Kratom Kratom Megathread V.2

[jasperkent]

I'm hoping kratom might help me...

It certainly helped me. I was taking 100mg to 200mg oxycodone and/or hydrocodone daily for several years. I quit abruptly, using Red Bali kratom. My withdrawal symptoms were almost nonexistent. I didn't miss a day of work.
Three years later I'm still taking kratom daily (by choice) without any perceptible bad side effects. I take mostly green vein (energy for work), but red vein is best for initially getting off script opioids. I no longer have any desire for the pills that used to dominate my life. I've dabbled with oxycodone once but it was disappointing-- kratom mostly blocked the effects. Good!
You might want to check this out:

American Kratom Association

www.americankratom.org

edit--- For me, kratom also relieves anxiety and depression. YMMV, as it affects everyone a little differently. Always take the lowest dosage that provides relief. I take less now than I did initially.

 

[DesertHarp]

It certainly helped me. I was taking 100mg to 200mg oxycodone and/or hydrocodone daily for several years. I quit abruptly, using Red Bali kratom. My withdrawal symptoms were almost nonexistent. I didn't miss a day of work.
Three years later I'm still taking kratom daily (by choice) without any perceptible bad side effects. I take mostly green vein (energy for work), but red vein is best for initially getting off script opioids. I no longer have any desire for the pills that used to dominate my life. I've dabbled with oxycodone once but it was disappointing-- kratom mostly blocked the effects. Good!
You might want to check this out:

American Kratom Association

www.americankratom.org

edit--- For me, kratom also relieves anxiety and depression. YMMV, as it affects everyone a little differently. Always take the lowest dosage that provides relief. I take less now than I did initially.

I'm astonished by your story. Your opioid intake was 10 X mine. Yet kratom got rid of withdrawal symptoms. In a day of two, I may be in wthdwl. I hope kratom can ease that for me.

 

[DesertHarp]

Well I'm down to my last few Vicodins. I'm stretching them. I hope to get another month's worth on Friday. That's iffy. The refill might not come through till Monday. The prescriber, the pharmacist and the insurance company all have to agree on the refill date. Every month I go through this anxiety.

I'm real disappointed in kratom. So it goes like this: Kratom doesn't really give you any euphoria, but users get just as addicted to it, as if it were real dope. Then withdrawal is awful, if you stop. Why!!! I don't get it. Why shovel dirt into your gut for that? Between kratom and edibles, I've slept a lot. But I'm miserable when I'm awake.

I don't know what to do next.

 

[sekio]

Kratom doesn't really give you any euphoria,

When I was using it, it certainly did. It is, after all, an opioid full agonist.

I have a sneaking suspicion that your kratom capsules are probably not as active as they should be (could be inferior quality material, could be old material, could have been stored improperly). I have read that generally speaking, "commercial" pre-capsulated kratom has a bad reputation and can often be minimally active or inactive at all.
I would recommend finding a well regarded ethnobotany supplier who can supply large-ish amounts of the pre-ground leaf. Capsule it up yourself and store it in the fridge for best shelf life (but it's best to use it all within 30 days or so). (BL does not allow posting/discussing sources sadly)

users get just as addicted to it, as if it were real dope. Then withdrawal is awful, if you stop. Why!!! I don't get it.

This is how every opioid works, sadly. It is, however, dose related: if you use large amounts of kratom or use it more frequently, you will have a harder time of it than if you use small doses, less frequently.
Same as how withdrawal from 20mg of hydrocodone daily may seem awful, but it could be far, far worse if you were (for instance) abusing large amounts of street fentanyl, or taking 100mg morphine or more per day or something.

Also, I hate to tell you, using opioids is a pretty poor anti-depressant in terms of sustainability.
I would actually recommend finding somewhere that could try ketamine therapy with you. There is more robust evidence that NMDA antagonists can be effective antidepressants with effects that last long after the drug has been eliminated. You could even acquire some nitrous oxide from whipped cream chargers and see how that makes you feel (short lasting NMDA antagonist).

 

[jasperkent]

I'm real disappointed in kratom. So it goes like this: Kratom doesn't really give you any euphoria, but users get just as addicted to it, as if it were real dope. Then withdrawal is awful, if you stop.

1. I think you got some inferior product.
2. Kratom affects everyone differently.
3. While I don't exactly get euphoria from kratom, it most definitely elevates my mood.
4. I've gone through WD from several different drugs, including oxycodone, and WD from kratom is nothing compared to the others-- all I got was insomnia, no dopesickness.

 

[The Shadow Self]

Kratom can be a savior. I used it to get off an out of hand Fent situation, and it was a godsend, for sure. And of course getting the dose down with good Kratom is the key.

 

[DesertHarp]

1. I think you got some inferior product.
2. Kratom affects everyone differently.
3. While I don't exactly get euphoria from kratom, it most definitely elevates my mood.
4. I've gone through WD from several different drugs, including oxycodone, and WD from kratom is nothing compared to the others-- all I got was insomnia, no dopesickness.

Thanks very much for that feedback. Yes, someone else above mentioned that capsules are not that reliable. I got them for convenience, as a new user. I will try a different source, if I order again.

I take my legal supply of hydrocodone, to which I am addicted and dependent. I get enough to manage my back pain, which isn't really bad. I like my tablets for the little boost I get mentally, though not as good as it used to be. I can't get a bigger supply because my provider can see that my back issue is not a big deal. I'm lucky to get what I get - 60 tablets/month. My hope was that kratom might help stretch this supply. If I go 36 hours without hydrocodone, I get restless leg syndrome that will not let me lie down for 10 minutes. Once in a while, I use up my prescription ahead of schedule. Next time that happens, I'll try this kratom to see if it stops the RLS. I don't plan on letting that happen, but once in a while, I screw up.

I do think about seeking out more medical help with these depressive episodes, but I've done that to death in the past.

 

[DesertHarp]

I was hoping that kratom would feel more like hydrocodone. It doesn't. That's probably not a good reason to completely give up on the kratom.

I do hear that some users say it lifts their mood. I'll take any lift I can get. Maybe if I take it daily, but I want to avoid getting addicted to kratom.

 

[jasperkent]

I was hoping that kratom would feel more like hydrocodone. It doesn't. That's probably not a good reason to completely give up on the kratom.

I do hear that some users say it lifts their mood. I'll take any lift I can get. Maybe if I take it daily, but I want to avoid getting addicted to kratom.

I have to take about 6 to 7 grams to get a mood lift and it only lasts about 3 hours. I do have quite a tolerance at this point, but even when I first started taking it I required about 4 grams to feel much of anything.

 

[DesertHarp]

I have to take about 6 to 7 grams to get a mood lift and it only lasts about 3 hours. I do have quite a tolerance at this point, but even when I first started taking it I required about 4 grams to feel much of anything.

Thanks for those specifics. The other day I took 12 capsules, so that was 6 grams. I felt woozy, but not really with any mood improvement. Shortly thereafter, I fell asleep. I hesitate to do that now because I don't want to fall back asleep. Maybe, i f I took kratom more often, I might get tolerant of the sleepy effect. A lift in mood is no good to me, if I'm not awake to enjoy it.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Don't write it off until you've had good kratom. The difference between good and bad kratom is literally night and day.

Low quality bulk crap you won't feel anything other than a headache and nausea.

 

[Mjäll]

For me kratom builds slowly, i guess from metabolism of mitragynine -> 7-HO-mitragynine -> mitragynine pseudoindoxyl, increasing in Mu affinity. Your story sounds to me like you slept through the main part of the high.

However, i also get some immediate effects that are more subtle and stimulating. These effects may be more individual than the opioid chill.

What works for me is staggering doses throughout the day, beginning with a moderate amount and then refilling with decreasing doses and increasing time intervals until another sip seems completely unappetizing. That will reliably be the point of maximal return on investment. Toal dose will be in the 7-20g range, typically 12 or so across a similar number of hours. It's a drug that really shines when used to enhance all aspects of a whole day, but preferably not the days after that because of addiction potential and crude non-edible plant ingestion concerns.

Best way of getting the stuff in is as a concentrated sludge, stirred before every sip and chased with loads of water. Caps could be good but i value the sensory feedback of sipping the sludge and getting increasingly turned off by its taste. It's a nice OD prevention mechanism similar to that which can be developed with alcohol (although with far milder nausea and general toxicity) at least when one is past reckless youth. Also, as stated previously, pre-capped stuff is likely to be of lesser quality than bulk powder that will inevitably be inspected.

 

[DesertHarp]

Don't write it off until you've had good kratom. The difference between good and bad kratom is literally night and day.

Low quality bulk crap you won't feel anything other than a headache and nausea.

What I got were capsules. The vendor was praised in reviews that I read. The container has an expiration date that says 6/25. The label says to sore at room temperature. It says the variety is "red maeng da." I realize none of that is proof of quality. The stuff I have may be of good quality . . . or not, for all I know. It wasn't cheap. Again, I realize that's no guarantee.

I guess in life there's just no easy answer.

 

[Mjäll]

What I got were capsules. The vendor was praised in reviews that I read. The container has an expiration date that says 6/25. The label says to sore at room temperature. It says the variety is "red maeng da." I realize none of that is proof of quality. The stuff I have may be of good quality . . . or not, for all I know. It wasn't cheap. Again, I realize that's no guarantee.

I guess in life there's just no easy answer.

Have you tried buying green or white in bulk? Also did you read reviews on the vendor page or elsewhere? Maybe need to look elsewhere for true ratings. This is not the place for sourcing ofc but i hope you get some useful suggestions.

 

[DesertHarp]

For me kratom builds slowly, i guess from metabolism of mitragynine -> 7-HO-mitragynine -> mitragynine pseudoindoxyl, increasing in Mu affinity. Your story sounds to me like you slept through the main part of the high.

However, i also get some immediate effects that are more subtle and stimulating. These effects may be more individual than the opioid chill.

What works for me is staggering doses throughout the day, beginning with a moderate amount and then refilling with decreasing doses and increasing time intervals until another sip seems completely unappetizing. That will reliably be the point of maximal return on investment. Toal dose will be in the 7-20g range, typically 12 or so across a similar number of hours. It's a drug that really shines when used to enhance all aspects of a whole day, but preferably not the days after that because of addiction potential and crude non-edible plant ingestion concerns.

Best way of getting the stuff in is as a concentrated sludge, stirred before every sip and chased with loads of water. Caps could be good but i value the sensory feedback of sipping the sludge and getting increasingly turned off by its taste. It's a nice OD prevention mechanism similar to that which can be developed with alcohol (although with far milder nausea and general toxicity) at least when one is past reckless youth. Also, as stated previously, pre-capped stuff is likely to be of lesser quality than bulk powder that will inevitably be inspected.

Thanks for sharing what works for you. I guess there must be some payoff, or users wouldn't go to this much trouble.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Maybe need to look elsewhere for true ratings.

Right, you can never trust ratings posted in the vendor website. A lot of kratom vendors are very deceptive in that regard, only show their positive or fake reviews, and a lot of reviews are from people who don't know what they're talking about.

All the best vendors I know do not post reviews on their own website. Seems backwards, but it's what I've noticed.

 

[DesertHarp]

Right, you can never trust ratings posted in the vendor website. A lot of kratom vendors are very deceptive in that regard, only show their positive or fake reviews, and a lot of reviews are from people who don't know what they're talking about.

All the best vendors I know do not post reviews on their own website. Seems backwards, but it's what I've noticed.

I don't put much stock in reviews offered by the vendor. Someone I know worked at a restaurant where employees were given tabs on a free drink everytime they posted a nice review on their dining experience at the place. I look for articles that compare and contrast competitors in a market. I do realize that the Internet is drenched with seemingly objective feedback that is bogus. That's why I value and feel grateful for your tip.

 

[DesertHarp]

Have you tried buying green or white in bulk? Also did you read reviews on the vendor page or elsewhere? Maybe need to look elsewhere for true ratings. This is not the place for sourcing ofc but i hope you get some useful suggestions.

No, I've not bought anything but the capsules. I look for reviews from 3rd parties with some claim to credibility. I guess there's restriction on what members of this site can share. But with enough looking around, I think I can figure out who are the leaders in the pack. In this capitalist system, success tends to go to those who offer a product that satisfies. (Not always, though.) So I look at the quality of the website. The variety of products offered. If the vendor seems to be moving a large volume of product, I figure that means something. (It might not mean something good.) Mainly, I don't want to get something dangerous, like contaminated by other drugs or by pathogenic bacteria. So I might avoid vendors that don't seem well-known.

 

[Bytor_and_the_snowdog]

how do you think kratom would help to get off a 6 month suboxone use.
use 2-3mg a day - but want off bad. but due to my high profile job, i cant just stop. i travel a lot snd i also do public speaking for my job.
any suggestions? kratom seems interesting from what im reading - but would it work for subs at the dossge and time i have been on

 

[SuperPsych]

how do you think kratom would help to get off a 6 month suboxone use.
use 2-3mg a day - but want off bad. but due to my high profile job, i cant just stop. i travel a lot snd i also do public speaking for my job.
any suggestions? kratom seems interesting from what im reading - but would it work for subs at the dossge and time i have been on

That's what I'm currently doing. I was able to switch from suboxone to kratom with little discomfort. The first few days we're roughish but I was still able to go to work and everything. I had been on Suboxone for almost 2 years, having gone up to 16mg/day. I tapered down to 1-2mg before switching to kratom.

Is your ultimate goal to get off of suboxone and opioids in general? I had heard that suboxone was an easy taper but once I got to 1mg, lowering my dose any amount was pretty unpleasant. Unfortunately to help cover the WD from Suboxone and break through enough to help make the switch, I was basically just shoveling as much Kratom as I needed to feel comfortable. I imagine I was at 15g/ day or more to help get past suboxone.

Some people find Kratom easy to taper, some don't. I am one who can't taper it successfully. My dose just goes up and up. My goal was to switch to kratom for a while then hop back on suboxone at .5mg or less then taper, but that didn't work for me. So now my plan is to use kratom about 2 months out from my last Suboxone dose, as people say the initial WD from bupe is about 30 days. Once I feel safe that the 2 years of suboxone is out of my system, I will attempt to cold turkey Kratom. Since I struggle with tapers my options are a 30 day withdrawal from Buperenorphine cold-turkey or a 4-5 day withdrawal from Kratom.

So I am currently stocking up on comfort meds until I can find a time where I can afford to take 4 days off of work to just lay in bed and push through. The comfort meds I plan on getting are : Clonidine, Gabapentin or preferably Pregablin, Carisoprodol, Dissociatives (3-ho-pcp, FXE, Ketamine most likely), and maybe a stimulant of some sort. Probably loperaminde as well in case the diarrhea gets bad, and maybe 1 or 2 doses of a benzo if there are nights that I absolutely cant sleep and on a night I dont plan to use the Carisoprodol.

Personally, I think if you're able to then tapering off of Suboxone is your best bet. Kratom doesn't last long, so to avoid daytime WD you will have to take Kratom at your high profile job. Regardless of if it's legal, swallowing spoonfuls of powder or taking a handful of capsules might not be the look you're going for. If you're like me and unable to taper Suboxone successfully then I say Kratom is worth a try.

Also, I know a lot of people like to convince themselves that it's not, but Kratom is rather addictive. I actually got onto Suboxone initially due to Kratom use that I couldn't control. Ultimately you're trading one physical dependence for another, it's just a matter of finding one that has fewer side effects and that you can handle better.

Best of luck in whatever you decide