Alcohol Where to start with quitting alcohol?

[drmichaelimperioli]

My roommate and I are pretty bad alcoholics (drink basically morning til night everyday). Anyways, he got into some serious legal trouble after getting blackout. So now he's trapped in jail, been 2 weeks so he's already gotten through withdrawals and sounds like he feels pretty good and clearheaded! Which is kind of the only good thing I've heard, the rest of this has been hell for us and his family, and no end in sight yet with a $70,000 bail. We're hoping he gets rehab instead of prison, which seems pretty likely. But after he gets out, and when I visit him in the meantime, I want to be sober. We plan on living together in a different city once he's through with rehab (we live like a married couple, but even closer, but also I'm a gay girl, he's a gay guy, so platonic but totally inseparable for almost 3 yrs). Like we even go to the DMV and doc appts together, not having him around feels like losing a limb, but I will be happy if he gets into a rehab despite the 3 months without him. With the stress of all of this and adjusting to a very lonely and boring house without many other friends living nearby, my drinking has ramped up, my liver hurts, I wake up with horrible anxiety/shakes, and I can't stop worrying about him and obviously the cycle keeps getting worse. Plus I'm falling behind in classes because I can't stop going between extreme worry, drunk/high on whatever I have, and then hungover and sick with worry again. I need to slow down soon so that I graduate and don't want to tempt him with it and need to get myself together, but am terrified of asking a doc for help and checking into detox isn't an option right now. Does anyone know any over the counter things that may help with withdrawal or any methods to taper off without screwing up? I have some gabapentin, xan, clonidine, and ambien, so those might help. Also any options for sticking with it besides AA? Thanks for any advice!

 

[drmichaelimperioli]

Been abusing the hell out of my dexedrine again too (haven't really had a problem controlling that in yrs) to compensate for the alcohol so I'm constantly balancing them out to function and not sleeping without adding in another downer of any kind. This sucks.

 

[Jabberwocky]

There's nothing OTC that is going to really help with the withdrawals, except for vitamins. Alcohol depletes your body of thiamine, B3, B6, magnesium and zinc to dangerously low levels. You definitely should buy a multivitamin with these. There are some OTC things that might help after you get sober, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Luckily you have some good stuff to help with the withdrawals. Xanax isn't preferred because of it's short half life, but it will work. Diazepam would be better. The other 3 will also help a lot, but do you already actively use these in combination with alcohol? That's going to complicate your situation a lot more. If you're waking up with shakes AND take benzos daily, you're in a pretty bad spot.

Have you ever been to rehab or AA before? I understand your fear of doctors but you're in a situation where avoiding them is a dangerous situation. It's not impossible to do this on your own but it's going to take a steel resolve. I highly encourage you to seek some avenue of support. You're going to need it. It's relatively easy to get sober in jail... simply because you literally have no other choice.

You're also going to need to cut down on the dexedrine if not completely stop. Taking dexedrine in severe alcohol withdrawal would be a bad idea.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

If you have a physical dependence on alcohol then it's not safe to simply stop. If detox under medical supervision is not an option you should reduce the amount you drink bit by bit.

 

[drmichaelimperioli]

There's nothing OTC that is going to really help with the withdrawals, except for vitamins. Alcohol depletes your body of thiamine, B3, B6, magnesium and zinc to dangerously low levels. You definitely should buy a multivitamin with these. There are some OTC things that might help after you get sober, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Luckily you have some good stuff to help with the withdrawals. Xanax isn't preferred because of it's short half life, but it will work. Diazepam would be better. The other 3 will also help a lot, but do you already actively use these in combination with alcohol? That's going to complicate your situation a lot more. If you're waking up with shakes AND take benzos daily, you're in a pretty bad spot.

Have you ever been to rehab or AA before? I understand your fear of doctors but you're in a situation where avoiding them is a dangerous situation. It's not impossible to do this on your own but it's going to take a steel resolve. I highly encourage you to seek some avenue of support. You're going to need it. It's relatively easy to get sober in jail... simply because you literally have no other choice.

You're also going to need to cut down on the dexedrine if not completely stop. Taking dexedrine in severe alcohol withdrawal would be a bad idea.

Thanks! I'll check out the vitamins. Luckily, I almost never take xanax, I'm not a huge fan of it. I only have the script for panic attacks. I've never been to rehab, but have tried AA a couple times. I went to some different meetings and just didn't understand how it would help. I know that you don't HAVE to be Christian to do it, but it kind of felt that way and it hasn't resonated with me. I might try it again now that I'm a bit more serious about doing this. I know it's going to be very rough, but don't have many options for treatment right now. Honestly, if this doesn't work by the end of the semester, I'll probably seek rehab, but the idea of telling my family is too overwhelming with everything going on right now. And yeah, the dexedrine with alcohol withdrawals would probably make me feel like my heart's gonna explode lol. They both feed into each other, I mainly started drinking daily because I was abusing dexedrine a few years ago and realized that the alcohol would balance out the jitters.

 

[drmichaelimperioli]

If you have a physical dependence on alcohol then it's not safe to simply stop. If detox under medical supervision is not an option you should reduce the amount you drink bit by bit.

Yeah, I was thinking of cutting down on vodka and starting to switch to hard seltzers/beer since it's a lot harder for me to get drunk with those and hopefully that'll reduce the physical dependence enough to cut it out altogether

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey @drmichaelimperioli

Sorry to hear you're having such a tough time. Literally anything can happen when you get drunk. For most folks, these are moments of embarrassment, but there are some people doing life in jail and receiving death threats for their actions that started with "having a few beers".

There is the common belief among the general public that, logically, Alcohol must be less harmful, easier to quit etc. because of how available it is. Withdrawing from Alcohol is generally more intense and always more complicated than withdrawing from a drug like Heroin (Opioids). There is a lot that can go wrong. Given that you drink all day, every day, you could experience seizures by withdrawing too fast, which makes it totally unadvisable. I know you say you can't go to detox right now, but that's also what pretty much every person says when they go to detox. Your choices are basically to seek professional help or to continue drinking. There is a slim chance that you could withdraw yourself using prescription medications like Benzodiazepines in a step-down fashion, but this is generally too much for any of us. We either can't be trusted or will do something wrong... keep in mind your mind is not working at full capacity when you're withdrawing from Alcohol.

I really would try to get more comfortable with the idea of checking in somewhere, at least for 5 days to get through the worst of it. After that, you're going to need to find something to substitute for Alcohol in your day to day life that makes you feel complete and happy. This isn't easy, jumping from one life to another and many people give up and return to Alcohol. It's not easy. It's possible to recover on your own, but you will be much better off seeking help. Otherwise, you can google typical treatments for Alcohol withdrawal. They will list the drugs, dosage ranges and timelines as it's pretty regimented at this point in history.

This might be something like, 4mg-6mg Lorazapam (Ativan) descending over the course of several days. It could be more and it could be less. This is the job of the nurses and doctors at the detox center. In short, if I'm in any kind of withdrawal and I have my way, I'll always feel like I could use just a little more Lorazepam. I encourage you to seek professional help, but that doesn't mean we won't do what we can for you.

Alcohol withdrawal is potentially deadly, so as a Harm Reduction service, we would be wrong to suggest putting this into your hands alone.

 

[AbbeyLee]

My roommate and I are pretty bad alcoholics (drink basically morning til night everyday). Anyways, he got into some serious legal trouble after getting blackout. So now he's trapped in jail, been 2 weeks so he's already gotten through withdrawals and sounds like he feels pretty good and clearheaded! Which is kind of the only good thing I've heard, the rest of this has been hell for us and his family, and no end in sight yet with a $70,000 bail. We're hoping he gets rehab instead of prison, which seems pretty likely. But after he gets out, and when I visit him in the meantime, I want to be sober. We plan on living together in a different city once he's through with rehab (we live like a married couple, but even closer, but also I'm a gay girl, he's a gay guy, so platonic but totally inseparable for almost 3 yrs). Like we even go to the DMV and doc appts together, not having him around feels like losing a limb, but I will be happy if he gets into a rehab despite the 3 months without him. With the stress of all of this and adjusting to a very lonely and boring house without many other friends living nearby, my drinking has ramped up, my liver hurts, I wake up with horrible anxiety/shakes, and I can't stop worrying about him and obviously the cycle keeps getting worse. Plus I'm falling behind in classes because I can't stop going between extreme worry, drunk/high on whatever I have, and then hungover and sick with worry again. I need to slow down soon so that I graduate and don't want to tempt him with it and need to get myself together, but am terrified of asking a doc for help and checking into detox isn't an option right now. Does anyone know any over the counter things that may help with withdrawal or any methods to taper off without screwing up? I have some gabapentin, xan, clonidine, and ambien, so those might help. Also any options for sticking with it besides AA? Thanks for any advice!

Hey

I was a blackout drinker and ended up damaging my pancreas at 35yo. Women's bodies don't hold up to alcohol like men's do.

I just wanted to point out - you've already started in that you know it's a problem AND want to do something about it. I knew it was a problem but it took the pancreatitis to get me going to AA and trying to live without it.

It is dangerous to stop suddenly. I never had seizures but people do and some do die It's a powerful drug.

Best of luck..
Abbey xx

 

[drmichaelimperioli]

Hey

I was a blackout drinker and ended up damaging my pancreas at 35yo. Women's bodies don't hold up to alcohol like men's do.

I just wanted to point out - you've already started in that you know it's a problem AND want to do something about it. I knew it was a problem but it took the pancreatitis to get me going to AA and trying to live without it.

It is dangerous to stop suddenly. I never had seizures but people do and some do die It's a powerful drug.

Best of luck..
Abbey xx

Thank u! I think maybe I can taper off (I hope, my stress is crazy with this jail situation). Had to go a week sober last year because I was donating a kidney but they wouldn't take it until my liver enzymes cooled down, but really had to and withdrawals weren't too bad, just felt a little sick and I was going crazy with anxiety and boredom. I think my friend is another good reason to try to do it and actually stick with it this time, I'd hate to get in the way of his sobriety and would love to be able to live with him again. It really takes the worst situations sometimes and even those aren't always enough. Hope you're doing better now!!

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey

I was a blackout drinker and ended up damaging my pancreas at 35yo. Women's bodies don't hold up to alcohol like men's do.

I just wanted to point out - you've already started in that you know it's a problem AND want to do something about it. I knew it was a problem but it took the pancreatitis to get me going to AA and trying to live without it.

It is dangerous to stop suddenly. I never had seizures but people do and some do die It's a powerful drug.

Best of luck..
Abbey xx

Truth. I have to agree with that statement. These things are better handled in small steps. I think sometimes you have to take a big step all at once or you'll never get anywhere and this is what I consider detox to be. Deciding is a big step, but getting through the sickness with Alcohol all around you is difficult for a lot of people. I think you have to use everything in your toolbox all at once. This is what tends to get the best results.

I know people who have gone through Methadone maintenance not wanting to get better and they don't get better. I know people who go to detox or rehab to satisfy someone or something. They don't get better. I think it's best to combine your powerful resolve with professional hep and a plan for what to do when Alcohol is no longer in your life. I'm a big proponent of programs like the 12 Steps and SMART and so on. I think the methodology is less important than constant connection, self-reflection and honesty. I'm not aware of anything that works as well as these programs for long-term recovery. I'm sure a lot of people out there are happy on there own, but I know a lot who required a lot of help and guidance even after sobriety to get there.

In-short, I would say, don't half-ass it. Getting through withdrawal is one of the hardest things we ever do. There's not a reward for it per se, it's just expected of you, but we all know personally how difficult it is, not just to be clean, but to be okay with that fact. We're all here for you and we can definitely continue the conversation.

 

[drmichaelimperioli]

Hey @drmichaelimperioli

Sorry to hear you're having such a tough time. Literally anything can happen when you get drunk. For most folks, these are moments of embarrassment, but there are some people doing life in jail and receiving death threats for their actions that started with "having a few beers".

There is the common belief among the general public that, logically, Alcohol must be less harmful, easier to quit etc. because of how available it is. Withdrawing from Alcohol is generally more intense and always more complicated than withdrawing from a drug like Heroin (Opioids). There is a lot that can go wrong. Given that you drink all day, every day, you could experience seizures by withdrawing too fast, which makes it totally unadvisable. I know you say you can't go to detox right now, but that's also what pretty much every person says when they go to detox. Your choices are basically to seek professional help or to continue drinking. There is a slim chance that you could withdraw yourself using prescription medications like Benzodiazepines in a step-down fashion, but this is generally too much for any of us. We either can't be trusted or will do something wrong... keep in mind your mind is not working at full capacity when you're withdrawing from Alcohol.

I really would try to get more comfortable with the idea of checking in somewhere, at least for 5 days to get through the worst of it. After that, you're going to need to find something to substitute for Alcohol in your day to day life that makes you feel complete and happy. This isn't easy, jumping from one life to another and many people give up and return to Alcohol. It's not easy. It's possible to recover on your own, but you will be much better off seeking help. Otherwise, you can google typical treatments for Alcohol withdrawal. They will list the drugs, dosage ranges and timelines as it's pretty regimented at this point in history.

This might be something like, 4mg-6mg Lorazapam (Ativan) descending over the course of several days. It could be more and it could be less. This is the job of the nurses and doctors at the detox center. In short, if I'm in any kind of withdrawal and I have my way, I'll always feel like I could use just a little more Lorazepam. I encourage you to seek professional help, but that doesn't mean we won't do what we can for you.

Alcohol withdrawal is potentially deadly, so as a Harm Reduction service, we would be wrong to suggest putting this into your hands alone.

Alcohol really is the worst. I've dabbled in everything else (except crack and pcp), but nothing has ever stuck like alcohol. Can't stand how alcohol is viewed as nothing. Some friends from my hometown tried to get me to go to rehab for doing ket and coke about a year ago but all explicitly said that my drinking was fine! I was shocked that my actual problem could fly under the radar so easily.
I know that medical treatment and maybe even rehab would be the best route, but I'm still reliant on my parents and just want to wait until I finish school to tell them and get help. I can't drop another semester, I'm on my 6th yr at a 4 yr college (not just because of drinking, there were many other factors). Just worried they'll uproot the life I have here and, despite the drinking, I like where I am and have very supportive friends around me and I'm dying to finally get out of school. Also worry that they'll blame my roommate for this problem (sounds crazy but they don't like admitting that my problems are my own and often make him the scapegoat when I screw up). We're planning on moving about 2 hrs away when he gets out/when I graduate for a change of scenery and to create some distance with our addict friends, but can't do that if I'm still drinking. Don't want to ruin his recovery and love him to death. Neither of us are angry drunks, so aside from the drinking we have a very nice life together and do pretty wholesome, fun things (usually with a water bottle of booze though). So really don't want to ruin that plan if we're both sober.
Also, you're very right about finding an activity to replace it because the boredom/anxiety drives me crazier than any of the physical withdrawals! Everything feels so dull without alcohol, I lose motivation (which I'm losing with it too), and I can't get myself to do anything because I freeze with anxiety, but each day feels like it's a full week without booze. Could be a good thing if I actually did the things I want to do, but the anxiety and dullness have made that difficult in the past. Everything either feels like almost nothing or incredibly scary, no positive emotions, and it starts to drive me nuts a little too quickly. I know that you can't recommend doing this without medical supervision, and I appreciate that and know that you're right. Just wanna see if I can at least make some progress on my own before I uproot everything and have to repeat another semester. A friend gave me NAC (some supplement, not really sure) and gave me gabapentin and I swear those two things at least make mornings better as far as shakes/cravings/anxiety, so it's easier to avoid drinking for a bit. Also tried to find Ativan and Valium but no one seems to have those unfortunately. So I guess I'll try these things. Anyways, sorry about the super long reply, but thank you so much!!!

 

[drmichaelimperioli]

Truth. I have to agree with that statement. These things are better handled in small steps. I think sometimes you have to take a big step all at once or you'll never get anywhere and this is what I consider detox to be. Deciding is a big step, but getting through the sickness with Alcohol all around you is difficult for a lot of people. I think you have to use everything in your toolbox all at once. This is what tends to get the best results.

I know people who have gone through Methadone maintenance not wanting to get better and they don't get better. I know people who go to detox or rehab to satisfy someone or something. They don't get better. I think it's best to combine your powerful resolve with professional hep and a plan for what to do when Alcohol is no longer in your life. I'm a big proponent of programs like the 12 Steps and SMART and so on. I think the methodology is less important than constant connection, self-reflection and honesty. I'm not aware of anything that works as well as these programs for long-term recovery. I'm sure a lot of people out there are happy on there own, but I know a lot who required a lot of help and guidance even after sobriety to get there.

In-short, I would say, don't half-ass it. Getting through withdrawal is one of the hardest things we ever do. There's not a reward for it per se, it's just expected of you, but we all know personally how difficult it is, not just to be clean, but to be okay with that fact. We're all here for you and we can definitely continue the conversation.

Just replied to your other comment but was actually wondering about SMART as well. Are meetings similar to AA just not as "religious" I guess? And I agree that it does take a major step but with what's happening to my friend in jail and the way that these have been the worst couple weeks of my life with the stress, loneliness, loss, etc, over his one super dumb blackout act, I do think it's worth a shot to actually stick with it this time. And if this doesn't work within a month, then I'm open to detox/treatment.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Just replied to your other comment but was actually wondering about SMART as well. Are meetings similar to AA just not as "religious" I guess? And I agree that it does take a major step but with what's happening to my friend in jail and the way that these have been the worst couple weeks of my life with the stress, loneliness, loss, etc, over his one super dumb blackout act, I do think it's worth a shot to actually stick with it this time. And if this doesn't work within a month, then I'm open to detox/treatment.

Religion is an interesting thing. Like, I've been to church and I'm familiar with how they operate. I've never felt AA to be religious at all. I just think that is a common misconception, but again, everybody's experience is different. They always told me it was important to have a "higher power", which I at first assumed was a ploy similar to a Church. I always considered that more of a technique of contemplation, whereas a Christian Church is not happy until I'm accepting that Jesus was born on this date, is immortal and when I die I will join with him in Heaven. My entire time in AA, I've prayed and written to what I call a divine intelligence. I don't know what that is. Perhaps there is an intelligent, humanoid God in our image with our desires somewhere, but I don't need to know that. I just need to know that there is something out there, smarter than me, bigger than me and all of my problems and that my ultimate destiny is to be in harmony with this intelligence.

It could just be math, like an infinite web or whatever. It's about trusting in something bigger than you. It is something that takes time. I'm friends with people in AA who are 100% evangelical Christians, I'm Jewish and there are Atheists and Agnostics and we all have our own beliefs. We just come to the meeting and work the system. There is a lot here that is difficult to explain, but as far as I'm concerned, the only religion involved in AA is in religiously working the program and the steps. Your relationship with God, Higher Power or what have you is a personal thing. To put it in short, it's about learning just to let go and trust and I feel as addicts, the idea of losing control is difficult.

AA is not a course though. The idea is that what you learn in the program will be with you for life. That is a big step, I know, but working the program means like 5 meetings a week, talking with other Alcoholics outside of meetings and so on. People will often stop going every day when they get some time together, but that's typically after years.

Your mind is gonna tell you you're sacrificing everything, but the Truth is that whatever awaits you in sobriety will be better than drinking all day.

 

[Keif' Richards]

How many drinks are you having per day?

We can maybe try to help you attempt a detox of your own, but I'm unsure of how severe your problem is.

 

[drmichaelimperioli]

Religion is an interesting thing. Like, I've been to church and I'm familiar with how they operate. I've never felt AA to be religious at all. I just think that is a common misconception, but again, everybody's experience is different. They always told me it was important to have a "higher power", which I at first assumed was a ploy similar to a Church. I always considered that more of a technique of contemplation, whereas a Christian Church is not happy until I'm accepting that Jesus was born on this date, is immortal and when I die I will join with him in Heaven. My entire time in AA, I've prayed and written to what I call a divine intelligence. I don't know what that is. Perhaps there is an intelligent, humanoid God in our image with our desires somewhere, but I don't need to know that. I just need to know that there is something out there, smarter than me, bigger than me and all of my problems and that my ultimate destiny is to be in harmony with this intelligence.

It could just be math, like an infinite web or whatever. It's about trusting in something bigger than you. It is something that takes time. I'm friends with people in AA who are 100% evangelical Christians, I'm Jewish and there are Atheists and Agnostics and we all have our own beliefs. We just come to the meeting and work the system. There is a lot here that is difficult to explain, but as far as I'm concerned, the only religion involved in AA is in religiously working the program and the steps. Your relationship with God, Higher Power or what have you is a personal thing. To put it in short, it's about learning just to let go and trust and I feel as addicts, the idea of losing control is difficult.

AA is not a course though. The idea is that what you learn in the program will be with you for life. That is a big step, I know, but working the program means like 5 meetings a week, talking with other Alcoholics outside of meetings and so on. People will often stop going every day when they get some time together, but that's typically after years.

Your mind is gonna tell you you're sacrificing everything, but the Truth is that whatever awaits you in sobriety will be better than drinking all day.

Gonna answer your other question first: I don't really know how much I drink because it's often in water bottles or just a mix of things or straight from the bottle, but I probably go through a 1.75 L bottle of vodka every 3 days I think.
And I really do see what you're saying and you're right that letting go of control is super difficult for us, but also as much as I tried to take in the "give it to god" statements, it just didn't click with me. I really wanted to feel what they were describing, but couldn't. I grew up Christian, my mom's a born-again baptist and my dad's catholic, and I still do believe in something, so I really don't mind the idea of a god or any higher power. I just haven't left a meeting feeling like that sentiment really helped me because I'd walk back outside and still have a ton of fear and often a stronger urge to drink and surrendering it to a higher power just wasn't providing any relief. The people were all super friendly to me, I enjoyed their stories, sharing was nice, but I just didn't hear much that helped me in a practical way. Never expected that this sentiment would magically cure me or anything like that, but usually I go in and hope that I'll hear more about how people handled their urges emotionally or through implementing different strategies. That's why I was sort of curious about SMART as an alternative, but have no idea if the meetings are similar to AA or if it's totally different. I do like the structure and sense of community in AA and know that it helps a lot of people, just haven't really resonated with it after trying a number of different meetings.

 

[Endopharm]

When I quit, lifelong heavy drinker, bit didn't really have a problem until about 7 years ago. I was drinking up to 24 tall boys of beer per day and a 750ml of vodka every two days at my worst.

When I quit, I got clonazepam and reduced from 24 beer to 16(no vodka) did this for 3 days.

Reduced to 12 for about 4-5 days

Reduced to 7 for 5 days ish

Reduced to 4 at night for 3 days

Reduced to 2 for 3 days.

Then none. Basically felt like I had a mild hangover and no appetite for 3 days, those 3 days it was tough to sleep also.

Maybe I'm a unicorn or something because I had almost zero serious issues during my decrease and all my labs were completely normal.

Definitely seek a dr first though because I have heard lots of horror stories.

I genuinely hope you and your significant other do well and enjoy a much better life, much much better!

 

[drmichaelimperioli]

When I quit, lifelong heavy drinker, bit didn't really have a problem until about 7 years ago. I was drinking up to 24 tall boys of beer per day and a 750ml of vodka every two days at my worst.

When I quit, I got clonazepam and reduced from 24 beer to 16(no vodka) did this for 3 days.

Reduced to 12 for about 4-5 days

Reduced to 7 for 5 days ish

Reduced to 4 at night for 3 days

Reduced to 2 for 3 days.

Then none. Basically felt like I had a mild hangover and no appetite for 3 days, those 3 days it was tough to sleep also.

Maybe I'm a unicorn or something because I had almost zero serious issues during my decrease and all my labs were completely normal.

Definitely seek a dr first though because I have heard lots of horror stories.

I genuinely hope you and your significant other do well and enjoy a much better life, much much better!

Thanks, something along those lines sounds like it could be doable!

 

[Endopharm]

Thanks, something along those lines sounds like it could be doable!

It definitely is!

Again do it with your doctor and definitely get a 2 week script(theyll choose clonazepam or diazepam).

List of supplements

B complex, 50mg twice per day
Magnesium bisglycinate 500-750mg per day.
Fish oil, 3 grams 3 times per day.
Try to limit caffeine or any stims.

Try to drink alot of water or crystal lite, or even watered down pedialyte.

Trust me(even as a former health professional), I was scared shitless to do this.

But he agreed and it was actually quite easy. By day 3 of sober I was completely fine.

And ohhhh is it a treat when normal sleep and eating habits come back! And you likely wont gain weight because you'll be enjoying being waaaaay more active!

AA wasnt a route I took, I personally found it to be alot of people just trying to make me feel bad(which sucks).

Also, even if you feel like crap a few times, go for a walk, do housework, anything that can keep ya moving abit.

Try not to just lay in bed stewing in your own brain

You can do this!!!

 

[kongoman]

Have you read the last post? @Endopharm reducing method I thing is the best way to get off alcohol. Just try it, you have nothing to loose. Turn Vodka to a los degree alcohol dring like beer or try it with Vodka iff you dont like beers. Gabapentine and benzos would help you if you dose it in the right way.

Dont hesitate to ask whatever you want. We are here to help you and come along you.
Write whenever is possible to you and tell us what are you thoughts and what movements are you ready to do. before you act before you will finish with it.

Lots of love and hugs to you and your pair

STOP WAR

 

[kongoman]

@Endopharm very useful info. Probably he have the key. Thank you man.
@drmichaelimperioli ^^Very helpful INFO.