Benzos Can't sleep and need a recommendation for a strong sleeping medication

[VerbalTruist]

Soma knocked me out at 700mg, initially. You working with a benzo tolerance?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Midazolam (Dormicum/Versed). If that doesn't do the trick than benzo options are exhausted.

Maybe pregabalin (brand name Lyrica)?

1st and 2nd gen antipsychotics will knock you out but except 25-50mg of Seroquel I would not go near them...

Important: I am not advising OP to use medications. He has a doctor and doctor is prescriber. Also, people (lurkers or registered members) with low tolerance should ignore this thread cause some pretty dangerous combos are being discussed.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Melatonin powder. 1g... loads, and loads, of doses. Tryptamine, neuro-receptor, regulates sleep. That's the ticket.

One gram of melatonin, wow that's a heroic dose for sure when it's no typo. Read some lucky ones get effects from as little as 4mg. Tried up to 16mg which is a multiple of the recommendation and it did exactly nothing for me. Unfortunately I can't acquire melatonin Iin powder here, restrictive import laws. Wonder if I should try eating a whole box of 30x 4mg given that its cheap.

GABA hypnotics never did anything for me either, zopiclone, lunesta, etc etc.

Same here for antihistamines. I can eat three 30mg mirtazapine without any noticeable effect. Granted, as a teen these did work but had me quite zombied out the next day, it wasn't that pleasurable unless I was in a boring psych ward with the need to kill time. Also mirtazapine is one hell of an appetite stimulant, many people grew fat because of it. Don't even get that effect anymore. And imo it's a lie that antihistamines weren't addictive. Nowhere as bad as GABAergics but after taking mirtazapine for a while you have two outcomings: that it stopps working, or that you can't sleep without it. Same for others like quetiapine which additionally acts as an anti adrenergic in low doses.

Pregabalin, while effective for keeping withdrawals at bay and can be relaxing, doesn't usually put you asleep. I know of somebody who got this effect but it's rare afaik. Higher doses can even be stimulating.

I stay with my recommendation of zopiclone for short term insomnia. Take two if necessary but at some point it will knock you out and it's better suited for this task than benzos.

 

[Tranced]

One gram of melatonin, wow that's a heroic dose for sure when it's no typo. Read some lucky ones get effects from as little as 4mg. Tried up to 16mg which is a multiple of the recommendation and it did exactly nothing for me. Unfortunately I can't acquire melatonin Iin powder here, restrictive import laws. Wonder if I should try eating a whole box of 30x 4mg given that its cheap.


Same here for antihistamines. I can eat three 30mg mirtazapine without any noticeable effect. Granted, as a teen these did work but had me quite zombied out the next day, it wasn't that pleasurable unless I was in a boring psych ward with the need to kill time. Also mirtazapine is one hell of an appetite stimulant, many people grew fat because of it. Don't even get that effect anymore. And imo it's a lie that antihistamines weren't addictive. Nowhere as bad as GABAergics but after taking mirtazapine for a while you have two outcomings: that it stopps working, or that you can't sleep without it. Same for others like quetiapine which additionally acts as an anti adrenergic in low doses.

Pregabalin, while effective for keeping withdrawals at bay and can be relaxing, doesn't usually put you asleep. I know of somebody who got this effect but it's rare afaik. Higher doses can even be stimulating.

I stay with my recommendation of zopiclone for short term insomnia. Take two if necessary but at some point it will knock you out and it's better suited for this task than benzos.

I didn't take the gram! It lasted ages. I weighed 2mg or so at first, then I'd take a tiny bit off of the tweezers I got with my scales, hold it under my tongue.

It was a tenner, 1000~ doses.

 

[plumbus-nine]

I didn't take the gram! It lasted ages. I weighed 2mg or so at first, then I'd take a tiny bit off of the tweezers I got with my scales, hold it under my tongue.

It was a tenner, 1000~ doses.

Ah, thanks for the clarification!

Do you just get tired or experience psychoactive effects beyond that? Some crazy reports on Erowid made me curious but as said I seem to be a non-responder to melatonine. Wonder whether this might have to do with my history of years on venlafaxine, which will have flooded the brain with serotonin, causing serious receptor downregulation and as melatonin is closely related to serotonin, possibly there's interaction?

At the moment I don't have too many difficulties falling asleep for which I'm grateful but I have a history of insomnia and experience recurring,. intrusive thought loops when lying in bed without being able to sleep for which occasions I'd like to have something available.

 

[Tranced]

Ah, thanks for the clarification!

Do you just get tired or experience psychoactive effects beyond that? Some crazy reports on Erowid made me curious but as said I seem to be a non-responder to melatonine. Wonder whether this might have to do with my history of years on venlafaxine, which will have flooded the brain with serotonin, causing serious receptor downregulation and as melatonin is closely related to serotonin, possibly there's interaction?

At the moment I don't have too many difficulties falling asleep for which I'm grateful but I have a history of insomnia and experience recurring,. intrusive thought loops when lying in bed without being able to sleep for which occasions I'd like to have something available.

Zero psychoactive effects. I was hoping for at least a hint of tryptamine but I couldn't catch any flavour.

Intersting thing is a rebound at 4~ hours point, and you sometimes (especially early on) need to redose again.

Are you sure you just didn't get shit melatonin? Possibility.

 

[RUC4]

Have you tried good, old fashion Benadryl? Or promethizine?

 

[cdin]

tbf at this point I think you have to start looking at your benzo use. you are on 6mg of a short acting, rebound heavy gaba agent every day.
No matter how I spaced that, my sleep schedule would be incredibly fucked. If it were me, 1, i would want off the benzos becauce 6mg xanax
a day would make me an alzheimersesque patient by my 60s, and to achieve that i would switch to one dose of a long acting benzo (diazepam or equivalent)
at night, to ensure as much good sleep as possible while i titrated.

if you don't care about your memory/mental functioning long term, i would still at least get switched to equivalent in long acting benzo so I could eat the whole
dose at night and get a nights sleep.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Are you sure you just didn't get shit melatonin? Possibility.

Straight from the pharmacy so I think it must be legit. Cheap enough for that fakes weren't worth it.

Yeah, some reports sound like sort of a tryptamine effects from higher (15+mg) doses of melatonin. Wonder how far one could push the dose without risking whatever bad side effects it could induce. Even from the serotonin of SNRI venlafaxine I got slight visuals (trailers, hints of movement in structures) and euohoria/hypomania during the first weeks.

 

[Tranced]

Straight from the pharmacy so I think it must be legit. Cheap enough for that fakes weren't worth it.

Yeah, some reports sound like sort of a tryptamine effects from higher (15+mg) doses of melatonin. Wonder how far one could push the dose without risking whatever bad side effects it could induce. Even from the serotonin of SNRI venlafaxine I got slight visuals (trailers, hints of movement in structures) and euohoria/hypomania during the first weeks.

I'm surprised I didn't try a high dose now tbh, I had at least 15mg though.

 

[ĐmantuNJofra]

Mirtazapine is strongest I have ever done in practical sense. It is not fastest out there but seems to be absorbed pretty fast. I've taken down panic attack in 15 minutes by 30 mg orally.

Yeah and while I was also taking 30 then upon frustration more and more I became more restless, then my psych told me to try 15mg or even 7,5 mg and I red that less can be more in many cases which is half of the only 15mg generic where I'm at, and I tried also every benzo-not RC, nitrazepam, flurazepam, and only midazolam worked great recreational, 15 was good dose i remember but yeah first I Kramer-ed my fridge gained 25kg then sleep with vivid dreams in my case nightmares but again that was the only time I slept 8 hrs.
Good camommille tea and I always got some homemade, combined with mint
So as I remember it was
Mirtazapine 15mg
xanax xr 2mg, or nitrazepam 10-20mg
tea

 

[kongoman]

@FrankiesCloud are you sleeping ok?
Send us your medication. Then we'll see what we can do. I read that you take 6mg xanax and morphine 30mg or Opana10mg, so you can add quetiapine 100 or 200mg
and pregabalin 150mg or 300mg
Also you can change xanax to another benzo like midazolam, flunitrazepam, lorazepam.
We want to know if you are sleeping allright.
Send you lots of love.

 

[FrankiesCloud]

@FrankiesCloud are you sleeping ok?
Send us your medication. Then we'll see what we can do. I read that you take 6mg xanax and morphine 30mg or Opana10mg, so you can add quetiapine 100 or 200mg
and pregabalin 150mg or 300mg
Also you can change xanax to another benzo like midazolam, flunitrazepam, lorazepam.
We want to know if you are sleeping allright.
Send you lots of love.

Thanks for checking in appreciate it!
Did stay up 2 ½ days from Thursday to Saturday but did get some sleep part of Saturday and some of Sunday night for around 2 to 4 ½ of hours. I had some leftover muscle relaxers (Robaxin <Methocarbamol> 750mg) I took around 3 and half of those and 3mgs of Xanax 8mg of Hydromorphone and that knocked me out. Unfortunately the prescription was left over one I got from the ER so I have to go get another one for my doctor I'll be meeting with my new pain management specialist on the 27th wish me luck I'll definitely leave an update.
But my usual regimen daily is:
225mg of nasal spray ketamine 2 sprays ever 3 to 4 hours a day, dilaudid 8mg IR 3x a day, opana 10mg 2 to 3 x day as-needed, Lyrica 150 2x a day, adderall 30mg IR ½ tabelt 4x a day, Xanax 2mg 3x a day as-needed, 100mg of trazodone 1-2 tablets as-needed before bedtime, Movantic 25mg 1x day, 1mcg Naltrexone 1x day, Oxytocin 25 idu 3 times a day as-needed (on and of that one) hydroxyzinepam 25mg 3x a day as-needed, ventolin as-needed, Symbicort once a day, also get Lexapro 30 mg once a day and Latuda 60 mg once a day. (but I don't usually take those as I feel the ketamine handles most of my depression severe complex PTSD aswell as assists with pain better on somedays) I still have to wait for my doctor to send out a referral to a sleep specialist so I can get specific medication for sleep cuz my psychiatrist isn't really willing to help with sleep. Hopefully it will get better with time and trying different meds but we'll see. I got a lot of great advice and recommendation and medications and different ones to try as well as some much-needed support so thanks everyone for that! It's been a long year for me my father succumb to a rare form of Wernicke's encephalopathy (5 days ago will be the year anniversary of me finding him in his room near death) Since then it's kind of been a nightmare I already suffer from abundance of different conditions myself fibromyalgia DDD in L4 & L5 stage 2, narrowing discs C1 to C4, just to name a few and now I have to assist a lot more bs than usual to help manage his care since he now has permanent brain damage and the stress and strain on my body more than I already have is kind of catching up with me and making me not sleep.

 

[kongoman]

WoooW!! That is a nice shoot of meds! You have all you need!
Where are you from? América?
I guess because of the painkillers you take.You know that you Will be hook at t'has medication? Specially the opiates you take.
I'm gelous!! I'm a painkiller lover and here in my country it's not easy to get them. I think that hidromorphone, dilaudid, and Opana not avalaible nor in the hospitals. We have morphine,fentanyl and methadone I think.
You have to feel Lucky with those meds.
Im happy if you're slleping a little and yes, I wish lucky for the meeting of 27th.
Update after this what have you had from this meeting with your pain management doctor.
Im so sorry for your father. Live is hard wih us sometimes. I'm in a severe depression too. But now Im working since september and things seem to go much better. Have been 5 horrible years stacked at my sofa.
Well I know youll be strong enough to manage your new condition and this nightmare what you talk about Will be every day less Hard to manage. YOU have our support. I think of you @FrankiesCloud so
I hope things Will be better at least with your sleeping habit and your pain management.
Update whatever makes you stress or your sleeping routine or whatever you want that is importan about you. Feel free to do It or not.
Send you a big hug and lots of love!!
Send me opana or dilaudid! HahHahah
ahh I forgot to answer you what about of this hydroxyxinepam? It rocks? It have to be a brand New generation benzodiazepine. I GOOGLE It and it appears hydroxyzine, its the same?
Well tell me something about you if you want and you feel it...bye bye girl

 

[Hannah Capps]

Lunesta is a crap drug…awful side effects and I actually had trouble speaking after taking it for 4 years…stopped working after a while

 

[FrankiesCloud]

WoooW!! That is a nice shoot of meds! You have all you need!
Where are you from? América?
I guess because of the painkillers you take.You know that you Will be hook at t'has medication? Specially the opiates you take.
I'm gelous!! I'm a painkiller lover and here in my country it's not easy to get them. I think that hidromorphone, dilaudid, and Opana not avalaible nor in the hospitals. We have morphine,fentanyl and methadone I think.
You have to feel Lucky with those meds.
Im happy if you're slleping a little and yes, I wish lucky for the meeting of 27th.
Update after this what have you had from this meeting with your pain management doctor.
Im so sorry for your father. Live is hard wih us sometimes. I'm in a severe depression too. But now Im working since september and things seem to go much better. Have been 5 horrible years stacked at my sofa.
Well I know youll be strong enough to manage your new condition and this nightmare what you talk about Will be every day less Hard to manage. YOU have our support. I think of you @FrankiesCloud so
I hope things Will be better at least with your sleeping habit and your pain management.
Update whatever makes you stress or your sleeping routine or whatever you want that is importan about you. Feel free to do It or not.
Send you a big hug and lots of love!!
Send me opana or dilaudid! HahHahah
ahh I forgot to answer you what about of this hydroxyxinepam? It rocks? It have to be a brand New generation benzodiazepine. I GOOGLE It and it appears hydroxyzine, its the same?
Well tell me something about you if you want and you feel it...bye bye girl

Thank you I appreciate the support I dont have much support at home and much close family. Yeah I'm from the states unfortunately it actually has become a struggle to get pain medication over here we have them readily available at pharmacies but a lot of people are either faking injuries paying off doctors or stealing blank prescription pads and going to the pharmacy and filling the prescription and with all the fentanyl that comes over the border doctors are very cautious on who gets prescribed to painkillers we actually have a thing called MME (Morphine Millagram Equivalency) and each state has different guidelines on how much pain medication they are even allowed to prescribe you unless you are dying or have certain conditions that cannot be fixed. For example I live in California over here the amount a doctor can prescribe a chronic pain patient is 90 mg of morphine equivalency and a majority of the doctors will not go over that even if you pay out of pocket but there is a justification they can write on your medical record so you can go over that limit and so you're not getting flagged at pharmacies as the DOJ does keep track of every scheduled medication you get prescribed. Which my new primary care physician has agreed to write but I have to get the pain management doctor to agree as well because they will be managing it full time. It's essential a BS move to slow down people getting over prescribed pain medication but it actually does more harm than good reason why people are either turning the street drugs like Fentanyl or find them illicitly which makes it even harder on patients that need it. just to get by even if they just need an extra pill a day or two in my case I was actually prescribed more medication before they made the law then they immediately took my dose down now they're trying to put me back up but I have to have this new doctor agree to this since my condition has deteriorated very significantly and I am partially paralyzed leg multiple spinal injuries and different conditions with a 11-year track record on being on opioid pain medication consistently as well as with 4 letters of recommendation from 3 differnt doctors and one specialty pharmacist saying I'm a good patient and I should continue the course of my pain medication. You would think I wouldn't have a problem with all that but I still do I'm also a ketamine patient it does cost a little extra not only for the medication but to get prescribed it but completely worth it for $165 they get around 6,750 mg of nasal spray ketamine every 25 days (the compound pharmacy I go to has amazing rates!) It's actually easier to get that amount of ketamine prescribed to me then it is my pain medication am even allowed mutilated refills on that but not my pain meds I am grateful to be able to get prescribed the quantity I do but at the same time a 5mg or 10mg hydrocodone pill would do nothing for me at this point which sucks because we'll never feel the same as it did in the beginning but I don't really care I just care if I can function. And I don't know if they have any psychedelic medical studies or if it that is available where you're at but if you're struggling with any sort of depression I would highly recommend it. I occasionally go to my ketamine doctor for a 100mg intramuscular injection it's cheaper than the IV infusions as some ketamine clinics only cost me $150 for an intramuscular injection. The main reason I am getting the majority of this medication and I can even afford it is that my mom works for one of the biggest insurance companies in my state and I have good coverage on medications not so much on doctors but on medications for example my Opana I get usually around 55 every 27 days and my insurance company has agreed to approve it till year of 9999 main reason why I'm so fortunate is I know how to navigate an insurance company and also they treat family members of employees at insurance companies different than average people unfortunately.

 

[kongoman]

Thank you I appreciate the support I dont have much support at home and much close family. Yeah I'm from the states unfortunately it actually has become a struggle to get pain medication over here we have them readily available at pharmacies but a lot of people are either faking injuries paying off doctors or stealing blank prescription pads and going to the pharmacy and filling the prescription and with all the fentanyl that comes over the border doctors are very cautious on who gets prescribed to painkillers we actually have a thing called MME (Morphine Millagram Equivalency) and each state has different guidelines on how much pain medication they are even allowed to prescribe you unless you are dying or have certain conditions that cannot be fixed. For example I live in California over here the amount a doctor can prescribe a chronic pain patient is 90 mg of morphine equivalency and a majority of the doctors will not go over that even if you pay out of pocket but there is a justification they can write on your medical record so you can go over that limit and so you're not getting flagged at pharmacies as the DOJ does keep track of every scheduled medication you get prescribed. Which my new primary care physician has agreed to write but I have to get the pain management doctor to agree as well because they will be managing it full time. It's essential a BS move to slow down people getting over prescribed pain medication but it actually does more harm than good reason why people are either turning the street drugs like Fentanyl or find them illicitly which makes it even harder on patients that need it. just to get by even if they just need an extra pill a day or two in my case I was actually prescribed more medication before they made the law then they immediately took my dose down now they're trying to put me back up but I have to have this new doctor agree to this since my condition has deteriorated very significantly and I am partially paralyzed leg multiple spinal injuries and different conditions with a 11-year track record on being on opioid pain medication consistently as well as with 4 letters of recommendation from 3 differnt doctors and one specialty pharmacist saying I'm a good patient and I should continue the course of my pain medication. You would think I wouldn't have a problem with all that but I still do I'm also a ketamine patient it does cost a little extra not only for the medication but to get prescribed it but completely worth it for $165 they get around 6,750 mg of nasal spray ketamine every 25 days (the compound pharmacy I go to has amazing rates!) It's actually easier to get that amount of ketamine prescribed to me then it is my pain medication am even allowed mutilated refills on that but not my pain meds I am grateful to be able to get prescribed the quantity I do but at the same time a 5mg or 10mg hydrocodone pill would do nothing for me at this point which sucks because we'll never feel the same as it did in the beginning but I don't really care I just care if I can function. And I don't know if they have any psychedelic medical studies or if it that is available where you're at but if you're struggling with any sort of depression I would highly recommend it. I occasionally go to my ketamine doctor for a 100mg intramuscular injection it's cheaper than the IV infusions as some ketamine clinics only cost me $150 for an intramuscular injection. The main reason I am getting the majority of this medication and I can even afford it is that my mom works for one of the biggest insurance companies in my state and I have good coverage on medications not so much on doctors but on medications for example my Opana I get usually around 55 every 27 days and my insurance company has agreed to approve it till year of 9999 main reason why I'm so fortunate is I know how to navigate an insurance company and also they treat family members of employees at insurance companies different than average people unfortunately.

Nowadays family is not the same as before...
on every family there are things going wrong,
Argue with your brother,drugs, alcohol, rivals betwen brothers and sisters, real fights in the family,your Uncle dont talk to your father neither with your mother, infinite problems in family that bother me or make feel blues when I think about...If I tell you about my family you Gonna say Its not possible, but yes it is. It sucks but you accept the reality and live with it. I have cousins that I dont know...I could make a film! A terror one!hahaha
Now I laugh but I should cry. One day I'll explain you...
I think you have the same situation, we have to be like iron, stronger If its possible. Our lives are so complicated and we have to fight against so much things, but we have to be happy or the best, society is like I say, perhaps Im wrong but I dont think so.
@FrankiesCloud you have another pain med
And It's me.hahaahaa you can write me whenever you want and when I can I'll reply you cause we need and hahaha
Live is hard, Im working in a big bus company
Since september and I am very happy with my work and today at night, cause now Im working at nigth,Ive received a very strong hit,(I dont know if it has sense but Im tirado to go to transl1ator)well yesterday I missed one very Important thing and because of that the company had to cancel one bus service, It was my fault,ok but they have decided That I cant touch one computer software wich is the most important thing that I was learning.And I dont know who has decided that. I asked who but tonight I wont know it.
Its have been Hard for me. I cried, cause I think this method is too heavy for me. Everybody Will know it, I guess.
I got out of topic, hahaha.Im a good Man dont get me out, I know the rules but Im a wild man too.
Well Frankiescloud I hope you Will get your pain meds, cause you merit them, cause your pain is real, and you really need them.
I know youll be worthy and youll get your opiates that I love so much that I cant love anybody, that have been a thought that It came to me right now, I dont know if It's true...
I have a long story with opiates....one day you will know it, but now its too much for me.
Today Im blues, I'll cry more times cause I need it possible...I Will support you, ok?
Cause I want and It's enough.
My name is Jordi, write when you need, I'll be there, Yes I repeated but It have to be clear for you Frankiescloud.
Well I have to do some work
Send you love
I'll be waiting for your reply gyal
Kisses from Spain!!!

 

[Painful One]

Doxylamine

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Quetiapine knocks me the fuck out.

^yuhhs.

Btw, OP...Quetiapine (Seroquel) is LESS sedating the MORE you take. For sleep it's usually 25-100mg....more than 200 is likely to not help at all.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Non-Benzo's I have tried:

Zopiclone - 8/10
Thorazine - 4/10
Quetiapine - 7/10
Trazodone - 7/10
Any of the sedating anti-histamines - 3/10 [they work for a lot of people but they're way too subtle for me]
Zolpidem - 5/10 (works very well to INDUCE sleep but I wake up like 4-5 hours later so the duration lowers the score)
Olanzapine - 7/10
Codeine - 0/10 (not only did it not help me sleep, I went into borderline-anaphylaxis and spent two days in hospital)
Soma - -7/10 (had an odd reaction of SHEER RAGE)
Phenobarbital - 8/10 (pure bliss)