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Lysergamides Make your own 1-acetaldehyde LSD at home from LSD, very similar to ALD-52 or the real orange sunshine

tregar

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Make your own 1-acetaldehyde LSD at home from LSD, very similar to ALD-52 or the real orange sunshine

Timestop said:
Quote:


Tregar do you still like to take 1-acetaldehyde LSD via the sherry wine method? I don't have any cactus at the moment to combine it with but I am wanting to give it a go versus normal LSD, how long is the mixture good for if stored?


Good to hear from you my friend Timestop, was just thinking about you! Yes, it's the only way I take LSD, 1-acetaldehyde LSD is no different than ALD-52, same exact effects. Just drop your LSD hits into a shot glass with 1/2 shot of cold sherry wine, put it in fridge and just stir it with a straw every so often around once an hour for 3 hours, the acetaldehyde in the wine will adduct onto the bottom NH group, as aldehydes are easily attracted to NH like a magnet, and bond well under acidic conditions, drink as such. You will love the effects, flowing visuals, no choppy visuals like normal LSD, way more colorful, look up ALD-52 on the net, same exact effects as ALD-52, people preferred ALD-52 over LSD as it was without anxiety, you could take much higher doses with no confusion, more colorful with flowing visuals...Albert Hofman himself invented ALD-52. The "electricity" of LSD is replaced with a more natural feeling. The man-made feeling of LSD vanishes and becomes more nature like.

You can leave the shot glass with wine and LSD hits in fridge and it will keep for weeks, or freeze and it will keep forever, then just defrost an hour before in the fridge, as it's wine it will defrost fast, then drink it. Always keep cold as acetaldehyde boils off around room temp or 70 degree F.

Another thing you must try is then take around 100mg of pure THH or tetrahydroharmine at the same time as you take the 1-acetaldehyde LSD, she (thh) has numerous similarities to mescaline, and the combination of the two is absolutely incredible, it will feel as though you took a dose of mescaline with your LSD, THH + 1-acetaldehyde LSD is the only way I ever take LSD, I've done this for years...it's so bad ass and super cheap combo.

You can find studies for the bonding of the acetaldehyde to the NH group if you go to this link and read the 9th paper on post #1, Tryptophan analogues form adducts by cooperative reaction with aldehydes and alcohols or with aldehydes alone, 1992 Austin.pdf 780.97KB: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27850299

I've also attached the study here for convenience.

Not only will acetaldehyde bond to the bottom NH on the indole of LSD, but it can bond to the H on the amide of LSA, forming LSH, more than 5 studies all prove this happens, even the 1960 study by Arcamone, all papers in link above.

From post #19: https://mycotopia.net/topic/111610-hpbcd-dmt-sublingually-active-under-tongue/

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Part 15: How to theoretically form 1-acetaldehyde LSD (similar to ALD-52 or 1-acetyl LSD, Orange Sunshine) from LSD hits
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1-acetaldehyde LSD (nearly identical to ALD-52) will theoretically form when you drop hits of LSD into 1 shot of fridge cold just opened sherry wine, stir once an hour for 3 hours, keep in fridge at all times, as acetaldehyde boils off at room temp or 69 degree F, then consume...all explained below:

Sherry wine is high in acetaldehyde (10mg per 30ml or shot glass). This serves as an advantage...why is this important?

Page 8441:

Quote:


Reaction of Indole with Acetaldehyde: A 0.2% solution of indole in equal amounts of water, ethanol, and acetaldehyde formed a product with 60% yield after 1 hour of reaction at ambient temperature. Omitting the ethanol (50% acetaldehyde in water mixture) had no effect.

Decreasing the concentration of acetaldehyde to 0.1% increased the reaction rate and percent yield of product.



See pic of the researcher's indole + acetaldehyde adduct product formed before (page 8439) and after (page 8441).

The researchers achieved a new product with or without the use of ethanol, it made no difference, you only need water acidified to around ph=4 and around a 0.1% acetaldehyde solution, and around a 3 hour soak time for 100% conversion.

Sherry wine fits the bill perfectly with it's high acetaldehyde content, and low ph, which is already at ph=4, just like the study calls for. The researchers stated "the lower the PH, the faster the reaction (indole adduct formation at the NH group)." It contains the perfect amount of acetaldehyde as well, in an alcoholic medium no less.

It is quite possible that 1-acetaldehyde LSH and 1-acetaldehyde penniclavine produce stronger visual trips with zero anxiety. This has been my experience with the seed solution and also my experience when converting 3 x 100ug blotters of LSD to 1-acetaldehyde LSD (have done this over 10 times already spaced at least two weeks apart during the past two years), also confirmed recently by Namaste at the Shroomery to work for him as well, now his preferred method of consuming LSD as well.

Once you know your morning glory seeds are potent, you could also throw in a blotter or more of LSD into the sherry wine/morning glory seed solution soaking in the fridge for 3 hours, not only will this convert the LSD to the more visual, colorful and anxiety free 1-acetaldehyde LSD but it can result in a trip way beyond normal LSD. Example below:

Dragonrider:

Quote:


I have also experimented with morning glory seeds a lot. A couple of times the seeds came very close to LSD. I have combined morning glory seeds with other psychedelics. On a few occasions, they boosted the effects of psychedelics enormously and very few seeds where actually needed to create this effect.

Once a mere 30 seeds were enough to cause an overwhelming OBE on LSD, paired with the most insane visuals and a defragmentation of the mind like i have never experienced ever since. I am convinced that there is a substance in fresh morning glories, and maybe it is LSH or penniclavine, that modulates receptors that are being activated by psychedelics in such a way that it can boost the effects of other psychedelics.



How 1-acetaldehyde LSD is different from LSD:

1) You know how acid has that sudden drop off then you are back to sobriety? Instead, this lasts longer than acid and has a warm gentle transition back over a longer period. The come up is also gradual and smooth similar to cactus.

2) 1-acetaldehyde LSD is way more colorful than acid, similar to mescaline.

3) 1-acetaldehyde LSD does not have the "visual choppiness" of acid, but is flowing in the visuals.

4) LSD produces tracers with multiples of shadows of the hand, this produces not only tracers, but colored fractals and mosaics inside the tracers.

5) LSD produces "colored specs that flow in front of everything", this produces instead "fine colored rainbow reflections" that surround everything.

6) Music sounds good on acid, but music sounds great on this, like a whole nother world, similar to mescaline.

7) With 1-acetaldehyde LSD, everything seems alive and magical. Patterns & neon colors form everywhere, the shifting of textures is magical. You can lose yourself easily as the visuals seem to drag your focus in without any effort. As a result, ego death is basically spontaneous.

8] Sometimes LSD causes wandering thoughts & can seem abrasively analytical but with 1-acetaldehyde LSD there is no wandering thoughts, no tenseness or anxiety like with acid, this is deep mentally, a real gem, pure psychedelic bliss. LSD feels man-made, this feels very primitive, archaic and natural.

9) 300ug of 1-aceteldehyde LSD taken with 400g of fresh boiled thick bridgesii cactus pieces (no core, approximately 200mg mescaline) feel instead closer to the effects of 400mg + of mescaline, when also combined with 100mg to 300mg of pure THH or tetrahydroharmine (100mg is plenty !). Always take the cactus 1st, then take the THH 1 hour later --> only in that order so that the SRI which is THH does not clash with the trace maoi's in cactus.

I think this has to do with the possibility that 1-acetaldehyde LSD shifts the receptorome or radioligand binding of receptors "slightly away from 5-ht2a" and stronger towards the adrenal A2A, A2B, and A2C spectrum instead. This adrenal spectrum (A2A-A2C) is also the stronger dominance or habitat as well for mescaline & dmt & psilocin when compared to 5-ht2a, which is only midway on the spectrum, with the adrenal spectrum (associated with beauty & aesthetic enhancement) being more dominant with all these natural entheogens.

10) It is not a sacrilege to convert LSD to 1-acetaldehyde LSD cause Albert Hofmann also discovered ALD-52 at Sandoz labs. This is different from ALD-52 cause it has one extra hydrogen on the acetaldehyde adduct at the bottom indole NH group nitrogen.

12) LSD is more "analytical" and not as aesthetic, this feels more natural and is extremely aesthetic (beauty enhancing) like with mescaline.

Sample ALD-52 trip report:

hxxps://www.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/4ynu/highly_underestimated_ald52/


Quote:


Yes, I realize it's not technically LSD but really, it might as well be. I took 300ug thinking it would be mild if anything. Granted it wasn't as intense mentally as LSD can sometimes be, but conceptually and aesthetically it is beautiful beyond anything I ever anticipated. I feel perfect. At one. Better than I've felt in so long. I thought I could never trip again on anything but this is honestly paradigm changing for me. ALD-52 should be considered just as powerful as LSD-25 although it's a lot more relaxed and somewhat forgiving. As it is probably apparent I'm still very deep into this experience and I hope this to be an open discussion to anyone who would like to be involved.

My god, I just went through multiple ego death experiences beyond anything I've ever experienced from LSD before. There are no words. I mean there are plenty of "words" but none of them mean a single thing compared to any of THAT. Dear GOD. I never expected anything like this, but I sure as hell needed it. Even if I'm the only one here to express it to, as that's realistically the truth of nature anyhow. However, anyone who felt compelled to actually read through all this insanity, I just want you to know you're beautiful and you are everything. All things are right and they always will be.

Anyway, as far as the ALD-52, I took 300ug as I said. It was amazing and stronger than I expected, however I don't think 100ug would be very eventful to be perfectly honest. If you're concerned about it being too strong 200 might be worth it but 300 was really a great amount if you ask me. Even if you haven't taken any lysergamides before ALD-52 is rather calm compared to LSD or even mushrooms for the most part. Visually though, at least for me, it was absolutely breathtaking. Colors and textures were shifting like crazy.

Everything was alive and magical. Patterns were forming everywhere. I could lose myself so easily as the visuals seemed to drag my focus in without any effort. As a result, ego death was basically automatic and I reached that point multiple times. The first time I ever experienced ego death on LSD it left me with this beautiful feeling, like a deep inner glow that lasted for months afterwards. It eventually faded and I hadn't felt anything quite like it in years, but ALD-52 brought it back, and I feel like I've awakened from a spiritual coma.

Another thing is LSD sometimes causes my mind to wander uncontrollably unless I take my own initiative to focus, especially during the come up which can also sometimes fill me with restless confusion. Once I peak everything usually evens out, but ALD-52 put me in a state of perfect clarity from beginning to end. The come up was so smooth and comfortable.

I didn't notice the come down because I actually went to sleep when I felt like it was time to do so, which was an interesting surprise. Every time I've taken LSD I've had to let it run its entire course before even attempting to sleep. Often I would have to stay up for the entire day after which is obviously physically and mentally exhausting. But once I felt like the ALD-52 had made its point I went to sleep just like any other day, and woke up the next morning fully rested and mentally clear.

Overall, it felt very natural and I never had a single moment of uncomfortability or confusion. Just pure psychedelic bliss. I mean, I've had some amazing and extremely important experiences on LSD but honestly after the other night, think I prefer ALD-52. It felt like tripping for the first time again.



Random comments found on reddit to back up my dozen experiences with 1-acetaldehyde LSD (nearly identical to ALD-52) over two years:

1) Pandemoon said:


Quote:


I dosed ALD52 like 100+ times throughout the last 4 or 5 years, in doses between 25ug and 350ug.

While ALD52 is very similar to LSD25, I think I can still see a slight difference. To me the visuals are different, especially the tracers. I can clearly see a difference there.

With 200ug+ of ALD52, when I move my hand it shows some very colorfull spirals and fractals in the tracer /smearing.

While with LSD25 it is just a mirroring effect that shows several of my hands. Not nearly as colorfull, just a non colored shadow (or several) of the real hand.

With ALD52 it's much more colorfull and intense, like painting the air with rainbow colors.

100ug or even 150ug don't really show a difference at all to LSD25, but with 300ug and above (my highest dose was 350ug) the differences are even more intense.

With 350ug I can hardly see reality anymore due to all those colorfull reflections of anything I look at.

I think the higher the dose the clearer the differences.



Quote:
Quote:


2) ALD-52 is probably most similar to LSD relative to the other analogues (of which I have only tried ALD-52). The headspace is markedly psychedelic, it lasts 12 hours and the visuals are prominent enough. They seemed to take on a more flowing characteristic than LSD, to where I'd see objects form within the patterns.

3) I find it has a more mellow vibe than LSD, I'm more content to sit back and relax whereas 1p is supposedly closer to the electricity of LSD.

4) For what it's worth, I found the come down of ALD-52 to be better than LSD... it just felt more refreshing, like a warm hug and it tapers off gently whereas LSD is more of a sudden drop off into sobriety, but the actual peak of LSD feels more... alive to me. like my consciousness is oscillating at a super high vibration.

5) ALD-52 is more euphoric than LSD-25 or 1p, and I find it's also less prone to creating anxiety. Because of this, I feel like I can take much higher doses and go much deeper. I took 5 tabs and experienced absolutely no anxiety at all. I don't think I would have been able to to do the same with 25 or 1p.

6) Hmmm. I seem to get much more euphoria from ALD-52 over 1p. But yes, the anxiety levels are consistently low with this chemical. ALD-52 is an absolute gem.

7) Agree. I feel like it's a subtle power, not as forceful as 1p. But there's genuine depth to it.
I'll be the first to admit it may be placebo, but I also favor ALD-52 for this reason.

8] I am very fond of ALD-52 as well! For me, the headspace was very much like LSD#25; however, I felt like the former of the two had potential for a really crazy headspace. ALD-52 also had me seeing three different colors that I'd never seen in my life. I saw red-greens, orange-blues, and of course the fucking purple-yellows.

9) NoticesMemesOwO:
ALD is MUCH calmer than 1P in every way. 1P tends to have a shitload of anxiety on the come up and tachycardia for me and my group of friends. Its very visual but also very scary at times. especially at high doses. ALD is the best IMO. I prefer it over the real thing honestly. At high doses it was very tame, had a great visual set, and no anxiety at all. very welcoming in the way it gets you. I would pick ALD all day long, and i could take or leave 1P in all honesty.

10) Doubledog said:
My friends had some ALD52 blotters few years ago and described it as slightly more visual, and not so stimulating, and as upgraded version of LSD, but with just small difference.



11) Namaste from Shroomery (has many years experience with LSD) said:

Quote:


Tregar, I think you're on to something here. The 1-acetaldehyde LSD I made following your instructions dropping 3 hits or 300ug in 1 shot of sherry wine in the fridge with stirring once per hour was extremely chill. Soft around the edges. When I started coming down, it felt like 10 years of therapy.

I remembered good times, felt compassion. Listened to music I haven't listened to in years. Thought about friends, was at peace in a way that I haven't felt before.

The stars formed into animated constellations. My Bodhi statue began to juggle. I saw the Perseidies meteors not just out of the corner of my eyes but right over my face while lying in a hammock. Saw the entire movement from start to finish. They looked like giant arrows.

Stayed awake all day, went out to visit friends. It was very happy nostalgia. Sometimes larger doses make me totally black out. Not this time, I was awake and aware. No primal fear or paranoia.

Felt like I was still peaking seven hours after dropping. Sometimes I get a cracked out, confused feeling, not this time.

Haven't seen neon colors like that since the one and only time I was puddled.

Sunday's are generally filled with dread and depression for the following week. Experienced none of that. Just a long lasting afterglow. Still in a great mood now. I did get a pretty severe headache but I also drink like it's my job, and I am on a SSRI.

Been thinking about Ephesus and Pergamon, not sure if thats subliminal or coincidence.

Going to wait 3-4 months and repeat.

Give this a go!



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Part 4: Tetrahydroharmine receptorome similarities to mescaline; potentiates cactus & safety note
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A little off topic, but I think tetrahydroharmine is a pretty special compound. I've used 250mg of it to potentiate cactus to very strong levels, it makes a 12" medium san pedro cactus tea which may contain around 250mg mescaline feel like an X-large 12" thick san pedro cactus containing around 400mg mescaline. It makes a 12" thick bridgesii cactus feel closer to a tea made with a 12" bridgesii cactus along with an extra 6" piece.

In the data I've seen for THH, it strongly blocks serotonin just like cactus, but also agonizes the adrenal A2A thru A2C receptors (the receptors associated with aesthetics & beauty), just like mescaline has been shown to do receptorome wise, explaining perhaps why they "overlap" so well. THH being able to make mescaline in cactus feel much stronger than it really is. Anyone who has ever taken cactus or high dose THH knows the appreciation for beauty experienced is "over the top".

But you have to stagger the THH from the cactus by taking the tetrahydroharmine around an hour after the cactus is taken, that way any minor maoi's or rima's in the cactus won't interact with the SRI which is THH, which can result in a faster heartbeat for a few hours which has happened to me before...so long as you take it later, it potentiates the cactus quite incredibly...it feels like I've taken 400mg of mescaline containing cactus tea when it's really only 250mg mescaline containing cactus, and they both lasts around 6 hours with super strong activity, so they wind down at around the same time. I have around 7 months experience combining the two, giving myself around 2 weeks apart from journeys.

It works so well, I won't take cactus any other way from now on. I get much more mileage from cactus this way. Visuals and visions are insane, music is so good sounding, you would think you were an alien experiencing sound and music for the very first time, every instrument stands out on it's own, like hearing a track for the very first time.

Always take the san pedro, bridgesii or torch cactus first (they all contain trace maoi like actives)...then take the THH one hour later, in that order, then the journey is pure bliss and no negative interactions. Beautiful combo beyond belief, just like the combo of THH + LSD or THH + mushrooms.

Other topics: Alchemy chemistry fun:

How to extract 2.4g dmt from 170g bark using a 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask (heat and break resistant), post #15:
https://mycotopia.net/topic/111610-hpbcd-dmt-sublingually-active-under-tongue/

Tetrahydroharmine or THH and how to make her, Caapi visionary feminine teaching spirit:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28423951/page/1

Zero nausea HPBCD or aloe vera enhanced penetration Ayahuasca capsules:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28189371/page/1

Cactus tea before waterpark to beat the heat:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28411312/page/4

How to make LSI or Lysergic Acid Isovaleraldemide (Greek Eleusis ancient LSD) at home from morning glory seeds (the priests used non poisonous claviceps paspali which grows on paspalum grass adjacent to Eleusis present day in the famous Rarian plane, same alkaloid profile as the sacred Mesoamerican morning glory):
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27850299/page/2

LSD high dose trip: 20 minute visionary visit from a dead Aztec Shaman:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28451382

On my very first pan cyan mushroom trip, where I went to a house music club tripping with friends, I viewed laser light patterns on the floor of the club, where the women danced, I believe the mushrooms showed me how to form never before seen patterns, as went I went home, over the next several months, I built my own 6 channel audio generator that when these combined frequencies (3 on x channel and 3 on y channel) were sent to a laser x and y galvanometer, were able to produce brand new laser patterns such as collapsing circles and spinning lines 360 degrees which looked beyond belief in the fog as 3-d, I then went on to market these laser scanners to clubs on the strip, and they were a huge success...I owe this creative invention to the mushrooms which sparked new creative energies, way beyond thought, from a higher source where the mushrooms tap into. My love for house music stems back to those days of visiting many clubs as an entertainment laser lighting fixture creator and programmer and making friends with the many DJ's. Over the summer myself and friends were lifeguards at the local water park. But on the weekends we went to parties or house music clubs.

https://www.friskyradio.com/
https://jaytechmusic.podbean.com/
 
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I've gone over why LSA does not react with aldehydes in the manner that people claim, and there is no evidence for formation of LSH from acetaldehyde and LSA, in fact, there is no literature evidence for any amides reacting with aldehydes to form 1-hydroxyalkylamides of any sort. Also, imine/hydroxyalkylamine formation requires conditions that are free of water: aldehydes and amines do not react if they are in water solution (sherry is 78-85% water). Read about how aldehydes and amines react before making any claims. "Imine formation is a reversible process [...]" meaning the 1-hydroxyethyl product reacts with water to form the aldehyde and LSD... oopsy.

Once you start mixing in other psychedelics all scientific reproducibility is thrown out the window, (Like I mentioned in the above thread, LSD and analogues make you more suggestible so I don't really consider trip reports as reliable scientific evidence)

There was also a recent study that showed that ALD-52 and 1P-LSD and other 1-acyl-LSD analogues are rapidly metabolized to LSD and simply function as prodrugs (I.e. they don't have "magical" effects or anything unusual and are equally likely to cause a bad or good trip as LSD). So even if you did form any sort of addition product to the aromatic nitrogen it would just turn back to LSD anyway.

Also, Tim Scully and Nick Sand (the chemists who made Orange Sunshine) said that Orange Sunshine was actually just LSD, the claim that it was ALD-52 was an attempt to get out of a charge and was never proven. (source: The Sunshine Makers (great film, with Tim and Nick in it, as close as you're gonna get to an authentic recollection by the guys who actually made it), [ref1][ref2], etc.

Sorry to "harsh your buzz" but I dislike these kind of playground rumours that are often repeated and never actually proven with any sort of proper science - it's always trip reports and subjective experiences. To me, that's not enough.
 
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Also,
> adrenal A2A thru A2C receptors (the receptors associated with aesthetics & beauty),
These are absolutely not associated with "aesthetics and beauty", they are responsible for the activity of adrenaline, and α2A specifically is an autoreceptor which your body uses to sense the levels of adrenaline and either release more (α2A antagonists like yohimbine act as (fairly rough) stimulants that have a strong effect increasing heart rate/blood pressure, and α2A agonists like clonidine act to decrease blood pressure and cause sedation). Not to be confused with the adenosine A2A receptor. which is responsible for caffeine's stimulant effect (as adenosine builds up it causes sedation and caffeine antagonizes the A2A receptor to allow your body to "ignore" the adenosine and feel more awake. And there is no A2C receptor. (Just A2B).

Tetrahydroharmine does not "block serotonin", nor does mescaline. It is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, and also a reversible inhibitor of MAO-A (which is why it potentiates psychedelics like mescaline). Unfortunately they don't mention this at all, and THH (i.e. from Banisteriopsis caapi or Peganum harmala) poses its own risks as a MAOI and shouldn't be taken lightly, and combining it with psychedelics could result in seriously bad trips if you're not prepared for it.

And what's the need for posting images of scantily clad/topless women, boasts about your inventions, and links to web radio? How do those relate to the topic at all?
 
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Thought i'd assemble some of the various posts on this topic into one place, including contributions from users on the shroomery.org.
A relevant paper - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC49935/

pnas01092-0040.png
indolen1.png

By breeg89 from shoomery forums:
Ethanol adds to the imine to give the aminal, so ALD-52 is not produced from this. That's pretty cool that the aminal is stable enough to isolate.
True, it does not produce ALD-52, but it's not just ALD-52 with an additional hydrogen. See my pic below which shows the difference between ALD-52 and the theoretical derivative prepared from this sherry procedure. The structure of that derivative is based on the paper https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC49935/
639198063-comparison.jpg


"Tryptophan analogues form adducts by cooperative reaction with aldehydes and alcohols or with aldehydes alone: possible role in ethanol toxicity."
- https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC49935/

Oh wait, I just read that section of the paper. That line is describing the reaction with un-substituted indole, which does not react at the indole nitrogen; it reacts at carbon-3 to form a completely different product (dimeric indole product, shown below, same structure from the paper). True, that reaction does not require ethanol, but it is also irrelevant to LSD because LSD is substituted at carbon-3, so LSD instead reacts at the indole nitrogen through a different process.

For indole derivatives with substituents at carbon-3 (like LSD, tryptophan, tryptamine, DMT, psilocin, etc), the paper uses N-acetyltryptophan and 3-indole acetic acid to show that a different reaction occurs at the indole nitrogen, and they state this reaction only occurs when both acetaldehyde and ethanol are present:

Quote from the paper, page 8439:
"Both of these compounds [N-acetyltryptophan and 3-indole acetic acid] yielded reaction products when treated simultaneously with acetaldehyde and ethanol. No products were detected when either of these reagents was used alone."

Structures of product obtained with un-sub'd indole compared to C3-sub'd indole like LSD:
641155662-indole.jpg


By downwardsfromzero from shoomery forums:
Some of you may remember from my commentary at the Nexus my considerable scepticism that an aldehyde adduct on the nitrogen atom of a primary amide would form in any appreciable quantity simply by mixing the two ingredients in solution.

This reference:
1. The condensation of aldehydes with amides (https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/ja01335a085)
Rup Kishore Mehra, Kantilal C. Pandya; 1938; DOI 10.1007/BF03045405; Print ISSN 0370-0089

forces me to rethink my view in that respect.

That isn't particularly relevant to this thread, what with LSD-25 being a tertiary amide and all. Instead I respectfully will echo the point constructively made by breeg89 - the scientific value of anecdotal reports regarding qualitative differences in subjective experience resulting from a particular method of preparation serves only as a stimulus for investigating what is actually going on.

What if it were as simple as the fact that the LSD has gone into solution and is protected from oxidation by the sherry/mint tea components? And tregar, you've already noted the metabolic effect of menthol on the CYPxxx enzymes - what if that is what is making the trip smoother by preventing the formation of the more 'jangly' 13-OH-LSD, for example?

Some contrast to sekio:
There was also a recent study that showed that ALD-52 and 1P-LSD and other 1-acyl-LSD analogues are rapidly metabolized to LSD and simply function as prodrugs (I.e. they don't have "magical" effects or anything unusual and are equally likely to cause a bad or good trip as LSD). So even if you did form any sort of addition product to the aromatic nitrogen it would just turn back to LSD anyway.
Sandoz labs suggested that ALD-52 might actually have advantages over LSD, reducing any side effects but achieving a stronger trip.
Measurements of brain waves while people were taking the two drugs showed that while LSD produced brain waves associated with intense concentration and anxiety, ALD-52 produced brain waves showing a more relaxed mental state.

ALD-52 is listed as having a lower (approximately 1/5) intravenous toxicity (in rabbits), a lower approximately one eighth pyretogenic effect, and double the "antiserotonin" effect as compared with LSD.
...
...in fact, there is no literature evidence for any amides reacting with aldehydes to form 1-hydroxyalkylamides of any sort.

image.png

...
Tregar you have probably rediscovered something that has long been a curiosity, for example on the now defunct blacklight site there was TLC posted of morning glory seed extract treated with methanol, acetaldehyde-methanol or with acetaldehyde-methanol-water, the extract treated with acetaldehyde-methanol without the water showed a clear difference in the alkaloid profile, with a shift to several new non polar spots which couldn't be identified. IIRC Erhlichs was used to develop the plates so these were indole compounds.

The most interesting thing was that when any water was added to the methanol acetaldehyde, the alkaloid mixture was not changed at all which goes against the idea that this can likely happen in highly watery mixtures like sherry wine, but the underlying chemistry is 100% real.
...
Prodrugs can have intrinsic activity themselves, hence the distinction being made between pharmacolocially inactive and active prodrugs.
...
Well said The Axe, let's not forget the possibility that acetaldehyde could be adducting onto the NH group nitrogen of the ergoline indole of LSD "in vivo" in the liver
...

By lysurgeon from dmt nexus
I am not limited by the adduct paradigm. How many different places does (natural lysergic alk X) interact with the world during its existence?
1. grows in the plant
2. accumulates in seed
3. exposed to air in grinding
4. exposed to water unless absolutely anhydrous conditions and solvents (this could even be human saliva)
5. subject to salivary enzymes
6. exposed to hydrochloric acid in the stomach
7. exposed to enzymes in the stomach
8. absorbed into bloodstream, subject to possible accumulation in bodily organs and their enzymes, otherwise possible blood enzymes
9. finally makes it to CNS, possibly more metabolisis before binding to serotonin receptors.
10. activity in CNS
11. metabolised into inactive substances
12. back to blood to kidneys and excreted

I know I'm missing steps here due to poor understanding of human physiology, but my point is that there are many places this alkaloid goes where chemical changes are in fact likely to occur, and the presence of an additional reactive compound could alter these chemical changes, whether its during exposure to water (like forming an aldehyde-amide adduct in cold water extract), or exposure to hydrochloric acid (change takes place in stomach, change is altered by aldehyde) or stomach enzymes (maybe the lsa is protected or the enzymatic function is altered by the aldehyde).

The idea of analysing a cwe with an aldehyde is to be able to possibly rule out spontaneous or ratio-driven reaction ex vivo prior to consumption. and thanks for all your supportive attitudes.
 
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I've been watching Tregar post pseudoscience on various psychedelic oriented forums for half a decade at least, and consistently he lacks rigor in his scientific scrutiny, but is at least partially on the right path with nearly everything he does. In clandestine contexts, it's silly to expect much more imo, but just as another chemist on this forum, I've got to agree with Sekio on these topics, but hey maybe Tregar's book will change my mind on the science at hand. I'd like to see some GC or LC MS validation of extracted/semisynthetic compounds compared to reference compounds, and some double blind exploratory studies on the produced compounds, personally.

I bought this book on Lysergamide synthesis from an absolutely unhinged motherfucker who I won't name here, but there seems to be a correlation between people thinking they can be a microShulgin, and having a sloppy approach to the necessary rigor to contribute to science meaningfully imo. It's still valuable to try things, but there's a firm border between that which is scientifically valid, and valuable anecdote. Both have value, but the more that one blurs into the other, or tries to be the other, in my opinion, value is lost.
 
Some elaboration on the "...but ALD-52 is just an inactive prodrug for LSD" notion:

From my understanding, I think the case is the opposite. ALD-52 is active on its own, meaning it has its own activity in the BBB separate from LSD-25. When we look at 4-AcO-DMT we can see many correlations in this field of understanding..

I understand how one could theorize that based off the experience itself, but after further research and studies, ALD-52 does in fact not hydrolyze (cleave into LSD) unless in the presence of acid or base. So having ALD in a vial of alcohol or water will keep it ALD-52, in fact having a longer shelf life than LSD because of the acetyl group, the acetyl bound can only be cleaved in acidic or basic environments directly told to me by the lab who makes the crystal.

1P-LSD is sheer metabolic process and I believe the propionate group to be too polar to cross the BBB, instead it must be cleaved enzymatically in the body, where as ALD-52 is both active in its own right as well as metabolizing eventually into LSD-25.

But your description is exactly the effect of an ALD-52 experience

Instead, I theorize a new metabolite is created for now named "iso-ALD" which provides an entirely new set of effects PRE-METABOLIC process.

Eventually the ALD cleaves fully into LSD, but by then the "iso-ALD"(active metabolite) in the BBB is fully in process, so instead you have a new LSD isomer active in your brain, separate from LSD itself, and the remaining LSD when cleaved, is now much weaker due to tolerance and is instead normally processed how the body would, while the iso-ALD remains active.
 
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Some elaboration on the "...but ALD-52 is just an inactive prodrug for LSD" notion:


So, I've got to open with the statement that I do not know where I land on this whatsoever, I consider it a very fascinating open question. I have never blind trialed myself between mushrooms, mushroom extracts and psilacetin but I used to blind trial myself between different varieties/species of mushroom and could virtually always distinguish as long as I was over 4 grams in dose, less makes it all pretty much the same imo.

Psilacetin feels like a completely unique drug, that 4-acetoxy esterification genuinely makes that drug hit more like acid for me, a sharper, more visual, unfathomably clearheaded experience. The tactile effects are interesting too compared to normal mushrooms, and the cogntive direction feels more like a hyper refined state of being, like LSD, whereas mushrooms have this characterful primality to the experience that I can only relate to ayahuasca. Pharmahuasca feels more like psilacetin does if that makes sense, both are sharp, clear, hypervisual, just seemingly unique. I prefer pharmahuasca to any ayahuasca brew I've ever made or come upon, but as far as mushrooms/psilacetin go I would say that either mushroom opium, or specifically just Panaeolus cyanescens are my preferred source. Pan cyans just have this super unique character I fuck with, idk why.

The studies about something exhibiting an effect for some period before the functional group is lysed say, from here from a 4-acetoxy into the presumed 4-hydroxy metabolite psilocin, how long is it spending in each state? Is it converted in a matter of seconds? Minutes? I've dug around about this and have found little done as far as finding a solid answer to this right now. I have sampled ALD-52 only a few times, but even my pulse, blood pressure and pupilary dilation all took damn near 75 minutes to begin. I've also had what was mass spec tested as clean LSD wait just over 5 hours once before though, so perhaps lysergamides just play games with the clock. Who fucking knows.

Assuming there is an adequate time of the prodrug exhibiting metabolic influence in its initial state, is that effect it induces also going to be meaningfully divergent from the effect of the target drug? I know that 4-glutaryloxytryptamines have been studied but are still under pharma research iirc, it makes me wonder how many acids we could esterify it with to try to characterize. 4-PrO-DMT is something I was given 4 pressies of, each allegedly containing I believe 15mg? I tried a single one though and it had no effect, though I'm going to give it 3 weeks psychedelic free before trying again for a full tolerance reset, which is frankly a fucking huge ask out of myself.

If it takes a while to cleave the lysine off of lysdexamphetamine, and it led to the research on lys-MDA that exists, why not consider the same as viable for any similar structure, say DMMDA-2? I'd give it a shot, Schiff base condensing the amine and reducing it isn't a HUGE ask for this question to stop haunting me like an ancient curse. I don't really have any specific questions surrounding the whole prodrug's exhibiting unique effects thing, but I'm glad people here are talking about it because it's a very important question to understanding the nuances of the psychedelic experience.

The amount of times I've been on DOM or another psychedelic amphetamine (DOC or 3C-P at least, not DOB) and have thought or had said about the experience "wow I could believe this was just LSD right now" is kind of excessive. If something as structurally different as 3C-P/DOM/DOC is going to strike me as damn near indistinguishable to LSD in characteristics, to what degree would I be able to meaningfully separate 1-[anything]LSD from 1-unsubstituted LSD? I suspect that gun to my head, I would just guess.
 
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