What is the best sleeping pill I can get from my doctor

[phall]

Yes it was literally a dose id carry on working with normally ..add the mirtazapine for a couple of days prior . Turned it into a different beast. Luckily it was a short acting opioid or id of needed restraining for the day.
I think repeatedly may mean forever

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I've read that taking LSD while having a tricyclic antidepressant in your system can be dangerous/fatal.
I could be wrong though & just didn't read it correctly.

Does anyone know if the same applies to tetracyclic antidepressants like mirtazipine?
Like would somebody be in danger if they took 7.5mg of Mirtazipine either the night before or on the come down from an acid trip? Anybody know?

Sorry, don't mean to high jack the thread either. But it seems silly to make a whole new post just for a quick question when i'm sure some one on here is smart enough to answer it.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Opipramol which I bought in Turkey, not prescribed was a very clean sleep aid. ime


So is Mulungu bark, which is als not precribed

 

[unodelacosa]

I've read that taking LSD while having a tricyclic antidepressant in your system can be dangerous/fatal.
I could be wrong though & just didn't read it correctly.

Technically yes it can be fatal. It depends on the dose, the tricyclic or tetracyclic AD in question, and the individual's physiological factors (size, age, gender, personal enzyme profile, diet, experience, etc.). The main thing is that the combination could lead to a synergistic effect on adrenaline and serotonin caused by the AD drug being a monoamine reuptake inhibitor of those two neurotransmitters while LSD is a releasing agent for them, and other neurotransmitters, too, of course. But the point is: the combo could cause serotonin syndrome, which could cause a seizure/convulsions and that could be fatal… While that doesn't normally happen w/serotonin syndrome, it's still very unpleasant and generally sucks shit. I'm not a medical professional, so don't take any of this as advice; ask your doctor before any experiments, but I think that's the main concern you might be asking about here.

Does anyone know if the same applies to tetracyclic antidepressants like mirtazipine?

Yes, they are similar and share many, though not all, of the same traits, qualities, contraindications, etc. Use caution and talk to a professional if you're uncertain.

Like would somebody be in danger if they took 7.5mg of Mirtazipine either the night before or on the come down from an acid trip? Anybody know?

Again: I'm not a medical professional and this is just general facts and some guesswork. My hunch is: no, you're not letting the peaks of each drug overlap each other and I think mostly the Mirtazipine is going to interfere with the trip / make it weaker than it would be otherwise. I would skip the dose the night before. After the trip, I would take the Mirtazipine per usual and sleep the sleep of the Gods, and wake up feeling refreshed and revitalized. But that's just a hunch.

Sorry, don't mean to high jack the thread either. But it seems silly to make a whole new post just for a quick question when i'm sure some one on here is smart enough to answer it.

Yeah but still, I think the idea the site admins have is to organize all the random data bits like this into taxonomically correct filing via threads. But eh, that's what search engines are good for, right? I mean, Yahoo, at one point, was attempting to index the entire Internet sometime circa, idk, 1997-ish…Pretty soon it became impossible and in came Google with an amazing, new search algorithm that beat the brakes off all the other search engines at the time. Yahoo abandoned the indexing and tried catching up, but it was too late. The point here is: coo-coo cachoo.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Technically yes it can be fatal. It depends on the dose, the tricyclic or tetracyclic AD in question, and the individual's physiological factors (size, age, gender, personal enzyme profile, diet, experience, etc.). The main thing is that the combination could lead to a synergistic effect on adrenaline and serotonin caused by the AD drug being a monoamine reuptake inhibitor of those two neurotransmitters while LSD is a releasing agent for them, and other neurotransmitters, too, of course. But the point is: the combo could cause serotonin syndrome, which could cause a seizure/convulsions and that could be fatal… While that doesn't normally happen w/serotonin syndrome, it's still very unpleasant and generally sucks shit. I'm not a medical professional, so don't take any of this as advice; ask your doctor before any experiments, but I think that's the main concern you might be asking about here.


Yes, they are similar and share many, though not all, of the same traits, qualities, contraindications, etc. Use caution and talk to a professional if you're uncertain.


Again: I'm not a medical professional and this is just general facts and some guesswork. My hunch is: no, you're not letting the peaks of each drug overlap each other and I think mostly the Mirtazipine is going to interfere with the trip / make it weaker than it would be otherwise. I would skip the dose the night before. After the trip, I would take the Mirtazipine per usual and sleep the sleep of the Gods, and wake up feeling refreshed and revitalized. But that's just a hunch.


Yeah but still, I think the idea the site admins have is to organize all the random data bits like this into taxonomically correct filing via threads. But eh, that's what search engines are good for, right? I mean, Yahoo, at one point, was attempting to index the entire Internet sometime circa, idk, 1997-ish…Pretty soon it became impossible and in came Google with an amazing, new search algorithm that beat the brakes off all the other search engines at the time. Yahoo abandoned the indexing and tried catching up, but it was too late. The point here is: coo-coo cachoo.

Thanks for this info!!
Makes sense!!

I've actually had mild serotonin syndrome before in the past. Tremors, projectile puking, burning sensations all over my skin. Horrible time. It's actually scared me away from antidepressants. Since they seem to caust it the most for me.

I don't really plan on mixing mirtazpine & lsd but I was definitely curious if it's safe. Some times it's impossible to sleep after a good lsd trip. But like you said, I think it'd be okay after a come down, especially a low dose. Since I don't think mirtazipine starts to really mess with serotonin until much higher doses anyway (tho I could be wrong). I guess I was curious why tetracyclic & tricyclic AD's especially are bad. Wouldn't it be bad to mix any AD with lsd in that case then?

I'd never tell a doctor about it though lol Most doctors aren't very open minded & would probably yank my meds from me if I told them I was gonna do lsd. lol

And yeah, Google use to be alright for searching for things. I've noticed lately that almost all bluelight links have vanished from google. Any time I look up some kind of drug or interactions, I get all these bullshit results at the top that have nothing to do with what I asked. I noticed the search results changing a lot the past few years. I use to be able to find all kinds of info about opioids for depression & how opioids were used in the past for psychiatry & now it's basically impossible to find any of that. I think it sucks that all the BL results don't show up anymore either, cause people trying to find specific questions & shit can't find what they're looking for now.

So thanks again for the response!

 

[unodelacosa]

curious why tetracyclic & tricyclic AD's especially are bad.

I wouldn't say especially, I just consider them anathema to each other, ADs and psychedelics. Trying to brute force through only leads to serotonin syndrome, so avoid that.

Wouldn't it be bad to mix any AD with lsd in that case then?

It more or less is, but again, the dose makes a difference as to the danger.

I'd never tell a doctor about it though lol Most doctors aren't very open minded & would probably yank my meds from me if I told them I was gonna do lsd. lol

Well, many times doctors are quite liberal, but they're keeping in mind malpractice suits and malpractice insurance policies. If you mention something considered "risky behavior" they have a moral obligation to make appropriate adjustments for your safety and health and to avoid lawsuit liability. I can't say I blame them.

At the same time, it is unwise to hold info back from your doctor.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I wouldn't say especially, I just consider them anathema to each other, ADs and psychedelics. Trying to brute force through only leads to serotonin syndrome, so avoid that.


It more or less is, but again, the dose makes a difference as to the danger.


Well, many times doctors are quite liberal, but they're keeping in mind malpractice suits and malpractice insurance policies. If you mention something considered "risky behavior" they have a moral obligation to make appropriate adjustments for your safety and health and to avoid lawsuit liability. I can't say I blame them.

At the same time, it is unwise to hold info back from your doctor.

I wouldn't say doctors are liberal where I'm at at least. Some can be pretty open minded & understanding though.

Admitting to using LSD would likely equate to doctors taking away meds I actually need like benzos, in fear of "drug abuse".
Even though I've never really cared for benzos other than for treating my anxiety, so it would do nothing but appease their fears of "malpractice" or put them on an authoritarian power trip over my mental health.

I already can't get any genuine help with ADHD symptoms due to having drug use on my record. Nor will I ever probably be given proper pain relief when I'm in pain.

Most doctors are more hellbent on getting you on whatever new drugs are out so they can get nice kick backs for it & go on vacation while I suffer with insane side effects from whatever drug they've pushed onto to me.

So while I understand your sentiment, It's not always the best thing to tell doctors all of your business.

 

[unodelacosa]

So while I understand your sentiment,

Listen, I don't have a particularly strong sentiment that can be reduced here. I see both sides of this rather complex issue and have talked to individuals on both sides of this – doctors and patients.

It's not always the best thing to tell doctors all of your business.

I agree, and please note that I didn't use the words "always" and "all." That would be too extreme. Of course it isn't ALWAYS the best thing to tell doctors ALL of your business. That goes without saying.

There is a balance to strike. If you manage to find that balance, in theory you should be able to speak with your physician about this topic without fear of losing your prescription meds. This shouldn't dictate your actions anyway.

Putting aside the cynicism for a moment, consider this from the doctor's angle, granting them the benefit of the doubt that they're of decent moral character. The doctor must navigate this conversation carefully, considering ethical, legal, and medical implications.

Some considerations:

• A doctor's primary concern should be the patient's health and well-being. If a patient expresses curiosity about mind-altering drugs, the doctor should engage in a non-judgmental and open conversation to understand the patient's motivations and concerns.
• A doctor can provide accurate info about potential risks, benefits, and consequences of using mind-altering drugs along with harm reduction strategies if the patient insists on pursuing such experiences despite the legal risk.
• To the point of legal implications – discussing illegal activities can put the doctor in a difficult position, as they are obligated to abide by the law. While it's important to address patient's concerns, the doctor cannot encourage or endorse illegal activities without risking some liability.
• The doctor should maintain patient-doctor confidentiality, except in cases where there's an imminent threat to the patient's safety or the safety of others. This can be interpreted in different ways, too, which can be tricky.
• A doctor's convos wi/a patient viz. potential risks or illegal behaviors could impact their malpractice insurance if those discussions are perceived as reckless or irresponsible. Insurance companies assess risk factors when determining premiums, and certain discussions might increase the perceived risk associated w/the doctor's practice.

The ethical guidelines here almost contradict themselves. The doctor is obligated to be truthful and accurate, including mentioning potential benefits of this behavior, yet at the same time they can't encourage the behavior. I imagine if a doctor feels uncomfortable or unsure about discussing certain topics, they may refer their patient to a specialist or counselor for more focused guidance, or i.e. pass that hot potato to the next professional in their referral network…

In theory, a doctor's priority should be the patient's well-being and safety, while also upholding ethical and legal standards. In reality, while this mindset does exist, everyone's real priority at its core is to look out for #1 (and don't step in #2). But that's how it's supposed to be – we are all wired for survival let's not forget, and the whole reason any of us are here today is because we all had competitive ancestors who successfully procreated in an earlier, harsher era of the world. That doesn't excuse being a selfish dick to people, of course, but you can't fault someone for being cautious here, I don't think. But that's just my opinion, my unsolicited $0.02.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

That is a lot for a person who does not have a tolerance for Seroquel.
The starting dose is 25mg.
Eventually one builds a tolerance to it and may need to adjust their dosage.
One time i inadvertently took 300mg and it was my first time.
I slept had awful nightmares and the following day was hell on earth.
Be careful guys.

Someone has mentioned seroquel is a serious anti psychotic and not just a sleep medication I am sure.

Perfect sleeping pill is a tough thing to define.

If you are looking for the 50 caliber of sleeping pills I hear they are prescribing seconal again in extreme cases but you are about as likely as a desoxyn script to methamphetamine.

Short term benzos. Long term, I don't have good answer I am on benzos.

 

[WellTram]

Tizanidine,great for falling asleep
Any antipsychotic in low dose, or trittico or mirtazapine-very strong sedative effects
Alprazolam - Xanax etc high dose

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

I'm trying to get off antipsychotics so I can get high again on opiates. Trazodone is not strong enough. If you take APs you know that they knock you the fuck out so I want something strong. Benadryl and melatonin don't work

Anti-psychotics stop you getting high on opioids? Is that something specific to *you*? That's never happened to me. Thorazine actually INcreases how opioids affect me (and can be used by doctors to lower the required dosage of an opioid or make an opioids effects last longer)

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Someone has mentioned seroquel is a serious anti psychotic and not just a sleep medication I am sure.

Perfect sleeping pill is a tough thing to define.

If you are looking for the 50 caliber of sleeping pills I hear they are prescribing seconal again in extreme cases but you are about as likely as a desoxyn script to methamphetamine.

Short term benzos. Long term, I don't have good answer I am on benzos.

Doesn't seconal have WAYYY overly-long half-life to use it for sleep? I think the range is something like 16-38 hours (iirc, don't quote me on that as exact). And that's the HALF-LIFE not duration of action. So even if you take the lower end of the half-life, 16 hours after taking it, you'd still have at least half the dose in your system.
Not that I wouldn't kill for a barbiturate script. Was devastated when my Phenobarbital one got take away. Especially since it was the only one of SIX seizure medications that was actually 100% effective (I had ZERO seizures while on it).

 

[unodelacosa]

You know what works well for sleeping? Exercising 30 min to an hour everyday. I like to do M-W-F with resistance training / light free-weights, and then cardio on Sun-Tue-Thu. Saturdays I leave open for active lifestyle stuff like rock climbing, hiking/camping, festivals/raves, urban exploring, geocaching, &c. To fall asleep I lie down and start reading, rarely making it past 10 or so pages. Wear yourself out so you'll sleep, like with a puppy, lol.

 

[Jen X]

I get bouts of insomnia and i've tried serquel, zopiclone mirtazipine clonidine and it just don't work for me. Sometimes zopiclone will work but only 4hrs, the rest just make me groggy. Exercise helps quite a bit. Stay away from caffeine.

 

[Las Veghost grower]

You know what works well for sleeping? Exercising 30 min to an hour everyday. I like to do M-W-F with resistance training / light free-weights, and then cardio on Sun-Tue-Thu. Saturdays I leave open for active lifestyle stuff like rock climbing, hiking/camping, festivals/raves, urban exploring, geocaching, &c. To fall asleep I lie down and start reading, rarely making it past 10 or so pages. Wear yourself out so you'll sleep, like with a puppy, lol.

This is refreshing to see, so many people want a pill to solve any problem, even sleep, when 99% of the time of activity will do it….I don’t like this brave new world were living in

 

[Shady's Fox]

This is refreshing to see, so many people want a pill to solve any problem, even sleep, when 99% of the time of activity will do it….I don’t like this brave new world were living in

Sound therapy.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Avoiding stimulants and exercise work the best. Do you know that in 2001 I didn't sleep for 12 days. This was in The Netherlands so no pills would EVER be offered.

On day 13 I was taking my GF to hospital for some minor procedure and I had a grand mal seizure IN the hospital. Apparently it went on for a long time and first they got worried and injected diazemuls. It STILL didn't stop so the consultant made a 'heroic' decision to inject me with clomethiazole (Heminevrin) which she had never used before. It took 400mg to stop me.

I woke up TOTALLY lost, naked in a bed I didn't recognise with all of the lights switched off. It was almost pitch black, just pin-lights (for the nurses to see I later discovered) and it was 10PM. I had lost 12 hours.

So while insomnia can be REALLY bad for mental health, it has to get very bad indeed to cause harm. I had 'pizza tongue', you know, when you bit into hot cheese, but it was where I had bitten my own tongue.

After that my career using computers was over. I have to stop for 30 minutes every couple of hours or I get NESD (non-epileptic seizure disorder) and it feels like the screen is sucking me in....

But I digress - no caffeine, go for a long walk in the evening. Oh, and stopping smoking helped as well.

 

[thurston]

Sound therapy.

I've been curious about those types of sounds for sleep but I was worried about what subjecting my ears to 7 hrs of low frequency audio every night would do to my hearing.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

You know what works well for sleeping? Exercising 30 min to an hour everyday. I like to do M-W-F with resistance training / light free-weights, and then cardio on Sun-Tue-Thu. Saturdays I leave open for active lifestyle stuff like rock climbing, hiking/camping, festivals/raves, urban exploring, geocaching, &c. To fall asleep I lie down and start reading, rarely making it past 10 or so pages. Wear yourself out so you'll sleep, like with a puppy, lol.

If have no condition; sure...... I am...... well maybe was depending on whose standards an athlete. I had school at 7 am and hockey from mindight to 1:30 AM and still couldn't sleep. Insomnia is a real condition and that is not questionable.....I kind of was about to blowback on your first post, instead it got a heart after some critical thinking.

For some of us the brain does not turn off at the end of the night despite physical fatigue. If you are past 1,000 sheep every night maybe check it.

@AlsoTapered First I owe you an apology, I am sorry; sincerely . 2nd 100% agreed. Avoid stims and I can relate to everything you were saying. Not good news for folk like us. I only drink caffeine in the early AM.

@ChemicallyEnhanced - Yes the halflife is fairly long, however barbs trump benzos (opinion?) so I guess I figured best would be most euphoric and hardest hitting. That is why I said best sleeping pill is a tough call...

For strictly medical use and reasonable chances I would say Restoril, Chemical name (temazepam) worked best for solely sleep purposes. Or maybe phenazepam if you were already laying in bed when you dosed it, but phenaz is a tricky mofo. (again long ass halflife).

 

[AlsoTapered]

@AlsoTapered First I owe you an apology, I am sorry; sincerely . 2nd 100% agreed. Avoid stims and I can relate to everything you were saying. Not good news for folk like us. I only drink caffeine in the early AM.

I really don't think you have anything to apologise for.

I'm sorry for going on that long ramble about my seizures due to 288 hours without sleep. I MISSED the most important bit - I STILL have seizures. Whatever that tremendous time without sleep did to me but since 2001 I've had numerous seizures and not just grand mal and petit mal. Just last week I went into a bathroom that had bare strip-lights (one of my triggers) and woke up 12 hours later in hospital.