⫸Trans and LGBTQIA+ Discussion⫷

[Asclepius]

Really? Honestly if that were the case then shouldn't we make all medical interventions people need to be 25+ for? If a standard needs to be enforced for some reason then it needs consistency. I'm actually really conservative in my own community and I see people wanting to transition and I think should take time to think about it. But 18 is definitely old enough, imo. I did wait 2 years of living as male without hormones to be sure it's what I wanted though as it is a bit life choice.

Tbh it should be, ideally but you know the med industry, would be out of pocket.

Look, if your comfortable with your decision, who am I to say otherwise. It's not my place, as far as I'm concerned but blanket policy made by industry-funded politicians, when it impacts legislation that functions to serve general interest & welfare, especially in healthcare rights, education rights, etc...is a different thing. It needs to be nuanced, for individuals however, politicians are capitalising on culture- war BS, for their own, benefit imho.

 

[Jabberwocky]

@Eligiu should 14 year old pubescent boys be allowed to recieve testosterone injections and penis enlargement surgery simply because it would make them feel more masculine as they feel they should be?

Andrew Tate said they should have a huge dick. Should we affirm that?

 

[Asclepius]

Well, you have a label, its just that your label is the default and you never had reason to question it. Mine wasn't right, so I did.

To clarify, my life got harder in terms of discrimination and people not respecting how I want to live my life when it doesn't affect them. My mental health re this issue has improved so much that it's the best decision I ever made and brings me a huge amount of joy, both seeing how I look now and finally feeling happy, and when other people refer to me as a man, I still get a rush of feeling this joy that was absent from my life as a female presenting person.

I don't experience dysphoria anymore. If I could pee standing up that would be the last thing ever needed for me and I can get around needing surgery for that by using an STP device, so that's sorted for me.

Still, the reason I posted here was to inform people having a genital preference and a sexuak preference isn't inherently transphobic, rather the ways people describe their preferences when it excludes a group for being part of that group, it can be and often is. But that even if they is the case no one has any obligations to have sex with a person they do not want to or find attractive.

How do you know, I never had a reason to question the many labels afforded me, lol?
Anyway, tbh peoples judgement is not my business, I'm living meh life & that's all, that matters.

Well fuck people, just live your life, the right people will like you for who you are.

Yeah, you get to consent to who you want to be with. That's a human right. If anyone proposes otherwise, you can kill them ( that's an Asclepius right, it's not legal but you know; I said so and that)

 

[Eligiu]

@Eligiu should 14 year old pubescent boys be allowed to recieve testosterone injections and penis enlargement surgery simply because it would make them feel more masculine as they feel they should be?

Andrew Tate said they should have a huge dick. Should we affirm that?

14 year old trans children aren't being given that. So it's a moot point. Not anywhere I live, anyway. I've heard of 16 being the minimum for hormones, and only in the situation I described earlier when they have a long demonstrated and verifiable history. And certain no bottom surgery prior to age 18. No one can really afford it anyway, so it's again sort of a moot point. I'd love bottom surgery but at a price point of $100k it's not happening for me and 99% of other trans people and we learn to live with that.

Gender dysphoria is a medical condition. On brain scans, trans people are shown to have brains which more closely match the gender we identify as rather than our sex at birth. We know conversion therapy doesn't work. A lifetime of existing in a system designed to make sure I was cis still didn't work, and I remained trans.

So yes, if a trans person wants to do things to their body that will help them feel comfortable, and which medical professionals agree is right for them as an adult in terms of surgery, we should respect that. I don't see how it impacts anybody else. It's weird to be this interested in other peoples genitals. If Andrew Tate wants a huge dick, then he can have at it. It isn't my body, it's his.

I'm glad most people don't experience how shitty dysphoria feels like. But I wish they could understand how great it feels to be able to fix it.

 

[Asclepius]

@Eligiu should 14 year old pubescent boys be allowed to recieve testosterone injections and penis enlargement surgery simply because it would make them feel more masculine as they feel they should be?

Andrew Tate said they should have a huge dick. Should we affirm that?

Andrew Tate should release his own meditation App. ...


...for himself.

 

[Jabberwocky]

14 year old trans children aren't being given that. So it's a moot point. Not anywhere I live, anyway.

Right, I mean this whole trans political bullshit is centered in the US, and as my argument above it's actually not happening which was one of my above points.

But technically, it is happening to a few people and is somewhat of a legitimate stat/argument.

If conservatives are worried, not much reason since we're discussing 1 in 150 million.

But, it's still a legit question and point.

 

[Eligiu]

How do you know, I never had a reason to question the many labels afforded me, lol?
Anyway, tbh peoples judgement is not my business, I'm living meh life & that's all, that matters.

Well fuck people, just live your life, the right people will like you for who you are.

Yeah, you get to consent to who you want to be with. That's a human right. If anyone proposes otherwise, you can kill them ( that's an Asclepius right, it's not legal but you know; I said so and that)

My interpretation of you saying before that you didn't have labels (aside from the government ones) was that you never had reason to question them. That may have been a misinterpretation but ime people who think that people who use labels get caught up in labels it's mostly said because their label is the default and they haven't had cause to think about it much. I'm open to being wrong.

I didn't question things much, once I realised I could transition from female to male it was sort if a no brainer for me and my life has never been better from the perspective of this issue.

It's other people's behaviour towards me that brings me down in this area, and why I generally do not engage in these discussions because I tire of having my identity used as a political talk point. I just came here to tell people not all trans guys are straight, and that the question being asked wasn't transphobic lol.

 

[Asclepius]

14 year old trans children aren't being given that. So it's a moot point. Not anywhere I live, anyway. I've heard of 16 being the minimum for hormones, and only in the situation I described earlier when they have a long demonstrated and verifiable history. And certain no bottom surgery prior to age 18. No one can really afford it anyway, so it's again sort of a moot point. I'd love bottom surgery but at a price point of $100k it's not happening for me and 99% of other trans people and we learn to live with that.

Gender dysphoria is a medical condition. On brain scans, trans people are shown to have brains which more closely match the gender we identify as rather than our sex at birth. We know conversion therapy doesn't work. A lifetime of existing in a system designed to make sure I was cis still didn't work, and I remained trans.

So yes, if a trans person wants to do things to their body that will help them feel comfortable, and which medical professionals agree is right for them as an adult in terms of surgery, we should respect that. I don't see how it impacts anybody else. It's weird to be this interested in other peoples genitals. If Andrew Tate wants a huge dick, then he can have at it. It isn't my body, it's his.

I'm glad most people don't experience how shitty dysphoria feels like. But I wish they could understand how great it feels to be able to fix it.

I had body dysmorphia as a kid, so can relate somewhat.

I just don't trust the medical industry, in general.
I've worked in the medical industry and have seen, firsthand how corrupt it is.
In saying that, of course there are descent, ethically sound, persons & elements but in general, I would not put blind-faith in the system.

 

[Eligiu]

Right, I mean this whole trans political bullshit is centered in the US, and as my argument above it's actually not happening which was one of my above points.

But technically, it is happening to a few people and is somewhat of a legitimate stat/argument.

I have never seen an example of a trans child have genital surgery under 16 (and even then I can't think of any), for the most part it's under 18. I haven't heard of anyone under 18 personally.

What actually happens on a daily basis is intersex children having forced genital mutilation to make them have the appearance of being not intersex, and that happens to babies. I can't imagine being intersex, having unnecessary surgery performed on you as a child, forced to take hormones you didn't consent to and realising later in life your parents flipped a coin and Got it wrong. Honestly I feel bad for those people.

 

[Eligiu]

I had body dysmorphia as a kid, so can relate somewhat.

I just don't trust the medical industry, in general.
I've worked in the medical industry and have seen, firsthand how corrupt it is.
In saying that, of course there are descent, ethically sound, persons & elements but in general, I would not put blind-faith in the system.

I do think some kids experiencing dysmorphia are misidentified as experiencing dysphoria. I also think any young person who goes on blockers and socially transitions (like a client's sister did last year, though minus blockers) should be affirmed, but also assured that if they change their mine and desist (as she did) that they will be accepted no matter their decision. That's what it boils down for for me. If they identify as trans, counselling is always necessary, ans they should be told that they can always change their mind.

 

[Asclepius]

My interpretation of you saying before that you didn't have labels (aside from the government ones) was that you never had reason to question them. That may have been a misinterpretation but ime people who think that people who use labels get caught up in labels it's mostly said because their label is the default and they haven't had cause to think about it much. I'm open to being wrong.

I didn't question things much, once I realised I could transition from female to male it was sort if a no brainer for me and my life has never been better from the perspective of this issue.

It's other people's behaviour towards me that brings me down in this area, and why I generally do not engage in these discussions because I tire of having my identity used as a political talk point. I just came here to tell people not all trans guys are straight, and that the question being asked wasn't transphobic lol.

Ime, people who haven't cause much to think of the social, labels/roles ascribed to them, have just not thought 'outside the box'.

I think most 'normal' straight, folks have felt forced to live up to expectations 'assigned' to them but many, just cynically, laugh at it, when they've realised that they are ideals of reality; rather than something you can realistically, live up to, 24/7.
IME, one should only strive to be their best, self; that's all that matters.

 

[Asclepius]

I have never seen an example of a trans child have genital surgery under 16 (and even then I can't think of any), for the most part it's under 18. I haven't heard of anyone under 18 personally.

What actually happens on a daily basis is intersex children having forced genital mutilation to make them have the appearance of being not intersex, and that happens to babies. I can't imagine being intersex, having unnecessary surgery performed on you as a child, forced to take hormones you didn't consent to and realising later in life your parents flipped a coin and Got it wrong. Honestly I feel bad for those people.

On a daily basis?
Any form of forced, genital mutilation is reprehensible. It happens to a lot of MEastern & African, girls, also, around the globe. To keep them from enjoying sex, before marriage.
Circumcisions are pretty, horrific also, imo.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I have never seen an example of a trans child have genital surgery under 16 (and even then I can't think of any), for the most part it's under 18. I haven't heard of anyone under 18 personally.

It does happen, I've actually looked at the numbers. There are approximately 10 gender affirming surgery's per year in the US for persons under 18 (which are not medically necessary for sustaining life). Don't bring up suicide here, irrelevant.

"Hormones you don't consent to?"

I never consented to be born into this universe let alone to be a masculine man.

I never consented to be the descendant of a long glorious line of suicidal alcoholic men.

I never consented to a lot of things.

But that doesn't necessarily give me any right to demand anything of any other person, or society.

Life is not fair.

I'm not making any sort of argument here, other than anyone who thinks anything in this life/universe is some sort of right, or fairness.

Life sucks man. Nobody is deserved of anything, at all. Cold truth.

 

[Asclepius]

Indeed social bs is the shit-stream, you need to swim against, a lot of the time.


"I never consented to be the descendant of a long glorious line of suicidal alcoholic men."

Well, you don't know what they struggled with (maybe they were ahead of their time & misunderstood; maybe they were forced into decisions/social roles they had no freedom to consent to). Any way, find out about them, realise you AREN'T them but maybe, in understanding their plight, it may give you some context, into freeing yourself from the harsh, judgement they were lumbered with?

In lieu of that, maybe you can stop measuring yourself by the ghosts of the past and just live your life, with accountability & respect, for yourself. Give the ghosts & yourself some compassion, man.

 

[Jabberwocky]

In lieu of that, maybe you can stop measuring yourself by the ghosts of the past and just live your life, with accountability & respect, for yourself. Give the ghosts & yourself some compassion, man.

You are right, and I don't. Just some macabre point I was trying to make.

My grandfather was a tortured POW in the Korean war. I can say with utter surety that worst of shit absolutely rolls downhill.

 

[Eligiu]

On a daily basis?
Any form of forced, genital mutilation is reprehensible. It happens to a lot of MEastern & African, girls, also, around the globe. To keep them from enjoying sex, before marriage.
Circumcisions are pretty, horrific also, imo.

Any day an intersex person is born, yes. Or very soon after. And I'm aware of the issue of FGM and MGM. Both reprehensible.

It does happen, I've actually looked at the numbers. There are approximately 10 gender affirming surgery's per year in the US for persons under 18 (which are not medically necessary for sustaining life). Don't bring up suicide here, irrelevant.

"Hormones you don't consent to?"

I never consented to be born into this universe let alone to be a masculine man.

I never consented to be the descendant of a long glorious line of suicidal alcoholic men.

I never consented to a lot of things.

But that doesn't necessarily give me any right to demand anything of any other person, or society.

Life is not fair.

I'm not making any sort of argument here, other than anyone who thinks anything in this life/universe is some sort of right, or fairness.

Life sucks man. Nobody is deserved of anything, at all. Cold truth.

I'm unsure as to why you are referring to me or bringing up life being unfair or hormones I didn't consent to. I'm not intersex. I simply brought up how awful it would be for them eventually finding out that their parents could have left their body alone and let them choose on their own, in the situation they had ambitious genitalia etc instead of surgically 'correcting' them via a series of invasive surgeries when they were younger, as well as forcing them to take hormones they didn't consent to. Especially when their parents had a 50/50 choice they never needed to make and made the wrong one, now that person is intersex and also has to transition. And sadly, people in my own community don't accept them as being part of ours due to some small differences. I really feel bad for the people who experience this, I cannot imagine. My experiences have been an unlucky accident of birth. Theirs could have been avoided.

People being forced to have their bodies have unnecessary cosmetic genital surgery on them as babies (including any form of circumcision, yes) is not the same as you by happenchance being born into a family of alcoholics. Nobody forced you to start drinking. I could blame my dad for my drug use being a result of his abuse, but frankly it's moreso a result of my lack of adaptive coping mechanisms. Intersex people didn't get a choice, and they had these decisions made for them when they were neither medically necessary, nor even advisable. It's being outlawed all over the world.

Which gender affirming surgeries are you talking about happening for those minors. I said it occasionally happens for 16 year olds. With a long term history of dysphoria. If I'd been diagnosed as a child like i should have been I would have been thrilled to have surgery at 16. I didn't change my mind since I did at 19 and I wouldn't have if I transitioned earlier.

As an aside, suicide is relevant to the discussion. When you post talking about doing things like limiting any form of gender affirming care, no matter how reversible it is from access by children who are trans, the end result is often suicide. The statistics reflect this. You cannot strip that away from the argument, for better or for worse. Gender affirming care is medically necessary for those of us who need it. I would have been dead in the ground a decade ago if I couldn't have done what I did. I remember the night I realised I was trans and I would have to tell my whole family and risk them disowning me, and then also realising I couldn't continue pretending to be a girl. I tried to hang myself that night in my parents garage. Gender affirming surgery is considered medically necessary for those who require it. It's not a matter of we can do without it.

 

[Droppersneck]

Can you STFU already? You said you don't want to engage with me, so don't. Don't tag me with your trivial complaining if you don't want me to interact with you. You're the one who's baiting.

I don’t know how many times I have to say this, but that dude is a troll. 100%. I know these things.

 

[Droppersneck]

Excellent question. Once they stop taking the blockers, it's expected that puberty would then commence as per the individual's biological sex, provided no other interventions (like gender-affirming hormone therapy) are undertaken, psycho-therapy is one of the treatments alongside this, the decision to undergo hormone therapy or to be taken off is usually made a few years in, after psychiatrists/therapists as with the physician have decided the patient is ready to either stop or continue.

There ARE risks associated with starting blockers early on in puberty, and those risks should be deeply considered more by health professionals. And more research I believe should be done, to look into cases such as your question more.

The Endocrine Society has a nice write up on this, on how they usually go about Gender Affirming Care in those ages.
https://www.endocrine.org/patient-e...r-and-gender-diverse-children-and-adolescents

So you could be like 30 and go through puberty? The futures gonna be wild, you know people are gonna document this on tiktok when they de transition. Would be smart to be the first one to do it, could make a ton.

 

[Mjäll]

14 year old trans children aren't being given that. So it's a moot point. Not anywhere I live, anyway. I've heard of 16 being the minimum for hormones, and only in the situation I described earlier when they have a long demonstrated and verifiable history. And certain no bottom surgery prior to age 18. No one can really afford it anyway, so it's again sort of a moot point. I'd love bottom surgery but at a price point of $100k it's not happening for me and 99% of other trans people and we learn to live with that.

Gender dysphoria is a medical condition. On brain scans, trans people are shown to have brains which more closely match the gender we identify as rather than our sex at birth. We know conversion therapy doesn't work. A lifetime of existing in a system designed to make sure I was cis still didn't work, and I remained trans.

So yes, if a trans person wants to do things to their body that will help them feel comfortable, and which medical professionals agree is right for them as an adult in terms of surgery, we should respect that. I don't see how it impacts anybody else. It's weird to be this interested in other peoples genitals. If Andrew Tate wants a huge dick, then he can have at it. It isn't my body, it's his.

I'm glad most people don't experience how shitty dysphoria feels like. But I wish they could understand how great it feels to be able to fix it.

They've done transition stuff (hormones, surgery) on kids at least as young as 14 in Sweden. 2 minute search.

"10-19 years old" is listed as an age span of children having been transitioned - in a public service media outlet which is of course a trustworthy source in this context. Thankfully the law was changed to not allow this insanity a few years back. But it has indeed happened. Your rose tinted view is a rose tinted view.

 

[Electrum1]

Yeah they do it on kids in that age group here (U.S.) too but it's denied that it happens. Anybody can go see the amount of women on social media that regret having their breasts removed at age 16 or whatever age below 18