Is Opiod withdrawal easy?

[smokeymcpot42088]

We do not disagree as much as you may imagine. I agree benzos should really only be scripted for a few weeks, but 25 years ago when I was scripted restoril (temazepam) for insomnia (on label) I requested to be changed to klonopin or xanax as the pharmacy had somethin against temaz and awkward eyed me, even called my doc and asked if he got the dosage right. 3 30mgs a day, hardly heroic.

You say addiction potential isnt the only reason benzos shouldn't be used, than back it up with the (exaggerated) premise that the whole population is addicted. You can't say addiction isn't the only reason than cite addiction as the other reason......it is nonsense. What I presume you meant (sorry) is that benzos have decreasing effects at the same dosage daily over time. So like a tolerance? What drug do you not build a tolerance to?

ope nope thats your next point. Yes tolerance is VERY VERY VERY real; with about every drug. Do you not gain a tolerance to your opiates? does one 7.5mg hydro still do the trick for you? Soo same thing right? And that is exactly what i mean with the 2 categories, if you can get them on and off and three weeks; that IS how it SHOULD be done. Those of us who have had them for 20 plus years I think the best course of action is keep them on, you already missed the graceful exit boat; now your looking at opening the life threatening withdrawl door. I prefer that one stay closed.

be glad to hear that most people are like me. I have only met 2 individuals who say there 'benzo receptors' are blown. Both online, never in person....and I would bet dollars to donuts I could get a gram of clam and put em on the ground without breakin 10%. Thats not a broken receptor, that is tolerance.

Only bad thing I have to say about benzos; after everything; is they become very very dangerous if you can't access them. Down right life threatening. You are tied to your bottle like an anchor and like any other drug. That sucks.

Talk what you want but addiction potential isn’t only reason benzos shouldn’t be used for longer than 3 weeks. Fact that people have them prescribed for decades doesn’t mean anything but that whole populations are addicted because of that.

Also a lot (same) like with beer with time you build up tolerance and need more to get (most) of the effects. For example starting dose of clonazepam is 0.5mg daily while after enough time, same people get prescribed up to 6mg daily. With diazepam sometimes it starts with 2mg as needed and same people end up on 30+mg daily. With alprazolam it can be low as 0.125mg as needed at the beginning and with time 6+mg daily.

I’m glad to hear that there are people lucky as you but most of people I know who use benzos daily with years and decades of use both escalate dose and get additional meds for issues which benzos stop helping with. Benzos don’t help with sleep anymore? Here’s mitrazapine. Benzos don’t really help with anxiety anymore? Here’s this SSRI. And so on… While most of those people would hugely benefit from stopping them, going trough WD and starting another meds, but that’s too expensive to do in our society. And really curing issues for which benzos are used, be it with drugs or therapies, is seen even less often.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Do you not gain a tolerance to your opiates?

Ofc I do, but with any opiate I used for long enough it remained effective as pain-relief and I needed to up the dose only for recreational effects and antidepressant effects.

Like someone mentioned in other thread, people who use benzos for anti-colvusant properties build tolerance even to that effects and benefit from taking antagonists to partly reset tolerance. I would be glad to give a chance to something like that as I’m pretty sure if I would take benzo years from now that I would get most of the good effects as before. I do think most people would get back positive effects from benzos after long enough pause but problem is that they would first need to go trough very unpleasant and even more problematic, very long WD. I also believe most people who claim they have have long term consequences from benzo use in fact, after initial rebound anxiety passes, in fact just miss effects of benzos. Like a friend who was prescribed only 2mg diazepam pills, max 3 times daily after he had a surgery, for muscle relaxant properties said to me how he didn’t get high from diazepam but surely noticed something missing after he stopped even he had zero WD.

For me even being addicted to benzos isn’t that problematic as it’s effects on memory and cognitive capabilities, and I never notice that until I take a break that’s longer than a month or two. While I’m on benzos, certain confidence boost they give is enough to not notice bad effects, in a sense like you can be smashed from a benzo and think you appear sober enough.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

The memory and cognitive abilities certainly become more of a concern with aging.

as far as tolerance I was prescribed 3 temaz 30s 25 ish years ago, than i was on 4mg of klonopin for many years, now 3. (2.75 but who cares) and without it there is no hope of sleep.....I believe the 2.75 is doing as much as the 4mg was when i was use to it.
*edit* and this isnt even considering the 2010 benzo gold rush type thing that happened.

PAWS is particularly bad with benzos, I believe what you are describing with ppl 'just missing the high' is truly paws.

I would never ever play with a benzo antagonist - thats a protip I dont care who said what.

back to my original point the big problem with benzos; lack of access to benzos. (I also believe this to be true with opiates, legalize and watch the fent dissapear from the dope. I know since pot is semi-legal ive went from buying about 5-10% thc on a good day to being able to get a gram of 90% thc for like 10 dollars. THAT IS PROGRESS

*edit you are absolutely right about the anti depressants, anti psych meds.....they will throw those at you if they can, it is your job to control what goes in your body. imo at least.

 

[JustferFun]

On the topic of benzos, I had been prescribed low doses on and off for years for an anxiety disorder. I was only taking 1-1.5 mg of klonopin a day when I went to rehab. At the time, I brought my bottle with me because it was prescribed to me and I never once abused it. For me, benzos have zero recreational value. I was shocked when the 12 steppers wouldn't let me take it.

The withdrawal from it was not something that I should have had to deal with in that situation. It wasn't terrible, but it was persistent and took a long time to recover from. That was the absolute last thing I needed at the time. I was pretty much miserable as the 12 steppers gave me the tiniest possible doses of suboxone for only 4 days. I guess they didn't realize that I couldn't possibly gain much of value from the rehab if I was constantly feeling like shit......If you have an anxiety disorder and have to go through benzo withdrawal, the rebound anxiety is going to be through the roof. Forget about sleeping. I actually did manage to get a couple hours here and there. Had I been taking larger doses, I would've been completely screwed.

There was another occasion a few years later when I went to a place called a crisis center. I forgot to take my bottle with me and the doctor there wouldn't give me any. I could've left any time I wanted. I wasn't really concerned about the klonopin withdrawal because I wasn't taking much and I hadn't been back on it for a long time. But I couldn't sleep a single wink for 4 days straight and I couldn't figure out why. I was feeling strange on that 4th or 5th day, like kind of manic. My limbs were kind of jerking around too. Next thing I know, I wake up in an ambulance and had no clue why I was in there.......I had had a seizure for the first time in my life. I remember one of the nurses told me later on that it lasted for 7 minutes.

There's something called the "kindling" effect. Each withdrawal event sort of builds on the previous ones and leaves you more vulnerable. I guess that's what happened to me. Taking people off of benzos cold turkey should be considered medical malpractice. I don't take benzos anymore because I'm scared shitless of that happening again.

 

[skipjames]

Opioid w-d , as others have already said, it s not "easy " but does not necessarily has to be some sort of Trainspotting style hell, it s unpleasant but doable if you have access to something to ease the pain. Personally after a number of hellish experiences in my 17 years on and off relationship with opioids, I ve found what works for me, I need kratom, loperamide and last but not least benzos, kratom can help with the more physical part, loperamide with the shits, but if I don t have benzos I ll be an anxious mess for 5 -6 days. The hardest part is the psychological one, I m still not over it and I dunno whether one day I ll be over it, if ever...Also , determination (are you quitting because you want to or because you have to?) and availability play a huge part. Down here opioids are not a thing, I had basically only a plug which now is no more, so either I go all Drugstore Cowboys assaulting pharmacies which is not really my style or I sit and take it. But if smack or oxys were only one phone call away oh man....

 

[JustferFun]

Opioid w-d , as others have already said, it s not "easy " but does not necessarily has to be some sort of Trainspotting style hell, it s unpleasant but doable if you have access to something to ease the pain. Personally after a number of hellish experiences in my 17 years on and off relationship with opioids, I ve found what works for me, I need kratom, loperamide and last but not least benzos, kratom can help with the more physical part, loperamide with the shits, but if I don t have benzos I ll be an anxious mess for 5 -6 days. The hardest part is the psychological one, I m still not over it and I dunno whether one day I ll be over it, if ever...Also , determination (are you quitting because you want to or because you have to?) and availability play a huge part. Down here opioids are not a thing, I had basically only a plug which now is no more, so either I go all Drugstore Cowboys assaulting pharmacies which is not really my style or I sit and take it. But if smack or oxys were only one phone call away oh man....

This is part of the reason why I think fentanyl sucks so fucking bad......At least for me, there's no chance of kratom helping in the short term. Fent is so strong and raises your tolerance so much that even large doses of Suboxone don't work nearly as well as when I used it for H. It's such a shitty drug but it's obviously the only thing people can find anymore in a lot of places. Fentanyl is the reason why there should be no debate anymore about legalizing drugs.

As far as opioid withdrawal in general, there are degrees. Obviously, if you're banging a gram or two a day for years, it's going to be harder than someone using smaller amounts for shorter periods of time.

 

[skipjames]

This is part of the reason why I think fentanyl sucks so fucking bad......At least for me, there's no chance of kratom helping in the short term. Fent is so strong and raises your tolerance so much that even large doses of Suboxone don't work nearly as well as when I used it for H. It's such a shitty drug but it's obviously the only thing people can find anymore in a lot of places. Fentanyl is the reason why there should be no debate anymore about legalizing drugs.

As far as opioid withdrawal in general, there are degrees. Obviously, if you're banging a gram or two a day for years, it's going to be harder than someone using smaller amounts for shorter periods of time.

Yep, probably also the ROA makes a difference. I ve Ivved (actually had people Ivving me) smack at the beginning of my "career" but when I was addicted for real I was either smoking smack or parachuting oxys and morphine pills. no fun withdrawing from these but if I was Ivving probably things would be harder. Many friends of mine are not only addicted to smack and coke, are addicted to the needle, they would bang even cigarettes and weed if it was possible....Also, with pharma grade oxys and morphine my tolerance skyrocketed quickly but w-ds were more manageable , God knows the shite they cut heroin with back home or in the UK, so you end up addicted to heroin + some random poison. Fentanyl is not a thing yet in Europe let alone in South America, I ve tried it once (sold as "Synthetic China White" in a now defunct Deep web market) and honestly Someone defined it as "heroin with no soul, " pretty fitting.....but probably if it was either that or nothing I would happily use it and be dead already....Probably I need to move to the US to finally clean my act

 

[JustferFun]

Yep, probably also the ROA makes a difference. I ve Ivved (actually had people Ivving me) smack at the beginning of my "career" but when I was addicted for real I was either smoking smack or parachuting oxys and morphine pills. no fun withdrawing from these but if I was Ivving probably things would be harder. Many friends of mine are not only addicted to smack and coke, are addicted to the needle, they would bang even cigarettes and weed if it was possible....Also, with pharma grade oxys and morphine my tolerance skyrocketed quickly but w-ds were more manageable , God knows the shite they cut heroin with back home or in the UK, so you end up addicted to heroin + some random poison. Fentanyl is not a thing yet in Europe let alone in South America, I ve tried it once (sold as "Synthetic China White" in a now defunct Deep web market) and honestly Someone defined it as "heroin with no soul, " pretty fitting.....but probably if it was either that or nothing I would happily use it and be dead already....Probably I need to move to the US to finally clean my act

Yeah, the lack of real H is why I have no interest in dabbling anymore. I was out of the opiate scene for a few years when someone told me about some 30 mg "oxies." I had no idea at the time that they were obviously fake. It didn't take me long to figure it out but by then it was too late.

The only thing I'd even consider doing anymore would be poppy pods because you know exactly what you're getting. But the high from those is so much better than fentanyl that I don't trust myself with them. Once you really become dependent on fentanyl, you have to take it every few hours. It's very abrupt. It's not smooth at all. The withdrawal comes on fast and you can't take suboxone for at least 24 hours because it causes precipitated withdrawal. It's just a terrible drug. Everything about it sucks, including the high.

 

[skipjames]

Yeah, the lack of real H is why I have no interest in dabbling anymore. I was out of the opiate scene for a few years when someone told me about some 30 mg "oxies." I had no idea at the time that they were obviously fake. It didn't take me long to figure it out but by then it was too late.

The only thing I'd even consider doing anymore would be poppy pods because you know exactly what you're getting. But the high from those is so much better than fentanyl that I don't trust myself with them. Once you really become dependent on fentanyl, you have to take it every few hours. It's very abrupt. It's not smooth at all. The withdrawal comes on fast and you can't take suboxone for at least 24 hours because it causes precipitated withdrawal. It's just a terrible drug. Everything about it sucks, including the high.

My mother , bless her hearth, knows NOTHING about drugs. She s the kind of person that thinks that people inject marijuana,that drug users all ALL evil sociopathic derelicts etc Like I have smoked H in the loo when I was still living with my parents and I still do when I visit , no matter how high I was -am she has never noticed anything at all . I have used all kinds of drugs around her and she was always clueless. The only time even my mom realized that something was clearly off was when she was visiting and I was snorting this "Synthetic China white " Fentanyl shite. All the cons of H without any of the "pros".

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

This is part of the reason why I think fentanyl sucks so fucking bad......At least for me, there's no chance of kratom helping in the short term. Fent is so strong and raises your tolerance so much that even large doses of Suboxone don't work nearly as well as when I used it for H. It's such a shitty drug but it's obviously the only thing people can find anymore in a lot of places. Fentanyl is the reason why there should be no debate anymore about legalizing drugs.

As far as opioid withdrawal in general, there are degrees. Obviously, if you're banging a gram or two a day for years, it's going to be harder than someone using smaller amounts for shorter periods of time.

fent is the damn devil and should be considered a chemical weapon more than a drug. (see russia fent gas theatre).

Fentanyl is a great reason there should be no more debate about legalizing drugs. It is popping up in coke RIP Micheal Kenneth Williams (omar from the wire) got some fet coke and kicked. I have heard of fent weed!

The cartels have lost there competitive advantage on weed because, idk its worth 5-20 more bucks to know it went through a testing facility. (yea i know they exagerate the thc percent a bit but i hope theyd flag a laced batch real quick) different levels of unethical behavior by a long shot.

Still not perfect. Still not completely legal.

There are definitely degrees of opiate withdrawl like justfer said. I wonder if duration or amount effects w/d intensity the most. Or the kindling effect where every time it gets worse.

Also the beginning of our stories are quite similar they got me for pot and put me in an 8 week rehab class. I lawyered and doctored up and got a script for codeine and benzos. I would BRING them to the hospital rehab. NOS energy drink in the middle of the table. Codeine on the left, benzos on the right. (we got pocket checked on the way in).....whenever she said something I didn't particularly agree with Id take 1/2 a klonopin or a sip of codeine. True story, got her fired. She couldnt stand it and went to my doc at the time and that is called a confidentiality breech.

say that with me breech of confidentiality. Sign as little as possible. They are equally lazy and dont like reading the thing you were supposee to have filled out and signed. Especially receptionists. Dont sign nothin for as long as possible. (might not work at all, for me it was almost ten years before they finally got a jon hancock) and that was no trickery really just quit givin me 12 page forms to fill out than callin me to the doctor. He deserves my attention. I know what these forms are all about.....

 

[JustferFun]

My mother , bless her hearth, knows NOTHING about drugs. She s the kind of person that thinks that people inject marijuana,that drug users all ALL evil sociopathic derelicts etc Like I have smoked H in the loo when I was still living with my parents and I still do when I visit , no matter how high I was -am she has never noticed anything at all . I have used all kinds of drugs around her and she was always clueless. The only time even my mom realized that something was clearly off was when she was visiting and I was snorting this "Synthetic China white " Fentanyl shite. All the cons of H without any of the "pros".

I think people in most parts of the world still don't really understand addiction and dependence. It's still demonized a lot. My parents had no clue about drugs lol. But I gradually got them accustomed to it with things like weed when I was younger. Still, there was only one period of drug use that they knew about (cocaine and heroin), and the only reason they knew about that is because somebody snitched on me.

We've actually come a long way in the US, but only because middle class/ upper class white people started getting addicted to Oxycontin and then moved on to heroin when the Oxy supply dried up.

Before that, nobody really cared about poor people and people of color being addicted to drugs. In that case, it was just a character flaw lol. But when "regular" people started becoming addicted en masse, it suddenly wasn't a character flaw anymore.

 

[skipjames]

they got me for pot and put me in an 8 week rehab class

sending someone to rehab for pot is as criminal and insane as sending a 18 years old first offender to a maximum security prison full of hardened criminals. You go there for pot and when you leave you are likely to do H coke or both, happened to some acquaintances of mine....

 

[skipjames]

I think people in most parts of the world still don't really understand addiction and dependence. It's still demonized a lot. My parents had no clue about drugs lol. But I gradually got them accustomed to it with things like weed when I was younger. Still, there was only one period of drug use that they knew about (cocaine and heroin).

We've actually come a long way in the US, but only because middle class/ upper class white people started getting addicted to Oxycontin and then moved on to heroin when the Oxy supply dried up.

Before that, nobody really cared about poor people and people of color being addicted to drugs. In that case, it was just a character flaw lol. But when "regular" people started becoming addicted en masse, it suddenly wasn't a character flaw anymore.

During the 80´s there was a smack epidemic in Europe and Italy was hit HARD by it (dunno whether you were visiting already). Needles everywhere, people odding on a daily basis, HIV, junkies stealing here and there, so the social perception was "drug =evil". Now coke is the new weed (everyone and their mother are doing it) H is still taboo but behind close doors lots of people are using it again (after snorting that shitty "coke" u need something to chill...)

 

[JustferFun]

During the 80´s there was a smack epidemic in Europe and Italy was hit HARD by it (dunno whether you were visiting already). Needles everywhere, people odding on a daily basis, HIV, junkies stealing here and there, so the social perception was "drug =evil". Now coke is the new weed (everyone and their mother are doing it) H is still taboo but behind close doors lots of people are using it again (after snorting that shitty "coke" u need something to chill...)

My cousin in Sicily was snorting heroin in the 90's but he stopped before it really got out of hand. I remember seeing syringes on the beach. Come to think of it, watching the sunset on a beach in Sicily on H would be pretty fucking cool lol.

 

[skipjames]

My cousin in Sicily was snorting heroin in the 90's but he stopped before it really got out of hand. I remember seeing syringes on the beach. Come to think of it, watching the sunset on a beach in Sicily on H would be pretty fucking cool lol.

Even in Puglia, trust me

 

[JustferFun]

During the 80´s there was a smack epidemic in Europe and Italy was hit HARD by it (dunno whether you were visiting already). Needles everywhere, people odding on a daily basis, HIV, junkies stealing here and there, so the social perception was "drug =evil". Now coke is the new weed (everyone and their mother are doing it) H is still taboo but behind close doors lots of people are using it again (after snorting that shitty "coke" u need something to chill...)

I have a hard time with coke by itself. When it runs out, I feel like a nervous wreck.

 

[DrDarkside]

I went on a small binge for about a week recently, doing between 0.1 to 0.2g of heroin a day (smoked) - I have had a fair share of polydrug abuse throughout my life, with my drug of choice being opiates, I have gone through many withdrawals. I am currently on day 3 with no opiates, I had very minor withdrawal symptoms, the worst of it being psychological.
Today (Day 3) I dont feel too bad, low energy little bit of a runny nose, a lot of yawning and some slight temperature fluctuations.
It is safe to say im slightly physically dependant at the moment, and I know I am on a slippery slope here, there is about quarter of a gram of H locked away and I have one suspect (prob fake) 40mg Oxy at my disposal, If I were to use today would it just solidify my dependance and give me another 4-5 days of withdrawal or could I use today and not feel too bad in the coming days?

 

[Delmonte421]

I went on a small binge for about a week recently, doing between 0.1 to 0.2g of heroin a day (smoked) - I have had a fair share of polydrug abuse throughout my life, with my drug of choice being opiates, I have gone through many withdrawals. I am currently on day 3 with no opiates, I had very minor withdrawal symptoms, the worst of it being psychological.
Today (Day 3) I dont feel too bad, low energy little bit of a runny nose, a lot of yawning and some slight temperature fluctuations.
It is safe to say im slightly physically dependant at the moment, and I know I am on a slippery slope here, there is about quarter of a gram of H locked away and I have one suspect (prob fake) 40mg Oxy at my disposal, If I were to use today would it just solidify my dependance and give me another 4-5 days of withdrawal or could I use today and not feel too bad in the coming days?

it will for sure reset you.....

 

[DrDarkside]

it will for sure reset you.....

As in I will have to do it all again? How long do you think I should wait?

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

I have a hard time with coke by itself. When it runs out, I feel like a nervous wreck.

By god get the doctors and scientists, I have never heard of a reaction like this! lol sorry not picking on you or laughing at you at all, I just about spit my orange juice out when I read that lol. That is suppose to happen from what I understand about coke. (admittedly not a heavily researched topic)

dr. darkside-- I am pretty sure he means yes you would again be addicted and facing withdrawls. As a blanket statement, anything you do everyday your addicted to, or 4 days out of the week every week. If you previously have had a habit I wouldnt go more than 3 days and expect not to have a habit again. Oops on a second read you are in w/d wondering if a dose would reset them. I would tend to disagree and say a single dose 3 days after quitting will not put you back to square one, the next day may not be chipper.....it certainly won't be as bad as the first day one though.

Yea it is criminal to send an 18 yr old to rehab for pot. I also found it criminal how they got there patriot act no knock warrant was sending a CI into my house 3 times, 3 times I tell him i dont sell kick rocks.....they get a warrant for my trash, find zig zags. ---- "Small time dealers are known to sell single joints at a time. Based on the # of packs of zig zags in the garbage probable cause is granted for a NO KNOCK PATRIOT ACT warrant".

because umm you know the money from those single joints is probably funding terrorism? Foreal I have never sold a joint, a $5 felony, no thanks. Not a penny ok actually only pennies in the house. "Where is your money" "I am 18 and go to school I have none". Not a single dollar bill in my house lmao. "HOW ARE YOU GUNNA EAT TONIGHT" --- "pretty sure you guys will be feeding me tonight". Lmao.

kids. The problem is they never let go of there grudge, now im a grown ass man and (TRULY) uninvolved with the 'drug circles' and they are still hunting me so I gotta live like a damn celebrity who's every move is scrutinized. FTP. Blue lives matter, umm a little I guess. A cop dies on duty I think his pay should stop the moment his heart does. no extra shit. He was doing his job; that is all. I dont give a flying flip about your family or the impact on xyz. The same way when a cartel thug gets gunned down I dont worry and go "but the impact to the community, you know he was a good father and family man" Nope live by the gun die by the gun.

sorry some personal thoughts may have spewed out