⫸Trans and LGBTQIA+ Discussion⫷

[Droppersneck]

Are you saying that minorities and younger people are not intelligent enough to find an enlightened forum such as this and have the curiosity and global awareness to want to engage in these debates?
I am appalled, that is so racist
Let's be real though. White men create the most comfortable and affluent societies. That's why everyone wants to move to these countries. The reasons for their fall from status is another story though.


That's ironic as the facts tend to disprove this (very new) field of gender ideology.
You're assuming the intentions of others simply for disagreeing with you. Don't confuse a genuine search for truth as "hate". As for jokes, we make them about every group (if I'm Jewish then am I a "white man"?) Also just because I may consider someone mentally ill does not mean I wish them harm, quite the opposite. I would like an honest forum so that we can find the best treatments for each individual, even if said treatment hurts the feelings of some observers. And it's safe to say that we all want what's best for children. But the world is a crazy place. Some of us think what's best for kids is strong medications along with irreversible surgeries. That's quite an extreme position so any proponents should make sure they have a ton of evidence backing up what they're supporting.


We cannot make people think a certain way. But we can ruin their reputations and careers if they disagree too loudly. We can ruin them financially, pressure banks to close their accounts, or we can send them to gulag (oh wait we're not quite there yet).


A young child who transitions becomes a big pharma customer for life. I don't $ee why tho$e companie$ wouldn't publish $tudies that critici$e medication protocol$.


Well our sexual identity is heavily shaped by our initial sexual experiences. I can only imagine the pain and confusion that a young person goes through who is sexually assaulted, especially by someone they trust. I do not blame many of them for turning out sexually dysfunctional or mentally ill. I would like to see more honest clinical study here but unfortunately this subject is extremely controversial and our academic institutions are captured by ideology and dogmatic thinking, which includes censoring dissenters of the message.

And since you asked, here is an interesting scientific hypothesis:

Yup it’s another big grift just like oxy.

Ot: can you explain to me how establishment liberals consider people not wanting their kids exposed to sexual content to be genocide? What’s their reasoning, shits too bizarre now to even wrap my head around.

 

[mal3volent]

Well our sexual identity is heavily shaped by our initial sexual experiences. I can only imagine the pain and confusion that a young person goes through who is sexually assaulted, especially by someone they trust. I do not blame many of them for turning out sexually dysfunctional or mentally ill. I would like to see more honest clinical study here but unfortunately this subject is extremely controversial and our academic institutions are captured by ideology and dogmatic thinking, which includes censoring dissenters of the message.

So the straight boy, in pain and confused after being sexually assaulted by a man, is turned gay by a germ that is present in (I assume) the pedophile's semen? And the germ is so strong that it overrides the boy's natural instincts AND his inevitable avoidance of the sex (male) who traumatized him?

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

So the straight boy, in pain and confused after being sexually assaulted by a man, is turned gay by a germ that is present in (I assume) the pedophile's semen? And the germ is so strong that it overrides the boy's natural instincts AND his inevitable avoidance of the sex (male) who traumatized him?

It is either totally ignorant or incredibly disingenuous to say that people who are sexually abused when they are young never have their sexuality moulded by those experiences. Anyone who has been around the kink scene for even a hot minute will tell you that childhood experiences (not even necessarily sexual ones) can impact heavily on the way people express their sexuality when they get older, and that people often seek to recreate trauma in their sexuality.

Sexuality (like almost all human behaviour) is borne of a mixture of both nature AND nurture, to completely ignore the nurture part of that equation and pretend it doesn't exist is incredibly foolish.

 

[mal3volent]

Anyone who has been around the kink scene for even a hot minute will tell you that childhood experiences (not even necessarily sexual ones) can impact heavily on the way people express their sexuality when they get older

Being gay isn't "expressing your sexuality" or a kink. It is an orientation that you are born with.

Unless you believe non human animals are also turned gay by traumas in their childhood.

 

[nepalnt21]

Not Final! – Key post where Cochran reviews the case for the gay germ

soooo... basically, it must be a germ because all of the other ideas he's ostensibly ruled out are... ruled out.

sooo... basically, a classic sherlock holmes fallacy.

 

[mal3volent]

Obviously it is an expression of sexuality, that's EXACTLY what a sexual orientation is. Especially with a homosexual preference as it cannot be looked as at an instinct to procreate which a heterosexual drive could be explained as.

"Male homosexuality has been viewed by evolutionary psychologists as a Darwinian paradox, and by other social scientists as a social construction. We argue that it is better understood as an evolutionary social construction. Male homosexuality as we now know it is an 18th-century invention, but nonexclusive same-sex sexual behavior has a long evolutionary history. According to the alliance-formation hypothesis, same-sex sexuality evolved by natural selection because it created or strengthened male-male alliances and allowed low-status males to reposition themselves in the group hierarchy and thereby increase their reproductive success. This hypothesis makes sense of some odd findings about male homosexuality and helps to explain the rise in exclusive male homosexuality in the 18th century. The sociohistorical conditions around 1700 may have resulted in an increase in same-sex sexual behavior. Cultural responses to same-sex sexuality led to the spread of exclusive homosexual behavior and to the creation of a homosexual identity. Understanding male homosexuality as an evolutionary social construction can help us move beyond the traditionally polarized debate between evolutionary psychologists and social constructionists."

The evolution of a social construction: the case of male homosexuality - PubMed

Male homosexuality has been viewed by evolutionary psychologists as a Darwinian paradox, and by other social scientists as a social construction. We argue that it is better understood as an evolutionary social construction. Male homosexuality as we now know it is an 18th-century invention, but...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

"Male homosexuality has been viewed by evolutionary psychologists as a Darwinian paradox, and by other social scientists as a social construction. We argue that it is better understood as an evolutionary social construction. Male homosexuality as we now know it is an 18th-century invention, but nonexclusive same-sex sexual behavior has a long evolutionary history. According to the alliance-formation hypothesis, same-sex sexuality evolved by natural selection because it created or strengthened male-male alliances and allowed low-status males to reposition themselves in the group hierarchy and thereby increase their reproductive success. This hypothesis makes sense of some odd findings about male homosexuality and helps to explain the rise in exclusive male homosexuality in the 18th century. The sociohistorical conditions around 1700 may have resulted in an increase in same-sex sexual behavior. Cultural responses to same-sex sexuality led to the spread of exclusive homosexual behavior and to the creation of a homosexual identity. Understanding male homosexuality as an evolutionary social construction can help us move beyond the traditionally polarized debate between evolutionary psychologists and social constructionists."

The evolution of a social construction: the case of male homosexuality - PubMed

Male homosexuality has been viewed by evolutionary psychologists as a Darwinian paradox, and by other social scientists as a social construction. We argue that it is better understood as an evolutionary social construction. Male homosexuality as we now know it is an 18th-century invention, but...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

None of that contradicts anything that I've said in any way. Do you think that it does?

Keep digging pal.

 

[mal3volent]

You seem quite bothered.

All I did was inform you that homosexuality is an orientation not an "expression". Then I posted an article that was relevant to the conversation.

Seems unhinged to call me an idiot three times just for that.

 

[Droppersneck]

"Male homosexuality has been viewed by evolutionary psychologists as a Darwinian paradox, and by other social scientists as a social construction. We argue that it is better understood as an evolutionary social construction. Male homosexuality as we now know it is an 18th-century invention, but nonexclusive same-sex sexual behavior has a long evolutionary history. According to the alliance-formation hypothesis, same-sex sexuality evolved by natural selection because it created or strengthened male-male alliances and allowed low-status males to reposition themselves in the group hierarchy and thereby increase their reproductive success. This hypothesis makes sense of some odd findings about male homosexuality and helps to explain the rise in exclusive male homosexuality in the 18th century. The sociohistorical conditions around 1700 may have resulted in an increase in same-sex sexual behavior. Cultural responses to same-sex sexuality led to the spread of exclusive homosexual behavior and to the creation of a homosexual identity. Understanding male homosexuality as an evolutionary social construction can help us move beyond the traditionally polarized debate between evolutionary psychologists and social constructionists."

The evolution of a social construction: the case of male homosexuality - PubMed

Male homosexuality has been viewed by evolutionary psychologists as a Darwinian paradox, and by other social scientists as a social construction. We argue that it is better understood as an evolutionary social construction. Male homosexuality as we now know it is an 18th-century invention, but...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Imo it’s mother natures way of population control

 

[swilow]

Also it's worth nothing that the phrase 'has been viewed as....' means nothing more than that, it's a theory. It's in no way any form of proof of accuracy of the theory being proposed.

You're an idiot.

Drop the name calling, mate.

 

[nepalnt21]

Imo it’s mother natures way of population control

how would you explain bisexuality then?

also there is no "mother" nature in a literal sense, no force that installs genetic backdoors for population control. your opinion makes no sense in this instance.

 

[Droppersneck]

how would you explain bisexuality then?

also there is no "mother" nature in a literal sense, no force that installs genetic backdoors for population control. your opinion makes no sense in this instance.

Now tell me how many genders there are.

 

[arrall]

Now tell me how many genders there are.

Bisexuality is generally attraction to one or more sexes, not genders.

 

[swilow]

Bisexuality is generally attraction to one or more sexes, not genders.

How are we defining "gender" and "sexes" here?

 

[nepalnt21]

Now tell me how many genders there are.

i'm good

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

gender benders



so gender is how you feel


and then sex is anatomical

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

 

[JGrimez]

This is interesting:
PRAYER TO CHANGE SEXUAL ORIENTATION TO BE BANNED IN VICTORIA

They wouldn't need to ban if it didn't work.
And it can actually work but not by "praying the gay away".
Through hypnosis you can locate nonlocal entities of the opposite sex who are causing a susceptible person to be homosexual.
It should never be forced but people should have the choice to try things if they want.
So who knows, maybe the "pathogen" is non-physical?

 

[SvnLyrBrto]

LOLWUT?

Every doctor, dentist, optometrist, and physical therapist who's ever treated me has asked... usually in writing before I even saw them... for a lot more than that; most of which is a lot more personal, and sometimes intrusive, than just my gender or pronouns. The quiz when being admitted to a hospital asked for a good order of magnitude more. It's just the routine intake process to establish a file and the basics of medical history prior to treatment. Questions aren't actions or judgements. They're just how those of us who are neither telepathic nor clairvoyant gather information. And if you're going to go into aggro meathead mode over mere questions, maybe look inward and see therapy.

 

[swilow]

This is interesting:
PRAYER TO CHANGE SEXUAL ORIENTATION TO BE BANNED IN VICTORIA

They wouldn't need to ban if it didn't work.
And it can actually work but not by "praying the gay away".
Through hypnosis you can locate nonlocal entities of the opposite sex who are causing a susceptible person to be homosexual.
It should never be forced but people should have the choice to try things if they want.
So who knows, maybe the "pathogen" is non-physical.

A few things- prayer isn't hypnosis. Prayer is just thinking.
Something getting banned doesn't mean it "works". That's a ridiculous claim. Things that don't work, like homoeopathy haven't been banned.
Whatever a non local entity actually is, its pretty likely that the "cause" of homosexuality is at least partially biological and not some mysterious boogeyman.

Fwiw, I don't think conversion therapy should be banned. People should be allowed to do stupid, pointless things if they are able to consent to it. So, children shouldn't be exposed to this sort of stuff. Rather than banning it, just expose it as the snake oil nonsense it is and hope that people's good sense wins out.