Why do Americans say shit about ww2 like "you'd be speaking German if it wasn't for us"?

[Fire&Water]

See ...
I snickered

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Hmmm. "Ha, ha. The libs are upset."
"Hey, we were just trying to get the libs upset."

The last election showed that Donald Trump kept his biggest promise. He pissed off the libs.
Maybe libs react differently. They vote or discuss facts. Damn libs.

A conservative is a conservative, someone I can agree to disagree with. A Trumper is different in many cases.

The "owning the libs" stuff of many Trumpers proves something that I've said for years.

They are just someone who is pissed off because they ended up making a living working for the kids they picked on in high school.

 

[December Flower]

Hmmm. "The libs are upset."
"Hey, we were just trying to get the libs upset."

The last election showed that Donald Trump kept his biggest promise. He pissed off the libs.
Maybe libs react differently. They vote or discuss facts. Damn libs.

A conservative is a conservative, someone I can agree to disagree with. A Trumper is different in many cases.

The "owning the libs" stuff of many Trumpers however proves something that I've said for years.

They are just someone who is pissed off because they ended up making a living working for the kids they picked on in high school.

I find both parties concerning, yet can't shake the feeling they're not at war at all,
and that it's only the people who are supposed to be at war.

I don't see much difference between a Rep or Dem president. Obama got the peace nobel prize,
engaged in 5 wars and risked a sixth(Afghanistan, Islamic State, Iraq, Syria, Yemen and risking another Iran conflict), more than any other president before him, and with Trump a Republican president stepped out of line and did many good things with his foreign policy - talks with fucking North Korea, that's worth a nobel peace prize, and guess what? was ridiculed for it by the media so much from both sides, Reps and Dems - that alone shows me it's one single machinery that wants things to go a certain way and when they don't it will do everything in its power to stop it. They tried ending his term ASAP. And I don't see US's foreign policy changing with other presidents, only domestic policy.

 

[Delmonte421]

Yeah - all based on railways.

I can see Ukraine being destroyed but damaging Russia so much that it becomes only a minor power. I mean, it has NO semiconductor fabrication and announced an investment of $28 billion for 28nm lithography. 28nm is actually a good option, but it's going to be 20+ years behind others. 28nm fab is so old many people are selling fab second-hand.

China will be the ONLY supplier.... so expect China to demand vast amounts of hydrocarbons.

why do you think china is so interested in Taiwan lol its not just because it's a small island but its semiconductor tech.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Trump a Republican president stepped out of line and did many good things with his foreign policy - talks with fucking North Korea, that's worth a nobel peace prize,

Really? And what was accomplished?

 

[Las Veghost grower]

I feel like the joke behind it all with me is that I'm not even really a conservative but I keep getting called it and it's always hardcore liberals calling me that - so I sometimes run with it

Conservatives call me a liberal because I'm a little too liberal and liberals call me a conservative because I'm not liberal enough

So really that's why it's all a joke to me


I'm just glad that we can all agree, that if it wasn't for the United States...

I think your working your way to being a full blownsy conservative…it’s not a easy transition to make I know, I been there, but eventually you’ll just say, damnit these people are nuts

 

[somnilicious]

Yes pretty much. It's hard to stay on topic when you're being confronted with everything.

I want to know just as well how it's related when I say "The US bombed our cities full of civilians, only women, children and seniors to be exact" and the answer is something like "Yeah but the Nazis killed all the Jews and they killed children too" (or something like that was his answer) as if that somehow allows killing civilians or makes killing innocents and children somehow something that is positive and to be cherished. Or how that makes you the good guys by comparing your nation to the devil. Isn't that proving my point? Anyways

It's not good, and should not be cherished. It's fucking horrible. And I'm not going to accept that as the war-saving victory. US did it so they would get part of the spoils, which they got, and still to this day grab on to, other than the 3 other Allies who long ago moved out of Germany. US still 80k soldiers here, still bases, still military occupation, and we're still not an actual country. In fact German nationality is worth zilch, we have to get Bavarian, Bohemia, Silesian, something like that, or when war breaks out we can be used as gun-fodder - and nobody is told that, maybe 1% of the population know this and change their nationality on their pass. Germany is not a country, citizens of Germany have no constitution to back them up. What do you want me to say? "Thank you Uncle Sam, please shove that D a bit further into my home's throat while preparing to sacrifice it?" How can people expect me to change my opinion here? Just let me have mine, I let you have yours. For me it feels like many Americans just want to find a German who says US defeated Germany, yet all Germans say it was Russia, because..well it's the truth, dude. Russia did some fucked up stuff here too, and also did good things, just like the US. And I don't like either more or less, it's just fact that Russia defeated us. I'm not playing favourites here by saying US didn't defeat us - i'm just not willing to lie to protect brainwashed people.

And yeah that's my point. I hate all governments that have sufficient power to be a bad influence on the world. US, Russia, those are my top 2, but China is coming too, Germany I hate anyways how could i not?
I don't believe in the fairy tale that there are "good guys" amongst powerful governments. Have you seen the people who actually want to become politicians?

@somnilicious No i was not referring to you. I was referring to the people who trolled my opinion, because they can't take it. I would have never discussed so long if some fucking notion-fascists didn't disallow me my opinion by trying to ridicule it further and further.

I understand where you're coming from and respect your opinion. They are often times just trolling you so don't let it get you down or as they say "don't feed the trolls".

I love Germany and actually visited Frankfurt almost 30yrs ago so I have a strong affinity towards the German people. I've never thought of us as "the good guys", as a matter of fact, I believe all people and nations to be generally corrupt. That's why I feel your hatred is somewhat misplaced. There is never going to be "the good guys". People are just inherently sinful and thus nation governments try to reign in humanities flaws but as an extension of the people are imperfect and often times also commit sins.

We all try to make the world a better place and hopefully our governments can learn from the mistakes of the past but I doubt it nor would I have much hope for any other nation that was in America's shoes. We are not the arbiters of all the world's evil. There will one day be another country that takes America's place on the World stage and it's probably not going to be any better but perhaps much worse.

In regards to the topic I have always been highly aware of Russia's huge part in WW2 and would never dismiss their role in the allied victory. At the same time I would never dismiss America's big part in the allied victory.

I too am often embarrassed by some of the things my countrymen say. Often times I don't know whether they're joking or being serious but either way it's not a good look and I prefer to remain dignified with some humility while still remaining firm in expressing my view points but like others I'm fallible. It's important to remain civil in discourse.

I really believe that too many see the world too black and white. Things are either this or that when in reality the world has many more shades of grey. In being so rigid we lose all context and become narrow minded. This is happening to the extreme poles of both sides in the American political spectrum and to me both are the enemy and have the capacity to become authoritative dictatorships. Both have their own ideal utopia and both are fools.

 

[Las Veghost grower]

I find both parties concerning, yet can't shake the feeling they're not at war at all,
and that it's only the people who are supposed to be at war.

I think everyone in the country understands this….but at the end of the day when I’m in the presents of a neoliberal I feel like shooting myself in the face

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

I think your working your way to being a full blownsy conservative…it’s not a easy transition to make I know, I been there, but eventually you’ll just say, damnit these people are nuts

i already have said they're nuts - im not really on board much with the left anymore - a little bit - i like the moderates but there's not too many of them anymore

Joe Manchin might be my guy


but i'll tell ya, i get way less acceptance from the left than i do from the right - i feel like i have to follow everything to a tee or im out of the gang, where i feel like the right has a little more of a cushion

used to be the opposite

 

[Las Veghost grower]

i already have said they're nuts - im not really on board much with the left anymore - a little bit - i like the moderates but there's not too many of them anymore

Joe Manchin might be my guy


but i'll tell ya, i get way less acceptance from the left than i do from the right - i feel like i have to follow everything to a tee or im out of the gang, where i feel like the right has a little more of a cushion

used to be the opposite

Exactly, it’s clear who the fascist are , and I can’t wave that flag, not knowing where it leads

 

[somnilicious]

i already have said they're nuts - im not really on board much with the left anymore - a little bit - i like the moderates but there's not too many of them anymore

Joe Manchin might be my guy


but i'll tell ya, i get way less acceptance from the left than i do from the right - i feel like i have to follow everything to a tee or im out of the gang, where i feel like the right has a little more of a cushion

used to be the opposite

Off topic but honestly I feel that the further extreme the 2 sides go the riper the country becomes for the foundation of a 3rd party. The rift is leaving a lot of people left behind in the middle so maybe there is some hope for a broader democratic republic. Donald Trump was already a political outlier. It's happened before in American politics. Parties have split and new parties have formed.

I'm neither republican nor democrat. On some points I'm liberal and on other points I can be very conservative. I find it strange when people line up all their ideals neatly down party lines and I hate that you can't speak negatively about any party without everyone on that side coming out saying "all you people" and "what about" as if they have pin pointed you as one of those people(the enemy).

 

[Las Veghost grower]

I think most normal people agree with conservatives on some points and democrats on some points, but in the current hellscape you kind of have to choose a side you feel is more rational overall, and is going to make the lives of everyday citizens better not worse (like we’re seeing now), just the way it is at this moment…I mean the dem party is supposedly the party of the little guy, but the little guy is hurting more now then they have in quite a while

 

[Droppersneck]

I find both parties concerning, yet can't shake the feeling they're not at war at all,
and that it's only the people who are supposed to be at war.

I don't see much difference between a Rep or Dem president. Obama got the peace nobel prize,
engaged in 5 wars and risked a sixth(Afghanistan, Islamic State, Iraq, Syria, Yemen and risking another Iran conflict), more than any other president before him, and with Trump a Republican president stepped out of line and did many good things with his foreign policy - talks with fucking North Korea, that's worth a nobel peace prize, and guess what? was ridiculed for it by the media so much from both sides, Reps and Dems - that alone shows me it's one single machinery that wants things to go a certain way and when they don't it will do everything in its power to stop it. They tried ending his term ASAP. And I don't see US's foreign policy changing with other presidents, only domestic policy.

There is only establishment and anti establishment. Most liberals and neo cons don’t have a strong grasp of whats actually going on, rather they are simply reacting in a way they think their social group should. If the TV/social media etc declared there was unity then in their minds we would be unified. It’s really that simple, though I’d love to be wrong.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

I think most normal people agree with conservatives on some points and democrats on some points, but in the current hellscape you kind of have to choose a side you feel is more rational overall, and is going to make the lives of everyday citizens better not worse (like we’re seeing now), just the way it is at this moment…I mean the dem party is supposedly the party of the little guy, but the little guy is hurting more now then they have in quite a while

it's the stupid policies

im sorry but you can't just let loons run the streets and reduce the police force because you're trying to re-imagine that your better off without them because you think the cops might be racist or whatever the story is

i mean wtf

i am a downtown dweller - i love cities and i love all the action, but man, even i dont wanna go downtown anymore - i gotta watch women getting hit over the back of the head for no reason at all? because a loon is out there, on drugs, with a rap sheet longer than my sunday grocery store receipt?

all the while, it's more expensive to live downtown than ever before?

and then you cant even take matters into your own hands like you could in the old days, because there's a camera everywhere

 

[RoaminW]

We kept the UK from starving and kept them from an all-out loss from the Germans for YEARS before any American shot his rifle in Europe through the lend-lease program. During that time, merchant marines were getting killed by wolf-pack u-boats. The US, back then, could outproduce both the German war machine, and the Japanese war machine at the same time.
Ultimately, Germany would have starved the UK into submission if it weren’t for America. That’s not a slight against our kindred folks in the UK, it’s just a fact. Tell me how this isn’t true…

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

well if you ask Mr. Bavaria ova there, he thinks losing 26 million people means you won the war

 

[CFC]

We kept the UK from starving and kept them from an all-out loss from the Germans for YEARS before any American shot his rifle in Europe through the lend-lease program. During that time, merchant marines were getting killed by wolf-pack u-boats. The US, back then, could outproduce both the German war machine, and the Japanese war machine at the same time.
Ultimately, Germany would have starved the UK into submission if it weren’t for America. That’s not a slight against our kindred folks in the UK, it’s just a fact. Tell me how this isn’t true…

Sort of agreed. The UK hadn't been self-sufficient in food since at least the 1840s. We relied on the US, Canada, Europe and other countries (eg SA, Australia, Argentina) for food throughout that time. The merchant marine getting sunk was British though, not American. The US merchant marine started getting sunk when it joined the war - and catastrophically from a British supplies POV, since you guys took no precautions and paid no heed to British warnings, and were consequently obliterated by German submarines almost immediately. While it's unlikely the UK would have been literally starved after 1942, given the dramatic improvements made to submarine warfare and production at home (the UK became the most mechanized and intensive agricultural system in the world between 1939-45), they certainly would have struggled massively without US support, supplies and food in general.

It should be borne in mind for perspective, however, and coming back to the point I made about Australia's importance earlier in the thread, that without them, the US Pacific campaign would also have struggled. Because Australia's vast resource bounty and productive capacity was relied upon most heavily by the US (and other Allies) for food and equipment supplies in the Pacific sphere.

At the end of the day, most nations are interdependent in some way or other.

 

[December Flower]

We kept the UK from starving and kept them from an all-out loss from the Germans for YEARS before any American shot his rifle in Europe through the lend-lease program. During that time, merchant marines were getting killed by wolf-pack u-boats. The US, back then, could outproduce both the German war machine, and the Japanese war machine at the same time.
Ultimately, Germany would have starved the UK into submission if it weren’t for America. That’s not a slight against our kindred folks in the UK, it’s just a fact. Tell me how this isn’t true…

I mean I don't disagree, yet cannot see this as "being part of the war", as so many Americans claim. The US's gross national product was raised by 50 billion $ during WW2. As is the US the only country that profitted from this war. And prior to Pearl Harbor the US sold stuff to Germany as well, and used the war in Europe as a measure of making profit. It was only after PH that US took the war as a threat and started engaging, else they would have counted their money while watching Europe kill each other.

So I wouldn't say they really helped all that much. Also help shouldn't cost billions of dollars, similar to the situation in Ukraine now. They will have to pay incredulous amounts of money when all this is over. Other countries lost millions of people, and US did not, and made shitloads of money, so it's not as benevolent as it sounds. You can see it with Russia best. US did sent supplies, but Russia lost 26 million people. US lost basically nobody. Russia great depression after the war, US swimming in money. Hm.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

@December Flower

The US's gross national product was raised by 50 billion $ during WW2. As is the US the only country that profitted from this war. And prior to Pearl Harbor the US sold stuff to Germany as well, and used the war in Europe as a measure of making profit.

Most of this was distributed to other countries by the Lend Lease act at no cost to that country. This was prompted by the fact that Britain could no longer afford to pay for supplies. In the beginning this was offered just to Britain, but was soon expanded to many other countries including the UK France USSR and others. This debt was "forgiven" after the conclusion of WWII so that all could rebuild.

Whether this helped or not is up for discussion, however I believe that framing it so that it appears that the US was using WWII to in rich itself is not factual. We did it because if we didn't give it all away we would have been eventually invaded. You do remember that part of the war? Germany and Japan were expanding territiry by military invasions. US, Canada and South America were clearly in the plan after Europe and Indonesia.

 

[RoaminW]

I mean I don't disagree, yet cannot see this as "being part of the war", as so many Americans claim. The US's gross national product was raised by 50 billion $ during WW2. As is the US the only country that profitted from this war. And prior to Pearl Harbor the US sold stuff to Germany as well, and used the war in Europe as a measure of making profit. It was only after PH that US took the war as a threat and started engaging, else they would have counted their money while watching Europe kill each other.

So I wouldn't say they really helped all that much. Also help shouldn't cost billions of dollars, similar to the situation in Ukraine now. They will have to pay incredulous amounts of money when all this is over. Other countries lost millions of people, and US did not, and made shitloads of money, so it's not as benevolent as it sounds. You can see it with Russia best. US did sent supplies, but Russia lost 26 million people. US lost basically nobody. Russia great depression after the war, US swimming in money. Hm.

I understand that logic and can even agree on it, but wars are ALWAYS a boom for for-profit companies that get open ended contracts from their govt.

I’m curious…what do you think would have happened in Europe had the US remained strict isolationists in the European theatre?

From what I understand, the US Congress declared war on Japan after Pearl Harbor, and then Hitler declared war on the US the next day.

I do know that once war was declared against Japan, and then Hitler declared war on the US, the US decided that the priority theatre was the European one. Much more effort went to Europe than towards Japan. May have even been a racist thing as it would mean more white folks would be saved that way as opposed to trying to prevent, say, Filipino brown people getting killed, but for whatever reason, the Pacific theatre took second chances place to the European theatre.