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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Why do Americans say shit about ww2 like "you'd be speaking German if it wasn't for us"?

No - in a cynical and self-serving move, you realized Russia would take ALL of Europe and that the US knee-jerk reaction to Communism meant you HAD to place troops on the ground.

I'm not unaware that their was a HUGE isolationist policy.... right up until Pearl Harbour. So you helped yourself.
 
what was done to Germany by these two nations is just as morally devoid of emotion and regard for human life as were the crimes of nazi Germany

This is certainly true. We call it being 'morally bankrupt'. The only caveat would have been if the RAF had achieved a couple more Hamburgs in 1943. That would have caused Germany to surrender (according to Speer).
 
No - in a cynical and self-serving move, you realized Russia would take ALL of Europe and that the US knee-jerk reaction to Communism meant you HAD to place troops on the ground.

I'm not unaware that their was a HUGE isolationist policy.... right up until Pearl Harbour. So you helped yourself.
Right , we didn’t help out with supplies to the Soviet union and Great Britain…had we not…who the fuck knows
 
Right , we didn’t help out with supplies to the Soviet union and Great Britain…had we not…who the fuck knows

We went through this - Russia controlling the whole of Europe and world communism spreading to about 85% of the inhabitants. The US WOULD have been isolated.
 
This is certainly true. We call it being 'morally bankrupt'. The only caveat would have been if the RAF had achieved a couple more Hamburgs in 1943. That would have caused Germany to surrender (according to Speer).

I've read various people state that if 2-4 more cities had been flattened, morale would have collapsed. After all, area bombing can ONLY hope to destroy morale. I think I read Speers son who said it. Also the delay in jet fighters - a senior flyer noted that 3 or 4 cities might have been saved if the jets had arrived in 43, not 44.
 


I watched it - it makes it clear that the VAST majority was spent on US inventory - not giving said inventory to other nations.

You DIDN'T watch it - or you clearly wouldn't have attempted to use it as some means of proving your point.

Either way - USA vs Russia was the REAL war. But kind of hard to fight if everywhere west of DC is in communist hands.

MOST of all went on the Pacific campaign.
 
Money is a big factor in war obviously, and we spent the most, it dosent say how much went to SU and GB but it was a good amount..,would Germany have won if the US didn’t enter, probably not but the war would have dragged on for much longer and you can’t really say for sure how it would have played out
 
Money is a big factor in war obviously, and we spent the most, it dosent say how much went to SU and GB but it was a good amount..,would Germany have won if the US didn’t enter, probably not but the war would have dragged on for much longer and you can’t really say for sure how it would have played out

We can - Russia would have taken ALL of Europe. That is what Stalin WANTED. They had the means and the will.

So the USA would have looked mighty lonely as world Communism spread from the Atlantic to the Pacific. Formenting wars in Central and South America could have been countered and like Cuba, socialist regimes put in place.

The 1 thing the US had was the bomb.... but no way to deliver over the Atlantic (or Arctic) but that would have been the ONLY option.
 
We can - Russia would have taken ALL of Europe. That is what Stalin WANTED. They had the means and the will.

So the USA would have looked mighty lonely as world Communism spread from the Atlantic to the Pacific. Formenting wars in Central and South America could have been countered and like Cuba, socialist regimes put in place.

The 1 thing the US had was the bomb.... but no way to deliver over the Atlantic (or Arctic) but that would have been the ONLY option.
Actually... No you can't. US had troops on the ground well before Normandy. I'm not even sure Russia would have beat Germany and you can put however many rolling laugh faces you want but it completely changed the entire dynamic of the war. We had been supplying the UK and even Russia(11.3 billion(180billion in today's money)to Russia alone) the entire war before Pearl Harbor anyways but I love these revisionists histories. Very entertaining.
 
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Huh? That was during the war. The bombing of our coties was when our entire army was already defeated by Russia. You wanted some of the spoils, and you got them.

The bombings here were fucking brutal and inhumane.


And again how does your opponent's strategy make yours more moral? Would ot have been OK to put all Germans in gas chambers after the war? No? Then your point is a non sequitur
When you're attacked and your sovereignty is threatened anything goes. Just like with how the Ukraine should react and feel with Russia invading. You come into my house and try to kill me and mine and I'll cut off your balls, feed one to my dog and mail the other one to your family with a "You're next" note attached.
 
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Huh? That was during the war. The bombing of our coties was when our entire army was already defeated by Russia. You wanted some of the spoils, and you got them.

The bombings here were fucking brutal and inhumane.


And again how does your opponent's strategy make yours more moral? Would ot have been OK to put all Germans in gas chambers after the war? No? Then your point is a non sequitur
Entire army defeated? Like the entire Western front, which includes almost all the occupied lands Germany had gained during WW2, plus taking out your 2 main allies, Italy and Japan and supplying Russia and UK throughout the war. Ok.... Yeah, Russia did everything🙄
 
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I never said the US did not supply Russia or the UK - I commented that from the informative video someone supplied, the VAST majority of the spend was on US forces with the Pacific being the MOST costly & US forces in Europe being the second most costly - combined, a VAST majority on the USs own forces.

Considering that the Normandy Landings began on June 6th 1944 & Russian forces had first invaded Germany on June 22nd 1944 (with 1.6 million troops - over 3 times the German forces and in fact more forces than Germany had in TOTAL), exactly how do you doubt their ability to win. Because it doesn't fit your egotistical view?

Don't forget - Stalin had more or less given up on an invasion from the west. His entire staff expected the west to allow Russia to do all the fighting.

North Africa was an important campaign for exposing the southern flank. No US forces were involved. Sicily and Italy itself were simply fought to open a new theatre of campaign - and anyway half way through the Italians changed sides in 1943. So it was German troops doing the fighting. But ut was a sideshow.

So it might have been QUITE possible to leave Russia to it. After all, it's the largest nation on earth and does have a huge number of natural resources and as I mentioned, were not slow to take over ANY resources they overran. Not needing to feed or otherwise care for POWs (and their injured soldiers) did make logistics a lot more simple. Little has changed as we see in Ukraine. A person is simply seen like a rifle or a duck board or a piece of rope. It's used until destroyed and then it's replaced. That's why such heavy losses didn't concern their leaders.

But Russia already runs from the pacific to the Baltic so extending it would not seem as daunting to them as it would to most nations.

It's hardly a secret that even before 1945, top US military staff saw Russia as the REAL enemy. The enemy that could not be beaten with simple force of arms. Many argued that while the US had the bomb, it should use it. Not a secret:


Even when Russia developed nukes, they had no delivery system so by 1952 the US could have sent 'dry' thermonuclear weapons via B47 or B52, We are concerned of fallout but don't forget, Russia carried out 110 above ground tests in the area termed 'the polygon' and 214 at Novaya Zemlya including the 50Mt Tsar bomb.

I'm not defending that action... but I honestly wonder what Stalin would have done if presented with a 'superweapon' no other nation had. They scrambled for chemical weapons and biological weapons (resulting in the Sverdlovsk anthrax leak.)
 
You would think so - but in WW2 they regularly sent unarmed men to take down a barecade (or whatever). All terribly sad.

But I note support in Russia has droped from 90% through 80% and down to 66%. Ukraine's only hope is:

1)Cause huge death toll this winter (Remember how Russia lost 1.5 million winter uniforms) and their is footage clearly of hypothermia in Russian troops making them cannon fodder.

2)Ensure EVERY Russian loses a family member or a friend (considering 45 million are technically of the age to be conscripted), this would require 2.6 million casualties.

I think that is why Russian generals have pulled back. If they really lack winter uniforms, we could potentially see hundreds of thousands freeze and hundreds of thousands unable to fight effectively making them cannon fodder.
 
Yeah - all based on railways.

I can see Ukraine being destroyed but damaging Russia so much that it becomes only a minor power. I mean, it has NO semiconductor fabrication and announced an investment of $28 billion for 28nm lithography. 28nm is actually a good option, but it's going to be 20+ years behind others. 28nm fab is so old many people are selling fab second-hand.

China will be the ONLY supplier.... so expect China to demand vast amounts of hydrocarbons.
 
Entire army defeated? Like the entire Western front, which includes almost all the occupied lands Germany had gained during WW2, plus taking out your 2 main allies, Italy and Japan and supplying Russia and UK throughout the war. Ok.... Yeah, Russia did everything🙄
Russia defeated us. US defeated Italy and Japan. O and helped free France. West Front was mostly youths and kids so.. Good job there. As I said our main hosts died in Russia, France was scarcely manned

Im saying that USA claims it beat Germany which just isn't true. And they kinda take the glory away from Russia, when Russia lost far over 10 million men in 6 years of war and US joined at the very end and was completely isolated before PH. Even had good relations w Nazi Germany, but came when they smelled the spoils.
 
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