the coroners reports then - to check it WAS etizolam in the pills. 'nearly all' isn't any kind of proof.

MOST people mixed them and were fine - suggesting that the minority is something more hazardous.

 

[elgoucho9]

There's literally hundreds of cases of it happening in a year in Scotland to look through. It is clear from the reports like I already said this is a case of poly drug use, with less than 1% of them being etizolam alone. So like many people already said its very likely it reacts badly when combined with other drugs.

A Case Series of Etizolam in Opioid-Related Deaths - PubMed

Etizolam is a novel psychoactive substance and novel benzodiazepine of the thienotriazolodiazepine class, which has recently seen an increasing trend in use worldwide. We report a case series of 10 decedents with etizolam and opioids in their systems. Death investigation, expanded toxicology and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The emcdda reports worth reading too. Just Google "etizolam deaths" and it pops up.

Well you are welcome to the long list of references I employed. I presume you KNEW it was etizolam, not just an untested pill?

Where is this long list of references that proves no one can die when etizolam is being used?

From my own experience saying that 4mg etizolam is the ceiling dose and the same as 10mg Diazepam doesn't wash. I blacked out completely and wrecked my own house on less than 10mg etizolam. It wouldn't be possible for that to happen with 20mg or less of diazepam.

 

[axe battler]

Well you are welcome to the long list of references I employed. I presume you KNEW it was etizolam, not just an untested pill?

So you haven't actually read the coroners reports then - to check it WAS etizolam in the pills. 'nearly all' isn't any kind of proof.

MOST people mixed them and were fine - suggesting that the minority is something more hazardous.

Yes, I got the coroner's report. It was my late fiancée. She was mixing with small amounts of methadone. Definitely contributed.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I am so sorry for your loss.

 

[axe battler]

Thanks man. Was just saying it could be dangerous to be spreading round you cannot OD on etizolam. Maybe not by itself but drink/opiates could definitely push you over.
I'm surprised by the 4mg max dose response though. If you've got a source I'd check it out, but I'm fairly sure I've felt more effects from talking doses above 4mg than I would from just 4mg.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Sure - I never claimed their was no risk, but that it appears to be safer than most benzos.

If taking 8 makes it MUCH more potent, I'm wondering if it was etizolam. But I did also note that their may be some as-yet unrecognized interaction.

Is the dope now so bad that it needs a 'push'?

 

[axe battler]

Sure - I never claimed their was no risk, but that it appears to be safer than most benzos.

If taking 8 makes it MUCH more potent, I'm wondering if it was etizolam. But I did also note that their may be some as-yet unrecognized interaction.

Is the dope now so bad that it needs a 'push'?

Not necessarily, friends of mine are getting good "fishy tackle" ATM but depends on your tolerance and sources.
I'm on 80ml meffy ATM so doesn't do much for me, but has friends of mine drawling their speech and nodding.

 

[AlsoTapered]

And this IS etizolam? Well, that DOES suggest an interaction with opioids.

BTW weren't you on more juice before? Did you cut down?

 

[steewith2ees]

Yes, I got the coroner's report. It was my late fiancée. She was mixing with small amounts of methadone. Definitely contributed.

I cannot believe what I am reading. Among the numerous inklings I was tempted to try and contribute to the passionate disagreement above, which I feel is, unlike the historical dicksizing I and others used to put up with when being corrected by professional drug experts, the product of people who care about real experiences, experiences that just cannot be reduced to what will always be snapshot studies in a huge, uncontrolled mass chemistry experiment, regardless of their validity, I never thought I would be responding to this.

My disbelief comes not from any doubt as to what happened but from my horror that it did. I fucking hated etizolam. I used to buy a few strips of etizest and etilaam here and there and thought it was the worst benzo (I know its not technically a BZD but you know what I mean). I needed at least half a strip to feel anything and IMO it had a shorter DOA than midazolam. I always knew it was a personal thing mind as there is no denying how popular the drug was.

I do not know what to say Axe, apart from how much all of that must fucking suck. I cannot even begin to imagine such a robbery of life bud xx

 

[axe battler]

I cannot believe what I am reading. Among the numerous inklings I was tempted to try and contribute to the passionate disagreement above, which I feel is, unlike the historical dicksizing I and others used to put up with when being corrected by professional drug experts, the product of people who care about real experiences, experiences that just cannot be reduced to what will always be snapshot studies in a huge, uncontrolled mass chemistry experiment, regardless of their validity, I never thought I would be responding to this.

My disbelief comes not from any doubt as to what happened but from my horror that it did. I fucking hated etizolam. I used to buy a few strips of etizest and etilaam here and there and thought it was the worst benzo (I know its not technically a BZD but you know what I mean). I needed at least half a strip to feel anything and IMO it had a shorter DOA than midazolam. I always knew it was a personal thing mind as there is no denying how popular the drug was.

I do not know what to say Axe, apart from how much all of that must fucking suck. I cannot even begin to imagine such a robbery of life bud xx

Thanks Stee buddy. I feel bad sometimes pulling that out of the deck, but it's what happened, sadly.
It's fucked up what happened, and even more fucked up that I still crave benzodiazepines every day I don't have them
Little bit of a catch 22 I'm in there, but I've got as much chance of being prescribed benzos as I do sprouting wings.
Hope you're well man. It's always good to see you post x

 

[AlsoTapered]

Wow - I'm prescribed stacks of clobazam but don't take it. after 8 weeks my epilepsy was back AND I then had a benzo habit.

Same with the OCs. worked for a while and then they stop working and you have an opioid habit.

should have trusted fast&bulbous - MXE works and while it will cause tolerance and dependence, it's still the best. OK don't drive or operate heavy machinery while under it's influence, but agony to fine in 30 seconds.

Interested by the thought of 3-MeO PCPy. 1mg every 8 hours should work.

 

[Bleaney]

I don't agree that there is a plateau above 4mg of etizolam. I was taking heavy doses for quite a prolonged period, maybe 1-2 years, and would definitely get far more heavily 'zonked' off higher doses. It was that heavy fuckedness which I enjoyed at that time, and constantly chasing that, along with increasing tolerance was what kept pushing my doses higher. I found I pm I'd sent to someone stating that I was using 45mg of etiz at that time. I wouldn't have used that much if 4mg was just as effective.

There might be some kind of diminishing returns going on, in that the first 4mg might be the most effective for anxiety and insomnia, but as tolerance increases the dose keeps going up in order to achieve the same effects.

Although I suppose tolerance is a different issue and @AlsoTapered is referring to doses with no tolerance? Even still, I'm pretty sure that even with little to no tolerance doses above 4mg would clearly feel stronger. If the studies suggest this, I don't think they're right.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I don't think it's responsible to say you can't OD on etizolam in an absolute sense.
I'm certain that with low tolerance and if you mix with opiates and/or alcohol, etizolam could contribute to an OD. In fact I believe I've seen it with my own eyes.
Interesting point though, is that to say that there's no point in taking over 4mg etizolam, as they stop getting any stronger in FX over this? I'm quite sure that isn't correct either tbh, as someone whose abused them in handfuls in the past myself, I really think 8mg has more of an effect than 4mg for me, personally.

Even a small amount of opiates/alcohol can turn the relatively benign benzos into killer drugs.

Yeh, I know etizolam isn't strictly a benzodiazepine, but the effects profile is the same and so are the risks.

I personally found it to be a bit shit and never really understood what all the fuss was about, even in combination with gear/methadone/booze. But I can totally get how it could contribute to a lethal overdose...

 

[AlsoTapered]

Well - etizolam is more selective and if 100% of the receptors it CAN fill ARE filled, it cannot do more. Of course, chronic use will result in the body actually producing MORE receptors which I hadn't considered. So someone relentlessly using etizolam will push that plateau up.... but it's a slow process.

 

[axe battler]

Even a small amount of opiates/alcohol can turn the relatively benign benzos into killer drugs.

Yeh, I know etizolam isn't strictly a benzodiazepine, but the effects profile is the same and so are the risks.

I personally found it to be a bit shit and never really understood what all the fuss was about, even in combination with gear/methadone/booze. But I can totally get how it could contribute to a lethal overdose...

I like etizolam, but I have a liking for all benzos. They turn me into an idiot though.