Mass Shooting and Gun Control Megathread

[Nid Styles]

But then someone could falsely accuse another to get the guns removed, rendering them vulnerable to a plot.

It's got to be thorough psychological/record vetting before gun purchase, and then a yearly evaluation to renew your license. It makes no sense to have loopholes that allow for removal of weapons by the state on vague assertions by another person.

If it were tough enough it would dissuade the average chump and those not responsible enough, and retain those with the discipline (and mental balance). If someone fails their re-evaluation, or doesn't show up, then the state can remove their weapons.

There are countries where guns are already banned. Why not move there?

 

[Electrum1]

Possibly related:
Six Flags CEO: ‘We became a cheap day care center for teenagers’

Six Flags CEO: ‘We became a cheap day care center for teenagers’

Last month, a teen was arrested for aggravated assault of a police officer at Great Adventure in Jackson Township, NJ.

nypost.com

 

[Electrum1]

 

[Electrum1]

Highly suspicious

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Highly suspicious

I saw something about that. Proponents point to stuff like how the Pulse Nightclub shooter spent $26000 on firearms/ammo via credit cards in the month leading up to his attack. But where is the line drawn for what is 'suspect'? Personally I'm not comfortable with credit card vendors getting involved in 2A politics nor am I comfortable with them telling anyone how much I spend on ammo, etc. monthly.

Could credit card transactions be used in an effective way like a Minority Report type thing? Yeah, probably. Will they instead be used to prosecute and persecute law abiding citizens? Almost certainly.

 

[alasdairm]

Will they instead be used to prosecute and persecute law abiding citizens? Almost certainly.

what will they be prosecuted for if they are law-abiding?

alasdair

 

[Jabberwocky]

Things you can't pay for with credit cards:

Mortgages
College tuition
Student loans
Car loans
Lottery tickets / gambling

And for whatever reason you can't buy porn with American Express

Why not? My guess is limiting irresponsible purchases with money you don't have.

2A gives the right to purchase a gun, but does not force credit companies to buy it for you.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

2A gives the right to purchase a gun, but does not force credit companies to buy it for you.

Lol fair enough. It just seems odd. Also I didn't know AmEx forbade porn purchases lol, that's... weird.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Lol fair enough. It just seems odd. Also I didn't know AmEx forbade porn purchases lol, that's... weird.

My guess is the feds put pressure on credit companies.

Buying things with credit are often more impulsive purchases. A lot of these mass shooters are young adults who might not be able to afford one otherwise.

I can see the reasoning behind this, even if it only makes a small dent in gun crime.

I'm sure there are also tons of ill intentioned people who buy guns on credit and then intentionally do not pay it back.

 

[Electrum1]

Things you can't pay for with credit cards:

Mortgages
College tuition
Student loans
Car loans
Lottery tickets / gambling

And for whatever reason you can't buy porn with American Express

Why not? My guess is limiting irresponsible purchases with money you don't have.

2A gives the right to purchase a gun, but does not force credit companies to buy it for you.

That's credit tho, not debit cards. It includes debit cards in the link I posted

With red flag laws in the gun bill that recently passed into law, Visa could red flag me for using my debit card to legally buy 20,000 AK-47 rounds using MY money, and then the govt confiscates my legally obtained property and puts me on an FBI watchlist

Taking my property that I legally bought, without me making any threats, is a violation of my rights

 

[Jabberwocky]

That's credit tho, not debit cards. It includes debit cards in the link I posted

With red flag laws in the gun bill that recently passed into law, Visa could red flag me for using my debit card to legally buy 20,000 AK-47 rounds using MY money, and then the govt confiscates my legally obtained property and puts me on an FBI watchlist

Ah, debit included is different for sure.

What's wrong with red flag laws, though? I don't understand why gun advocates praise responsible gun ownership then freak out about red flag laws... If you're a law abiding citizen why are you worried?

20,000 rounds bro??? What???

I'm sorry but no normal person needs 20,000 rounds of ammunition. You should need a special license for that. Weird example. Nobody needs 20,000 rounds for any legitimate purpose.

I'm a law abiding citizen but can't buy more than 2 boxes of psuedoephedrine, and when I do the government records and monitors my purchase. Nobody complaining about that except meth cooks.

 

[Electrum1]

Ah, debit included is different for sure.

What's wrong with red flag laws, though? I don't understand why gun advocates praise responsible gun ownership then freak out about red flag laws... If you're a law abiding citizen why are you worried?

Because they can be abused. If two people conspire to claim I'm acting crazy and threatening then my rights can be violated

It also opens up abuse due to politics. We all see prominent politicians and media figures lable normal gun owners as domestic terrorists and threats, crazy people, and so on

20,000 rounds bro??? What???

I'm sorry but no normal person needs 20,000 rounds of ammunition. You should need a special license for that. Weird example.

I used 20,000 as an example because it doesn't matter if I need it or not when it's my right to purchase and own it

I'm a law abiding citizen but can't buy more than 2 boxes of psuedoephedrine. Nobody complaining about that except meth cooks.

They use it for illegal manufacturing

I don't use AK47 ammunition for illegal activity

 

[Las Veghost grower]

So what if I want to stockpile ammo, shits getting expensive and the price will only go up from here

 

[Jabberwocky]

They use it for illegal manufacturing

I don't use AK47 ammunition for illegal activity

I don't use psuedoephedrine for illegal activity either

I used 20,000 as an example because it doesn't matter if I need it or not when it's my right to purchase and own it

I think it does matter. 2A is not unlimited or unbounded in any sense. There is a clear difference between personal use rights and arms dealing.

2A says absolutely nothing about stockpiling ammunition or arms dealing, does it?

 

[Electrum1]

I don't use psuedoephedrine for illegal activity either

Lol

I think it does matter. 2A is not unlimited or unbounded in any sense. There is a clear difference between personal use rights and arms dealing.

2A says absolutely nothing about stockpiling ammunition or arms dealing, does it?

I'm not armed if I only have a gun but no ammunition. 2A says I have a right to be armed

It's not illegal to stockpile ammo, and it shouldn't be. Maybe I use it as a hedge against inflation like people use gold. Doesn't matter tho, because it's my right to buy and own ammo without having to explain myself

 

[alasdairm]

With red flag laws in the gun bill that recently passed into law, Visa could red flag me for using my debit card to legally buy 20,000 AK-47 rounds using MY money, and then the govt confiscates my legally obtained property and puts me on an FBI watchlist

Taking my property that I legally bought, without me making any threats, is a violation of my rights

is this happening? can you post a link to an example or two?

thanks.

alasdair

 

[Electrum1]

is this happening? can you post a link to an example or two?

thanks.

alasdair

My point is that we now have the legal landscape for it to happen after the gun bill passed and now card companies flagging legal gun/ammo purchases with a special code

 

[Jabberwocky]

My point is that we now have the legal landscape for it to happen after the gun bill passed and now card companies flagging legal gun/ammo purchases with a special code

Credit/debit is not mentioned or protected by the constitution.

Use cash.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Credit/debit is not mentioned or protected by the constitution.

Use cash.

Anyone who really shoots buys ammo online now though. Bulk is cheaper and money is still money. It's pretty damn hard to find an online vendor for anything whatsoever that accepts cash or even money orders.

Sure, you can buy stuff in person with cash. But even gun sales have moved online, within a heavily restricted and monitored system. I just spent ~$2000 on a rifle I've been saving up for all year and I used my credit card because I wanted the cash back and no stores nearby had the model I wanted, so I was forced to place my purchase online at a store an hour away.

Lots of reasons why cash can't be used these days.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Anyone who really shoots buys ammo online now though. Bulk is cheaper and money is still money. It's pretty damn hard to find an online vendor for anything whatsoever that accepts cash or even money orders.

Sure, you can buy stuff in person with cash. But even gun sales have moved online, within a heavily restricted and monitored system. I just spent ~$2000 on a rifle I've been saving up for all year and I used my credit card because I wanted the cash back and no stores nearby had the model I wanted, so I was forced to place my purchase online at a store an hour away.

Lots of reasons why cash can't be used these days.

I guess this is a great example as to why the 2A might be a bit outdated? Society has changed in innumerable ways.

I'm not suggesting it should be fundamentally changed, only updated for modern times.