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Venting Incels

AbbeyLee

AbbeyLee

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 24, 2019
Messages
7,667
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Melbourne, Australia
Firstly, do they realise "involuntary celibacy" is an oxymoron? Celibacy is deliberate. I haven't had sex in a while and certainly don't think of myself as celibate.


Celibacy (from Latin caelibatus) is the state of voluntarily being unmarried, sexually abstinent,or both, usually for religious reasons. It is often in association with the role of a religious official or devotee. In its narrow sense, the term celibacy is applied only to those for whom the unmarried state is the result of a sacred vow, act of renunciation, or religious conviction. In a wider sense, it is commonly understood to only mean abstinence from sexual activity.

Celibacy has existed in one form or another throughout history, in virtually all the major religions of the world, and views on it have varied.


Definition of abstinence​

1: the practice of abstaining from something : the practice of not doing or having something that is wanted or enjoyable… ate with a haste and an apparent relish, that seemed to betoken long abstinence from food.— Walter Scott
2a: habitual abstaining from intoxicating beverages
b: abstention from sexual intercourse



Secondly, these guys are swarming online atm. I went looking for "incel memes" and found a total of about three that made fun of incels. The rest were aimed at the women who reject them.

The big theory they have is we whinge about men being assholes but when we meet *nice guys* we reject them. I've had this exact sentiment put on me after dumping a guy.

He sent me a text one day saying "maybe I should've been like J and treated you like shit, then you would've stuck around." This was so completely removed from reality, and he wasn't nice at all. My brother had died in February of that year, I was drinking, he was coming over every night to cook dinner, etc. I broke up with him in July and he "stalked" me until the following Feburary (when I threatened him). Is that a *nice* thing to do to someone whose brother suddenly died months before??


Anyway, I was just watching this and thought I'd post about it.


 
It's "involuntary celibacy" because they definitely WANT sex, but can't get it, usually because of their shitty personality.

Incels have a victim complex, they see themselves as the actual victims of women and society as a whole because they can't get laid. This victim complex is what turns into violence, misogyny, and general shitty behavior. Their behavior gets even worse over time the longer it goes on.


www.psypost.org

Unwanted celibacy is linked to hostility towards women, sexual objectification of women, and endorsing rape myths

There’s a common refrain of “nice guys finish last” from men who have trouble attracting women, but is being nice the real problem? A study published in Personality and Individual Differences suggests that involuntarily celibate men show higher levels of misogyny and hostility toward women.
www.psypost.org
 
Snafu in the Void said:
It's "involuntary celibacy" because they definitely WANT sex, but can't get it, usually because of their shitty personality.

Incels have a victim complex, they see themselves as the actual victims of women and society as a whole because they can't get laid. This victim complex is what turns into violence, misogyny, and general shitty behavior. Their behavior gets even worse over time the longer it goes on.


www.psypost.org

Unwanted celibacy is linked to hostility towards women, sexual objectification of women, and endorsing rape myths

There’s a common refrain of “nice guys finish last” from men who have trouble attracting women, but is being nice the real problem? A study published in Personality and Individual Differences suggests that involuntarily celibate men show higher levels of misogyny and hostility toward women.
www.psypost.org
Click to expand...

It's about bigger factors than personality. Automation of labor undermines the value of average men. Monogamy is a fragile construct now being threatened. Women have evolved for hypergamy and the conditions for monogamy as an acceptable deal to women as a group are vanishing.

Incels are a natural thing. Men historically in many cases haven't been reproductively successful. We know from genetic analysis that we have more female than male ancestors. Women have an innate reproductive value while men are highly asymmetric in value depending on performance. Many women have been deeply unsatisfied with their hubbies throughout monogamy. They actually rather share a good man than have a boring one for themselves.

We're just not used to it, hence the hysteria on all fronts.
 
Last edited:
Mjäll said:
It's about bigger factors than personality. Automation of labor undermines the value of average men. Monogamy is a fragile construct now being threatened. Women have evolved for hypergamy and the conditions for monogamy as an acceptable deal to women as a group are vanishing.

Incels are a natural thing. Men historically in many cases haven't been reproductively successful. We know from genetic analysis that we have more female than male ancestors.

We're just not used to it, hence the hysteria on all fronts.
Click to expand...
I agree it's more than just personality that's at play here, but that's a big factor into what boils down to the ultimate problem. Anyone could get laid if they just lower their standards or actually tried harder.

I also think this is a complex symptom of modern society masquerading as something simple. Incel is a relatively new phenomenon. I think social media is a lot to blame.

Plenty of men throughout history have gone without sex or relationships, men have historically treated women like shit, but they didnt shoot up schools with guns. Honestly I never even knew of the concept of incel until 10 years ago or so.

I don't think we can say this phenomenon goes back into history. In some form it probably does, but not this modern conceptualization.
 
I think one of the problems is that overall people are having much less sex in general these days compared to a few decades ago, particularly younger people and young men, as well as less marriages. Something like 25% of men aged 18-29 have not had sex for long periods of time, if ever. That's like a 3x increase over the last 30 years alone.

There are a lot of societal factors going on here. Technology has led to much more social isolation, increased mental illness and less sex.
 
Snafu in the Void said:
I also think this is a symptom of modern society. Incel is a relatively new phenomenon. I think social media is a lot to blame.
Click to expand...

It definitely is. "Incel" I only heard a few months ago, which is why I'm fascinated. They're the same as MGTOWs (men going their own way) but those guys are divorcees or at least been in relationships, usually serious enough ones where they have kids. So they have more of an excuse. Incels have given up before they've begun!

Also, before the internet these guys couldn't gather together, whinge, make memes, etc. They just had to fend for themselves, which was probably good because eventually they'd find someone (and they'd develop some social skills and balls in the process).
 
That's true. Before the internet incels probably never met each other. Now there are online incel communities that turn into hateful echo chambers and radicalize them even more. That goes for a lot of things now, the internet radicalizes people.
 
Snafu in the Void said:
I agree it's more than just personality that's at play here, but that's a big factor into what boils down to the ultimate problem. Anyone could get laid if they just lower their standards or actually tried harder.

I also think this is a complex symptom of modern society masquerading as something simple. Incel is a relatively new phenomenon. I think social media is a lot to blame.

Plenty of men throughout history have gone without sex or relationships, men have historically treated women like shit, but they didnt shoot up schools with guns. Honestly I never even knew of the concept of incel until 10 years ago or so.

I don't think we can say this phenomenon goes back into history. In some form it probably does, but not this modern conceptualization.
Click to expand...

Yes, there may also be a decline in personality, but that is then in turn explained by larger historical factors such as welfare society removing incitament to develop mental strength. I think it's a mistake boiling the causality down to individual choice. It strengthens division and weakens understanding. We are not talking about individuals in the first place so it doesn't even make sense. Actually we can counteract this incel phenomenon by agreeing with what they're actually right about and not blaming so much. But if it progresses to violence, of course we must blame.

The phenomenon can be elucidated by history, while also being unique.
 
It's a phenomena that's best understood as emerging out of the acid trip funhouse mirror world of the Internet, IMO

The internet has brought community to a variety of disparate groups. That's a good thing in some ways...for example, it can help bring hobbyists or political dissidents together, etc. But it can also bring together neo Nazis, flat earthers, incels, gang stalker types, as others have mentioned...so I prefer to think of it as primarily an internet phenomenon, as that has really been crucial in giving it a visible presence and a recognizable mindset/belief system etc.
 
Mjäll said:
I think the term incel is clear enough even though it may be technically incorrect.

NWFM fits better with MGTOW, however.
Click to expand...

But that's the thing - it's not clear when shortened (which it always is) and it's a complete oxymoron.

I'll find the ringleaders of this and tell them I have no problem with their looks but they're like a conference of Village Idiots.
 
Should I report all the posts here that are rude and disrespectful and downright discriminatory?
I am personally highly offended by some of the language used in this thread.
Rather than facts or statistics, I don't see much here beyond baseless slander and attacks without understand. Twitter level drivel discourse.
 
AbbeyLee said:
Firstly, do they realise "involuntary celibacy" is an oxymoron? Celibacy is deliberate. I haven't had sex in a while and certainly don't think of myself as celibate.


Celibacy (from Latin caelibatus) is the state of voluntarily being unmarried, sexually abstinent,or both, usually for religious reasons. It is often in association with the role of a religious official or devotee. In its narrow sense, the term celibacy is applied only to those for whom the unmarried state is the result of a sacred vow, act of renunciation, or religious conviction. In a wider sense, it is commonly understood to only mean abstinence from sexual activity.

Celibacy has existed in one form or another throughout history, in virtually all the major religions of the world, and views on it have varied.


Definition of abstinence​

1: the practice of abstaining from something : the practice of not doing or having something that is wanted or enjoyable… ate with a haste and an apparent relish, that seemed to betoken long abstinence from food.— Walter Scott
2a: habitual abstaining from intoxicating beverages
b: abstention from sexual intercourse



Secondly, these guys are swarming online atm. I went looking for "incel memes" and found a total of about three that made fun of incels. The rest were aimed at the women who reject them.

The big theory they have is we whinge about men being assholes but when we meet *nice guys* we reject them. I've had this exact sentiment put on me after dumping a guy.

He sent me a text one day saying "maybe I should've been like J and treated you like shit, then you would've stuck around." This was so completely removed from reality, and he wasn't nice at all. My brother had died in February of that year, I was drinking, he was coming over every night to cook dinner, etc. I broke up with him in July and he "stalked" me until the following Feburary (when I threatened him). Is that a *nice* thing to do to someone whose brother suddenly died months before??


Anyway, I was just watching this and thought I'd post about it.


Click to expand...

The term celibacy sound&write on my language"целомъдрие".Translated on english may be it gives another point of view.Literally translated it means-"Wise goal".u know -kill the flesh to move the spirit higher"....ancient practise-Roman vestals,oracles,priestess....people from different religions is good to abstain from sex in fasting periods.....well hindus got tantrism,which may be is opposite-talkin& about some kind of divine sex-mixing the female&male energy through the act of copulation....same exist in some old chinese traditions...idk what to say.Sex can be some kind obsession even.Even some told about "sexual dependence"whatever thats mean.
 
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