Misc Levodopa

[plumbus-nine]

I wonder whether levodopa might have uses beyond Parkinson's, like to lower prolactin and re-fill dopamine after ceasing drug use. Yeah I know that stuff is more complicated than just depletion and that levodopa has the same reputation as dopamine agonists, as being non-recreational but I wonder if somebody here has actually tried it. At least they sell mucuna pruriens even on eBay and it must have some uses then. I've tried pramipexole out of curiosity and high prolactin and found it useless, the first dosage sedated me a bit and then it did nothing besides inducing headaches. Maybe I'll try cabergoline next if I manage to get that (again, against prolactin) but wonder whether mucuna/levodopa would have different, possibly nice effects like aiding with ADHD (which I am badly in need for). Local pharmacy sells them so it would be a low effort to give them a try.

As a side note, I know that they say that levodopa should only be used as a med of last resort because it induces stuff like so called end of dose dyskinesia and possibly other stuff related to long term downregulation of dopamine but also is this in people with Parkinson's, which involves degradation of the production of dopamine so I'm unsure what to make off this for otherwise healthy humans.

 

[negrogesic]

Tricky business fooling around with l-dopa, can be toxic in a variety of ways, oxidative stress, toxic dopamine metabolites (like DOPAL), excess homocysteine, etc. And without using a DDCI like carbidopa to inhibit DOPA decarboxylase you might start to experience some peripheral side-effects

I have heard that a DDCI isn't necessary when taking mucana pruriens derived l-dopa, but i'm not sure if that is true or how that even makes sense, unless its simply a function of lower total exposure to l-dopa when consuming mucana pruriens relative to pharmaceutical preparations of l-dopa (ie, the quantity of l-dopa in mucana pruriens is comparatively low).

I actually did fool around with mucana pruriens extract to see if I could increase the effect of dextroamphetamine, but it didn't seem to work that well and I didn't want to push the dose out of caution. I think l-tyrosine is a much safer way of going about it.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

L-dopa was in the arsenal of the smart drug crowd some years back. You take just a small fraction of a pill every morning, increasing slowly if you desire. A little too much too soon will make you sick.

You get zippy and more efficient, you also get a manic euphoria. Very pleasant, but you get a bit crazy too. As previously mentioned, it's supposed to be pretty neurotoxic. I tried it once for a few weeks and never again.

 

[plumbus-nine]

L-dopa was in the arsenal of the smart drug crowd some years back. You take just a small fraction of a pill every morning, increasing slowly if you desire. A little too much too soon will make you sick.

You get zippy and more efficient, you also get a manic euphoria. Very pleasant, but you get a bit crazy too. As previously mentioned, it's supposed to be pretty neurotoxic. I tried it once for a few weeks and never again.

Oh fuck, this sounds amazing and kinda like what I've expected from the levodopa! Too bad it's neurotoxic wonder how bad this is, and if another drug on top like emoxypine or selegiline (both are neuroprotective) might be protective against.

As the pharmacies here sell carbi/levodopa without prescription, while amphetamines are controlled and hard to get unfortunately, I might get a box and try it myself in low dose. How much did you use?

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Oh fuck, this sounds amazing and kinda like what I've expected from the levodopa! Too bad it's neurotoxic wonder how bad this is, and if another drug on top like emoxypine or selegiline (both are neuroprotective) might be protective against.

As the pharmacies here sell carbi/levodopa without prescription, while amphetamines are controlled and hard to get unfortunately, I might get a box and try it myself in low dose. How much did you use?

Oh gosh, it's been literally decades since I did this. I don't want to recommend it at all. I remember that it was a tiny fraction of a pill.

There was a lot of literature from people into smart drugs around at the time and that's where I got my recommendation as to dose. I just did a quick search and didn't find anything, but you might go in that direction if you want to research.

As well as being neurotoxic (like, as in it can hasten or cause the Parkinson's it treats) it can really make you manic. That's what I meant when I said it can make you crazy too.
I didn't stop using it because I ran out. I stopped using it because I was getting so manic that I figured that I would lose my job if I continued.

I wouldn't recommend it as a substitute for amphetamines for sure. This was later in my life than my amphetamine days. I can't imagine what would have happened had I used it as a speed substitute.

If I'm not mistaken, Selegiline is used along with L-dopa for Parkinsons patients to reduce the dose of L-dopa.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Oh, okay - thanks for the warning! If I decide to try it, I'll titrate up very carefully but good to know that it's about fractions of pills.

Yeah, selegiline is used in Parkinson's, and it supposedly blocks the neurotoxicity of methamphetamine, this was why I thought it might be helpful together with levodopa but probably too risky and too potent. Also it's similarly controlled as amphetamine here probably because it metabolizes to traces of d-amphetamine. Stupid.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Anybody else having experiences with levodopa/combo or mucuna pruriens alone? I am still unsure whether I should give it a try. Read in another thread that people were using mucuna pruriens after a stim to replenish dopamine storage much like 5-htp can be used with/after serotonin releasers but maybe they were using too little mucuna to reach relevant brain levels and just got placebo effects.

Also wonder about how 5-htp would be when combined with something like carbidopa. 5-htp has proven effects but it's weird because it will instantly be converted to serotonin which then is either taken up into vesicles or degraded by MAO-A. So there should be no effects besides storage replenishment but there absolutely are, 5-htp helped me with withdrawing from venlafaxine. Read about some side effects when 5-htp is combined with carbidopa, if I remember it correctly it was about a skin rash or something alike.

 

[sludgekatana]

Anybody else having experiences with levodopa/combo or mucuna pruriens alone? I am still unsure whether I should give it a try. Read in another thread that people were using mucuna pruriens after a stim to replenish dopamine storage much like 5-htp can be used with/after serotonin releasers but maybe they were using too little mucuna to reach relevant brain levels and just got placebo effects.

Also wonder about how 5-htp would be when combined with something like carbidopa. 5-htp has proven effects but it's weird because it will instantly be converted to serotonin which then is either taken up into vesicles or degraded by MAO-A. So there should be no effects besides storage replenishment but there absolutely are, 5-htp helped me with withdrawing from venlafaxine. Read about some side effects when 5-htp is combined with carbidopa, if I remember it correctly it was about a skin rash or something alike.

I just copped some Syndopa (Levodopa + Carbidopa) 110 and 5mg Selegiline. I'm going to do some careful self-experimentation combining them.

Just using the Selegiline alone is quite powerful, it's clear to me if I'm not careful I could really be risking my health. I drank an energy drink after a 10mg once and had horrible overstimulation. I think I will start quite low with both drugs and I'm going to make sure not to mix other substances in the mix. I'm hoping this will help me completely kick opioid and stimulant use, I use both for motivation enhancement and I want a healthier, less-addictive alternative. Would love if anyone has any tips, haven't seen a ton about this combo as a Nootropic

 

[brokedownpalace10]

I just copped some Syndopa (Levodopa + Carbidopa) 110 and 5mg Selegiline. I'm going to do some careful self-experimentation combining them.

Just using the Selegiline alone is quite powerful, it's clear to me if I'm not careful I could really be risking my health. I drank an energy drink after a 10mg once and had horrible overstimulation. I think I will start quite low with both drugs and I'm going to make sure not to mix other substances in the mix. I'm hoping this will help me completely kick opioid and stimulant use, I use both for motivation enhancement and I want a healthier, less-addictive alternative. Would love if anyone has any tips, haven't seen a ton about this combo as a Nootropic

L-Dopa as I remember was very euphoric in a manic way. Kinda saw that I could get cra-cra (like to the point of endangering employment) if I did it for too long or too much. Only did a run of it once (maybe twice? don't remember, anyway, not a lot) My memory is sketchy but I seem to remember that you couldn't take a whole tab all at once right away of you got nausea. Look that up, it even tells you to start with small doses and work up when used for Parkinsons.
I used selegiline here and there over the years and found it to be a nice, mild, long lasting stimulant at 1-3mg. Did 5mg here and there but never over that. That dose was a great, long, not overly pushy stimulant good for moving, concerts, etc. I was careful with caffeine with it and definitely never combined it with anything stronger. It lasts over 24 hours really so you can do a couple mg a day for days in a row and get a long lasting pleasant stimulation build up. Better have something for sleep. I used melatonin.

I used both when I was into smart drugs and not really doing anything else but pot... AI overview
L-DOPA, while primarily used to treat Parkinson's disease, is also investigated for its potential cognitive-enhancing effects, but the results are mixed. While some studies suggest it can improve certain cognitive functions, particularly those related to dopamine, others indicate potential detrimental effects, including impaired cognitive performance and side effects like psychosis and addiction

 

[Allylbenzene]

I'm hoping this will help me completely kick opioid and stimulant use, I use both for motivation enhancement and I want a healthier, less-addictive alternative.

Have you looked into Agmatine? It's used for preventing tolerance build-up, reducing withdrawals and general drug potentiation. It seems to work best predosed seperately from the opioid/stimulant/benzo etc. You might also find Theanine useful too, pro-GABA, anti-stress.

Here are 3 healthier & more sustainable alternatives: theacrine and hordenine (NRI, D2 agonist, reversible MAO-B inhibitor)
Theres also the metabolic booster caffeine which is unlike other stimulants.

Coffee is a potent metabolic stimulator and must be viewed as such. The caffeine in coffee is powerful and can act like thyroid to increase your metabolic rate and the oxidation of sugar, making it a health-protective food.

https://www.functionalps.com/blog/2...-right-tips-to-help-avoid-coffee-intolerance/

 

[KurtAurelius]

Tricky business fooling around with l-dopa, can be toxic in a variety of ways, oxidative stress, toxic dopamine metabolites (like DOPAL), excess homocysteine, etc. And without using a DDCI like carbidopa to inhibit DOPA decarboxylase you might start to experience some peripheral side-effects

I have heard that a DDCI isn't necessary when taking mucana pruriens derived l-dopa, but i'm not sure if that is true or how that even makes sense, unless its simply a function of lower total exposure to l-dopa when consuming mucana pruriens relative to pharmaceutical preparations of l-dopa (ie, the quantity of l-dopa in mucana pruriens is comparatively low).

I actually did fool around with mucana pruriens extract to see if I could increase the effect of dextroamphetamine, but it didn't seem to work that well and I didn't want to push the dose out of caution. I think l-tyrosine is a much safer way of going about it.

Very well put.

We don’t always understand intricacies like these as we think first, and it seems there’s always an additional effect down the line..

I’d want to raise dopamine as indirectly as possible and exhaust these first before jumping to Levo Dopa.

I could be fearmongering, but I recall high quality posts from Reddit (of all places) with cited studies, explaining in depth the very issues than can come with messing around with the Dopamine system with Agonists, Levo Dopa, and even Mucuna Pruniens and plenty of anecdotes to caution those thinking to try similar.

 

[4DQSAR]

While the application of laevodopa was a huge breaktrhough in medicine thanks to the work of Professer Oliver Sacks and his team, it's not to be taken lightly. I used to live right next to a guy who was struck down by Parkinson's disease only months after retirement. I asked how it was and he mentioned that the hallucinations and short duration of action make his life very difficult.

I'm disabled so we would walk (very slowly) to the corner-shop and back, so if one of us took a turn for the worse, the other could summon aid,

A really sad sight because he's a lovely bloke. Now his wife was a nightmare but he made it clear that her opinions were her own and not his,

So don't expect much fun. It's not a side-effect - laevodopa is known for having a theraputic window that gets smaller and smaller. So what you don't want is to narrow that window in case you NEED the stuff (or it's prodrugs) later in life,

 

[sludgekatana]

L-Dopa as I remember was very euphoric in a manic way. Kinda saw that I could get cra-cra (like to the point of endangering employment) if I did it for too long or too much. Only did a run of it once (maybe twice? don't remember, anyway, not a lot) My memory is sketchy but I seem to remember that you couldn't take a whole tab all at once right away of you got nausea. Look that up, it even tells you to start with small doses and work up when used for Parkinsons.
I used selegiline here and there over the years and found it to be a nice, mild, long lasting stimulant at 1-3mg. Did 5mg here and there but never over that. That dose was a great, long, not overly pushy stimulant good for moving, concerts, etc. I was careful with caffeine with it and definitely never combined it with anything stronger. It lasts over 24 hours really so you can do a couple mg a day for days in a row and get a long lasting pleasant stimulation build up. Better have something for sleep. I used melatonin.

I used both when I was into smart drugs and not really doing anything else but pot... AI overview
L-DOPA, while primarily used to treat Parkinson's disease, is also investigated for its potential cognitive-enhancing effects, but the results are mixed. While some studies suggest it can improve certain cognitive functions, particularly those related to dopamine, others indicate potential detrimental effects, including impaired cognitive performance and side effects like psychosis and addiction

Yeah your experience sounds similar to others. Definitely not what I'm looking for. I experimented with 2.5mg Selegiline + 50mg Syndopa, but all I felt was the Selegiline. The reason I'm even trying this is because I saw this article: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1600-0404.1991.tb05020.x

Honestly I was mostly just curious. Selegiline is already pretty useful on it's own, and what KurtAurelius said about raising dopamine indirectly makes a lot of intuitive sense to me. What I'm trying to do is find alternatives to classic stimulants like amphetamine. If If I take too little I'm so distracted by not feeling the mental push that it becomes useless, and too much and I have zero control over what I end up spending my time doing. This is definitely because of my abuse of those drugs, now it's basically impossible for me to use them without binging. I'm just trying to find a mild but reliable motivation enhancing substance. Selegiline is the best I've found, but it does make me feel pretty anxious and tense at the start. Low doses leave only the anxiety and tension for me. It's a bit of a scary drug though because of it being an irreversible MAOI. Also I've used it for recovery from a stimulant binge (because I also read it's neuroprotective) and it works fairly well, but I still have to manage the excess stimulation. I wonder if combining it with Guanfacine could be effective?

Anyways, I might experiment with Syndopa again but really only out curiosity.

 

[4DQSAR]

We discussed Selegiline AND it's active metabolite, desmethylselegiline. I noted that even when it was introduced, ONLY the chiral product was ever marketed. Now that is NOT common. The processing of 'evergreening' a medicine is first to sell the raecemate, then the chiral products. I guess the example you may know of is methylphenidate (Ritalin) which has four stereoisomers. Ritalin was partly replaced by the trans-pair and named (Concerta) and itself was refined to just one one stereoisomer and named 'Focalin'.

Sorry for the OT but I feel it important to note that they did not do this with selegeline. That suggests a narrow theraputic index, After all, it's going to cost more to do so.

I noted that while selegeline appears to use the same VMAT-2 transport as methylphenidate, the active metabolite, desmethylselegeline is transported by the same VMAT-2 transport as amphetmaine.

I would treat it with extreme caution as it's the sort of medication that is subject to 'suvivorship-bias' i.e. even if someone doesn't die, they do not post about the side-effects, But in this case it really could be the case that (ab)user who suffers the worst outcome cannot post a warning.

Never forget, that surviving a dangerous drug combination is not proof of safety as one only needs one negative outcome and then no more reports.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Yeah your experience sounds similar to others. Definitely not what I'm looking for. I experimented with 2.5mg Selegiline + 50mg Syndopa, but all I felt was the Selegiline. The reason I'm even trying this is because I saw this article: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1600-0404.1991.tb05020.x

Honestly I was mostly just curious. Selegiline is already pretty useful on it's own, and what KurtAurelius said about raising dopamine indirectly makes a lot of intuitive sense to me. What I'm trying to do is find alternatives to classic stimulants like amphetamine. If If I take too little I'm so distracted by not feeling the mental push that it becomes useless, and too much and I have zero control over what I end up spending my time doing. This is definitely because of my abuse of those drugs, now it's basically impossible for me to use them without binging. I'm just trying to find a mild but reliable motivation enhancing substance. Selegiline is the best I've found, but it does make me feel pretty anxious and tense at the start. Low doses leave only the anxiety and tension for me. It's a bit of a scary drug though because of it being an irreversible MAOI. Also I've used it for recovery from a stimulant binge (because I also read it's neuroprotective) and it works fairly well, but I still have to manage the excess stimulation. I wonder if combining it with Guanfacine could be effective?

Anyways, I might experiment with Syndopa again but really only out curiosity.

I've actually done a fair amount of selegiline over the years. However, it's rare that I've done even as much as 5mg. I had a bottle of liquid from some smart drug provider which was 1mg per drop. I've also had the 5mg pills. The dropper bottle was supposed to have a higher bioavailability (citrate? I don't remember) and it did seem to be a little more potent.

Selegiline is metabolised to l-amphetamine and l-methamphetamine. I used to liken it to nibbling on a mini white all day. It's potentiated pretty much by phenylalanine, but feels more "ragged" when doing that.

1-2mg daily as a cognitive enhancer (with phenylalanine) had me feeling washed out and tired after a week or three. Prolly not restful sleep.

After that, not daily use, taking 1mg at a time periodically throughout a day would keep me up and alert. I knew I'd be wide awake into the night if I got up to 3-4 mg, but without really "speeding". Just being alert and awake. Lasts quite a while.

I'm an old deadhead as you can tell by my handle. Some shows I'd party down and some shows I remained sober or nearly so. It depended on my time of life and on who I went to the show with. I've been to a few shows on Selegiline, either by itself or with maybe a half a joint. I'd get there early, get right up front at big outdoor shows, make a commando thing out of it. Remember the show quite well. Some good memories, but nothing like a hit of acid (1) as soon as settled in and no pot till after drums/space.

But, I digress.

 

[Allylbenzene]

I'm hoping this will help me completely kick opioid and stimulant use, I use both for motivation enhancement and I want a healthier, less-addictive alternative.

What is your plan for doing this? Are you looking for straight alternatives or things that reduce dependence, tolerance and withdrawal symptoms? Or both.

This thread mentions 5+ substances for WD support and opioid alternatives.
If you're looking for healther less-addictive stimulants, you've got several OTC options: theacrine, hordenine and coffee (actually a mitochondrial stimulant).

 

[4DQSAR]

I've actually done a fair amount of selegiline over the years.

Yeah - the problem is that it's built into us all to think that the more times we are fine, that means each time is less or a risk. Sadly that isn't true. I know this because I've watched someone rail coke all day and at 11.41PM on NYE in Amsterdam, they railed another line and went over. We did what we could but even with three of us trained to deal with such things, we knew we had a 10% chance at best,

I'm not virtue signalling, I'm just saying our sub-conscious tricks us in a bad way.