Mass Shooting and Gun Control Megathread

[hylite]

I have actually have seen others ordering things with money orders. Over the phone orders then sending the payment or sending the payment first with a check.

I have seen website's however that do not even have a phone number. Anyway a lot of us here only buy local and a gun is a gun. However bulk ammo and excess does have to be ordered on line for specific items.

And then when they do a crime hopefully they won't have to do the time.

If I want something I am going to figure out a way to obtain.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

My point is that we now have the legal landscape for it to happen after the gun bill passed and now card companies flagging legal gun/ammo purchases with a special code

This is just another hypothetical aka slippery slope argument that nobody can prove will happen because it's in the future and hasn't happened yet.

Remember when the Brady Law passed and people were crying that since they had to wait a couple of days for a purchase that they wouldn't be able to defend themselves during the time window? How many people actually died while waiting for their legally purchased firearm?

IMO red flag laws, if used properly, will help save more lives than it hurts. How many of the recent mass shooters slipped through the cracks due to NOT having red flag laws? Just because someone might possibly use the law improperly doesn't mean it isn't worth having and enforcing.

These hypothetical arguments are just more excuses to not do anything to curb the violence created by rampant gun crime. I saw recently that mass shootings in Texas increased like 60% since constitutional carry was passed. Where are all the good guys with guns we keep hearing about? I thought they were supposed to save everyone. smfh

Texas Mass Shootings Up 62.5 Percent Since Permitless Carry Bill - Reform Austin

Just over a year ago, Governor Greg Abbott signed a law making it legal for anyone in Texas over the age of 21 to openly carry a gun in public without a permit or license. Since then, the number of mass shootings has risen 62.5 percent.

www.reformaustin.org

I'm with Snafu, if people are so worried about technology catching up with common sense gun reform, then the 2nd AMENDMENT needs to be AMENDED to keep up with the times. I'd personally like to see more detail regarding the "well regulated militia" aspect of 2A.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

I saw recently that mass shootings in Texas increased like 60% since constitutional carry was passed. Where are all the good guys with guns we keep hearing about? I thought they were supposed to save everyone.

Well one doesn't have much to do with the other as I'm sure you know. Also even with a permit it's illegal to carry a firearm any place that a mass shooter would generally target (i.e. government buildings, concerts, schools, etc.). So permitting open carry without a license really doesn't change anything at all, seeing as your average law abider isn't going to carry where signs are posted forbidding you to do so. You know it was virtue signaling, I know it was. We all know. Texas was far from the first state to pass constitutional carry into law anyhow.

 

[alasdairm]

Also even with a permit it's illegal to carry a firearm any place that a mass shooter would generally target (i.e. government buildings, concerts, schools, etc.). So permitting open carry without a license really doesn't change anything at all, seeing as your average law abider isn't going to carry where signs are posted forbidding you to do so.

which suggests that "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun..." is really just a fallacy...

alasdair

 

[Las Veghost grower]

 

[arrall]

Honestly, the gun laws here were relatively relaxed pre-Trudeau. You could own assault rifles and other 'restricted weapons' with extensive training classes and the proper licenses.
The process was a bit pricey but it was still pretty fair, and certainly seemed to work far better than the system in the USA.

But a few years ago, Trudeau cracked down and made it far more difficult to legally own/obtain guns here.
The problem is that most of our handguns and illegal guns are smuggled in from the USA.
So gun crime and violent crime continue to rise throughout Canada, and people are just further supporting illegal gun smuggling operations that bring guns across the US-Canada border.
The vast majority of violent gun crime here is committed with those illegal firearms. It didn't take a genius to see that it wasn't going to work, and the assault weapons ban clearly hasn't.

A recent bill, C-21, would institute a mandatory buyback and could apparently even ban airsoft guns (Which is obviously ridiculous) I really hope that it doesn't pass.

It is very interesting to see ways like this that people have been using to break our gun laws amidst the new regulations.

 

[Electrum1]

The largest-ever survey of American gun owners finds that defensive use of firearms is common

A large survey of American gun owners suggests that they use firearms for self-defense about 1.7 million times a year.

reason.com

 

[Xorkoth]

I am not making any claims about the validity of the survey because I haven't clicked the link, but I wonder how reliable self-reporting is from people who have a vested interest in it looking like their gun ownership is needed and valuable?

As you probably know from on here, I don't think banning guns is the answer... that's not what I'm saying, only pointing out that the results from that survey might be hard to trust as being fully accurate. Imagine you're a gun owner in this current political climate, and are presented with a survey asking if you've used your gun to protect yourself? It's pretty obvious that saying "yes" is going to further your own cause.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Imagine you're a gun owner in this current political climate, and are presented with a survey asking if you've used your gun to protect yourself? It's pretty obvious that saying "yes" is going to further your own cause.

True. I would check 'yes I have' if I were surveyed. I've drawn a pistol on two occasions, but I was simply scared and holding it behind me. Never actually brandished it.

I wonder how reliable self-reporting is from people who have a vested interest in it looking like their gun ownership is needed and valuable?

Have you ever felt like you needed to answer a question about drug use with a lie? This isn't directed at you Xork but really everyone; as drug users, do we not face persecution from society for enjoying something that a vocal minority doesn't want us to? I find it contradictory when anyone is like 'Yay drugs' combined with 'boooo guns'. Both have been deemed as unnecessary by society but their proponents would rather die than go without them. For me, I see rights to drug use as similar to 2A rights. And I guarantee you if LSD was somehow protected under a constitutional amendment there would be a vocal minority trying to remove it from the constitution or render it null via convoluted laws.

Point I'm tryna make I guess is, I'm confused why anyone who loves freedom would oppose freedom. Especially drug users who have been second class citizens since the mid-20th century. Food for thought... or the ramblings of a dumbass, I dunno lol

could apparently even ban airsoft guns (Which would fucking piss me off.) I really hope that it doesn't pass.

I know most Canooks don't care for guns but banning airsoft guns is so silly... so damn silly. I used my experience leading an airsoft team in high school on my resume when applying for military officer school. I love mil-sim and luckily Texas has weak airsoft laws (don't have to paint tips orange here, I know Cali requires it tho) and I wouldn't trade all those youthful memories for anything. The time a cop pointed a real rifle at us was a bit squirrelly though. Turned out he was already on probation for excessive force issues.

Honestly, the gun laws here were decent pre-Trudeau.

And that's a major bummer for freedom loving Canadians too. I've always wanted to own a Type-96 rifle (the semi-auto variant of the Chinese military's Type-95) but they've been banned in the U.S. since the 90s because Norinco (Chinese state arms manufacturer) was caught attempting to sell RPGs (yes, fuckin' military grade explosives) to local gangs in Atlanta. Needless to say the ATF was quick to say 'no more' to any Chinese imports. Russian imports halted here in the Trump administration too (yeah he's soooooo pro-2A... fuck Trump) so now Russian made surplus for AK variants costs an arm and a leg.

Long story short, Canadians used be able to purchase a Type-96 rifle for about $1k Canadian dollars. Not a bad deal, most bullpups are more pricey. It was the one major gun benefit of being Canadian, you could own a Type-96 and Americans couldn't. Well now no one can so... that's just a real bummer lol




It has been a quiet few weeks in terms of gun violence *knocks on wood* and it has been nice not waking up to news about shootings nor restrictions.

 

[Xorkoth]

Have you ever felt like you needed to answer a question about drug use with a lie? This isn't directed at you Xork but really everyone; as drug users, do we not face persecution from society for enjoying something that a vocal minority doesn't want us to? I find it contradictory when anyone is like 'Yay drugs' combined with 'boooo guns'. Both have been deemed as unnecessary by society but their proponents would rather die than go without them. For me, I see rights to drug use as similar to 2A rights. And I guarantee you if LSD was somehow protected under a constitutional amendment there would be a vocal minority trying to remove it from the constitution or render it null via convoluted laws.

Point I'm tryna make I guess is, I'm confused why anyone who loves freedom would oppose freedom. Especially drug users who have been second class citizens since the mid-20th century. Food for thought... or the ramblings of a dumbass, I dunno lol

Yeah for sure, I'm not even denigrating someone for answering in a way that they feel would benefit them. Just pointing out that the survey may not paint the truth of the matter. I don't oppose guns anyway. Just pointing out that self-reporting is not a reliable data point.

 

[Xorkoth]

Maybe not related to this... but shit man, my good friend (old school Bluelighter samadhi_smiles in fact) was just driving down a street a few miles from my house, and a guy dressed in a trenchcoat wearing a hockey mask was walking towards the school, and as he drove by, he pointed what looked like a gun at him. He texted me asking if he should call the cops, I was like yeah man, definitely. Now the cops have called him several times asking if he has more info because they don't see anyone. I'm hoping very much that it's not what it seems like it could be. Although the police are on it now.

My friend is pretty shaken up. He says the guy turned and kept pointing it at him as he drove down the road until he got pretty far away and then the guy turned back and kept walking.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

^That’s fucked man if I saw a guy in trench coat near our school here I’d 100% be on the phone to 911. The hockey mask sealed the deal, that’s 100% batshit crazy walking down the road in a trench coat in September with a hockey mask on…

 

[deficiT]

Maybe not related to this... but shit man, my good friend (old school Bluelighter samadhi_smiles in fact) was just driving down a street a few miles from my house, and a guy dressed in a trenchcoat wearing a hockey mask was walking towards the school, and as he drove by, he pointed what looked like a gun at him. He texted me asking if he should call the cops, I was like yeah man, definitely. Now the cops have called him several times asking if he has more info because they don't see anyone. I'm hoping very much that it's not what it seems like it could be. Although the police are on it now.

My friend is pretty shaken up. He says the guy turned and kept pointing it at him as he drove down the road until he got pretty far away and then the guy turned back and kept walking.

Holy shit, that dude's asking for it honestly.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah, I haven't heard anything else and I renewed my license today and drove by the school on the way back and everything looked normal. Either he got spooked or he was just fucking with people. Can you imagine the level of asshole you'd have to be to fuck with people like that these days?

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Can you imagine the level of asshole you'd have to be to fuck with people like that these days?

I'm certain that they exist though. Hell, my friend does odd shit like shout at random people in traffic, it damn near got us run off the road a few times. Some people really have no filter when it comes to fucking with people.

If someone is trying to scare people by just acting like a murderer in public they should probably be held and checked into by the police. Fuckin' creepy.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

Have you ever felt like you needed to answer a question about drug use with a lie? This isn't directed at you Xork but really everyone; as drug users, do we not face persecution from society for enjoying something that a vocal minority doesn't want us to? I find it contradictory when anyone is like 'Yay drugs' combined with 'boooo guns'. Both have been deemed as unnecessary by society but their proponents would rather die than go without them. For me, I see rights to drug use as similar to 2A rights. And I guarantee you if LSD was somehow protected under a constitutional amendment there would be a vocal minority trying to remove it from the constitution or render it null via convoluted laws.

Point I'm tryna make I guess is, I'm confused why anyone who loves freedom would oppose freedom. Especially drug users who have been second class citizens since the mid-20th century. Food for thought... or the ramblings of a dumbass, I dunno lol

I dunno man, with some exceptions like drugs cut with fentanyl, drug use is essentially a "crime" that only hurts the user. Guns, OTOH, are more often than not used against other people. Of course suicides are an exception but guns are first and foremost a tool used to kill others.

This is the argument I give when people say "a gun is a tool just like a hammer." I'm like no, a hammer is used to install/remove nails although it can be used as a weapon. Ain't no one using a gun to install or remove anything besides a person's life. It's comparing apples to broomsticks.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

^So is there never a time in which a person would need a tool to end another person’s life? I would argue there are many situations in which one might need to use such a tool and that it isn’t immoral to do so.

Human nature is violent and thus we need tools to defend ourselves from the humans who have chosen paths of extreme evil. To believe otherwise is to be ignorant and turn a blind eye to the true nature of humanity. If everybody were like Jesus or Buddha sure, no need for any weaponry ever of any sort. Unfortunately we live in a hostile world where other humans are constantly trying to harm us.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

^So is there never a time in which a person would need a tool to end another person’s life? I would argue there are many situations in which one might need to use such a tool and that it isn’t immoral to do so.

Human nature is violent and thus we need tools to defend ourselves from the humans who have chosen paths of extreme evil. To believe otherwise is to be ignorant and turn a blind eye to the true nature of humanity. If everybody were like Jesus or Buddha sure, no need for any weaponry ever of any sort. Unfortunately we live in a hostile world where other humans are constantly trying to harm us.

Yeh, you are correct but I wasn't necessarily arguing against using a gun for self-defense. If anything I mainly intended to state that drugs =/= guns as you appeared to say in your previous post.

In fact to reiterate your point here, since it seems like everyone who comes around preaching peace (Jesus, MLK Jr, John Lennon, etc) gets murdered, even the pacifists need some way to defend themselves. Or at least have armed body guards. Then again, we wouldn't have any martyrs if all the peace-lovers died of old age.

In the eternal lyrics of Bob Dylan:

Through many dark hour
I’ve been thinkin’ about this
That Jesus Christ
Was betrayed by a kiss
But I can’t think for you
You’ll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot
Had God on his side

 

[Cream Gravy?]

If anything I mainly intended to state that drugs =/= guns as you appeared to say in your previous post.

Fair enough. I still think them to be equal rights issues because neither harms others by my definition but... so many people would disagree with me about that on both.

I'm talking in circles again.

 

[Bagseed]

for some perspective, living in a pretty peaceful nation in central europe, I think knowing that people rarely carry guns means that most criminals also don't bother using them really. people breaking into homes usually happens when the place is empty anyway (people on vacation). and it is actually not that hard here to get a license to own a handgun here. most people just don't bother.

on a sidenote: I don't think it is justified to shoot someone just because they threaten your property. I mean wtf, someone poor can be killed because they want to steal stuff to make a living? dealing with that should not be a matter of a trigger happy scared gun owner. self defense when your live is actually in danger is reasonable, but I think stand your ground, property theft etc. is crazy shit. I wouldn't shoot a person because they are stealing my stereo or whatever.

in the end it is probably a matter of culture and usa culture seems to be deeply about violence and property rights.